Aww, Kash, (((hugs))), it is not stupid or drama to be thinking and feeling such things. It's a normal and valid reaction to a very painful, scary situation. I think about, and fear, this happening all the time with my own T, especially with his long commute and crazy hours. It would be hard for me to keep going, as inside would be screaming in pain every time that we can't do this, don't know how. Dissociating seems like the only way we learned to manage repeated aborted attachments with figures who were in and out of our life. However, sticking with it will give you a chance to have a new, different sort of transition and to learn that with a safe person, it won't be the same as an abusive or abandoning person. I know there are others who have ended without abrupt terminations and moved on to work with a new T and perhaps they could better speak to the value of it. I know the drive to protect your T from these hard feelings, but I think she is safe and understanding of them and being able to express those things might make a real difference, even if that's all that can be worked on. I know I would want to run, but I hope I would risk to stay. I'm so sorry this is happening, and if you can't express it to T, it feels too bad or threatening, I hope you'll at least continue to do it here.

(((KASHLEY)))

You do not sound like a total drama queen. And even if you did, I'd be right there with you because I totally get where you are coming from as far as not wanting to get back into a relationship with her. That really does have a sense of logic to it.

quote:

By the end of the session, she was talking about how she'll want to hear from me about how I'm doing and that we'll work out a referral to another therapist to continue the work.

I guess my question is...is it stupid of me to go ahead and call it quits now? I just don't want to hang around. I don't want to drag this whole thing out and talk it to death. It seems like I should just do what I should have done a long time ago.

I know you said she might retire in a year/year and a half but what she said above about the referral makes it sound much more imminent to me. Maybe you should talk more to her about exactly when she thinks she's going to retire, etc., and get her input on when you should leave?

Just want to say that I'm so sorry.

Aww kashley, that is not an easy thing Normal to be feeling all kinds of things about it. But like everyone else, I think you should stick it out. It's your best chance to experience a different kind of ending. If you just run away, what will you have learned from the experience? Maybe you don't know how to end any differently, but this is why you stick around, so your T can help teach you.

Kashley, I'm sorry you have been put in this position. It stirred up some feelings in me because my T is around that age also and I worry about her winding down and what would happen. I agree with BLT, that a good ending with her could be really beneficial to you. BTW you are not being a drama queen, this is really hard stuff. Take care.

I am so sorry. I'm going through a forced termination also and there is no question it's one giant mess of pain, confusion, clarity, and more pain. I decided to continue despite the knowledge of my T's departure and I'm not going to say that it's been awesome. Counting down the weeks has been hard, I've cried a lot and still have random panic attacks. But I will say that there has been nothing that has been more growth propelling either. Having a safe space in which to process, acknowledge, feel, and clarify my abandonment feelings/issues has shown me clearly the extent and impact of those same feelings (albeit from different perpetrators) throughout my life. I see so clearly now how these same exact feelings have risen (or were stuffed down) before and how they have been sabotaging me - how I've judged myself wrongly, how I've let people off the hook, and how it impacts how I see "new" people in my life (including potential relationships). I'm not sure I would have ever learned this in any other way. For that, I am grateful. She has taught me that my worth isn't tied to her departure, I can and will be ok, she cares despite saying goodbye. I am certain that I will find myself in a pool of tears in the days and weeks after she leaves. I'm also certain that this time period has taught me everything I need to know to navigate and accept the end of our relationship. With the help of my next therapist (whom I've already met, like, and look forward to working with), I will get closure and life will go on. There is both solace and healing in that.

My advice given that I've gone through it is to continue on. Instead of running away, go deeper, push harder, attach more. I know it's counterintuitive but there is a good, more fulfilling life and existence on the other side of the forest you're entering.

Thank you guys for the wonderful responses. You've made some great points that are just hard for me to see on my own right now. I'm still struggling with this...and struggling with the fact that struggling with this...so I will be back tomorrow when I'm in a better-ish place to respond. I hate that I'm upset over this.

Thanks again to you all.

Kashley, I know how frightening it was to hear those words from T. I'm truly sorry this is something you will need to face at some point in the near future. I agree with the others to stay and see it through to have a new and different kind of ending with her. You will learn to do it the correct way and with closure. As yes, attach even more and take in all that your T can give to you. That will be yours to keep with you for always. It will also make you stronger. I would also suggest when it gets close to her retirement that you have a T in place and have some sessions all together to transition and perhaps if you can, see them both simultaneously for a few weeks.

My only experience with ending with a T has been in the worst possible way with no real closure or transition time so I don't have a lot of advice. I do know that AG went through the retirement of her first T who she saw for over ten years and if you can get in touch with her I'm sure she will have some very wise and helpful words for you. She had a long notice and they spent the time very productively.

So while this is awful news for you to hear it will be okay and you will be okay too.

