Liese - I wish I had something to add here...but...nope.

Nada.

me neither ...but I'm trying my hardest to be the best one I can be to my children

Sorry I have nothing to say here. Our relationship was never close but it took therapy to realize just how bad it was.

I often wonder how it would have been to have a mother who was interested and not abusive. Like others here, I am breaking the cycle and trying to be a good mother to my son.

TN

(((BG)))(((DRAGGERS))))((((STARFISH)))((((TN))))



I was hoping someone here would have had a nice relationship with their mother. Very sad, isn't it?

I'll add that my relationship with my mother was, and is, okay. It's not completely healthy, but it's got some good aspects, and it's changed since I've started to learn to put up my own boundaries. She likes to hear from me, which seems nice sometimes. And I know she tries hard to be a good mom to me - but she definitely has her blind spots, and it's been harmful to our relationship. And the biggest blind spot is my father, which is so damaging because it hurts that she can't really *see* him, you know? But she tries hard, and I know she loves me, and I am lucky to have her.

(((Hugs)))) to you all.

(((Liese)))

sorry, wish I could help but my relationship
with my mum has always been and still is
pretty non existant. Sorry.

Sorry Liese - I have nothing positive to say either!!! When you read our histories it is clear that many/even most of us have been badly damaged by our mothers, one way or another!! Incredibly sad!! It's also uplifting how all of you who are mothers strive to be the best possible mothers to your own children!!

Take care (((all)))

I, too, think it's so telling that so many of us didn't/don't have good relationships with our mothers.

Having children was the biggest motivator for me to go into therapy...like so many others...to break the cycle!

Thinking about friends who DO have good maternal relationships, I'm realizing that none of them have been in therapy. They've been able to navigate the rocky bits of life without it.

Coincidence? I think not!!

((hugs above))


Despite the awful parts there have been moments in there that I cherish and sometimes a fantasy that I cling to. The relationship I do have is one from a distance with limited contact, one that I'm learning to make safe for me and, I've learned in my work in therapy (especially recently) that that IS the good relationship, for both of us. At least according to my Ts.

As far as things we have shared: creativity, a sense of adventure, silliness, thoughtfulness, nature, bravery, curiosity. The memories/moments there are special. It isn't consistent enough to bar what I've had to do, what i'm trying to do to make the relationship "good".

((((KASHLEY))))

It was nice to hear that you have a decent relationship with your Mom and that you appreciate her. Do you think you have a deep emotional connection with her? Is that what makes it special?

((((AV))))

Wish it was different for you.


((((MORGS))))

So scary how important the mother is. Scares me because I am a mother. If you (or anyone) had one piece of advice for me as a mother, what would it be? To really listen? To be able to say "I'm sorry I hurt you"? To take an active interest in their lives?


((((BG))))

I have one friend who has a good relationship with her kids but something is dysfunctional there. I think she lives vicariously through them but she relates well to them. Her kids love her. She cherishes who they are for their individuality so maybe it's not so bad that she is living a little vicariously through them.


((((CAT))))

So nice (and encouraging) to hear that you might be finding a balance there in your relationship with your Mom. It's great that you have so many positive things in common. And also great that you do have memories you cherish despite all the bad stuff.

To everyone. I was hoping there would be more decent relationships out there but I guess we are all here for a reason and it isn't because we had good mothers.

I've had to let go of the hope that my mother and I will ever be close or that we'd ever have a meaningful relationship or even a meaningful moment together. But the good news is that it clears the way for me to develop nice relationships with other people instead of letting that dysfunctional relationship take up too much space in my life. And, like BG, completely and totally motivated me to get into therapy. The stakes are too high.

good question, Liese. i have to say that in general, mom wasn't there. there has always been a great mis-understanding between us. she could never be my friend simply because she is so close-minded and "right" all the time and has no time or room for others' opinions. they are automaticaly obsolete.

i do have to say, however, that she did teach me things that i value to this day. she taught me how to garden, which i adore to this day. both the folks taught me appreciation for nature. i view life as a miracle and i believe that view is a gift thay they handed down to me. although i am currently quite pissed at god, i believe in god as a result of my parents' teachings (sorry if any of this is not pc, i'm just being true to myself), and i believe that belief is a strength. the folks strove to make the world a better place, and mom still is. they tried to make the world a better place (granted, by their values), but they did it at the expense of their own children. things happened that shouldn't have happened while they were gone making the world a better place. i do have to say that in spite of her absence, she did her best like most of us do. i have to forgive. i love her, but not so much ... it's a work in progress ......

