Smiley, I'm so sorry you feel this way. You have always been supportive on my threads. I know it's hard at times to open up to others especially on a forum where you do not really know the people you are talking to. It may just take more time to feel comfortable and settle in. But I do respect your choice to go, as I myself, have taken breaks when things were difficult. But just know you are always welcome back whenever you feel ready to join in again.

I wish you a very happy holiday and hope you can find joy in your life. You are a good person and deserve it.

Hugs
TN

(((Smiley))) i am too, sorry that you going to leave.. I respect your decition, i have too felt like being incapable of supporing other ones here.i know its really hard feeling like that.. but you DO ARE PRECIOUS here on forum and belongs as much as anyone, you know? You will be very missed around.. I found a lot of sadness in your poster- and i have to admit, i am got a bit worried too, when you say you have been giving yourself a timeframe - thats up- and are going to stop stress after the vacation..?- please let us know if there`s anything behind this message, that should be a warning..and sorry if i am over-reacting to this. (i might read stuff into this, that isnt really there because of my bad engslish) Please, let us know if theres anything we can do, - support you, or just hear you out on your difficulties..

smiley

I just wanted to say I had the same anxieties as froggy, I hope that I just misread how you were feeling. I really need to say that it is fine how much or little you post - look at me...today was only the 3rd thread I have started in a year!! But it doesn't matter how much you say, what you have said has been warm and valuable and I for one have resonated with your posts.

Of course if you want to leave the forum because that is best for you smiley, then you must do what is right for you...but if it because you feel inadequate about your posts, then rest assured that I feel the same and have a hunch that many others do too. If you are able to reach out here if you need some warmth and support, please please do ...don't be alone in this smiley ((((smiley))))

starfish

Dear Dragonfly - I'm sorry if I have upset you. It wasn't my intent to upset anyone here. I know you know how I feel - I'm sorry for that. But thank you so much for letting me get to know you.

True North - Thanks for your input. I know it's me and my own sense of comfort. I wish that I could let go more. Thanks for letting me know that I am welcome to come back.

Froggy - Your English is fine. It's been a pleasure getting to know you. Thank you.

Starfish - I'm sorry for the anxieties with my post. I don't really want to comment much more on that. Thank you for letting me know that I have been supportive of you. I have tried. You have always had some great insight on me and I appreciate that too.

Bottom line is that I am alone in this. I'm sorry but I can't say much more.

thanks again.

Smiley

Smiley, I know it wasn't your intent to upset anyone - perhaps because you thought your post (and therefore, you) wouldn't upset anyone? I hope you can notice now that the fact that so many, including me, are worried about you then it means you mean a lot to many of us and have helped so many with your words, however short or long. Smiley, you may FEEL alone, but please know that you are not. We won't let you be alone, because you don't deserve to be alone. Please, please - in the last bit of this timeframe that you've given yourself - please keep talking, whether to us or someone in person.

Smiley, please keep posting. Even if it's just a word. ((((Smiley))))


Mac, although that sort of appeal may work for some - please be careful and considerate. I'm not discounting your pain at all, please know that, but just..be careful.

Mac,
I probably don't get quite how upsetting this is for you as I have never had anyone close to me kill themselves, but as someone who has at times contemplated doing so, it has always come from a place of wanting to escape the pain and from a place of feeling like my existence was worthless so my dying would actually be a help to the people around me. I know now that isn't true but at the time I felt it, I BELIEVED IT.

So I'm not sure responding in anger and accusing Smiley of planning to hurt everyone she loves exactly creates a place where it might be safe for her to talk about how she's feeling.

At the same time, may I say it was courageous of you not to dance around the issue and come right out and talk about it.

Smiley, I too am concerned and if what everyone is concerned about here is true, That you are planning on killing yourself after the holidays, I really want you to seek out help. And if it isn't, I think we all would appreciate hearing it directly denied. Please know that all of this is coming from a place of deep concern and care about you.

AG

Smiley,

I'm sorry that you are feeling alone. I know how hard it can be to reach out for help and that often when things feel overwhelming it feels like there are no other options left. Please know that you may feel alone, but you are not alone. There are people here and I'm sure people in your local area that can and would help you.

I agree with AG. If this has been misinterpreted then please set us straight. The fact that you posted this at all (assuming everyone's fears are true) tells me that you truly want help and you are asking for it in the only way that you can right now.

smiley, you reply to me only confirmed my concern. I am so sorry that`s the case. I really dont know what to say, other than please keep talking here- or if not here on forum, maybe even better- please talk to someone that you know cares about you. I think we have also made it clear here- with all our best concern- that your message are indeed upsetting and causing alot of deep worries. Thats only a natural respons IMO to the content of your message. I hope, though, that this is your way of asking for help and attention so you dont have to feel so alone... I dont know what more to say. I am so sorry you`re in this place right now. You are more than welcome anytime, to come back here and write if you want to. We`re right here, but we cant offor more than a very limited way of help, so i strongly encourrage you to seek out help from someone close to you, and if you already are doing so, keep talking to them or T about what you are thinking about.