Sending hugs
TN

Hi Kashley,

Sorry to not respond sooner,. but I’ve been getting my youngest off to school for the spring semester. I’m sorry as I know this is a very difficult situation to be in (which is like saying the Atlantic Ocean is damp). I had worked with my first therapist for four separate bouts of therapy over a span of 22+ years, when she told me she was retiring. Her timing sucked btw, as in the four months before, my MIL was in the hospital for a month and came close to dying, my mother was diagnosed with Leukemia, my best friend died of a heart attack, and my FIL passed away of Alzheimer’s. THEN my therapist told me she was retiring. She had not finished getting the sentence out before I was sobbing. And feeling guilty for reacting that way. I don’t say this in a “stop whining, I had it worse” kind of way, but in a “this sucks and there is never a good time to have this happen” kind of way. You are still in the midst of your work and need more time, its a real loss for you.

quote:

I hate that I'm upset over this.

(((Kashley))) This is hard enough without you beating yourself up for how you’re feeling. To quote BN*, instead of hating yourself for how you’re feeling, just look at it as a fact from which you can learn about yourself. My husband and I were seeing BN for couples counseling when I found out my T was retiring. I was SO grateful to him, because his reaction when I told him this was happening was to be immediately compassionate. He was the only person in my life who really recognized how major it was really was for me. Anyone with a significant relationship with their T, which you most definitely have, would be higly upset. It is a deep loss and I think your emotional response is highly appropriate and not due any censure.

quote:

But I don't know how to continue on with this work with her, knowing there will be an end. It sounds stupid, but I don't know how to delve right back into things now. I want to stop while I'm still detached from the break.

Again, I understand how you feel, if its going to hurt, why continue and make it hurt more? But Kashley, this is the heart of the human dilemna. How do we love and connect and allow people to mean anything to us, when ultimately we WILL lose everyone? No one gets out of life alive. One of the lies that abuse taught us is that to love is to be in pain. So when you are looking at losing this relationship, what is overwhelming you is your acute sense of the pain you’ll be in. But what is missing is the real truth that love is the answer to pain. That the connection and love of your therapist is what will help you face this pain, even though she is also the source of it. Goodbyes are difficult for any human being. but especially so for someone with unresolved trauma, as we did not have the experience of rupture and repair, of being connected when away. You have a gift of time in which to process this loss, in which to speak of what it feels like for you and be heard and understood. To know that what you feel about this MATTERS and should be heard. Yes, it wil hurt, but it will also heal.

I had left my first therapist once by disappearing. As in just did not make another appointment, and then no contact for several years. When I went back, she was wonderful about it and I apologized, but I also promised myself I wouldn’t run again. So I stuck through the seven months of knowin g she was going and I have NEVER regretted it. It gave me time to both mourn and celebrate the relationship, to learn how to say goodbye without bitterness, to recognize that her leaving was not about me, nor did it mean that the relationship was fake or disappeared. I have neither spoken to or seen my first T since our last session, but I carry her with me every day. I also have no doubt whatsoever that wherever she is, she still loves me. She is still a part of me. Like all grief, I let go of knowing her in one way, to get her back in a way I could continue to carry with me. So many difficult things were evoked for me by her leaving and stopping to look at them and understand them was such an important part of our work. I would urge you to see it through.

quote:

And this might sound stupid and overreactive, too, but I keep having the recurring thought that I knew I should never have started all of this, because I'm still getting left. And so now I just want to quit and get it over with now, rather than waiting for the inevitable. I don't want to share all of this with T, because none of this is her fault. She's been doing this for 30 years..it's time for her to retire, and she deserves it. I don't want to hang around for another year, because I'll feel like I'm keeping her there in a job where she doesn't want to be.

It is not stupid or overreactive. Your experience is that moving closer in relationship gets you hurt. You moved closer in relationship to your T and now you’re getting hurt. OF COURSE you’re feeling like you should have listened to the part of you warning you off of doing this. BUT Kashley, I know that you have not only been in pain from this relationship. I have watched you grow, and watched you find the strength to face what happened to you, to find the strength to claim your own life and the right you have to live it in the way you want, free of further abuse. You have learned that you matter, that you are worth waiting for, that you deserve patience and care and understanding. All those things, which grew out of this relationship, cannot be taken away from you. Yes there is pain but pain is NOT the whole story. So while it is totally understandable that you feel this way, please know it is also not the whole truth.

On the other hand, understanding and accepting your Ts need to retire does not mean that you are not entitled to your feelings about her retiring. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are hurt or angry or feeling abandoned or anything else you feel. Expressing how you feel is not a demand that she changes what she does, it is just allowing yourself to also matter in this relationship. Because we think the only solution to the problem is to have them not retire, we think to speak of our feelings is to demand something we have no right to demand. But what if speaking our feelings and having them heard and understood is more important than getting what we want? Your T may not be able to keep working as long as you would like her too, but she can help you through the loss of her leaving.

I would strongly urge you to talk about EVERYTHING your feeling. Even though she is the one causing the feelings, she is still your T and your therapy is still about your feelings. It is not your job, nor would she want you to, take care of her and her feelings around leaving. She has other resources for that where her needs will be met. You care deeply about her and its understandable that you don’t want to make things worse for her. So don’t, by allowing her to do her job with you which is to create the space in which you are free to feel and express all of who you are.

