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Warning: Long, detailed post ahead! Big Grin

Well, I finally had my very first crappy session where I left feeling worse than I felt when I arrived. I don't think that has EVER happened in the year I've been in therapy. Frowner I know it's not unusual, but it was a new experience for me. My T always makes sure I am okay before I leave, and she really tried to help me today, but I got triggered during my session and couldn't find my way to a better place, even though my T was trying so hard.

I managed to open up to her today about her comment 3 weeks ago at my last session when I told her I'd seen photos of the inside of her house and she told me that if I drove by her house and came to the front door and knocked she'd invite me in. I told her that I was struggling with boundaries and that that comment had bothered me and asked her why she would say something like that to a patient. She was perplexed that I had been ruminating on that for 3 weeks. She asked me what I would want her to do, be rude? I told her I would expect her to ask me why I was at her house, because I feel like it's not okay for me to be there. I told her I wouldn't come to her house, that that is a professional line I would not cross with her. She said she knows that I wouldn't and that is why she was okay to say what she did. She said she told me that because she wants to help lessen the fear that I have that I am going to do something that is going to freak her out. She knows I am scared of scaring her with my 'freakishness'. She continues to tell me that she is not scared of me or my attachment to her, that the bar is really high because of what she sees in the drug treatment program she works in, and that she doesn't see me as a stalker or anyone she feels the need to fear. She told me I'm a lot more normal than I think I am. Big Grin She wants me to be in charge of the boundaries because she's not going to cross any, but she she wants ME to feel responsible for my own boundaries. She said that I have made these 'rules' for myself that she doesn't know about and that she hasn't made but that I have made, and when I break them I feel so awful and shame myself and then feel the need to disclose my awful behavior and the fact that I've broken these self-created rules. What she was talking about mainly was my internet searching on her. She said she hadn't made the rule that I couldn't search for info about her, that it was ME that created that rule. And that I had told myself that I couldn't break the rule or I was doomed. Then I broke the rule and put myself through hell over it and tormented myself and did the whole spinning/obsessing thing I do about it because I saw myself as 'bad' for having broken my own rules. She said she had no rule about searching the internet about her and that while she applauded me for my honesty (and found it interesting to learn that a patient (and possibly more than just me) would actually take so much interest in finding out so much about her), she didn't think that I had done some terrible thing and broken some law or committed some moral transgression--it was the OCD stuff getting the better of me. She also asked me at one point (at the end of the session) if I wanted her to punish me for all of this. I told her maybe I did, as I think I have expected that all along. At least some sort of negative reaction, not just her being okay with it all. It's been really different to have her acceptance and to hear her tell me that I'm not a freak because I do these things and am seeking connection with her. She understands it and it doesn't scare her. I find that kind of hard to accept sometimes.

Then came the tough stuff. She asked me about the boundary issues with my Physical Therapist neighbor from last year. Frowner She wanted to really find out about the boundaries I felt I had crossed with him. So I had to dig all of that crap up and it was painful. She didn't really see what I had done as a total boundary crossing, maybe a bit in the end, but I have deleted all the emails I sent to him that are the 'proof' of what happened between us. I found myself reading them over and over again, reliving the nightmare of the dissolution of that relationship, so I finally just decided it would be better to just get rid of them all. Bad idea. It would be REALLY helpful now to have them all to look over with my T so she could see the reality of what happened, as my memory of it all has faded enough that it's hard to remember clearly. She asked me how much of the emailing him was impulsive/compulsive. A LOT of it was. Just like a lot of my obsessiveness and the internet searching/sitting outside my T's office window/listening to her voicemessages on my cell phone/looking at photos of her on my hard drive are. When I get feeling insecure about my relationship with her and the fear of abandonment sets in or I just feel needy and know I can't see her for X amount of time, I resort to these obsessive/compulsive behaviors. Unfortunately the only behavior my T knows about is the internet searching. I haven't had the courage to tell her about the rest of it. But now she wants me to do something new to help her/us to look at the OCD stuff so we can see how my mind is working, since she can't exactly read my thoughts Roll Eyes. She has asked me to journal my thoughts each day, especially the ones that concern my relationship with her and the obsessive/spinning stuff that I experience. Rather than act on any thoughts, I'm just supposed to journal whenever I get any impulses or compulsions to do anything, like the behaviors I mentioned above. That is going to be HARD!!! Especially because I don't see her again for another 3 weeks and I left her office feeling disconnected and upset. Frowner The past two sessions I've had to go 3 weeks in between instead of the usual 2 and it's been harder than I thought. I've been relying on her voicemail messages that are saved on my cell phone for comfort, as well as just looking at photos of her on my computer. Dumb that I have those on there. Red Face I wonder what she would think if she knew. Eeker Sometimes this attachment stuff feels so humiliating. Frowner Journaling about my thoughts and feelings about my T, knowing I have to take it all in with me next time and share it with her, is going to be a real challenge for me. I have a super hard time just TALKING to her about my issues. I guess writing is less scary for me, but this sort of thing is scary in and of itself. I guess that's why therapy isn't for the faint of heart, huh? Big Grin Gulp...

