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I wasn't quite sure where this topic belonged but I think this might be the type of thing I would discuss with a friend over coffee. It is indirectly related to therapy because therapy is helping me, I think, to see my mother and brother as they truly are.

I need help analyzing what went on with a fight between my brother and childhood best friend's mother. My mother is sticking up for my brother and of course, she wants me to side with her/them. Sorry if it's long. I'll try to condense it.

Eve, the mother of my childhood friend, still lives across the street from my mother and brother. Eve doesn't care about her grass. She can't cut it herself but relies most of the time on her children and grandchildren to do it for her. She probably doesn't water it either or treat it with weed killer.

Apparently she had tried a lawn service that my mother uses??? (zoned out during this part of the story) but then it was overgrown again.

So here comes the fight. My brother went to Eve to politely tell her that she doesn't HAVE to use THAT lawn service. She can use any lawn service she wants to use. Eve replied that she doesn't want to use a lawn service. She wants her grandchildren to cut her grass. My brother then told Eve, "I've heard that story before." I think at that point, Eve said, "up yours". Then my brother starts f youing her. I saw Eve at a party over the weekend and she told me that my brother has been giving her the finger every time he has seen her since then.

My mother's version is that my brother was just trying to be helpful. And, oh my, she's never heard such foul language come out of anyone's mouth. (I guess she didn't hear what came out of my brother's mouth.) My mother also said Eve's house is the only house on the block that doesn't have a nice lawn. And Eve has a lot of money and could afford a lawn service.

From where I am sitting, Eve's lawn wasn't bothering Eve. It was bothering my mother and brother and they were trying to get her to use a lawn service. This lawn thing is not really an issue I can relate to. My lawn looks like crap every year by the end of the summer because we get a lot of sun and I just can't seem to control the crab grass. All of my neighbors take reasonably good care of their lawns.

I told my mother that I'd be put out if one of my neighbors came over to complain to me about my lawn. And that, well, maybe it sounded nice that my brother told Eve that she didn't have to use a particular lawn service but what was he really saying? "I don't like the way you keep your grass."

So I see huge lack of boundary issues going on here with my brother and my mother. Am I analyzing this correctly? Or am I biased because I don't need my lawn to be perfect?

I'm sorry if this is really mundane. And I hope that I haven't offended anyone who does care about their neighbor's lawns. Not my intention. It's just that I have bought into my mother's version of things for so long and I'm just starting to see the cracks (took me long enough) in her veneer, her lack of boundaries, her need to control, the need to keep up appearances, etc. etc. It's really such a crack up because my brother treats her and other family members like sh*t but it's all okay because their lawn looks nice.
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quote:
So I see huge lack of boundary issues going on here with my brother and my mother. Am I analyzing this correctly? Or am I biased because I don't need my lawn to be perfect?


Hi Liese,
I have to say I was chuckling and/or smiling a lot of the way through this post. Not at you! But just at the fact that neighborly irritations can be so petty yet feel so dramatic when you are caught up in them. I guess I have some *slight* sympathy for your mom and brother here, because I am one of those people who wishes my neighbors would take better care of their yards. As I read this I was picturing myself stomping across the street, chewing them out for not using a lawn service, complete with foul language and all. lol, not going to happen but the evil side of me enjoyed the daydream. Big Grin

I do think this is a boundary issue. . . literally. I mean, in neighborhoods everyone has to keep in mind that their property boundary *ends* where someone else's begins. So, to my way of thinking, I would have no right to complain to my neighbors about their yards. On the other hand, I did recently have a neighborhood altercation where I had to assert myself and I believe I was in the right. Our neighbors dog was constantly getting in our yard, and since he leaves mess and (more disturbingly) scares my daughter, well, I protested. Did not use any foul language, though. Smiler But I think in this case, they were the ones not respecting a boundary, ie, our property line over which their dog should not be straying, at least not frequently and as a matter of course.

But back to the lawn issue. . . I think in some neighborhoods there is a kind of association or whatever in place with rules about lawn upkeep and such, ie the grass isn't supposed to be more than a foot tall or whatever. I suppose in that case it wouldn't be a boundary violation to remind someone of the rules, although they would probably be annoyed, lol.

Just some of my thoughts. I can see why you'd feel frustrated with your mother, especially if this is emblematic of her lack of boundaries with you and others in general.
((((HIC))))((((AG))))

Thanks for your opinions on the subject. HIC, thanks for weighing in. I knew there had to be someone out there who cared more about their lawn than I do. Big Grin I really do slave over my lawn but with very little success. I seed and weed in the spring, cut and water all summer long and seed in the fall but just can't get the hang of it for some reason. I can't afford a lawn service. (Just want to let you know that I'm watering my lawn as we speak.)