You will not go through this alone. Your T will be there and so will we. (((Kashley)))

much love, AG

* BN is an acronym for my favorite nickname for my therapist, the Boundary Ninja for those of you unfamiliar with my blog.

Non - Thanks for the support and encouragement. I do feel a drive to protect her..I always have, and I've never really gotten out of that habit, no matter how much she tried to convince me that I don't have to protect her. I don't know if it's a hindsight thing or if I actually did notice this, but she seemed tired yesterday. Defeated, almost. That kicked that protective instinct into overdrive. ((hugs))

Liese - Yeah, it does make it sound more immediate. I think, outside of the context of the conversation, it sounded like termination was closer than it really was, but like I mentioned to Anon, she seemed tired yesterday and when she said that it'd be a year or so, I found myself looking at her and wondering if she would burn out before the year was over. And of course I worry that I'm just making her more tired. Thanks, Liese, for understanding this.

BLT - Thank you for that insight. You're right...maybe I can learn something from a healthy ending, which I've never experienced. And I hear you all - that I should stick around...I just don't know how to. And of course my T won't make me stay. I'm scared to stay, but I'm not sure why.

Becca - I'm sorry you're worrying about the same thing. I worried about it as soon as my T first told me how old she was. It was inevitable, and she deserves to enjoy life without people like me bumming her out every week. ((hugs))

Sunsheen - I'm also sorry you're in the middle of a similar situation. Your T sounds wonderful and I'm so glad you're gaining such valuable insights. I'm also happy for you that you like your next therapist - I hope you'll keep us updated on how things are going for you. ((hugs))

Outsider - Yikes..let her know what I'm thinking?! That would totally undermine my protective efforts! After reading through all of your responses, I think I will try to stick it out, at least as long as I can..

TN - Thank you for the support TN..I wonder if we could have a session with the new T, once I know who that is. Maybe it will help things not feel so abrupt. ((hugs))

AG - What's struck me most about this is that I guess I have always been in huge denial over just how important this relationship is to me. I've known at least a bit, but the stuff coming up since the session yesterday has woken me up to just how much I've attached to her, which even yesterday during the session (when I was still processing all of this) I somewhat denied when she talked about me being attached to her.

One of the things I'm having a hard time with is that back in October/November or so when she was encouraging me to find a group to join, I shared with her that I was worried she was trying to send me off and be rid of me. And at the time, she'd said that she didn't want that, that she had no plans to retire, etc. The thing is that yesterday, she pretty much admitted that she wanted me to find a group to help the transition away from her. And so I think back to the instincts that kicked in back in November that sent the alarm bells ringing that perhaps she wanted me out, and I know I will always trust that instinct now. Because if it was true with her, then it's probably going to be true with other people, too, if that makes sense. I just don't know how to differentiate between her wanting to help me "transition" and her just wanting to kick me out. For some reason, it feels like the same thing.

And then the timing - it was really just before she was gone for a month that I shared details about the CSA that I've never talked to her about before. And so now..even though the rational part of me think this isn't true, I am even more convinced that it's because of what I told her and what she now knows that we had this conversation yesterday. Why...how is it that she could acknowledge the things I told her and say that she could understand how the month off might seem like some sort of rejection, but then talk about termination? The month off was fine..it honestly was. I didn't necessarily think of it the way she thought I might. But this..on the first session back. I don't know. I don't know how to not think that she's disgusted with me and with what I told her, and that's why the termination talk couldn't wait.

Anyway, thank you AG, for being so open in sharing your experience with this. I had remembered that you'd had a healthy ending with your first T. I hope I can manage to stick around long enough to maybe get some closure, rather than just running away first.

And thanks again to the rest of you - Anon, Liese, BLT, Becca, Sunsheen, TN...you guys are so wonderful for being so supportive. ((hugs))

((((KASHLEY))))

quote:

I don't know how to not think that she's disgusted with me and with what I told her, and that's why the termination talk couldn't wait.

I totally agree that the termination talk could have waited and probably should have for your benefit but you might be connecting the wrong dots. It might have all been weighing on her mind, her exhaustion, thoughts of retirement, not wanting to let you down and the fact that she wasn't entirely truthful with you in November when she said she had no plans to retire - or maybe it was truthful and she herself believed it at that point. It could be that she really wanted to be there for you and wished it could be so but that the month off gave her the distance and clarity she needed to know she's tired and needs to take care of health and herself.

It could be that being upfront with you, and knowing that the more time you have to digest it is the best thing for you, was weighing heavily on her mind the whole month and she decided that the best thing to do was to tell you before she gave you any more mixed signals or delayed your grieving any more.

So, whilst it might have not been the best timing in terms of the disclosures you made right before the break and what dots you might connect upon being told the news of her retirement, it might have been the right timing for the other reasons.

quote:

And so I think back to the instincts that kicked in back in November that sent the alarm bells ringing that perhaps she wanted me out, and I know I will always trust that instinct now. Because if it was true with her, then it's probably going to be true with other people, too, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. Time and time again it never fails to amaze me how perceptive our guts can be. It seems as though she had already been thinking that she needed to retire and so you could say she was being untruthful but, again, there could be the part of her that really wants to be there for you and doesn't/didn't want to let you down and in that way, she wasn't being untruthful. Our T's have parts too and one of their parts can overshadow another at any given time.

