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Ok, so I am back from my very last wrap up session with The Terminator. I have had 1 week of absolute hell.

I had seen her yesterday and we eye contacted and said hello - so that helped.

I walked in. I said to her "Don't talk". We sat. I took 30 seconds to do my usual scan of her room - I had previously emailed her and told her of the things I would look at during sessions - the door, handle, files, the chair and her jacket, the ghastly blue picture on the wall, her bracelet, earrings, her shoes, the glass of water, the whiteboard, the 4 corners of the whiteboard, the stain on the ceiling and then out the window. I used to do this in any order and would fixate on things when the sessions got tough. It became a funny thing for me.

Then I said to her "I have something to read to you".

I couldn't get through the first sentence without choking. I stopped at every sentence to look at her, she was struggling. I read out all my beautiful words to her from the depth of my heart. Some of my stuff was funny and she laughed with me, I paused when I had to, I choked up some more, I had to wipe my tears. Each time I looked at her to see that she was with me. I gave her the letter.

She thanked me and then told me things that she enjoyed. She said some lovely things - I can't remember them all.

We spoke about my next move and I spoke about my old T who is taking me back. We then spent a lot of time talking through the things we had done, I wrote things down that she thought I needed to discuss first with new T. I asked about my records and the recent emails as I said some very new and raw stuff about myself to try and "win" her back. She said that she has to keep them for 7 years but they are archived and secured. I didn't like that. She is more than happy to talk to new T and do a handover and is available at any time in the future for new T.

She told me that she always enjoyed me and loved my sense of humour and enjoyed when I challenged her. We both agreed and said it wouldn't have worked for much longer - she was able to tell me how hard it had been for her to provide care for me when the issue of our common friend was stopping me from revealing everything to her. I told her I absolutely and genuinely understood.

I asked her if she underestimated the effect that the termination would have on me - she said she didn't under or over estimate - she just knew it would be very difficult for me.

I said to her that when I first went to her all I knew was that I wanted to die and inside my head was a black hole. I said I learnt so much from her about myself - to the extent that when I spoke to new T I was able to say - my issues are: early attachment disorder, neglect, abuse and some trauma with rejection, abandonment and trust issues and Su Ideation.

She also added that I needed most help at the moment with emotion regulation...

The session was coming to an end, I noticed her glance at the clock and because it was my final session I could be as cheeky as I wanted to be - and especially as she had just told me that she enjoyed that - I said to her "I just caught you looking at the clock, how much more pain have I got left". She laughed (she laughed and smiled heaps today) and said "you have 20 minutes of pain left". I said that they need to have another clock on the wall so I could see it so I knew when the torture sessions were ending. She laughed some more.

Do I need to say that I choked up and wiped away tears many, many times? No I didn't think I need to tell you guys that.

I asked her "So tell me, when I read out my story to you - did you feel some tears?" She said "I felt more than a few tears".

When it finished we stood, I walked over to her and said "I am going to hug you". She put her arms out and we hugged and she didn't let go. It was a lovely, meaningful moment. I whispered to her through my tears "Thankyou". I can't remember what she said.

I left and I didn't look back at her.

I went down to my car and cried. And I keep crying all the time. It just keeps hitting me. I understand all the reasons for all this, the rational part of my head agrees with it, I have my new T who I trust, but I am so very, very sad. I can't even see the screen right now for tears. They are rolling down my face.

I just don't know what to do with all the tears and sadness. I am so incredibly sad.
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((((((((((((SomeDays))))))))))))

I second DF's statement that it was VERY brave of you to go to this session. I am so, so sorry for the great sadness in leaving your T. It is no wonder for it...you've had practically NO time to process this beforehand...and yet, you handled yourself with astounding grace in that last session. I'm glad you were able to say everything you wanted to say, and glad that your T let you see her emotions about it, too. When is your next session with the other T? I hope it's soon, so she can be there with you to help you with the deep sadness you are feeling.