I would give anything to have something positive to say. I never knew my real mom, my foster care records indicate I found her when I was about three years old when she overdosed. Never had a true mother figure.

It's interesting how having someone so incredibly important can shape you and not having this important someone can shape you as well.

quote:

If you (or anyone) had one piece of advice for me as a mother, what would it be? To really listen? To be able to say "I'm sorry I hurt you"? To take an active interest in their lives?

Liese... I would say what is important is time and interest and also consistency. Being able to listen and empathize is also important.

TN

I’ve been staring at the screen a long time, trying to come up with an answer to this seemingly simple question. I would say that on the whole, I have a good relationship with my mother. We’ve never had a fight. It is never stressful being around her; we enjoy each other’s company. We are both introverted, and are happy sitting around the kitchen table all morning, drinking coffee and working on a crossword puzzle together. She has always been supportive of my choices in life; one of the best gifts she has given me is the knowledge that she truly only wants me to be happy. Nothing I do is going to disappoint her if it is true to myself. I can’t remember a time when she has criticized me. I know she loves me deeply.

But, we aren’t close. We average one phone call every 2 months or so. I visit once or twice a year. We hardly ever talk about anything personal. Last month, though, I visited her and I actually initiated a really long conversation that was intensely personal. It was so hard to make myself start talking, but I’m really glad I did. I learned so much about her and her childhood and about her marriage to my father (they divorced when I was 2). I was able to use my hospitalization in college (which she knew about but has never brought up in the almost 15 years since it happened) as a way to lead into talking about some of the abuse in my childhood. It was really hard to talk about it and even harder to see her face as she realized that she hadn’t protected me.

Liese- It seems wrong to be giving advice since I don’t have kids, but I would say: show your children through your words and actions that you love them, that you enjoy being around them, that what they think and feel has value to you.

((((CD))))

quote:

she is so close-minded and "right" all the time and has no time or room for others' opinions. they are automaticaly obsolete.

That sounds very familiar. Are you talking about my mother? LOL! Even though you are wrestling with a lot of things right now, you are still able to find things to appreciate about your Mom and both your parents. I'm sorry they were gone a lot. Who took care of you when they were gone?

((((TAS))))

quote:

It's interesting how having someone so incredibly important can shape you and not having this important someone can shape you as well.

I can't even imagine what it must have been like to grow up without a mother. Feelings of attachment must be very scary. I'm sorry if it's hard to hear us all complain.



(((TN)))

Great advice. Thanks.

(((NANNABEE)))

You might not be a parent but you are/were a child so I think you are more than qualified to give advice. And that was great advice too.

It sounds like your relationship with your Mom has hope. It sounds like she is open to you, open to sharing and empathic. Maybe your hospitalization was a great big wedge in between the two of you but now that it's out in the open, that gap can begin to close. So brave of you to bring it up. Keep chipping away at it and you will get there.

to all.

Liese,

My best advice: build a real relationship with your kids. Listen to them. Enjoy them.

And keep working on your own crap!

Hey Liese,

I don't know how to really answer this without writing a whole book

You see for most of my life I thought that I had a wonderful mother. I loved her with all my heart. I could see when she was stressed and I would always take up that stress by helping out. I could talk to her about almost anything. I wouldn't say we were friends, because we were far more than that. I respected her for all the things she put up with related to my father. I saw how she tried to protect us. I saw how much she sacrificed herself, both in material goods and as a person. She has a heart that is so compassionate, and the depth of conversations that we have always had, have taught me a lot through the years. In truth I really could talk to her about my problems and the experiences I had (CSA), but I also don't want to hurt her. It would kill me, to see her take on my hurts and blame herself in any way. You see there were things she did that were wrong - and I know that they weren't intentional.