I read in a book about the brain that there is so much going on in the brain at any one given time that there is no way any one of us could ever keep on top of it and still function day to day. So much of what happens is unconscious and that consciousness is only like the daily headlines in the paper. So, even though our guts might be picking up on something from someone else, it's also possible that they aren't even aware of it yet or are aware of it but haven't processed it yet.

So, I think it's wise to pay attention to our guts but not to attribute negative meaning to the disparity between the information you picked up and what she said to her when you asked her about it. In November, you picked up a message from T, asked her about it and she denied having any thoughts about retiring - which seemed to reassure you that she wasn't going to retire and then you ignored the information your gut gave you. However, it seems that in order to protect ourselves, we HAVE to pay attention to our guts but we don't have to believe that the other person was being untruthful or trying to hurt us by denying the truth when confronted. They just might not have the ability to be truthful or they might not be ready to be truthful. It doesn't mean they are trying to hurt us.

quote:

I just don't know how to differentiate between her wanting to help me "transition" and her just wanting to kick me out. For some reason, it feels like the same thing.

The reason it feels like the same thing is because in the past we dealt with people who weren't able to consider our needs and it WAS hurtful when they weren't truthful. And there are a ton of people out there who aren't psychologically sophisticated and can't mentalize and of whom we need to be cautious because they are just simply unable to differentiate their needs from yours. But hopefully we will all learn to avoid getting too involved with those people and find people who aren't as self-centered.

(((KASHLEY)))

You have done some amazing work with your T and she truly sounds wonderful. I'm so sorry it has to end.

Thank you, Liese. ((hugs))

I don't necessarily think she was being intentionally untruthful - this just..cut a hole in the trust I'd still been working on developing with her. I've been trying so hard for these past couple years to trust what she says, because she wants me to trust what she says. Then here we are. But this stuff happens, I guess. I shouldn't overreact about it, considering how great she's been to me for so long. It's going to be so hard to face her next week. I feel so guilty, even though I guess it does make sense that it's my therapy... I don't want to be angry or even annoyed with her over something that she truly deserves to do.

I don't know how I could find a T who could ever be as wonderful as she has been to me. I don't know who would have the patience...

"I don't know how I could find a T who could ever be as wonderful as she has been to me. I don't know who would have the patience..."

I've had the same thought many many times. Just keep in mind this is your fear talking. That fear is real - you can feel it in your body, think about it in your mind, hypothesize about outcomes, etc. However, just because the fear that you will never find someone is real - it's not true. The truth is there are a lot of people on this planet and you absolutely can find more people - both T's and others - who will become a part of your own little community of support. So, yes, feel the feeling of all of that fear, comfort yourself if you can, talk to your T about that fear over and over - but try to also step back and recognize that the fear itself (and the beliefs it produces) is mostly a manifestation of history and conditioning - and not truth. I know this is really hard to do - especially during stressful times like this. But I reckon that's the best time to practice too if you can!

Thanks, Sunsheen. Yeah..the thing is that I know I'm being unrealistic, in some sense at least. I just didn't know that in some ways, my sense of worth is still tied to how T thinks of me, or whether I can see her each week, or even every so often, just to check in and make sure she's still okay with me. And I don't know if that's wrong or if that's something that maybe I would eventually not have to do, but it feels like I would completely lose any sense of worth I've established. You are right about the fear, though, Sunsheen...I had the same thoughts before I started with my T, and I always knew that one day, if I ever had to start with another T, I would probably feel the same way again. But part of me hoped that I'd be able to get over that with my current T before I had to deal with another T at all.

God, I feel like I am being ridiculous! It seems like I shouldn't need her and so I shouldn't miss her. It feels SO wrong to have any sense of grief over the ending of this. It feels wrong to be attached to her, and I hate that all of these feelings that are coming up make it so much harder to deny the attachment. I feel so incredibly ashamed about my sadness and that I even acknowledge that there is a relationship there. She's told me she loves me, and I feel ashamed for whatever I've done to cause that. Why do I suddenly want to take the last few years back? None of this makes sense to me. I want to talk to her next week, but I'm so ashamed if I start to cry while I do, which seems inevitable at this point. So frustrated with myself.

She's your attachment figure. It makes TOTAL sense why you feel the need to check in, why your sense of worth is impacted by her recognition, etc. We are designed to be part of a community. That just is. She's a major part of your community and your attachment to her is a good, healthy thing. I don't think that the end goal of therapy is to not have such attachments; I think it's to have secure attachments with healthy people in the outside world and to learn how to self care to such an extent that we can accept those attachments will eventually end but still pursue and continue them nonetheless. Therapy is good training for all of that. It makes total sense why you still want and need to check in with her - just as it will/does make perfect sense why you will always want/need to check in with secure attachment figures outside the therapy room.