Well, one issue down, several more to go. Roll Eyes She asked me after her beeper/timer thingy went off that signals time's up/next patient is in the waiting room, what else was bothering me. Rather she asked me what else I was spinning about/what she had done, hadn't done, etc. Bad timing. I told her it didn't matter. She said, "Yes it does". I said time was up and I needed to go, that it could wait until next time. She asked me if I would journal about it and share that with her and I told her I would work on it. I really DID want to talk about it, but how do you tell your T with no time left that her asking you how she can help you feel like she's more a part of your circle of friends triggers you and freaks you out? My mother about died today when I told her my T had said that to me (my mother has also been a patient of my T's in the past, but not for as long as I have been). I know (I guess I should say I feel pretty sure, as I don't truly 'know') my T won't cross boundaries with me and won't do things I don't ask her to do/that we don't agree on together. But my mom told me I need to tell my T that she is NOT MY FRIEND, she's my THERAPIST. Eeker Agreed. Thanks, Mom. That conversation is going to be weird, and super hard for me to open up. The next 3 weeks are going to be L-O-N-G. Sigh.

Anyway, between having to talk about old stuff that had to do with my ex-phys. therapist and then not being able to work through a really important issue with my T today, I ended up leaving feeling really triggered and vulnerable. My T tried to help me back to a better place, but I just could NOT get there. I haven't had to really open old wounds and expose my attachment issues that have to do with my ex-PT like that before. I've tried to bury that stuff and it was harder to expose that stuff to my T to whom I have an even stronger attachment. It made me feel really --exposed-- and I've been trying SO HARD to keep my true self hidden from my T for the past year. I haven't wanted her to really 'see' me because I fear she'll think I'm disgusting, creepy, freaky, sick, wrong, screwed up, etc. I keep wondering when she's 'really' going to see it all. She keeps telling me she's not.

My T suggested doing some EMDR on the old ex-PT stuff next time so that I can be rid of the painful feelings about all of that and see it without those feelings attached. Don't know if that will help or not. I don't think that I like EMDR. It's weird. I'll have to think/spin on that for the next 3 weeks. At least I don't think I have to journal about THAT!! Cool

MTF
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MTF,
I'm really sorry about your session ending your way. I didn't have a lot of those, but I definitely had them and they're the worst. It can be so hard to make it through that gap in appointments and the only thing that keeps us going is KNOWING that at least we can connect and be heard and feel better during the session. When that doesn't happen, when we leave feeling like we didn't connect, it's like we have nowhere to go. That can be really painful and I'm sorry you're going through that.

I do want to encourage though, that in looking back I eventually realized that those sessions happened because I was so activated I could NOT take in my Ts caring. He was always so consistent and caring that eventually it became clear to me that there were just times I couldn't hear him. (and in all fairness to me, he is human, I think there were times where the attunement just failed). But here's the upside of realizing this. Instead of beating myself for not being able to take it in, I was able to realize that just because it FELT like the connection and caring had disappeared did NOT make it true that it was gone. The bond was intact, I was just having different feelings about then I was used to having. I very much think that's true in your case.

And while I do wish that your T had asked you that question when you had time, I felt very encouraged about how she responded about saying she would let you in. Her explanation of making it clear that she didn't think you were being over the top made a lot of sense. She was normalizing your actions for you. I know I very recently told you I saw red flags here so I thought it only fair to say that her explanation made her behavior look much less alarming to me. I think it might have been clearer for you if she had been able to say "of course I understand you wanting to see my home" so I'm really glad that you had the courage to bring this up and give her an opportunity to clarify what she meant.

