Mad T

keinsMember

Hello,

I've got some doubts as for my therapist, who's about 20 or 25 years older than me (I'm a 24 aged guy). She's a pretty lady, I find myself quite comfortable, love her very much and she knows.
We've already talked about "transference" and "countertransference". She told me she's very affectionate to me and having a particular relationship with me, has demonstrated her love in several occasions.
We agreed to meet each other after therapy ends (here we don't have to wait 2 years), but I don't believe to have done well asking her ; I feel like our relationship has been thrown in a forbidden area, even if we're keeping up and I'm improving the same, as she confirms.
Said this, I want to recount my confusion about our "touch". Firstly, I hugged her after a sorrowful session, then other 3 or 4 times the following meetings, for my solitude. Then, once she refused me, explaining that she felt kinda sensuality in this act, because had been hugging me in order to help me becoming an adult (do you hug someone just to help em in their growth?!? so, in her point of view, I've suddenly turned into a "man"...) and has always rejected hugs with any client, girls' too (also with bigger problems). She couldn't understand herself why this sort of touch with me. In my mind I thought :"You hug EVERY client, otherwise you don't touch anyone, without specifying!"; just accepted the situation, without complaining too much. What's more, talking about girls, she told me I know how to flatter, since I can open myself

. Some time ago, she recommended me another therapist, possibily male. In the first day she firmly affirmed that there's no difference between a female and a male psychologist; later, claimed the contrary! I perceived her a little contraddictory, also in other cases.
Honestly, I always manage to open my thoughts to her, have the same purpose to improve my mind, I don't realize her reasons to change, as she's not very clear. I don't see any roadblock. Probably I'm wrong, but it all sounds like she feels too close or attracted to me . We both are conscious that I'm so not dependent on her, therefore this can't be the motive.

"The topic of change" has vanished and we're going on, but, the facts of "meeting again" and "weird way of hugging me", smell like a sort of boundary violation or muddling up our relationship, dont em?

7/6/142:06 PM

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longroadMember

Hi Keins,

Thanks for sharing your story. I've learned recently some information regarding transference. It is vital for the T to set strict boundaries in a situation where transference can occur. In my opinion it was inappropriate that she stated that she was experiencing some "sensuality" when she hugged you. She probably was, but she should have kept that to herself and adjusted or enforced her boundaries.

I suspect it felt good and perhaps was a little flattering to you when she agreed to "meet each other" after your therapy is completed. Do you know what she had in mind? friendship? something more? I know you mentioned that you have no 2yr rule where you are but I would be very careful . Friendship is one thing (but with the 20-25yr difference it seems suspicious). But if it were to entail a romantic relationship then that would raise a huge RED FLAG for me. Besides the age difference there is a large difference in the balance of power. She knows most everything about you. Your triggers, weaknesses, vulnerabilities. It would be both morally and ethically irresponsible of her to engage in such a relationship. Even if we desire it.

It's just my opinion but you should consider discussing this in detail with her. Or if you're just not comfortable enough to do so consider perhaps getting another T. Take care.

LongRoad

7/6/144:04 PM

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jungandrestlessMember

Hi Keins-

I agree with LongRoad. Therapists need to keep intact boundaries, especially when in it comes to expressing their own needs. The therapy is about you and by her bringing in her own sensuality needs into your relationship it is very confusing. There is a power differential in the therapeutic relationship and clear ethical standards in place for your protection. It sounds as if your T might need to consult her own supervisor for help dealing with her own feelings. A T's feelings CAN harm a client in devastating ways, and the fact that she implied you could take your relationship beyond the therapeutic setting is a warning sign. I've been there and believe me, this usually does not end well. The power never balances out.

I am dealing with something very similar in my own therapy and have been crushed by a therapist not keeping boundaries. For 2 years my therapist told me she loved me and treated me as if I was special. She abruptly terminated me in email.

Please be cautious. This is your heart and your life that you are placing in her hands. For your protection, consulting another therapist might be the best option. Leaving is not easy. I understand that. I didn't leave and now I am nursing the wounds of my childhood that have been activated and I am struggling with retrauma. Therapists sometimes harm their clients. They do make mistakes. I was a little too naive in thinking that she knew what she was doing.

Please take care.

7/6/147:22 PM

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keinsMember

Hum, so you 2 disagree about this kind of "adventure". But let's say she, SILENTLY, only meant to meet each other in her room, where she works? How about this? Thank you for suggesting me!

7/7/1412:57 AM

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evaMember

No it's not ok.

Regardless if whether or not she means you will 'be friends' after y finish therapy or she means you will have a sexual relationship - I think she has violated the boundaries and I do NOT see how your therapy with her can be in any way effective, since she said that after therapy you could be in contact / have an ongoing relationship.