That all said, I so understand all of those feelings of being wrong for being attached and feeling ashamed for trusting, caring, wanting, needing. Those are hard feelings to deal with and I've cycled through them a lot too. I think it's ok to just accept them without judgment though. In other words, feel the shame, feel the frustration, feel the fear - but try not to judge yourself for having those feelings. Dealing with those feelings is hard enough - to the extent you can, don't add another layer of wounding by telling those feelings or yourself that you're wrong for having them. Because I can tell you that you're not wrong to have them. This is a loss. There will be grief. Anyone would be sad to lose an attachment figure. Anyone. Don't make it wrong and don't think you need to be tougher then others. It hurts and that hurt is normal. It's confusing and that confusion is normal. This is why going back to talk to your T could be so helpful for however long she practices - you will have an opportunity to confront this all head on once and for all. And you'll look back at yourself with the same compassion I feel for you now and recognize - this is a person who has lost others, is losing someone important, and is beginning the grief process. You'll look back and these reactions will all look so normal. Because they are.

Kashley, first of all, the stuff you are feeling sounds completely normal to me. Well I hope it's normal because I know I would feel the exact same thing and of course we all want to be normal, lol. But secondly and seriously, I think your feelings mean you are just not done yet. You haven't reached your ending point and haven't resolved what you need to.

Please be kind to yourself. This is really hard stuff and if you go in next week and cry, so what. Myself, I am getting really tired of me trying to second guess me, don't do that. Go in and tell her everything you feel. You don't have a lot to lose by doing that and it sounds like your T can handle that. She cares about you Kashley, she will take care and help you with this.

Kashley,
First of all, everything Sunsheen is saying as it resonates completely with my experiences. I think there is a lot of wisdom in what she is saying.

I totally understand the fear of not being able to find someone else. I NEVER thought I could ever form as close a relationship with another therapist as I had with my first. Then I met BN. My relationship with him allowed me to finish healing and taught me to be securely attached. I still need him, but I am ok with that. I also have a much stronger sense of him being there. Last session, I decided I needed to take break (not sure how long) and I brought it up, BN agreed, we shook hands and I said I'd call when I wanted to see him again. And it felt totally ok. I miss him when I don't see him, but I absolutely know he is there and we're ok. It really is possible to get there, you just need more time than you've had (I hasten to add that I worked for a very long time with my first T and I'm going on seven years with BN. I don't think I'm ever going to be "done." BN is a resource that I reach out to when I need to.)

OK, last but not least, the overwhelming, confusing feelings of shame. Your limbic system which carries your implicit sense of relationships is on high alert. You did something that it (reasonably based on your experience) perceives as dangerous by moving closer in relationship. Then you got hurt. So your limbic system is basically doing huge told you so dance right now and internally screaming "SEE!! SEE!! I told you this was a bad idea, now get the f*&^ out there!" We are social creatures who depend on others to survive so it is incredibly important that we do not violate group values enough to be driven out. When we feel like we've messed up, shame kicks in to bring us back in line (remember your limbic system wants you alive, but is not at all concerned with your happiness or how you feel). So shame is the most powerful weapon in our emotional arsenal.

When our attempts to express our needs, or get them met are answered by rejection, punishment and abuse, we learn to feel deeply ashamed of them in the hope that the feeling of shame will be intense enough to stop us from expressing these incredibly intense (reasonable) needs. We learn to be ashamed of having those needs. There is nothing to be ashamed of, but your unconscious learned differently. Not because of anything wrong with you, but because your father abused you and distorted your perceptions of the truth. You are having reasonable reactions to unreasonable circumstances.

So you are feeling all this shame to "protect" you from seeking out your attachment figure. But that is the answer to shame Kashley. To not hide, to speak and be seen and known. So that when your T does not react with scorn or derision, she will confirm to you that your shame is not necessary and is misplaced. Speaking through shame is how we break its power. But I'm not sure there is anything that feels worse.

AG

(((Sunsheen))) (((Becca))) (((AG)))

Thank you so much. I'll have to come back later and respond more in depth to each of you. Everything in me is just screaming to find a way to forget any hurts and avoid this pain. It's so hard to think that I'll ever want to get close to anyone again. I know it's not realistic, it's just..a feeling, I guess. I want so, so badly to avoid this. I'm so tired of pain. I'm tired of the supposedly good things ending up as hurts.

Thanks again to you guys. You've told me some really wonderful and valuable things, and I really appreciate it. Your words are a source of comfort to me that I keep re-reading to try to soak in. I'll be back when I can to respond individually.

((((Kashley)))) Sorry to just drop in out of nowhere, I honestly logged on tonight for the first time in forever and yours was the only post I read- I just want to offer my support- I'm sorry to hear that your T's potential retirement is maybe coming sooner than later. You can work through this though- and you are brave enough and strong enough to come through this stronger, not weaker, than before. That negative voice inside that wants you to give up right now and walk away from therapy before your gut says the time is right- just tell it to take a hike. You can have a positive experience out of this. Your T is still there for you- just it 's hard to let go of the relationship sooner than you'd like, and the timing sucks- but when you lost out in the past which left you with all this pain to work through- I'll bet the timing sucked then, too. This time you have someone showing you, telling you ahead of time, preparing you, and helping you through it? Sounds like it. Could be a very positive, (though, without doubt, painful, yes!) experience.