I'm sorry about the three week gap, that's an eternity when you're in the place that you're in. Being exposed and vulnerable the way you are can be incredibly threatening. Let ourselves be seen can feel like the most dangerous thing in the world because when we were children it was. Please be gentle with yourself, there are probably very good reasons why you find it so scary to be seen and known. But the real truth is that you are NOT disgusting, creepy, freaky, sick, wrong or screwed up and the way that you'll learn that is by letting your T see you, all of you and having her not react to you the way you expect. I feel for you, I know doing that was one of the hardest and scariest things I've ever done, but it's also the way to heal. Everything you're describing I've felt. We just learned to believe a lie a long time ago which was that our normal, garden variety, everyone has them human needs were somehow so far over the top and way out of line. They weren't then, its just that the people who were supposed to meet the needs failed to and you learned the wrong lesson from that. Hang in there.

AG
Hi MTF,

I don't have much I can offer, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry things are so tough for you right now. That is SO hard having a 3 week break. Is there any way at all that you can get some sessions closer together? It just seems like, to work through these painful feelings regarding your ex-PT, you need to not feel like you're going to have to deal with open wounds by yourself for 3 weeks at a time. Perhaps that's why your T wants to do EMDR next time, though. I'm not sure...none of this is probably helpful, but I just wanted to offer some support to you, MTF.

Big hugs,
Kashley
MH, AG, Kashley & Monte: Thanks for your support ladies. Smiler

Today has been a hard day. I've just wanted to spend the day curled up in a ball wrapped up in a blanket for comfort. Tonight I was out at a store near the hospital where my T works and I can't tell you how hard it was to drive home instead of taking a drive by the hospital to see if she was still in her office, which was very likely. Frowner Instead I'm supposed to write in my journal tonight about the impulse I had to go there. And I'm already dreading having my T read that part and worried about what she's going to think. I'm a real head case, I know. Roll Eyes I was on the computer earlier today and was tempted to just pull up a photo of my T too but had to resist that urge. I'm feeling like I should delete them, but know I'll end up regretting it if I do. At least my cell phone bill is so high right now that there's not enough temptation to call my voicemail so I can hear my T's messages she's left on there. Forty five cents a minute adds up fast. Ugh. The next 3 weeks are going to feel like forever.

MH:

quote:
I wish there were some way for you to see her at least weekly. I know your insurance is limited, but do you think you could fork up enough cash to pay for any extra sessions, even one extra per month?


You know, I JUST found out last week that I haven't had a limit on the number of visits I've had this entire year??? Can I just tell you that had me SO RAGING MAD???!!! No one bothered to tell ME!! Money is pretty tight right now because we're moving this month and have to pay closing costs, and things will be tight from here on out, but my copay will be lower in the new year, so I'm hoping that I can see my T a bit more frequently starting in January. I'll have to talk to her, as she'll have to be the one to get me in on cancellations if I'm going to see her weekly. Her schedule gets booked a couple months out. BTW, I'm glad you've got an option for more sessions with your T. Smiler

quote:
On a side note, can I just say that I think its a little weird that you and your mom have the same T and that you talk to your mom about your T. That's just foreign to me. Doesn't it affect you being able to disclose issues surrounding your mom in therapy?


The more I think about this the weirder I think it is, too. My mom hasn't been to 'our' T Eeker (even sounds weird) since the beginning of last year, and that was for I think 3 sessions for some EMDR. She was having disturbing dreams and my T knew what they were all about and the two of them got the issues resolved and my mom hasn't had issues since. The first time my mom saw this T was back in 2002 for some regular therapy and I don't know how long she saw her. Maybe a few months? My T says she remembers my mom, but I don't know how well. I'm thinking not THAT well because it took her a little bit to register who my mom was when I mentioned her name, and she has asked me who my mom is on two different occasions, so I'm assuming she really doesn't remember too well. I'm kind of feeling bad now that I have pretty well ruined my mother's relationship with our T by talking to her about our T. I know my mom wouldn't be very likely to ever go back to her, as my mom has been pretty shocked at some of the stuff our T has said to me and has even told me that she thinks I should find a new T and that I'm wasting my time with this one. Frowner She helped my mom a lot, so it makes me feel really bad that I've even said anything about her to my mom. It would be sort of nice if my mom didn't know I was in therapy, but she's the one who told me I needed it and even said she'd pay for it!! LOL!! Smiler However, I don't think my mom would have ever referred me to her own T. I just remembered this T's name from clear back in 2002. It's stuck with me and for some really strange reason I don't understand, I just feel like she's the T I'm supposed to be with right now, even with all the issues we're having. I've always felt that way.