My Mom's neighborhood does not have a neighborhood association or neighborhood agreement. It's more or less a middle-class mixed neighborhood. Some professionals. Some blue collar. Probably more blue collar at this point and becoming more ethnically diverse as time goes on.

AG, I just want to clarify what you meant with the following:

quote:
Not their yard, not their problem as long as it meets the minimum standards.


Would keeping up only be expected if my Mom lived in a neighborhood with a neighborhood agreement? If it really bothered my brother that much, imagine how much good will he could spread if he chose to cut her lawn for her, especially in light of the fact that she walks with a cane and lives alone? Her front lawn might be 50 feet by 30 feet. We're not talking about a large area for anyone to mow.

quote:
I just wanted to say I'm sorry from those of us who do not keep up. Please know that some of us really do worry about it and feel bad. I also wanted to say that I think you were in the right. It's your property which means someone else's animal should not be in your yard, making messes and scaring your children.


AG, I know you meant it in all seriousness but it gave me a smile to read it. And, HIC, I agree with AG about the animal in your yard and the boundary stuff.


quote:
The reason we have landscaping is our neighbor across the street had his guy write up an estimate and drop it off.

He handled it beautifully, as he was really lovely and offered to help.


AG, I think you handled yourself beautifully as well. You should give yourself some credit here because I am not so sure I would have been as willing to actually spend the money on the landscaping at someone else's request. However, I do not live in the type of neighborhood where people have the money to take care of their lawns in any kind of landscaped manner. Nor does my Mom. I suppose if I had the money to buy a house in that type of neighborhood, it would mean that I would accept the culture of the neighborhood as well and all the stuff that comes with it, including manicuring my lawn. Ugggggghhhhhhh. If only that was my biggest problem!
((DAGGERS)))

Thanks for weighing in. Yes, people do take their lawns quite seriously here Big Grin but you lightened it all up:

quote:
and im not talking designer garden furniture either!


There is a house around the corner from me that has quite a few things stored around the property: a old boat, a rusty engine. All sorts of things. From what I understand, someone did call the authorities on those people Eeker and they were told to clean it up. Eeker Eeker

I didn't mean to offend anyone by the characterization of my mother's neighborhood. It doesn't really matter who lives there. The important thing, I think, was that there wasn't a neighborhood association or agreement re: lawn maintenance.
btw, everyone, I want to clarify that my yard is far from magazine worthy, lest I may have inadvertently given that impression. Smiler There's some light landscaping that we did ourselves, and we try to keep the grass neatly trimmed and the flowers watered. That's about it.

The neighbors I was complaining about in passing are the sort with foot tall weeds overrunning the garden beds and various pieces of discarded junk in their front yards. Big Grin

Anyway, this thread is cracking me up. Loved your post, draggers.
((((HELD))))

quote:
btw, everyone, I want to clarify that my yard is far from magazine worthy, lest I may have inadvertently given that impression.


LOL!!! By the same token, I don't want to inadvertently give the impression that my yard is a dump. My property is small, measuring in at a measly .15 acre. On that small parcel, I've managed to plant a Japanese Maple, a Birch, 2 flowering cherry trees, 5 pine trees, a type of cedar tree and a flowering peach tree that also produces some really great peaches. (I ordered an almond tree but it turned out to be a peach tree. They are cousins.)

In the bush department, I've planted two variegated willows and a weigala. I'm sure I've planted some other bushes. I just can't think of their names right now. In the flower department, I've planted Russian Sage, a bunch of rose bushes, coreopsis, rose campion, columbine, purple cone flower, bleeding hearts. Oh gosh, I could go on and on. I LOVE my garden. I just have trouble in the grass department. Big Grin

Ugggggghhhhhhh, this would all be funny if it wasn't my family. Frowner But it is what it is, right?
quote:
If you have time to worry about something like that or care, your life is obviously not so bad.


Well, yeah. But if someone else's messy yard neighboring yours is bad enough, it could drag down the perceived value of your property in the eyes of potential buyers in future. This is what mostly bothers me about my neighbor's yard, aesthetics aside. Something worth worrying about in today's real estate market. But, I guess that too is a first world problem. Smiler

P.S. sorry for the slight thread hi-jack here!
(((BLT))))

Thanks for the link. That was great!

(((HELD)))

Just want you to know that I understand that a nicely kept yard is important. I have a confession. I used to think snide thoughts about my neighbor down the street who didn't take such great care of her lawn. Eeker But I never would have said anything to her.

It reminds me a bit of what we were talking about on another thread, that sometimes people's problems are more apparent because they carry the scars on the outside. For instance, it's easier to tell when I'm stressed because I tend to gain weight. Other people *seem* more perfect but carry their scars on the inside. My sister and her H had a beautifully landscaped house but they have more problems than a lot of people I know. Oh, and just look at my brother. He has done so many bad things to mostly my mother. Who the heck is he to criticize someone else's lawn? The ole glass houses story. I suppose with age I've come to finally appreciate that just because people look *perfect* on the outside doesn't necessarily mean they are perfect. But if I was selling my house, you might hear me singing to a different tune.

