Hi Sadly... wishing you a very safe and happy trip to India. Is this a vacation? I'm curious as to why you would want to return to such a place of trauma for you. If that is being too nosy just ignore the question.

I'm glad SweetP is being to kind and understanding and offering you those phone sessions should you need them. I'm sure you will miss him but it seems that you have things in place to help keep him close to you.

It seems like we are on the same schedule as I just also marked six months with my T (actually it will be on Wednesday) but I gave him a gift today in recognition of the six months. I'll post about it later. I'm glad we both made it this far considering the awful pain from the abandonments we suffered. We are survivors.

Have a great trip. Check in here if you can along the way.

Best,
TN

Sadly, I'll miss you while you're gone. I'm glad you were able to have such a good session with sweetP for leaving on your trip. It really is warming to hear of how much he cares for you. I hope you're able to take that emotional holding with you on your trip and able to connect with him via phone, so you aren't missing him too much. (((((((((HUGS))))))))))

Have a safe trip, Sadly.

Namaste and safe travels Sadly! We'll be here for you when you return (and if you happen upon an internet cafe during your India adventures, we'll be here then, too!)

(((Sadly)))

Have a safe trip Sadly. I'm glad you had such a great session with sweetP before leaving. We'll see you when you return!!

quote:

why I do not feel others caring, but I can care and love.

Thank you for your post. This is exactly me. Let me know what your T says.

Have a good trip- stay close to us, and to your T.

Hele

arrived safely in Delhi and am about to go out but just wanted you all to know that I appreciate your support. Might have more time to write later. I am in India for training, up in the Himalayas. this is the sixth time back for me, after the awful time in the 80's. I did not come back for 16 years.
I feel fairly okay right now but some of that is knowing you guys and sweetP are aware /i am here and it could be hard for me.
much hugs

Sadly,
Thinking of you and wishing you safe travels. I am so glad your T has offered all he has and I hope you are able to take him up on it. I know you will miss him deeply. Please know we are here and thinking of you, as well. You are not alone....
seablue

Thanks for the update. Still thinking good thoughts for your trip!

HAve reached the Himalayas, after a 13 hours night public bus ride and then two hours by taxi. It is difficult being here but it helps having internet access.
I keep looking at sweetP's photo, and as soon as I see his face, I feel his acceptance and kindness. He did say that he knew he shouldn't but he kept wanting to shout out "don't go! Don't go!' as he knows the tensions I have about being here, the old bullies lot are here and also memories of first stay in india etc. He even said he was hoping that I would find the confidence to pull out of this course and not return next year.
I feel indoctrinated by this group - it is a heinous crime if you don't realise you are so fortunate to be on this course and doing this training, you have worked for life times for this precious opportunity. How can one walk away from that kind of deeply ingrained way of thinking! Heck.
I also realised on the bus that I have been so hurt/rejected/angry by sweetP saying he will not hold me, that my hurt raw vulnerable part that is so pre verbal went into a bit of a tail spin and was planning to get a father figure to hold her even if it meant he abused her body first, as that is the story of my life, and why not do it again - I would trade quite a lot of abuse for a cuddle. Mad huh. And then I felt angry at sweetP that 'he had forced me to this'. Even more mad huh. I feel desperate to be held and him refusing to hold me makes that part of me even more desperate, so pray for me that I don't do something really stupid.

He asked me to take care, he requested infact, ' "please could you hear me when I ask you to take care and go well in india' and I actually retorted, " i WON"T take care (stamp of tiny foot) and I won't and you can't make me and don't care that I won't take care!" and he does not know why I said that. From my hurt me's perspective, he is the cause of this present extreme hurting and so what right has he to request me to take care! He is the one who won't hold me, who is so uncaring about the little me who does not understand words. Grrrr.

I half want to get myself into loads of deep trouble just to tell him: THAT is what happens when you refuse to hold me.

So I am in a mighty three year old strop.

Sigh. Please don't laugh. I actually would trade a lot for a small amount of cuddle/holding. That is the story of my life really.

I am sorry I am not posting much on anyone else's thread- the internet connection is very slow and I am very exhausted from lack of sleep. The bus was identical to the bus in the dream a week ago, when I dreamt I was assaulted - so that was unnerving plus I got surrounded by oggling men when I was on the Metro in Delhi and that was so frightening that I blushed and giggled with fear, not the right signals at ALL. Travelling back I got into the ladies only coach. Phew.