Go gently with yourself -

Hug,
SG
Hello SD
I have just logged in and seen your incredibly moving post. It sounds like you were able to get out what you needed to say to Terminator so that's a good thing even though you probably don't feel it is right now. You were incredibly courageous to do this last session given how difficult if must have been. I hope that other T is there for you very soon and you can begin to work through this, please take care you
Thanks DF, SG and JMB.

I followed it up with an email. I asked her if she had any questions to ask ME. She said no. I said 'didn't you want to know about what happened x,y,z' she said No - that she was going to leave it like it was and I could explore it with new T.

I thought about it and thought stuff it - I WANT to tell her what she had missed. And also - this particular secret - had caused so much pain for me.
Last edited by sd
Thanks LG. I tried to do some normal stuff this weekend - as opposed to last weekend when I was nearly comatose....

I had to get my act together as I had to socialise with some people. I did ok, but man I had a downer today.

I was triggered when I heard my kids singing a song together. I sat there and thought that 99% of mums out there would listen to this amazing thing and think her children were the most wonderful thing in the world - they would have sat, listened, love it and laughed with their kids - and felt 'something'.

I felt sadness because I didn't feel anything. I went outside and cried.

It is still the emotional turmoil of the termination. I don't see my old T's face in my mind, or hear her talking to me in my head - instead I can sense her or it will be an impression or I will smell something, or someone will say a word that she used to say Or it will hit me that I won't see her again in that room. And then I cry. Sometimes I am doing an everyday task and I am not aware that I am thinking - and I will cry.

Then I realise that I have to go through all this shit AGAIN with someone new. I have just DONE talking about all my stuff that took forever for me to talk about and now I have to do it again. I don't want to. I will rush through it - when in fact that slow unravelling processing and the pain is what made all the discovery the last time.

I just don't know where to start. I feel my soul has been terribly wounded.

And my mother hugged me the other day because she knows about all this drama and she hugged me and cried and say "you will be ok". and I said to her I know. I was angry that she hugged me, angry that she cried, angry that she knows about it and just angry and grossed out.

It set me off on such a freaking bad mood - i was so angry that she gets to care. I didn't even want her to know about any of this. I do not have an attachment with her. Dah. That is why I am in this mess.
quote:
Originally posted by SomeDays:
...And my mother hugged me the other day because she knows about all this drama and she hugged me and cried and say "you will be ok". and I said to her I know. I was angry that she hugged me, angry that she cried, angry that she knows about it and just angry and grossed out.

It set me off on such a freaking bad mood - i was so angry that she gets to care. I didn't even want her to know about any of this. I do not have an attachment with her. Dah. That is why I am in this mess.


(((SD)))

I've been following your story and am relieved to know that you found a bridge in your new (old) T to help get you to the other side.

Wanted to weigh in on the mother issues. I'm in the throes of this as well and your description "angry and grossed out" rang true to my experience. It is a very powerful dynamic that can paralyze many aspects of growth. I'm stuck in it right now, isolating to an extreme degree, even from my T. So, I feel your pain in this regard. Very much so.

I hope Monday's session with new (old)T brings you a measure of peace for the day.
Thanks so much Hemlock for your input - I really needed to hear that. I wrote that on the forum and since then I have been thinking about it. I didn't tell my new T this today as I was still processing. Knowing that someone else understands as you do might give me the courage to bring it up.

It was definitely a feeling of being grossed out, annoyance and other feelings like that. I wanted to tell her to get lost and words to that effect. I do not want a relationship with her and I don't want to be closer to her at all.

So I just get home and she rings me to ask how it went. AS IF I would tell her anything. Now every time I have to go - i have to let her know so she can babysit for me. That is annoying the crap out of me also.

To my mother: Let me go off and have my own mental breakdown in my own terms when I want and in PRIVATE - stop being intrusive all my life.

Hemlock - is this similar to what you feel also?
Hi SomeDays,

Along with Hemlock, the being angry and grossed out at mom knowing details about my therapy rang some VERY loud bells for me, too. Actually, those are the PERFECT two words to describe the reaction I have to ANY thought of being "close" to my mom. Like you, I also do not have (and never remember having) an attachment to my mom. Well, at least not a positive one. Those angry, grossed-out feelings were the ones I felt that I needed to get to in the therapy, thinking that working through them might lead to healing in other areas. I never succeeded in connecting with that feeling for very long, though. But knowing how it feels, I'm sure you understand why I wouldn't want to. I agree with Hemlock, that dynamic is very paralyzing. I don't know if I'll ever be able to work through it.