AG:

quote:
I was able to realize that just because it FELT like the connection and caring had disappeared did NOT make it true that it was gone. The bond was intact, I was just having different feelings about then I was used to having. I very much think that's true in your case.


Thanks for putting it this way. I perceived that my T cared and was trying to connect, but I just couldn't FEEL it because like you said about yourself at times a little bit prior to the quote above, I too was really activated and it was good my T was trying so hard to connect like she was or I think I would have totally shut down/dissociated on her. After we both stood up and I was heading toward the door she even stepped in my path and faced me and was STILL trying to get through to me. She's about 4 or 5 inches shorter than I am, and I'm only 5'6", but she's 'tough' and I wouldn't want to cross her, KWIM? Big Grin Seriously though, I thought she was going to give me a hug, but no such luck. She just kept on talking. She talked as she opened the door to her office, as she walked me down the hall with her arm around me, and even as we stood in front of the exit door with her hand on the door knob and the door about 4 inches ajar (and my time was way up and there were other people in the waiting area Eeker), she was STILL trying to talk me into a better place. It just didn't/couldn't happen.

quote:
And while I do wish that your T had asked you that question when you had time, I felt very encouraged about how she responded about saying she would let you in. Her explanation of making it clear that she didn't think you were being over the top made a lot of sense. She was normalizing your actions for you. I know I very recently told you I saw red flags here so I thought it only fair to say that her explanation made her behavior look much less alarming to me. I think it might have been clearer for you if she had been able to say "of course I understand you wanting to see my home" so I'm really glad that you had the courage to bring this up and give her an opportunity to clarify what she meant.


I'm glad that you feel her behavior is a bit less alarming now that you understand why she said what she did. She also told me she sees a few patients in her home office. I didn't know that. I don't think though that she 'gets' the idea of me wanting to see her home. She once told me about a patient (which was actually me, but it's a long story) that was going to drive by her home but turned around near the entrance of the community and left. She said she didn't know why anyone would care to see what her house looked like. It wasn't a castle or anything (her words). She is new to this deep attachment stuff I think (well, actually I'm 99% sure Big Grin), so I guess I'm sort of the guinea pig and I'm glad too that I brought this stuff up with her, but I know I have LOTS more stuff to bring up. Maybe by the time I 'graduate' from therapy, she'll be a lot wiser about attachment injury.

quote:
Please be gentle with yourself, there are probably very good reasons why you find it so scary to be seen and known. But the real truth is that you are NOT disgusting, creepy, freaky, sick, wrong or screwed up and the way that you'll learn that is by letting your T see you, all of you and having her not react to you the way you expect. I feel for you, I know doing that was one of the hardest and scariest things I've ever done, but it's also the way to heal.


Thank you, AG. Hearing that from you is very calming and reassuring, especially having 'seen' you go through your own therapy and come out so strong and healthy on the other side. Thanks for being such a great example to us, and for taking the time to post to those of us still struggling through our therapy journeys. Smiler


Kashley:

quote:
none of this is probably helpful, but I just wanted to offer some support to you, MTF.


Actually, your support itself is very helpful and means a lot. Please don't discount that!! Smiler Thanks, K!!


Monte:

quote:
You really are courageous when it comes to confronting such things.


I can't take all the credit. I have great people here who encourage and support me in doing what I need to do, and that helps me to summon the courage. Smiler Alone, I doubt I'd have a chance, KWIM?? I'm actually quite the coward, so finding myself confronting this stuff is pretty shocking to me. I guess maybe therapy IS doing something for me!! Big Grin

quote:
I love what she said about you beating up on yourself mercilessly for breaking the rules YOU have made for yourself. Does that tell you something? How many unnecessary and harsh shoulds and shouldn'ts do we unconsciously place upon ourselves? Where do they come from and where else do you do that to yourself?