So what did/do I love about her? I love the way that she allows me to talk. I love the way she has taught me not to judge a book by its cover. I love the way she hugs. I love the way we can talk about nothing and yet it still seems like we talked about everything. I love her for always forgiving me for the many mistakes I have made along the way. I love her for never digging up old bones. I love that she told me she is proud of me, maybe I wish she told me that when I was younger. I love that she showed me how to care for a mother, by allowing me to see how she cared for her own mother. I love that she showed me how to connect to people even if I chose not to do so because of my own trust issues, and this underlying feeling that I couldn't talk about those things that happened. The independence part that she taught me has in some ways added to me being a strong person, and in other ways has added to me always feeling like I have to do things alone. To be honest I'm still figuring out all the reasons and complexities as to why I don't connect to all people, and why I feel I can only partially connect to others. The reasons I have come up with are extremely complicated and a lot of it has to do with expectations and trust, and certainly doesn't have everything to do with my mother. If anything I am more balanced because of her. If it weren't for her, I have no doubt I would have suffered a lot more. So no, she was not perfect, but nor am I, and nor will I ever be. She tried her best with what she knew and with what her circumstances allowed, and I do love her with all my heart.

I am really sorry for the many others who haven't experienced those feelings with their mothers. I only hope you are able to break the cycle and be that valued mother to your own children.

B2W

Hey B2W,


Thanks for sharing. It's nice to know that there are decent mother/daughter relationships out there. It really touched me to read about all the things you love about her. It sounds like your Mom really respects who you are and respects your boundaries. She doesn't appear to be very egocentric. It sounds like it's very easy to just be with her. In short, she sounds like a lovely person.

Maybe someday, when you are ready, you will be able to open up to her about what you went through.

Oy. Mothers. How to begin to explain.

I adore my mother. I'm devoted to her, I idealize her, think she's wonderful, would do anything for her. Really.

And to some extent, that's the whole problem. We've been so close, so enmeshed, that I haven't been able to individuate properly. Up until a couple years ago, I hardly had any conception of myself outside of my relationship with her. I can't easily shake the notion that I'm emotionally responsible for her, that she needs me, and that filling those needs is pretty much my purpose in life.

So between one thing and another I start therapy and what happens? Over the top maternal transference with T. I guess the idea is this time around I'll be able to get things right and learn the relationship lessons I need to. As T announced one time when I was musing on the parallels, "Well, you're not going to get co-dependent with me!" I took that as comforting rather than rejecting, which I believe was how it was meant.

So yeah. Mom. We are close and we enjoy doing many things together. We read a lot of the same books and discuss them (she's very bright, and insightful about everything except our relationship, lol), we watch movies together, play with my kids, gossip about our acquaintances, help out in each other's kitchens, criticize each other liberally and bicker almost constantly, in good Sicilian fashion. I love her, that's for sure, but she makes me mad. I'm not always sure how much she cares about me as me, and not as the little companion she fashioned for herself. Then I feel guilty for being so bitter and ungrateful in my heart.

((((Blu)))

How horrendous that your mother died the day after your 18th birthday.

quote:

FWIW, I believe that you can still get to know someone even after they have passed.

That was so touching. And I agree with you wholeheartedly about getting to know someone even after they have passed. It's so nice that you have a lot of her artwork in your home and you can keep her close to you that way.

(((HELD))))

The description of the relationship with your mother was very beautiful. Since she is smart, maybe she would understand the co-dependency issues if you talked to her about them or gave her a book to read. My mother wouldn't get it but yours might. It sounds like there are so many wonderful things about your relationship with her that maybe many aspects of your relationship with her can survive and/or even thrive during and/or after the separation/individuation process.

((((AG))))

It's hard to know how to respond because it was such a touching but painful description of the relationship between you and your Mom. And although I know how painful it must have been to realize how alone you were, it was hard not to admire your resilience and strength for doing all the things you did by yourself. What you did was mind-blowing.