Hang in there.

Smiley, in my first post to you I preferred to think that you just needed a break from the Board and avoided the thought that you may be thinking of taking your life, although I did have some anxiety about that which Frog put out there to address.

Since reading further I really am concerned that you are in such a bad place that you have made some plan to take your life after the holidays. As someone who has just come out of a very very dark and painful place herself I beg you to seek further help if you are having these thoughts. There is no problem or state of mind that is more important than your life and your existance to others around you and to us here who have become your friends. There is light around you and hope. I found it in newT who offers me the hand I need to make the first step into recovery. He knows I can't trust and be openn right now after being wounded but he will wait for me to be ready. As those around you, your T, your family and friends... and us here on the forum... we will wait for you to feel ready to share your burdens. It can be done.

I know Mac has had some strong words in this regard and I empathize with her as another person who has been hurt by the suicide of family members. I understand Mac's passion in this area and I know she only meant it as a way to show you how strongly she feels this is a very bad decision.

I urge you to talk to your T and those who care about you. Talk to us here. PM those you feel safe talking to if you don't want to put it out on the open forum. There is nothing worth taking your life for.

Please know what I say comes from a place of caring and concern for you.

Hug
TN

Smiley, it sounds like you are in alot of pain at the moment and I am so sorry that you feel so alone...I really know how that feels.

I also believe by you saying what you have that you are reaching out for some support and I really really hope that you can continue to do that.

There are alot of people here who care about you.

(((((Smiley)))))

smiley

quote:

Bottom line is that I am alone in this. I'm sorry but I can't say much more.

smiley I can honestly say I do know how you feel with that thought. For me it is the worst one that I have, forget the dreadful flashbacks, memories, nightmares etc - the worst thing by far is the feeling of being on my own with it again. And you said on my thread earlier that you had a partner, friends etc ...but I know you still can feel very alone despite that. I am slowly learning that I am not completely on my own any more, sometimes I am, but with the help of my T and the likes of the wonderful folk here, that feeling of being stuck forever with this is shifting.

Like AG I have also experienced times when I was wishing I was dead...and actively thinking about it too; it seems to happen to more people than is sometimes realised. Mac I do understand your anger, as it stems from deep hurt and pain. I have experienced a suicide in someone very dear to me and it is horrific, there is no other word to describe that loss, but I know that AG is right when she says

quote:

from a place of feeling like my existence was worthless so my dying would actually be a help to the people around me

When my T told me that very same thing, I remember I had a new level of understanding and empathy that hadn't been there before. I have never experienced anger over this...a lot of hurt but not anger; so I guess I can see it from both sides.

So smiley, there is understanding and care from peoplre here. We may react in different ways but we care deeply about what happens to you - that is the bottom line. Maybe reaching out here just a little will help you in your journey. I hope so.

I hope I have not said anything that has been difficult for anybody,

starfish

Smiley

I really want you to do what is best for you, because I care about you - a lot.

I love what you have posted in the past. It has been so good to get to know you in the ways that you have been able to share. I'm very glad you have posted where you are at right now.

It's really hard for me to let people in. There is a way I am hurting right now, and have been for years, that I can't seem to even speak the words about, let alone reach out for any support with. (I know, probably hard to believe with all the stuff I post here.) But really, I get it. This week, I finally said to my T, how sick and tired I was of running into this one thing I can't ever speak of. And it is huge. Like really huge. We ended up talking for a long time about what that even looks like in the most basic and practical way to let anyone in on anything in the smallest ways. I literally had to ask her - "how would I let you in on my despair and the pain and the hurt... ?" It was so hard for me to even ask, because I have been doing therapy with her for quite awhile, and yet here I was, unable to even know what the smallest step forward would be, let alone actually take it when I did. I was mad at myself.

The only thing my T and I talked about that session was about how it takes small steps, lots of small steps, to let people in. I've seen you do that here.

You have also encouraged me on my journey - not only by commenting on things I have posted, but JUST by sharing your own struggle. When you share about you, you help me. Even in this post itself. Seriously. We support each other just by being who we are.

Even if you can't believe that you have been supportive of people here, it's OK! You don't even have to support anyone here to receive support back. That's why it's so powerful, and perhaps hard to receive. You are loved and cared about just as you are, unconditionally. Without having to give anything back. AND, I personally believe that we all give when we all share anything at all about ourselves, because that helps others. It does. I don't know how to explain... But I am guessing you would not tell anyone here they should leave and not share unless they were sufficiently supportive of others here or sufficently have shared enough.

Please don't hold yourself to a higher bar than you would for us.

You are a beautiful soul with an amazing heart. I don't know what it is exactly like for you right now, but I do know two things for sure: you are hurting, and you are not alone.

