Well, from where I am standing Liese, this sounds a lot more like maternal rage than narcissistic rage. It doesn't seem to have much to do with YOU or your past at all and more about thinking your daughter may have been treated unfairly. Parents get bent out of shape about this kind of thing ALL THE TIME and I think you handled it as well as can be expected.

Sorry about your daughter missing the deadline though. What a pain...

hi liese,
are you sure its not the injustice that bothers you? The only time i'm ever angry and tell it is if its on someone else's behalf that cant/wont assert themselves its not like she hadn't done the work so it IS unfair that because she was ill it was late and wont be accepted.
I wouldn't call it narcissistic i would call it trying your best for your daughter we all need mothers like that

((((AG))))(((BLT))))((((SMALLFRY))))

Thanks for the reassurance that it's not narcisstic rage but then what IS narcisstic rage? I don't have a clear idea as to what it is.

Liese

I'm not an expert on this but I'm pretty sure narcissistic rage is what happens to someone with NPD when someone threatens their overinflated false sense of how wonderful they are.

Liese -

I've seen you talk about your daughter before, and being upset when she doesn't get things, etc. I do think some of it is misplaced childhood stuff, like AG was saying. I also thinks it's the mama bear in you, it's disappointing for parents when their kids can't get what they want and deserve. So maybe a little of that was in there - I don't' think it's narcissistic I think it's really normal to be angry - I'd feel angry too, but you didn't take it out on anyone and you aren't blaming anyone else but crappy circumstance and I don't think you're saying your daughter is entitled to hand in her stuff late but accepting that she can't get in of course is going to bring up an intense feeling. Can she apply next year? I hope so. I'm not sure what narcissistic rage is but I don't see anything 'wrong' with your reaction.

quote:

mama bear

That was my first thought, too.

Hey there Liese, I also agree with the others that this doesn’t at all sound like narcissistic rage, but that it’s stemming from the ‘mama bear’ role that BLT, Cat and Ninn suggest. You’re furious on another’s behalf and that doesn’t fit the criteria for NR (though just to be provocative I could say that as it’s on your own daughter’s behalf that you felt that surge of rage, that could be argued as ‘self interest’ and therefore cross into the narcissistic arena – but I’m only saying that to make the point that anger/rage/narcissistic rage all cross over – NR is not some discrete entity that only card carrying narcissists experience.)

It sounds to me like maybe the intensity of what you felt in that moment seemed totally out of proportion to you and that scared you enough into thinking it was some kind of aberrant anger indicating something ‘wrong’ with you. Not so! But understandable. I’ve had the occasional flashes of really really intense fury and hatred which shock the hell out of me, but which I also recognize as being little lava spurts of a volcano of accumulated controlled anger over many years. So there may well be underground connections that this instance tapped into and resulted in your flash of fury. Just a thought.

I’m really sorry your daughter missed out though, and I hope that neither you nor she end up blaming yourselves for having forgotten the deadline.

Wanted to add that the whole issue of narcissistic rage is something that’s surfaced for me recently and your thread is very timely, I’m thinking of posting a separate thread about it so won’t go on about it here .

LL

i think its important to identify why you want to know if its narcissistic rage.
ive been told i have narcissistic rage. that does not make someone a narcissist, fyi.

nar rage comes from a narcissistic vulnerability being exposed, a person feels helpless and becomes enraged at the helplessness as a way to assert themselves.

the rage is not the narcissism the narcissism is the wound that was opened by the thing that happened.

thats how i understand it. the vulnerability is the narcissism not the rage.

contrary to what everyone is telling you i DO believe this is narcissistic rage. why should you have special treatment? you missed the deadline. narcissism often shows itself when people think they should have different rules apply to them.

sorry if im coming across as harsh. thats not my intention. but its important to note that even if it IS narcissistic rage, who cares? you were pissed off probably bec. you felt your kid was being treated unfairly and that the person was being unreasonable when you asked for a break.
thats not that weird. its important to figure out, as i said, why you want to know what this rage is and why you want to know if its narcissitic.

do you think there is something wrong with you for how you reacted? do you think there is something wrong with you for allowing yourself to be in this situation?

im just guessing here, this is how i would feel so thats why i throw these ideas out.

hope you get to the bottom of what bothered you about this.

quote:

i think its important to identify why you want to know if its narcissistic rage

Liese, I was actually wondering this, too. Why do you want to know?