Yes, it was good that she said what she did about that. It has really made me think about how I confine myself to things I create, and how much I restrict myself in life by my own choices. She told me I create a lot of the "hell in my head". Roll Eyes Yep. I do. Now if she could just give me the magic solution to solve the problem!! Wink Sigh.

quote:
A 'bad' session can be a good thing, cos it really stirs us up and gets those wheels cranking. It reveals things we mightn't otherwise encounter. Surviving the fallout from a bad session and the wait for the next can be helpful too. It shows us we are stronger than we think. Yay for bad sessions!! Not.


Big Grin Yeah, NOT!!! Seriously, you have a point here. I am such a pessimist by nurture that I have a hard time seeing anything good in this. Thank you for pointing this out, Monte! Smiler I'll try my best to see this more positively (the key word here is 'try') and hopefully some good will come of it. I've got a suspicion that this journaling stuff will be revealing (to my T, most definitely Eeker) and helpful to me, and being able to step back from my feelings and look at them later when they have passed does have some really good possibilities for insights I would not otherwise have about myself.


Thanks again, ladies!! Smiler

MTF
MTF the way you’ve described how your T responded to your fears about breaking boundaries, and generally the image I have of her now from your post has made things a whole lot clearer. I too (like AG) no longer see some of the things she has said as red flags so much, as it’s pretty clear she is trying to tell you that she isn’t phased by the things that are eating you up.

In fact the more I hear about your T the more I like her (for some reason the fact that she is 67 makes a BIG difference!)

But I have to say that I would get a bit confused by some of what she’s saying. On the one hand she’s saying well if you really did turn up at her house she’d invite you in. And she’s saying that to make you feel ok about your longings to be closer to her, to know more about her.

But at the same time, it’s sending a message that it’s ok to cross boundaries - it’s a bit of a passing the buck to say that you’re the one with restrictive boundaries - those sorts of boundaries are endemic in therapy (well from what I gather anyway) and unless she really wouldn’t mind at all your visiting her house, I suspect that if you did turn up she would pretty quickly rethink her position on it.

For her to say, yes I know you would never do that, that’s why I’m saying it’s ok - would make me feel double bound, caught in that set up of - I’d never do this because I think it’s not right - oh this person says it’s ok to do it, so long as I don't do it... for me, very confusing (and in my mind borders on ‘mystification’ - an ostensible, yes this is ok, but actually it’s not!)

Either she is totally accepting of outside session contact like that, and genuinely would invite you into her house no problem, or she needs to say, if you turned up that would be a boundary violation and we’d need to talk about it, or whatever. It sounds to me like she is putting the onus on you for having restrictive boundaries and being mean to yourself, when in fact quite a lot of what is bothering you about boundary crossings are potentially real boundaries in real world. I know if I were in your place I’d be asking for more specific explanations of what the actual therapy boundaries are. That way you can get to see more clearly which boundaries are created entirely of your own fears and which ones actually exist in therapy.


quote:
She wants me to be in charge of the boundaries because she's not going to cross any, but she she wants ME to feel responsible for my own boundaries. She said that I have made these 'rules' for myself that she doesn't know about and that she hasn't made but that I have made, and when I break them I feel so awful and shame myself and then feel the need to disclose my awful behavior and the fact that I've broken these self-created rules.


This sounds so useful and helpful and must have clarified quite a lot of the spinning you’ve been doing about all this stuff. But, while it makes perfect sense for her to want you to be responsible for you OWN boundaries, I can’t see how the things you have been doing (that you feel so guilty and bad about) are in any way crossing or overstepping your own boundaries, the whole issue seems to be that of crossing SOMEONE ELSE’S boundaries. It’s almost as if her responses have put you in the position of being responsible for ALL boundaries, yours and hers.

Which is not to say that she would cross HER boundaries in regard to you as a client, but... I don’t know I’m not explaining myself very well here, there’s just something cagey about it I can’t quite put my finger on and I’m wondering if that isn’t what’s bothering you too - I guess the bottom line is I would expect a clear response one way or the other as to what SHE finds ok and not ok in terms of what you have been doing, so you get a clear idea of what HER boundaries actually are. I fail to see how us taking responsibility for our boundaries helps in any way to learn what someone else’s boundaries are, except by projection.