It is bizarre to be in India and not want to be. To be doing something here that I don't want to do but am too indoctrinated to be able to pull out of yet. To be spending money that we don't have doing all this. To be in such a mess that any small thing could trigger me and I am continents away from home. I am either very courageous or very foolish, or just both. Please send me strong supportive thoughts and some kindness if you have some spare.

Good to hear from you Sadly! Glad you made it there rather safely. Love how they have gender separated transportation in India

I know what you mean - wishing you could trade in a lot of yuck for just a little bit of cuddling. All I want is a bit of a cuddling sometimes, and it's just me, so I've got to cuddle myself, which isn't exactly comforting!

Anyway, thanks for the update, keep plugging along (even if you are stomping your foot here and there) and do take care - not because your T told you to, but because it's the right thing to do, staying safe.

(((Sadly)))

Actually, R2G, when I find myself in a tricky situation right now, I seem to hear his voice saying " Please S, I request you that you take care, please" and I start taking care, darn him!

Sadly, I'm glad you can listen to your sweetP and take care, but I understand that "you wouldn't rescue me like I needed, so now I'll show you what happens when I am left to care for myself and I can't do it," feeling. It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry the trip is weighing heavily, but I hope you eventually come home refreshed and happy for the experience. I understand what you mean about trading an awful lot to be held. Pretty much the only people who have held me have been romantic partners, some of them basically abusers, and I thought I had to purchase their affection by surrendering what they wanted...which was not at all what I wanted at the time. I am still so amazed that you can ask for what you need like that. I tried to be able to ask T to move closer on Tuesday and I couldn't even have words when I was in that state. I couldn't say anything or look at him. Even having practiced what I needed to say in my head, when I got there, that terrified part of me that needed him near could only throw out distress signals. Sigh...why is it that Ts cannot adopt us again? (((((((((((Sadly))))))))))))) Missing you and praying your trip goes well.

you know, Yaku - it is terribly hard asking. when I did ask him which was only two weeks ago, I spent 90 mins shaking and frozen with fear, he could not get a word out of me and eventually when the session had ended I asked "why is touch so taboo for you?" then the next session I admitted how much I want him to hold me and that he won't and how just being there and being honest is helpful.
Actually he is really sustaining me here right now, I find I think of him and feel supported and not so alone. I have my husband too - as it is our 20th Wedding anniversary today, so rang home and spoke with my lovely hubby. So nice. So I shall be okay.
Asking is hell, really hard, but I spent months approaching it, and it may take months for you too, - tiny baby steps Yaku,
many hugs back ((((Yaku)))))

I go to India, becos one of the ways i have tried to cope with having so much pain and torment in my mind, has been to learn meditation from various traditions and at the moment - my main meditation teacher is in India, and I have learnt from him since 2003. In 2003 I came back for the first time since the awful abuse of 1987 and no one in the group I travelled with HAD A CLUE why I occasionally looked a bit tense or on edge. It was really hard being that triggered and not having anyone to talk to. But I have been back several times since, this is my seventh and I find it is easier each time. I wrote -PF_ on my blog yesterday about something that happened yesterday that was healing about being here. So there are good bits too. But yes, sometimes I do wish I did not have to come here and be in this environment - especially when it is quite a hard environment to be in. It is funny really - we learn all about kindess and compassion in the teachings and then people can be very unkind to each other or just ignore each other - so it is hard. I don't have close friends here, but I do have my son with me and he is lovely. I guess I just keep facing my demons.

Thanks for sharing your experiences around asking for holding. It really is inspiring to me. I'm fairly certain my T will have an impermeable boundary there, so I still cannot ask. But, maybe I will be able to ask for closeness soon, for being next to one-another. For there to be a chance for him to choose to reach out if I am suffering. Or maybe I will keep writhing in silence. Who knows?

I am still feeling the kindness and support of sweetP - five days after seeing him. This has to be a record. I am amazed that I feel his kindness still and that I can be here and feel okay about being here, because sweetP has validated and acknowledged that the pain I carry is valid and that I have yet to be healed and met in it.
I am having a difficult time with a woman on the course who is raving about a guru who was a known rapist amongst other things and for many reasons I find it hard to keep quiet about these things. I keep saying I do not condone rapists and she justs says but aren't his teachings wonderful. People can be so naive about these things.