And I also feel your pain at having to ask mom to watch the kids so you can go to sessions. I have had to do that too, during the summer. I would feel so guilty, asking her to watch my kids so I could go talk, at least some of the time, about the pain of growing up with her (by the way, she's completely different with my kids...she's their favorite person). Fortunately though she doesn't ask a lot of questions, and those she asks, I'm VERY vague about and change the subject immediately. I think the reason she doesn't ask is because she's afraid it has something to do with her. Whatever the reason, though, I'm glad she doesn't.

I think my mom has tried to become enmeshed with me in several ways over the years, but I'm REALLY "good" at blocking her attempts indirectly. At the height of her last addiction binge, I finally told her very directly to back off...and ever since then, she's more or less kept her distance, and even seems to have turned a corner herself and appears to be doing much better. But I can't imagine EVER being close to her. There is just no foundation to build on. It's a hollow shell of a relationship.

Sorry to keep going on about myself here...I guess I just wanted to let you know that I relate too.

Hug,
SG
OMG, WOW.

Strummer - do not apologise for "going on" about it. Your comments have just made me feel normal than I have felt in a very long time. Every word you wrote is how I feel. Thank you so much. Well, I am sorry for you to also have to feel that way - but you know what I mean, thankyou for writing.

My mum too - is different with my kids. She has forgotten all the horrible things she did. That is all I remember - and then I have to have months of therapy to get a memory back.

My mum asked me what I talk about with T and was it about my childhood, so I very confidently and assertively LIED - to get her off my back. I don't want to have to take on HER guilt as well as all my stuff.

I am trying to arrange some respite care for me so I can get my boy cared for so I don't have to rely on her so much. I just found out that a very local government association provides free support and counselling to carer's like me and they are an email or a phone call away. The person who rang me sounded lovely.

Man all this shit is so hard.
(((Group hug for those of us with mom issues.))) Smiler

Grossed out, skin crawls, hairs on the back of my neck stand up, nails on a chalkboard, want to move to a cave in Alaska with no way for family to contact me, and of course, I simultaneously want to scream at her like I'm possessed by a dementor, lol.

These are awful feelings because they are coupled, for me, with tremendous shame and guilt (<---or maybe those two are the same feeling).

Within the past month I've become more aware of the truth that my mother was complicit through avoidance in some pretty regrettable happenings in my family. All these years I've protected the illusion. Now I'm faced with unpleasant reality. Yet my mother UNBELIEVABLY SO gets to keep living in her denial.

And my bad feelings are doubled-down by her *interest* in my therapy. Wanting to know details and then taking great pains to remind me of all the good times we had as a family...none of which my sister nor I remember, lol. I'm to the point that I'm about to unravel in an ugly way. So, I've just stopped answering the phone. When I do speak with her out of guilt, I ask about the happenings in her world and cut her off when she starts poking around in mine. And then there's the guilt, again.

Like SG's mom, I now see how she has attempted to intertwine her life with mine over all these years and I enabled it. Now that I'm pulling away she's clinging even more. Did I mention how much guilt I have over all of this? lol

This dynamic is smothering me -- the feelings have overtaken so much of my life when I was struggling already. I'm stuck. Temporarily separated from my husband and in a new city in a hotel eleven hours away just to get away from it all. Of course, this brings to mind the adage we're all familiar with...wherever I go, there I am. Isolating doesn't change anything but I was in a really bad spot and running just felt good, frankly. It's my coping mechanism.

Last night, I called my T for the first time EVER in our relationship but couldn't talk about this because I just don't know what he's supposed to do about it.

It's all a horrible muddle. Frowner

Like SG, I don't mean to make it about me but thought it would help you to know that "mother issues" are significant, real, painful, and very difficult to deal with -- you are definitely not alone.
I hesitate to post on this divergent mom topic, but want to say I can relate...so much.