I’m also going to throw in something else here that probably is way off beam (and therefore please discount it rather than take it as being something accurate or true, it’s just something which is niggling at me when I read your posts) - I am getting the sense that you are freaking out so badly about the things you’ve been doing, in a way that suggests that you are, unconsciously, seeking some sort of familiar retribution. I know she suggested that maybe you expected punishment, but it might not be so simple as that. I’m just wondering whether there’s not some sort of testing of her going on here, or that you’re recreating a situation in which you were punished (for having perfectly natural and normal needs) and are now trying to resolve it (sorry that’s psychobabble, but your situation does make me think that all sorts of deeper things seem to be going on under the surface.)

You are convinced what you are doing is so bad and so unacceptable that there is only one outcome - rejection, punishment... And your T is not going along with that. Which IS undoing some of the pattern, but at the same time, I’m getting the sense that she’s not picking up on the deeper stuff going on beneath? Is not recognizing that you’re needing some kind of clarity from her about what is and is not acceptable, what is and is not ‘punishable’? I could go on and on with my guesses here but won’t Smiler because as I said it’s probably way off beam and more about me than you.

Hm it does sound as if your T doesn’t really understand attachment - her self deprecating comments (about her house not being special, about people like her being a dime a dozen) seems to indicate that she’s not seeing the emotional drive behind the things you are doing, she’s not appreciating that it’s not just vague interest or curiousity. She may see her comments and invitations to you as not particularly important and not realize just how much it means to you, and how confusing it is. I wonder if she won’t understand better when you’ve gone more into your perceived boundary crossings with ex-physT?

But it’s great that you’ve been able to talk about all this stuff MTF, and I think it’s great that you’re going to journal about it now too - I find that I get a lot of understanding by writing out the fleeting thoughts and feelings that scuttle across the back of my mind - that’s where the real stuff lies.

I hope the three weeks passes quickly for you - that’s an awfully long time to have to wait even if you haven’t had a disconnected end of last session.

Hugs to you ((( MTF )))

LL
AG, I agree with you. Lamplighter, that was some amazing insight you had into my 'stuff'! How did you do that??? Big Grin

I had this big long post typed up in response to you earlier today LL (because long is all I seem to know how to do Big Grin), and somehow my internet/cable connection was lost and when I hit "post now" it disappeared. Frowner Made me so mad. And of course I had spent so much time on it already I couldn't take more time to re-post so all was lost. I hate it when that happens--makes me super mad! Mad I'm going to try again.

quote:
But I have to say that I would get a bit confused by some of what she’s saying. On the one hand she’s saying well if you really did turn up at her house she’d invite you in. And she’s saying that to make you feel ok about your longings to be closer to her, to know more about her.

But at the same time, it’s sending a message that it’s ok to cross boundaries - it’s a bit of a passing the buck to say that you’re the one with restrictive boundaries - those sorts of boundaries are endemic in therapy (well from what I gather anyway) and unless she really wouldn’t mind at all your visiting her house, I suspect that if you did turn up she would pretty quickly rethink her position on it.

For her to say, yes I know you would never do that, that’s why I’m saying it’s ok - would make me feel double bound, caught in that set up of - I’d never do this because I think it’s not right - oh this person says it’s ok to do it, so long as I don't do it... for me, very confusing (and in my mind borders on ‘mystification’ - an ostensible, yes this is ok, but actually it’s not!)


Yes, LL. This is all why I'm so confused. It's like she was telling me that it was okay to come to her house, but then when I asked her why she would say that to a patient/be okay with inviting me/them into her home because it didn't feel okay to me, she suddenly got a bit defensive and said, "Well, what would you want me to do, be rude?" It was like she didn't like the fact that I was pointing out to her that I had an issue with her boundaries. Funny thing is, she is the one that made the statement about inviting me into her home in the first place, and I didn't provoke it at all. Telling her I had seen photos of the inside of her home and that I was ashamed of myself over it is different than saying that I wanted to come by her house and take a tour. After she said that she'd invite me in I wondered what we would do once I got inside. Have a session in her front room? Had she thought that far ahead, or was she just rambling when she made that comment? Sometimes I wonder how much she thinks before she speaks.

quote:
I know if I were in your place I’d be asking for more specific explanations of what the actual therapy boundaries are. That way you can get to see more clearly which boundaries are created entirely of your own fears and which ones actually exist in therapy.


quote:
I can’t see how the things you have been doing (that you feel so guilty and bad about) are in any way crossing or overstepping your own boundaries, the whole issue seems to be that of crossing SOMEONE ELSE’S boundaries. It’s almost as if her responses have put you in the position of being responsible for ALL boundaries, yours and hers.