Sadly,

Wanted to reply earlier, but couldn't get my head straight. Sorry for the delay. I am so sorry that you having to come across such ignorance. It must be so triggering. I'm glad sweetP is there with you in your heart. You so deserve that experience! ((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

I get to phone him tomorrow and I think he will be happily surprized at how well I am doing. I feel really okay at the moment. Amazingly.
Tired but at peace and happy. Each time I have been here before I have been carrying my pain and hurt hidden inside and now I know it better and I have others who know of it too, and that helps.
I met a friend today and talked a little about sweetP and she said 'it sounds like you are in love with him ' and started warning me to be careful. that was strange for me, because yes, I do like to talk of him and think of him but it is like he is such a kind caring figure in my life and so meaningful for me to have this relationship - that is safe and healing, that I think it is normal to be so powerfully struck by him. She did not think it was normal though. Sigh.

Hi Sadly... I'm glad to hear that your trip is going well (aside from that ignorant woman) and that you are keeping SweetP close to you. That is very important that you are doing that.

I agree with everything FOT said. People who have not been in therapy and not experienced attachment will have NO idea of what we are trying to describe to them. When I was traumatized by oldT's abandonment, only those who have expereinced an attachment relationship could understand my feelings and why I was suffering so much. They just didn't get it and tried to imply there was a romantic relationship which was so not true. I would try to describe it to them "it's as if both of your parents, who you are very close to, are suddenly killed."

Enjoy your chat with sweetP and wishing you a safe and happy remainder of your stay in India.

TN

Yeah, H, friends and family members all joke about me being in love with T. I think even people who have been in therapy, but don't struggle with attachment specifically (like my H and my sister) will not get how strong and healing that connection can be. So glad you will get to talk to sweetP soon!

Did talk to sweetP today for half an hour though getting hold of him by phone was hell and took 70 minutes.

He was just lovely and kind to me, admitted he had been a little concerned about me and that it had sounded like I was going into a really difficult place for me but actually was pleased for me that I am doing okay.

He apologised profusely for the mess up with the phoning and had even texted my husband to apologise that I could not get hold of him.



He was so pleased for me, that I am doing so very well and that I am feeling stronger. I told him how I felt I was here with my hurt and with my hurt acknowledged by him, and that it makes all the difference. And that knowing I could phone him changes the whole feeling of being here. He was careful to arrange the next phone in, in a week's time so that it went more smoothly.

I said I worry every day, several times a day that he will end with me suddenly (like the ex counsellor) and that I won't be able to argue, just like I told him I wanted to be held and he said no, that he heard my need but he does not agree with it. I worry that he will say he hears my need to continue working with him and that he does not agree with it and so he says no to working more with me and I won't be able to argue that either.

He was so sweet about this. He said that if we took a very unlikely hypathetical situation that he thought we should end, in my best interests and I disagreed strongly then as my therapist he would have to allow us both to work that out until we both came to some mutually agreed view on that that we both felt comfortable with. Which would take time. He said commitment and constancy and reliability are hugely important to me just now. He would not leave me still hurting. He also said that in the long run the best outcome is that I do not want to come to sessions anymore as I don't feel that I need them. But he said that it did not look likely nor would it be appropriate yet as I am not near that yet. Sweet man. He also reminded me that we actually have a contract for a year, until Jan 1st and in the contract there is a review to see what needs to happen next. I hear that he is trying to tell me that he will continue working with me but that he had to do it this way, as that is what the NHS insist upon these days.

I told him that I dreamt of him last night and he led me into a room for a session and there were lots of other people in there, and they had suffered stuff like me and he had arranged that for me, so that I could talk to people like me. (I have never talked to a real person in the flesh, about what I have been through and they have been through similar stuff too.)

He said that this dream reveals how hidden and different I have felt from others and how I am beginning to feel more open about what I have gone through. which is true.

I am too tired to say more but I was so pleased that I got to talk to him and that he was kind and affirming yet again and he ended by saying, " Please take care - I want you to look after yourself." And I said that his words had touched and moved me as I was taking care and I was looking after myself and when I nearly didn't I could hear his voice asking me to take care.

I am so glad you all understand how I feel for sweetP - that he is such a strong attachment figure for me and that he is being so strongly there for me and I just LOVE him for being so good and kind and sweet and stable and hearing and listening and caring and emotionally holding and present for me. I love him for allowing me a space where I can feel safe and TELL the things that hurt inside and ADMIT the aching need to be held and he does not and will never laugh at me for having that need hurting inside of me. How can he NOT matter to me now? He matters to me so much. I got the picture of him printed out today in the monastery so I now have a proper colour photo of him and when I feel a bit wobbly and a bit critical of my pain, and negating it again - I look at the photo of him and I see his kindness and his gentleness and again remember how he accepts me and he does not judge me and I feel better again. I just feel better.