It made me hurt when I read that your Mom did not acknowledge your MIL's death in any way shape or form. My first thought was, why do you have to let it go? Why not tell her how much it hurt you? You are not being oversensitive there. IMO, the lack of response on your mother's part was incredibly hurtful and probably very representative of the way she reacted to your hurts and losses growing up. Even if she doesn't seem to recognize her responsibility there, it could be incredibly healing for you to unload that anger directly to her. Put it squarely there where it belongs instead of carrying it around with you. IDK, of course, you have to decide what's best for you but why let it go?

((((BLT)))

It was painful too to read about your relationship with your Mom. I have a friend who was in a similar situation. The Mom used her as a confidant re: the Mom's relationship with the Dad and turned my friend against her Dad. It did not turn out well. It's such a burden for a child to carry and so incredibly unfair to take away that attachment figure.

quote:

Therefore, I had the appearance of being close to him when in fact I deeply mistrusted him and was secretly angry at him

That was a huge double role to have had to pull off as a child. Like living a dual life. It must have been very confusing.

quote:

which was all about me having to comfort and support her for all the wrongs other people did to her

That reminded me of my Mom. It gets to be pretty burdensome after a while, doesn't it?

It's great you can find things to appreciate about your Mom. I'm still looking. She WAS good at things like acknowledging birthdays and holidays. She probably made me chicken soup when I was sick but for some reason I only feel resentment towards her. I wish I could appreciate those things about her like you do.

((((AG))))((((BLT)))) Thank you both for sharing. In thinking about all the different relationships people shared, there are so many variations. Each mother-daughter relationship described is as different as each of us is.

Hi Liese...I saw this thread tonight and thought I'd try, leave a few words. Soooo complicated. When I was young, My mom is a person who loved and needed me almost like a child needs her mom. I was the protector of her shattered ego. I made her feel good about herself. She is not capable of really loving me or caring for me. She is just happy if she knows she doesn't have to worry about my somewhat bothersome existence- that I'm reasonably happy so she doesn't need to feel guilt or something. . She is always thrilled to hear from me, seemingly but talks about things like washing her hair, etc. It's confusing.

Other times She can be so very normal. For years I tried to figure out what the "problem" was but it's always eluded me, and I felt bad, like I am the problem, not her- she's the normal one. I finally came to realize that my mom has always functioned for me in the same way that a distant, (but likable) aunt does for some people. That's the best way that I can describe it. She did not come to my wedding, though I sent her a plane ticket. She "possessed" me I think, growing up. I felt very much imprisoned growing up, but I could never say that things were horrible or anything like that. Just a lonely, gnawing paranoia, a great fear of relationships that kept me almost entirely insulated and isolated from others for most of my life. I've come to realize that in keeping me from having normal relationships with others, kept my mom safe from having to be in relationship with anyone. A lot of this was based around faulty understanding of her religion.

We don't talk much now- she just isn't that interested in me or in my life, beyond a passing interest (like the distant auntie thing) I think I've always been "out of sight out of mind" for her. It's hard to classify the relationship, since there just isn't much of a relationship there anymore, now that I am no longer of use as a means of socialization or ego boost, maybe, for her.
It makes me deeply sad, and so, so jealous when I see people whose moms really love them, and want to be there for there kids and grandkids.

But... I have to accept it in a healthier way than I've been doing- just not sure how, since everything is so "ok" that approaching anything like a normal conversation about my foo, or relationship with her would just be like entering the twilight zone at this point. There is no choice but to pretend all is ok. I get very fatigued and even less motivated to do anything at all when I am with her.! It reminds me a lot of Ag's mom. in ways.

My main focus in parenting seems to be to attempt appreciate your kids as the unique individuals that they are, and try never to mkae them extensions of yourself, or expect them to heal your wounds by making you proud. Accept their warts and pains and carry them alongside of them, while teaching solutions that are positive to problems...never let them embrace negativity? Something like that.

IDK...it's a tough one. It's hard to truly accept things the way they are, for me, I guess. The main thing I want is to be able to truly accept my kids as the people they are.
I wish you all the best in your parenting...you seem a very caring mom, to me!