I'm rooting for you, Kashley- from where I sit it looks like an opportunity for growth, and growth never comes without a fair bit of pain, sometimes, pretty agonizing pain- But then- you knew that.

Big hugs to you, girl- and lotsa love,

Beebs

Aw..Beebs, it's so great to see you, and so sweet of you to comment on this.

I think the thing I'm still struggling with the most is the overwhelming shame I feel for having any sort of grief over this. I still want to come back and comment more on this, and respond individually to you all..I'm just still not in a place where I can tolerate thinking about this. I already cannot make it through the day without crying which is just fantastic..

I'm supposed to see T on Thursday. It's going to be hard to face her, because I feel bad for my reaction last time, or lack thereof. I pretty much just shut down at the time. Didn't feel anything, barely said anything. I just went numb, and then the session felt pointless.

Ok, gotta take a step back again. Just wanted to thank you, Beebs, and let you know I read your post. And thanks again to everyone else. Hugs to you all.

quote:

I think the thing I'm still struggling with the most is the overwhelming shame I feel for having any sort of grief over this.

Shame is a really tough emotion to deal with. But you are experiencing a real loss. Loss of something or someone important causes grief in us. That is actually a very normal, healthy reaction and no reason to feel guilty or ashamed. I think your T would certainly understand your reaction and would even expect it. I also understant that our first reaction to overwhelming painful emotion is to shut it down and to "numb out".

I think by approaching this topic little by little with your T, you would be titrating the grief and loss to a manageable emotion and having her to process this with you and not leave you alone with what feels like overwhelming feelings (as happened to you as a child) will make this a real growth experience (albeit painful as Beebs notes in her post).

You are strong and smart Kashley and you will come through this with your T's help and guidance.

Hugs
TN

Hello, all... I'm in a numb place right now, and I'm looking at things quite objectively today, but it's allowing me to catch up on some things, including the posts that I've wanted to reply to.

((Sunsheen)) I am seeing now that yes, she is my attachment figure, so that's why it feels like such a big loss. But I guess in my endless pursuit to make me feel crappy (I had another word in mind..) about myself, I've decided that I never should have allowed her to become my attachment figure, because it's too big of a burden for her. I know I should make presumptions for her and assume what she can or can't handle...but I guess that's what I'm doing anyway.

quote:

this is a person who has lost others, is losing someone important, and is beginning the grief process.

I've tried to figure out why something about this didn't click with me, and it finally occurred to me that I don't see myself as ever having "lost" anyone before. I don't know that I've ever really "had" anyone to lose before, and so this is so foreign to me, and the pain is enormous. Some might say I lost my father or my childhood or whatever..but I don't see myself as ever having those things in the first place. I never had a father. Just someone who hurt me. And I never had a childhood. Just years of pain. So losing T is a pain that I've never felt before.

Thanks again, Sunsheen, for all of your insight and understanding. ((hugs))


((Becca))

You're right...I guess I don't have much to lose at this point, do I? Thank you for reminding me that my T cares. I think I have starting to trust that that's the truth, so it helps to be reminded of that. ((hugs))


((AG))

quote:

I miss him when I don't see him, but I absolutely know he is there and we're ok. It really is possible to get there, you just need more time than you've had

Yeah, I was hearing all of those signs of attachment as I was writing some of this stuff - that I'm OK now to branch out, just a bit..from time to time..but that I still need to check back in somewhat often. And so looking at it from that perspective, I suppose I can accept that I could have been okay if this were happening a lot further down the road. Wow...am I really describing a secure attachment? That's..a bit surreal, actually, to think that I may actually have a secure attachment in my life.

And yes.. you described the shame and those internal thoughts perfectly. It's powerful, and it's a system that has "worked" for as long as I can remember. The thing, though...isn't the shame functioning perfectly right now? Keeping me from reaching out to an attachment figure that will be leaving in the somewhat near future? Protecting me from the pain of that loss? That's why I'm tempted to listen to it. But I can also see the other side of the coin..that it may not be entirely pain that is waiting for me if I reach out to her. Sigh...but a lot of it will be.. Anyway, as always, thank you AG.

((Beebs))

Like I said before, it is wonderful to see you. Yeah..that voice is telling me the opposite of what you're saying - that I'll be weaker and more broken after this, and that this should be another lesson for the future. I guess I can only see about a different conclusion if I keep going, right? Thanks for all of the love and support, Beebs.

((TN))

It helps to hear that maybe T is expecting this sort of reaction. It'll be interesting to see how this next session goes. Well, interesting and a bunch of other things, too. I've at least committed to going on Thursday. I may have to make week-to-week commitments with myself for a while. Hugs to you, TN.

quote:

The thing, though...isn't the shame functioning perfectly right now? Keeping me from reaching out to an attachment figure that will be leaving in the somewhat near future? Protecting me from the pain of that loss?