Eulogy over sweet P over - for now. I feel so steadied by him.

I'm so glad you got to talk to sweetP, but sorry it was so hard to get a hold of him. He really is there for you! It's so great to hear, so thank you so much for sharing.

It's good to read this Sadly. thank you for sharing it.

BB

Sadly

It sounds like you had a wonderful conversation with SweetP, I'm glad you were able to get a hold of him even if it wasn't easy.

He truly does sound like a strong attachment figure for you. He's steady, loyal, and present for you. ...all wonderful qualities to have in a T. It sounds like the two of you have a solid relationship.

thank you LG, BB and Yaku - it was sweet of each of you to post - I appreciate it. i feel better for knowing that I can post here. Imagine if I could have posted in 87 when i was in India and all those awful things were happening to me. Just imagine if I could have just got out my laptop and posted here for advice!!!
So glad you and this forum are here now.
I see His HOliness on Saturday, and that is important to me too, another person who is understanding and kind.
I feel held - I actually feel held!

I love hearing from you. I was scared you wouldn't be able to post while you were over there, so I'm glad you're able to get on and touch base and offer (and receive) support like you have been. ((((((((Sadly))))))))

I am actually sitting in front of the Tibetan Rinpoche in the shrine room, typing to you lot! Naughty but fun! he does not know I have internet access! might get to type more later, have something to say on attachment stuff. It is fun knowing you are there, and nice of you to say that you love hearing from me Yaku - must dash.

It is wonderful to hear from you! I'm glad you feel so held... type more when you can...

Can't wait to hear what you have to say! ((((hugs))))

quote:

I feel held - I actually feel held!

((((Sadly))))

Loving that you're so able to keep in touch with us on this journey! You are inspiring!!

break time again, and he is sitting infront of me, and does not know I am sitting here 'talking' to you. LOL
will try and get access this evening for a while, internet signal keeps going.

Attachment stuff.
[LIST]

I am aware that I feel like I have a grown up in my life right now. (sweetP)

That I feel like I am soothed deep inside, from the being listened and heard and met - my pain and fears and hurts held and acknowledged

I feel like I am different inside too - is this what it feels like to be respected and cared for ? In a real and deep way?

I feel like a missing piece of the jigsaw has just been put in place and I did not even know how bad it felt to have that piece OUT of place, well not even on the board.

is this making any sense?

it is like being allowed room to grow whilst not having to edit or hide how you actually feel inside.

it feels like I am okay as I am, even though how I am holds lots of pains and hurtings

I don't feel so tight and closed up anymore

part of me fears this feeling will go away and part of me suspects it might be just the beginning ...

some people have had this all their lives so would not have a clue what it has been like to live for 49 years without it.

this has been worth the agony of the ex C and the chaos that ensued this past two years from the aftermath of the bullying at work - this is indeed a silver lining.

that is all for now - just tell me if it makes sense or resonates with any of you.

It feels so good to hear you say these things and sense the deep connection that is awakening within you from your work with sweetP. You deserve to know things things and be healed from their lifelong absence! I have had only a taste here and there of some of the things you are describing before my mind shuts down, afraid to accept it and then have it be lost or taken away. (((((Sadly))))) When is your next call with sweetP?

(((Sadly)))
It seems there's a whole lot of healing going on within - helped along by sweetP and this trip! It is so good to know!!

I had a bad night last night, a lot of crying. Missing sweetP I guess. I phone him tomorrow, 9.30am BST. Monday.

I saw the head of our meditation lineage yesterday, and I tried so hard to talk to His Holiness about some of the stuff that you here know. BUt my son was with me so it was almost impossible. Afterwards I felt terrible, like I wasted his time talking about things that he did not understand maybe, and I felt so unimportant and it felt like I was reaching out to Him but was unable to get a connection. It was really painful.

I have been feeling numb or hurting for the last three days, which is why I have not been posting.

Soon I shall be home, Thursday, so not long to go now.

I still hate it that sweetP won't hold my little me. I just simply hate it, in a very two year old way.

((Sadly))
Just hold on - it will be okay!! You have your son with you and I'm sure he's learned during the trip also!! You'll be home soon - to your loving husband and your sweetP!! It's all good!!

((((((Sadly))))))) I'm so sorry these recent days have been more difficult, but I'm glad you will be home to H, sweetP (and us) soon! Hang in there.

Oh, found out one of my old bosses, who retired shortly after I left my last job, is in India right now. Made me think of you!

(((((Sadly)))))
Thinking of you....
seablue