Gotta go to bed now! I loved reading everyone's opinions and thoughts. Thank you.

quote:
P.S. sorry for the slight thread hi-jack here!


Not to worry. I was following you there.
Hey Liese,

I think there are probably 2 things I'd like to say....

Firstly - You don't live there. You have your own lawn to worry about. You don't have to take sides and while the neighbour says your brother is swearing at her, you don't really know what she has or hasn't said to him in the past or even the present. So I'm not saying your brother is right, but what I am saying is this is a problem between the 2 of them or make that 3 if your mother wants to get involved. You are surely not expected to take sides? Just listen to both sides if you want to, or don't if you don't want to. You are not part of the mafia - just because you are family, doesn't mean you have to join the fight and take sides.

Secondly, as far as lawns go I'm not particularly bothered about mine - it is grass for cr-ps sakes! Maintain it sure, but like BLT says the maintenance of grass is a 1st world problem and there are so many more issues out there. Besides nature likes long grass Smiler Ask a grasshopper. So if I were Eve and some guy - any guy - had to come over to tell me to look after my lawn and then procede to swear at me, I can assure you I would purposefully let it grow longer just to wind them up even more ....but that's just me.

I think that maybe there are just some things you don't need to read into. They just are what they are and they belong to all people. I think all of us have had some arbitory problem with one or other person along the way and I don't think boundaries is really the issue.

My advice - play the political game and stay out of it.

Oh and Liese, don't take any of that the wrong way

B2W
Hey Daggers that was funny about the sofa! Big Grin

Even funnier though...tell you a little story. I moved countries and this country that I stay in now has sofa's everywhere. People leave them in their gardens and even take them to the beach with them!!!!! I am soooo not joking. I even saw one on the roof of a persons house one day. It is not really in my neighbourhood, but the fact is people move their sofas around. I'd never seen anything like it before. Who brings a sofa to the beach - a deck chair yes, but a sofa????

Anyway that was off the topic Big Grin

I wonder what you mother would say about that Liese? Wink

B2W
Hey Liese, I have to admit, when I saw your post the other day - I read the first bit and then thought CONFRONTATION, i can't deal with this post.

But today I took another look and I have laughed OUT LOUD. What a crackup.

Your brother sounds like a bit of a dick. Especially because he is sticking his nose in other people's business ( a no no where I live ) so yes boundaries. He must have a boring life if all he does is harrass little old ladies (that know swear words) to mow their lawn. If he was that bothered he should mow it himself for free.

still smiling about this.

I would love him to try this down here!!!!

Somedays
((((B2W))))

quote:
You are not part of the mafia - just because you are family, doesn't mean you have to join the fight and take sides.


You are so right. LOL! It wasn't just about taking sides though. It was about seeing the situation as it truly is/was. In the past (and the present), my mother expected me to buy into her version of things. It gave me a different perspective, to borrow from Scooby Doo, to see her as a meddling kid. I'm just starting to (very late in life) get a bit of a sense of separation from her and see her as a less than perfect mother and how her issues have impacted my life. I could never really see her as a separate person before. For that matter, I couldn't see most people as separate people.

That was very funny about the sofas. I can't stand carrying a cooler to the beach much less a sofa. I travel light.


(((((SOMEDAYS))))

I'm glad the thread isn't as triggering any more to you. It's great when that happens, isn't it? Sometimes I'll go back and read something and think, "what the heck did I see in there that got me all hot and bothered?"

quote:
Hey Liese, I have to admit, when I saw your post the other day - I read the first bit and then thought CONFRONTATION, i can't deal with this post.


Of course, You've intrigued me here.
Last edited by Attachment Girl
quote:
Just want you to know that I understand that a nicely kept yard is important.


(((Liese))) It never crossed my mind to think that you didn't. Smiler I realized what you were complaining about here was the lack of boundaries and respect your mother/brother are displaying to their neighbors. I just found it personally ironic that I was sympathizing with the villains of the piece because of my own neighborly gripes. Smiler Of course I don't think mom/brother's behavior is in any way okay, though, and I'd never say anything to my neighbors either. Mmm, think I'm being a bit redundant here. . .

I'm sure your yard is lovely! I enjoyed reading about all the trees you've planted. We haven't put in many new trees yet. We've had our place about two years and we planted a fig tree soon after we moved in. It died, though. Frowner However, we also planted a little kumquat tree out front the weekend before my daughter was born. It's been doing splendidly and the kumquats are delicious. Wish they were in season now! Smiler

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