Kashley,
That's the point, its only "protecting" you from the part that can help you. The loss is a given, it is in any relationship. You can leave now but it will still hurt. You can see it through until the end and have your Ts support, acceptance and love to help you face this inevitable pain. Grief is simply the bill that comes due for all that we gain from our relationships. Tell me, if you could go back now would you give up everything you have had with your therapist, all the healing you have done, to avoid this pain?

I have a favorite quote of CS Lewis that applies here.

quote:

To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket--safe, dark, motionless, airless--it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to risk of tragedy, is damnation.

The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.

There is both suffering and joy in life and the only way we can have one is to remain open to the other. Somehow accepting that suffering is going to happen moves us through it more quickly.

I'm very sorry, I do know how very painful this is and I do not mean to be dismissive of your very real and very justified pain. You've been very patient and gracious about discussing this with me.

love, AG

Thanks, AG. You're not being dismissive, and I do hear what you're saying. I'm realizing now how pervasive and tenacious all of this automatic thinking is - all of the stuff that keeps me going in circles..The stuff is shame or guilt or filth or brokenness or a million other things. And it keeps circling back with another hit. What you're saying makes perfect sense, but somehow I end up coming up with a way to keep myself exempt from everything that you're talking about.

I don't know if that makes sense. Anyway, you've been wonderful to talk this through with me. I'm just frustrating myself with all of this at this point... I'm so tired of my own thoughts, and I'm so tired of pain. I see T tomorrow, so I'm just going to wait and see how that goes.

**Potential Triggers**

I told T pretty much everything. Told her about my reactions, admitted to being angry with her (which she was way too pleased about). Told her that I'd thought about stopping therapy all together to avoid dragging everything out. She told me that since we'd done such deep work for so long that she wanted to give me plenty of warning. And she said that it had been weighing on her. She told me that I was the only client she'd told and that the only other person she's told is the person she consults with once a month, and that she'd just said that she was thinking about it. Honestly, I don't think she had any idea that I took things the way I did. She seemed surprised when I told her everything I'd been thinking, and reiterated that she doesn't even have a date in mind. I explained that I am constantly waiting for the moment when she kicks me out, so any inkling of that sets off alarm bells, which she completely understood.

We talked about my attachment to her and fear of love and intimacy..and then we somehow ended up nearly talking about something that I've sworn to never tell anyone. Ever. Even her. And now I'm a mess all over again. Even in the middle of the session I started to feel such strong self-hatred that I had the urge to do something destructive to myself, which honestly hasn't been a problem in months. And somehow I'm angry with her about it, and I have no idea why.

I'm angry that she can act like things are normal, I guess. That she can talk about leaving, no matter how far down the road it is, and just go on with things like nothing happened. Like last week she didn't just tell me that she, the only person I've ever opened up to, did not just talk about leaving my life forever.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who reads this update. It's not fair for me to be angry with her..she was great and to anyone else it probably would have been enough. I'm just too sensitive.

(((kashley)))

I'm so glad and proud of how courageous you were to talk so openly with your T. I'm also glad that she doesn't have a very firm date in mind, but I can understand how hard it would be to feel like something that rocked your world did not register to her as quite so intense as it was interpreted. I know this is really hard, but I'm so glad that you are able to be mad at her, while still caring and feeling cared about. It's obvious how much she considers and cares for you. I'm glad you have her and hope you can continue to work through what this has stirred up.

(((KASHLEY)))

You are not too sensitive. It's good that you told her how the news affected you. She must have had some clue as to how the news would affect you as you are the only client she told. It says to me that she cares very deeply for you. I know it's all very hard. It's okay to be angry about it. It really does stink.

(((Non)))) (((Liese)))

Thanks for the support, you guys. Liese, you're right..she must have had some sort of clue. And Non, I also hope we can work with what came up yesterday. Even after working with her for years, there are still a few things that I haven't shared with her just because of the enormous shame surrounding them. And I got partway to telling her one of those things yesterday until I just couldn't tolerate any more. I don't know how we got there yesterday..I really don't. But, I do have more confidence that we'll get through it somehow. I just have to try not to self-destruct until we do.

Thanks, guys. I'm hoping to talk more about the anger with her next week. I kind of glossed over it, but I can tell now that, this time, I really do need to talk about it.

(((kashley))) i'm glad you talked to openly with your T about this. i also think that you have every right to be angry with her and the situation. we spill our guts to these people and get all attached and of course we want them to be at our disposal for the rest of our lives (maybe that's just me ). and yeah, the act like things are normal. sometimes i swear they put on an act of naivete.

i want to write more, but i've got to take off for now. kashley, you did good. your anger and sensitivity towards the situation are totally understandable and valid. please take care and keep doing the great work you are doing.