Most of the abuse that I remember well was from my mom and it was thanks to her that I grew up in an incredibly chaotic, threatening environment. In my adulthood, and especially lately, she has tried to initiate time with me, develop a more real relationship, become a grandmother to my daughter, etc. She does it the same way she did things as a kid, as a sort of invasion. Luckily for me, she is pretty flakey unless she actually needs something from me. I am actually more comfortable with her approaching on those terms, needing me to do something for her, because it feels safe. I have the power. I refused to need anything from her (in terms of emotional care, support, etc.) at a very young age. I too think I was never attached to her at all. Obviously, living in her house, I was physically dependent upon her as a child for food, housing, access to education, medical care, etc. Those sort of things were always under threat to elicit obedience and make me accept her invasion. So, as soon as I was legally and physically capable of becoming independent (mid-way through my senior year of high school, at 18, when I was kicked out), I refused to rely on her at all. Anyway, that's the background.

Fast forward to 28 (almost three years ago), giving birth to my daughter. We didn't tell anyone until we were almost ready to push. My mom defied our insistence that no one come. She invaded the room. I didn't stand up to it. She bossed around the doctor (if we had any sort of relationship, I would have seen it as her being protective from a bad doctor, but it made me so angry). She patted my head while I pushed. She even told the nurses, "She hates that I'm doing this," but kept doing it. I was disgusted by the physical contact. Then, because H didn't care whether he did it or not, he volunteered to let her cut the cord. I felt like that special moment had been robbed. I didn't want HER in it. It felt so violating. And I felt so guilty, because this was something she did for me, brought me into this world, yet I had no inclination to let her be a part of me doing it.

Anyway, she keeps trying to be a part of our lives and I teeter totter between feeling like I want to be the sort of person that gives her a chance to be someone different than who she when I was growing up and being disgusted by the idea of having any sort of relationship. None of us "need" her in any way, so other than emotional abuse that I need to learn to have boundaries about, she is no threat to us. She recognizes how much I "carried" the family and has recently said specifically that she knows how much burden I have taken on for her and my younger siblings, that I have always been a rock. So, then I think that there's a chance my allowing grace there to redeem things. But, I can't stop feeling so distressed and disturbed when she is "nice." It's hard, because I can only seem to waffle between recovering my dissociated rage at her past behavior and regressing to completely excusing it as inevitable. We live only 15 minutes away from one another, so if she keeps pursuing a relationship, I am going to have to figure this out...
Yaku, so many significant assaults on your boundaries. How hard it is! Frowner and Mad

Have you addressed the mom stuff specifically with your T? If so, has it helped at all?

I'm still at the point in therapy that I don't want to burden my T with *problems.* Seriously, I have very little difficulty telling him the details of whatever but when it comes to speaking with him about specific PROBLEMS (vice just recounting stories), I don't want to be a pain in the ass or hand him something that I can't figure out on my own or whatever.

I seriously need a "Therapy For Dummies & Avoidants" manual.

*Oh SD I've totally hijacked your thread. Clearly, it's hit a big nerve. Thank you for bringing it up in your post and allowing us to share our stuff too.* Smiler
Sorry for participating in the hijacking as well.

hemlock - Well, I tell T when things come up, but I can't help just being like ::shrug:: "whatever, that's how it is" about it when I talk to him. I have a serious problem with letting things mean anything in front of anyone. Anyway, T knows that most of the bad stuff I'm aware of is mom stuff, so he does bring it up or asks questions when he thinks there is a connection to her. But, I mostly just feel, "Ugh, why would I want to talk about THAT?"

Edit: Ugh, now end of page one is going to be as much of a problem as page 2. I hope my stuff doesn't strike too much of a chord with a lot of people! Or, if it does, in a good way, not a miserable one...
quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
...But, I mostly just feel, "Ugh, why would I want to talk about THAT?"