Hug,

Beebs

((((AG))))

quote:

Sometimes I think the letting it go is about protecting myself as I know that I will not get the response I wish from my mother and no matter how aware I am of that happening, it can still hurt.

Yes, I understand this completely. My mother would never in a million years give me the response I want and so I don't even see the point of trying. I just don't think our relationship could improve.

quote:

It's a delicate balance seeing her in her humanity, holding on to the good and also honoring my legitimate feelings of anger and hurt about the stuff that went wrong.

Yes, this is so true.

quote:

It is my fervent prayer that I have reduced that legacy with my children. As I was, they will be better mother's than theirs was.

I am sure they will be.

((((BB))))

quote:

When I was young, My mom is a person who loved and needed me almost like a child needs her mom. I was the protector of her shattered ego. I made her feel good about herself.

Oh, BB, that was my brother's role. Those are hard shoes to fill.

quote:

She did not come to my wedding, though I sent her a plane ticket.

BB, I'm so sorry. That must have been very painful to deal with.

quote:

It makes me deeply sad, and so, so jealous when I see people whose moms really love them, and want to be there for there kids and grandkids.

I understand this. As much as we know it's about them and their shortcomings, nothing can fill that hole.

quote:

My main focus in parenting seems to be to attempt appreciate your kids as the unique individuals that they are, and try never to mkae them extensions of yourself, or expect them to heal your wounds by making you proud. Accept their warts and pains and carry them alongside of them, while teaching solutions that are positive to problems...never let them embrace negativity?

BB, that sounds like really solid advice.

(((Beebs))) It broke my heart to read what you wrote, I am as comforted by your understanding as I am sad that you understand so well. Thank you.

Aglet

s to all who struggle with mother-related stuff. I've been reading and moved by what people have shared and wondering if I dare share something of me...

I struggle with the word mother, perhaps because I was never allowed to call my mother anything but her first name. It was a secret that she had a daughter. I knew she was my mother and held onto that as I never knew who my father was. But my mother wasn't allowed to look after me, she had psychotic depression and although I longed to stay with her, she was sent away. She resented me and my existence mostly but all I wanted to know was that she loved me.
I still don't know as she died suddenly when I was 20. And because nobody admitted she had a daughter and because I'd shut down to her when she left me, I never said goodbye.
It made me incredibly self reliant, self sufficient and independent. But it also left me craving for a parent figure and to find a secure attachment with my therapist has been the most painful thing I've ever done, yet the most amazing.
And I thought perhaps being a mother myself would enable me to know something of the bond between parent and child, but I was terrified of becoming my mother...
It's such a complicated relationship to explore, there are so many societal expectations about being a child, being a parent and I struggle with feeling excluded from all those experiences through an accident of birth. When I see mothers and children I want to be the mother and the child and it's really hard not to slip into that place of longing.
I do remind myself that I am often longing for that ideal, stereotypical mother-daughter relationship, not the warts and all ones that exist in the real world!
I don't think I've answered your original question at all, Liese, but it's been a bit of a personal challenge to admit to having a mother at all! This therapy stuff must be working...!

xxx Iris

quote:

When I see mothers and children I want to be the mother and the child and it's really hard not to slip into that place of longing

((( iris )))

((((IRIS))))

I'm so sorry about the situation surrounding your birth and the problems your mother had. It sounded incredibly painful and I think you are amazing for surviving and making life better for yourself. It couldn't have been easy.

One of the hardest things I've had to do is come to terms with what I don't have compared to what other people have and that includes not really having a family. I have a mother, sister and brother but for different reasons, they are not sources of joy or support for me. Only burden and pain. It's been hard to accept that but I really need to focus on my children and building a life for me and for them and letting go of things I thought I wanted. I am still working on the acceptance part. (And the focusing part too!)

quote:

I do remind myself that I am often longing for that ideal, stereotypical mother-daughter relationship, not the warts and all ones that exist in the real world!

Iris, me too. Maybe it doesn't really exist?

((((CD)))