I feel she's crossed the line and to stay with her, you will end up being very very hurt.

There is and always will be a major power inbalance - and that is why it cannot work with relationships outside therapy.

In saying she wants that with you, she is putting HER needs before yours.

You're in therapy to HELP YOURSELF - not to find a friend.

7/7/141:49 AM

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keinsMember

I see...

It might seem like justifying her, but I guess that she did that just to make me feel the presence of a person I can rely on, because of my omnipresent solitude

. I don't know, it's just a hypothesis of mine, I may be wrong. It's interesting, instead, when she had evidenced our transference/countertransference as "mummy/son" (I hope to be clear) and, meanwhile and after those events, underlined that I've become a man and not a "puppy/boy" to nurse any longer

In my opinion, anyone can change their minds, but her quickness between two sessions, makes me reflect.

(P.S. Not to be arrogant, but I'm often said to be a handsome and very mature guy by various people, perhaps she might have had a crush on me ... but should study it with her therapist. Anyway it sounds quite unlikely, because the enormous difference of age and her wedding ring. I'd be sorry if I appeared self-over confident)

I'm going to talk to her again, once again; do you definitely think she's damaging me?

7/7/142:14 AM

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jungandrestlessMember

It's hard to say if she's damaging you without being in that room. But, with what you've shared, it sounds as if she's let some of her countertransference enter into the therapeutic safe space. Can that be damaging to a therapy client? Absolutely. The therapy relationship is about your needs being met, not hers. So, anytime she places her needs/interests into that room is a concern.

Age, sex, sexual orientation, relationship status, attractiveness, all do not seem to play a part in the transference/countertransference capabilities of the therapeutic relationship. We are all very human, so it's natural to be warmly connected to another individual that we share such a close, intimate relationship with. It's expected that the client will have strong reactions to the therapist, but when it comes to the therapists strong reactions, it is SOLELY their responsibility to take their feelings to their own therapist to avoid burdening the client.

I have seen firsthand the damage that can come from this. You mentioned you were isolated. I can relate. I have felt that too, and it made me so much more incredibly vulnerable to therapeutic abuse. It's healthy to have high self regard, self esteem. I once did, until my therapist abandoned me after empty promises. Now I cannot even see my worth/value. It's devastating.

I caution you to be weary of a situation like this; seek professional help from a therapist who can give you an outside, objective viewpoint.

7/7/1410:52 AM

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keinsMember

I suspect that, if I ask her straight out her reasons for that behavior with me, she won't admit to have committed a mistake. By the way, Jungland, I'm glad to notice you don't condemn my T, otherwise I'd feel a bit guilty. Your opinion is different from the others'.

However, I absolutely don't agree with your opinion about transference and countertransference. My T herself recently stated that, if she were a male, the complete relationship between us would be completely different. Trans/C-Trans may be mummy, friendly, erotic ... and so on; it depends on the conditions you've said (such as age, sex, sex-appeal and so on).

I'll let you all guys know anything further. I've understood to be aware of myself, but should I mention to her I'm going to seek another T in order to recount my story?

Thanks a lot for your help!

7/7/1411:48 AM

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jungandrestlessMember

I think I might not have been clear in what I meant. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with the various factors activating transference. I think I was trying to say that transference WILL be activated in any therapeutic relationship; as it's in the nature of the process. It definitely can take on multiple and completely unique forms depending on the therapist/client dynamic of that particular relationship. For me, my therapist was an older woman who triggered my mom issues. I do think that a male therapist would trigger those issues, but it might come forth in an entirely different experience of transference.

I think I was trying to validate your feelings of transference and let you know that it's very natural to feel these feelings, and it is a very natural human response for your therapist to feel, too. BUT, the main issue is what she does with her feelings. I hope that makes sense.

You may want to ask her questions, have a very clear discussion with her about your concerns. See how she responds; it's quite possible she will be able to better explain to you what is occurring so you can make an informed decision on seeking therapy elsewhere.

I have personally never done a consultation with another therapist while being in therapy, so I am going to leave that advice to the others who have.

7/7/141:09 PM

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keinsMember

I've had a discussion with her about my concerns in therapy. She's adjusted her borderlines a bit, as she meant that she's available to meet each other in her room.

Regarding "meeting outside", she's doubtful, because tried it some years ago with a female client, but didn't go so well; and up to her, it was even boring, since both my T and that woman had kids with them. In fact, she told me that she would be happier to hang out with me, because I'm a guy.

It might appear impolite of her, but she considered to let some months (or one year) pass, in order to meet again, because wants me to walk my life on my own; I admit that I now feel much more comfortable. However, I'm still curious to listen to your opinions

what about you?