OMG this made me laugh out loud! Me too, me too, me too.

quote:
...I hope my stuff doesn't strike too much of a chord with a lot of people! Or, if it does, in a good way, not a miserable one...


It's bad in a really good way. Big Grin It helps so much to read everybody's experiences...puts some things into perspective and helps me to think about my own muck and what I might actually feel about it.

Seriously, thank you so much.

SD, how are things? Did you see T today?
SomeDays, it seems as though you've really struck a chord with several of us regarding how we feel about our mothers. It's a good discussion, and I want to post about it again in response to Yaku, but I really don't want to take over your thread with it. I will start another thread just for that topic.

And I would also like to hear how your next session with your new/oldT goes, if/when you are ready to share. Big Grin

Hug,
SG
You guys totally crack me up in the best laughing way. I love it that you "took over the thread". I didn't realise that I felt so much angst with the mother thing and I just threw it in there the other day. I love that you created a new thread - this is too big too get lost - it needed its own.



My session with T yesterday - went ok, but it felt weird and clunky. I am annoyed that i have to start over again. This T is more direct, more confident, constantly challenges my thinking (but sometimes I just want to have a whinge).

She totally got serious about my dissociation / depersonalisation /derealisation - whichever one I do or all of them that I do. She says it doesn't really matter how we define it - I zone out and don't feel my body and can shut off all my senses - to escape, avoid, protect myself and she said we have to start there. Whereas the other T was very vague on it and made me feel like it wasn't a big deal. Once I had this out of body experience and I forced myself to stay with it - even though I couldn't feel anything - I just felt like my head was suspended above the ground - afterward I wrote about it. I gave it to youngT and she never referred to it.

This T - thinks it needs to be addressed or else I am just going to keep zoning out.

So - I guess that is a place to start.

Anyway after the session - I felt neutral. Some positives, some negatives. I think I am just treading water and sussing out the situation.

9 weeks ago - I was dying to have 2 sessions per week as I wasn't coping. It took me 4 weeks to get the courage to email T and ask her. I stressed and stressed about it. Yesterday when we were booking Tuesday appointments up into the future - I said - what have you got this Thursday. T didn't bat an eyelid and gave me an appt. I emailed her last night and told her how proud of myself I was to ask for it as the last time I didn't value myself enough to get the courage to ask.

I am treading water - that is what I am doing.

Now, I am going to go over and find that Mother Thread. Ewwww, time for me to be icked out.
Hi SomeDays,

Oh I'm really glad you were cool with moving the Mother Thread (it just sounds ominous, doesn't it? Big Grin ). Just read your post over there, but wanted to respond to this one first.

I thought it was really interesting that youngT didn't attach much significance to your zoning out, but that this T does. The T I just ended with would have paid attention to it, too. Many, many times when I went silent in therapy, she would ask where I was going, or else make the comment that she wondered where I went...I think she thought I was dissociating...I don't think I actually was...I think I just panic when I don't know what to say and so I just kind of freeze...but the way you describe it, with shutting off your senses...from what I've read here, that really is something very important to pay attention to...as you can handle it...so I'm glad your T is picking up on it. Like you said, a place to start.

Also, congratulations on having the courage to ask for another session!! And I'm so glad she "didn't bat an eyelid", as you put it. That's exactly the kind of "non response" we need when trying out those new behaviors.

Keep treading water, SD...before you know it you will be moving forward again. Actually, IMO, you already are. Big Grin

SG
Thanks SG.

I have actually LAUGHED today reading posts on the forum - thanks everyone for letting me find those muscles again.

I think young T was too busy trying to define exactly what zoning out I was doing to made a deal of it - and I must admit I was throwing a lot of things at her during those last few weeks as I was unravelling. This T has had more experience with trauma, ptsd and personality disorders and so is probably more in tune with it. This T is also 12 years more experienced - makes a big difference.

You know the other thing - which I hadnt thought of much before - new T is exactly my age is married the same length of time as I and has kids - Young t was 13 years younger, single and no kids. Some things T just gets because she has the same school / home / chaotic life. When you are single and you can go home to your own house and there is peace and no kids - it is very different. I think T has more in common with me.

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