<3

(((DAROCK)))(((NINN))))

Thanks for your replies. DaRock, I tend to agree with you that it is narcissism but I'm not so sure that I was angry that my daughter didn't get special treatment as opposed to what the denial, in my mind, meant for my daughter. Does that make sense? I mean in terms of how she will come to see herself and how others will perceive her. The reality is, I know she qualified for the honor society and just isn't in it this year (and yes she can apply again next year) because she didn't get the paperwork in on time. And so, my rage was coming from the place of worrying about what other people will think when we are not at the ceremony, how they will view her and how they will view me as a mother.

This is all ugly stuff to admit but it's the truth. However, don't you think that each and every one of the parents whose children did get in are themselves getting a sense of worth and esteem for both themselves and their children? And so what would be so different about me wanting it as well?

In addition to all that, I've been feeling really bad for my daughter because she's 12 and in 7th grade and didn't make the basketball team, then didn't get chosen to be a manager for the basketball team, didn't make the softball team and found out the same day as the honor society situation went down when she returned to school after being sick.

I DID very much feel a helplessness but it was in terms of not being able to help her, to build her self-esteem and a frustration that nothing seems to be going her way.

quote:

enraged at the helplessness as a way to assert themselves.

Which is why I thought this quote was appropriate here.

I think I'm confused because it seems like ALL anger comes from not getting our emotional needs met, or actually any need, I suppose. It could be a physical need or a spiritual need or any other type of need. And so what would distinguish narcisstic rage from any other type of rage? Or is it that the more "balanced" person wouldn't go directly to rage? They might feel annoyance or irritation or anger but then be able to cope better with it?

------------------------------------------------

My childhood was my childhood and then I grew up and learned that some people get certain things in childhood because of certain qualities they have. And that if you're a man, for instance, certain benefits might be accorded to you based on that alone. Or if you're tall. Or if you're blonde. I mean, you all know what I mean in terms of the qualities our society values and the way we look up to other people who have what we want, and that children are especially prone to doing that.

And I felt angry about that, that some people feel good about themselves because they got positive reinforcement for possessing traits that they were born with, that they didn't work to develop, for instance, like maybe hair color or height or body type. And simply because they got positive reinforcement, they feel better about themselves, are more confident.

Of course you do have people who do work hard and garner self-esteem from setting goals and achieving them.

And, so part of my anger was directed at the unfairness of it all, the unfairness of it that some people might get that positive reinforcement but my daughter seems to be really struggling in that department now. I am angry that life is easier for some people.

I guess I'm just a sour puss. A jealous, envious, angry sour puss.

However, on the other hand, I would never want to be someone for whom everything came easy and who was judgmental and felt superior to others. So, maybe I got the life that I was meant to have.

So, I don't know what I'm saying except I still don't understand narcisstic rage. This one is a tough one for me.

Oh, and as for why I want to know? Probably because I want to diagnose myself with something that I would consider to be one of the most pejorative diagnoses as "proof" of what a bad and rotten person I really am, and therefore, deserving of all the bad treatment that I've gotten.

I know, it's all so sick and twisted.

((AG))))(((Blt))))((((cat))))((((LL)))$

Didn't intentionally not reply Ti you guys. I am on the road and reading. Things from my phone and now my computer crashed so I am typing from my phone. -- which I hate doing. It's so annoying. Anyway will reply later when I hopefully get my computer running.

Thanks for responding. I really appreciate it

Xoxox

Liese

((((AG))))

Thanks for the link. I just found that guy and find his thoughts very interesting.

(((((BLT)))) Yes, I've read that to, about an overinflated sense of self-worth. I have an underinflated one and think my daughter does to and the anger is masking a helplessness in terms of how to help her build self-esteem NOT built on accomplishments? I don't know. It's all very sketchy for me.

(((((CAT)))) - thanks for being supportive. Yes, I agree with you that it wasn't coming from a sense of entitlement but rather from recognizing a loss of esteem from others for myself and my daughter. I don't know if that would actually be narcisstic because it's not that it's offending that grandiose sense of self. But it's coming more from a sense of low self-esteem and wanting to build her up (and me, if I'm honest) and feeling helpless doing so.

((((LL))))

"Wanted to add that the whole issue of narcissistic rage is something that’s surfaced for me recently and your thread is very timely, I’m thinking of posting a separate thread about it so won’t go on about it here"

Please explore here or in a new thread. Very interested in exploring this with you. How does one go about feeling good about oneself if one doesn't have anything valuable to contribute to society? And is anger an appropriate response when this type of situation occurs, whe really many people are born all the time and are either told or come to believe that they don't have anything to contribute and/or that society doesn't value them, which could be all fine and good except for the huge amount of emotional pain involved in all that? Sorry for the runon.

xoxoxoxoxo

Liese

g

quote:

There is no natural justice in this world Liese, and we have every right to feel angry about each and every example of it.

Muff, you are so wise.