Kashley,
I haven't responded until now but have been hoping to see you feel better. I think your thought of being overly sensitive is not true...you've invested a lot with your T...I would have felt the same as you. So glad you told her all of how you felt. Good work!
's
Hopeful

quote:

It's not fair for me to be angry with her..she was great and to anyone else it probably would have been enough. I'm just too sensitive.

Nope. UH-HUH. Not getting away with that one.

You are NOT being sensitive at all Kashley, these are really understandable reactions and I know I was angry about the same things when FirstT told me she was retiring. There really is this sense of "are you seriously telling me that you're sitting across from me discussing us never seeing each other again?!! When you PROMISED to be there?"

And to quote BN "It's not about fair in my office." Your T gets fair from her friends and family not her clients. It's about your feelings. And if we're on the subject of fairness, is it fair that you've worked through terrible fears to open up and allow this person in and then have to face losing them. There is nothing fair about the therapeutic relationship Kashley. It's not fair to us that we cannot know fully someone we care so much for, nor can we see them outside of a very small proscribed space and time. And its not fair to them that they have to keep so much of themselves hidden in what is such an intense, intimate relationship (which is true for both of you or it wouldn't be feeling that way for either of you.) Unfortunately, as unfair as it is, its also the only way it heals.

But you're not being unfair or overly sensitive or <insert any other judgements here>. This is difficult to face and you're going to cover the gamut in terms of how you feel about it.

And on some level you deeply trust her or you wouldn't have found yourself talking about something you swore you would never tell anyone (wish I had a nickel for every time I said that ). You can trust her with all of you, including your anger.

quote:

we want them to be at our disposal for the rest of our lives (maybe that's just me )

CD, it is not just you, count me in. I have visions of breaking into a nursing home where my T is and telling him we can fit in just ONE more session. I know there will come a day where the relationship is going to be over (he'll retire or one of us will die) but am perfectly ok to not think about it. Sometimes denial is useful.

AG

Well said AG!

quote:

And I think Liese was dead on in saying that her choosing to talk to you so early is a clear indicator that she gets it.

Ditto. I know that my T gives me as much notice as possible for schedule changes or her vacation time. She's given me as much as four months notice for a schedule adjustment before! She knows I need the adjustment time, and that sounds like what your T is doing - giving you time to process so you can work through things before she does retire.

(And it does seem that Ts have a strange affection for our angry feelings toward them!)

(((Kashley)))

Sorry for not getting back to you all sooner. (((CD, Hopeful, AG, Starlight, R2G)))

CD - I think, on some level, I'd just chosen to forget that she wouldn't always be around for me just because it was too painful. So yes, I'm right there with you.. I always want her to be there. Forever. And I've always been somewhat thankful about the way that she can act like things are normal, except for now. Although I do remember now (I think) that she even mentioned that the reason I might be angry is because she does talk about leaving in a nonchalant way - or something to that effect. But it doesn't matter..even though she might realize she's acting like normal, it doesn't change the fact that she's acting like normal and it still hurts.

Thanks, Hopeful, for dropping in! It's very sweet of you to read along with this...I really appreciate the support. ((hugs))

AG, you crack me up. My anger about her acting like normal also stems from another comment she made. She said that she wouldn't bring it up again until we were about 4-6 months away from ending. It just exacerbated my original "How can you act like normal!?!" reaction. And I'm going to be continually waiting for that moment. Of course, I also understand that because there is such an imbalance in the relationship, it's a lot easier for her to continue on with things like normal than it is for me. But, in my mind, I still don't have a solid commitment with myself to stick it out until the very end. Just like I used to think that she would have kicked me out long before now, I still think that somehow all of this will end prematurely. As to how that will happen, I don't know yet.

And you're right..on some level I do have a deep trust for her. I feel guilty for still having things that I've never told her, though, and I kind of feel like I'm betraying her by not sharing everything already. But I remembered yesterday that she'd told me back in December that she respects my reasons for still holding some things back (I hadn't told her that I was..she picked up on that). So maybe it's not so bad. I was so convinced she'd think I was horrible for what I was telling her - although I still haven't shared everything - but she was listening to me, giving me the space to cry for a few minutes, and then said "So, am I supposed to think you're a horrible person? You're going to have to work a lot harder than that to get me to think you're horrible!" Typical T.

What's going to be very, very hard, is that since we live in a fairly small town, the likelihood of me running into her from time-to-time is extremely high. And it's going to be so painful for that to happen once she's no longer my T. I'm dreading those moments the most.

R2G - Yes, historically my T has also given me a fair amount of notice in schedule changes. Although, a year out is a bit of a record. I'm trying not to feel pathetic or take it the wrong way that she felt the need to give me so much more notice than anyone else. She just said that with the intensity of our work, she wanted to give me a lot of warning - and somehow I've found a way to turn that "intensity" into yet another thing to be ashamed of.

Haha, and yes... she broke out this big smile and called it a breakthrough when I admitted to being angry with her.

Thanks to you all, as always, for being so great. I'm still basically miserable from all of this and constantly on the brink of tears, but it helps so much to have you all here to help me make sense of it all, at least as much as is possible.