Which is not to say that she would cross HER boundaries in regard to you as a client, but... I don’t know I’m not explaining myself very well here, there’s just something cagey about it I can’t quite put my finger on and I’m wondering if that isn’t what’s bothering you too - I guess the bottom line is I would expect a clear response one way or the other as to what SHE finds ok and not ok in terms of what you have been doing, so you get a clear idea of what HER boundaries actually are. I fail to see how us taking responsibility for our boundaries helps in any way to learn what someone else’s boundaries are, except by projection.


The issue here is that I'm starting to wonder if because I have crossed so many boundaries with her already if she has just sort of 'tossed' the boundaries out the window. I know she hasn't really, but I wonder if she feels like there's not a lot more I can/would do, so she isn't really worried about it. But yeah, I need to know where her boundaries are because I worry about crossing them IRL and screwing up with her, and I don't want to do that. I know we need to have a discussion about her boundaries; I just don't know how well that's going to go over.

quote:
I’m also going to throw in something else here that probably is way off beam (and therefore please discount it rather than take it as being something accurate or true, it’s just something which is niggling at me when I read your posts) - I am getting the sense that you are freaking out so badly about the things you’ve been doing, in a way that suggests that you are, unconsciously, seeking some sort of familiar retribution... You are convinced what you are doing is so bad and so unacceptable that there is only one outcome - rejection, punishment...
And your T is not going along with that. Which IS undoing some of the pattern, but at the same time, I’m getting the sense that she’s not picking up on the deeper stuff going on beneath? Is not recognizing that you’re needing some kind of clarity from her about what is and is not acceptable, what is and is not ‘punishable’?


You're not at all "off beam" on this. It resonates with me a lot. I actually HAVE wanted some type of punishment or at the very least to be told that she is uncomfortable with my internet activity and that I know so much about her and have crossed the boundaries like I have. If someone I knew very little and had a professional relationship with confessed to me that they knew all I now know about my T and that they had seen photos of the inside of my home--I would be mortified. I know the situation is a bit different because of her profession and such, but seriously, to me (and I think to most people, correct me if I'm wrong here) it's a major violation of her privacy and none of what I have found out about her (personal info) has been because SHE has put it out there, poor woman. I just feel like there needs to be something from her besides casual acceptance that I've done these things. For some reason it feels wrong to me. And I can't seem to get her to understand that. I'm sure like you said, there is a lot of deeper stuff going on here. I don't know what, but the fact that her lack of a reaction STILL bothers me all these months later tells me something is there that needs to be looked at.

quote:
Hm it does sound as if your T doesn’t really understand attachment - her self deprecating comments (about her house not being special, about people like her being a dime a dozen) seems to indicate that she’s not seeing the emotional drive behind the things you are doing, she’s not appreciating that it’s not just vague interest or curiousity. She may see her comments and invitations to you as not particularly important and not realize just how much it means to you, and how confusing it is. I wonder if she won’t understand better when you’ve gone more into your perceived boundary crossings with ex-physT?


No LL, she really DOESN'T see the emotional drive here. I'm seeing this more and more as time goes on. She herself had an attachment to a teacher in middle school, but I am really thinking it was NOTHING like what I have going on. Otherwise, I think she would better understand what I'm going through. She asked me what else I'm spinning on: kids, husband, mom, dad, in-laws, new house, etc.? I said no to all of these. She then said, "So it's just the relationship with me?" When I nodded my head she had this subtle change in her expression, ever so subtle but I saw it, and it seemed like she was pretty taken aback by the fact that it's just HER that I have OC stuff with. I really think my journaling is going to knock her socks off. I hope she's prepared for it, because even though she says I can't freak her out, I don't think she's fully understood yet just how much this attachment stuff really affects me. It's going to get interesting in the next little while, to say the least. Eeker

Thanks so much for taking so much time to reflect on my issues Lamplighter, and to respond in so much detail to my post. Your insights gave me some additional insight that I really have found quite useful! Smiler

Hugs,
MTF

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