I am remind me of something else that happened for me this week. I meet with an eq assisted therapy as well as regular T every week. The whole reason I started it was because my T and I had no idea what else to do and I was struggling to speak with any humans. I've been doing it for almost 9 months, and it is getting easier at times, but still so hard. Just this week, I stood out in the field with my T this week. As we talked and worked with the horses, I hit the same scary place of pain and despair that I have felt I could not let anyone in on, no matter how hard I tried or wanted to. The same thing I could not tell my regular T about - or even anyone here. I can't tell anyone. not yet. Not here, not with my T, and not even much with myself - not even when that pain is consuming me. And as I stood there with my T, I couldn't hide the pain, but I also couldn't say anything about what it was about.

I could not even speak the words, and for a bit, I could not even speak at all. My T noticed, and told me, it's ok, I didn't have to push to speak what I couldn't say yet... she gently encouraged me to maybe tell her about what the pain itself felt like, even if she couldn't tell me what it was about. She asked me if it seemed like a deep well of pain that might swallow me up. I nodded yes. Then I said the only thing I could I could - which was: "this pain, it feels like being in a desert - so alone and so far away from anything comforting and good, and the worst part is that I can't even speak the words about it, I can't ever let anyone in, no matter how much I try, and I can't handle it anymore."

What she said in response stunned me. "You don't have to speak all the words. They will come if/when you are ready. They may not come at all. But no matter what, you are not alone. I'm here with you. And these horses are too. No matter what you are going through. We are right here and with you in that desert."

These sweet horses, the only beings I can really trust to never judge or abandon me, were right there. All they knew was that this human (me) was hurting. (I wanted to run when this unconditional acceptance hit me...)

Not only were the horses there, but the T too. No judgment. No leaving.

And it took a lot of 1000lb animals showing me that repeatedly over time to really understand I am not alone. (That's how hard it is for me to reach out.)

Smiley, just like that T and those horses are there for me, even when I can't see them - even when they are right in front of me, even when they don't understand exactly or don't know because I can't get myself to speak a single word... and they are there anyhow...

...we are here for you and we are with you. In the pain and the heartache you feel. We are right here.

Please know you are not alone. If you can, when you are ready, please keep coming back. Even if all you do is say hello. That is letting people in. That is reaching out. I know it doesn't feel like it right now. Just showing up, is a way to reach out. It will get easier to say more, to ask for and receive support you need. But I'm not alone in that pain, just as you are not.

And it's not about coming *here*. If this is just not the right place for where you are at right now, I can totally respect that. (I'll much you a lot all the same.) Please keep reaching out somewhere. We are not made to live alone or battle things all by ourselves.

If you stay or if you go, please, be safe. If here is not the right place, please find somewhere to keep reaching out. It is not easy, but you are strong, and amazing, and kind - and you are so worth it. And if you can't do it for you, then please keep you safe for us. this might be a bad way to put that - but really, the one thing I know you can do for people here, is to keep you safe. whatever it takes to do that.

*** And if we are assuming you might not be safe even when you are, then please forgive us - we just care! why? because you are an incredible person and we will miss you here, AND because of that, we just really want to know you are ok. The holidays are a tough time for a lot of people and can make feelings of being alone a lot stronger than normal too. Forgive me, if I am too concerned. Please know it's just because I do care and because you are worth that concern.

I am concerned when you speak of just getting through the holidays "with all" and then that is it. Do you mean just the end of being here or... ?

If you are feeling down and alone enough that ending all things in the sense of not keeping you safe, in the sense of ending your life - if that is even just begining to feel like a good idea, it's ok to reach out.

I've been there... I've been really far down that road... I've desperately wanted to end it all, and more than just wanted it.

I have lost loved ones to that dark place too.

I can say with all confidence: It's never a good idea to keep it inside. There is always hope and always help and always people who love you around and you are always worth it.

Always always always.

I know you say the bottom line is that you are alone in this - and that is the one thing I have to disagree with you on. No matter what is going on for you, you are not ever alone. You will be missed here. Just for who you are.

Oh, I wish so much I had a herd of gentle kind huge horses to surround you with, to show you in a visual way, what is true in every other way. Even though we are not there with you in person, we are like a herd of hearts. You are one of this herd.

even when you can't speak the words or share more.

i'm so sorry you are hurting so much.

many hugs,
~ jane

p.s. so sorry for my rambling. I posted and deleted this and posted it again. I wish I was more concise! ugh. sorry.

((((((((((((Smiley))))))))))))

I am sorry for the pain you are in Smiley, and sorry that you feel that you've tried everything and nothing has worked. You sound very hopeless and resigned. I have felt that way many times. Like AG said, I've also considered and idealized suicide because I've wanted to escape the pain, felt like my existence was worthless, and truly believed that my dying would be helpful to those around me. You haven't denied this yet, and so I'm thinking this is what you are thinking, too. And I admit that was my first impression before I even read anyone else's responses. Smiley, I'm glad you spoke up and told us how you are feeling so we can try and encourage you not to give up hope. Please keep talking to us...take a rest if you need to, but try not to totally give up...there is a solution somewhere, I believe, for each one of us, including you...I believe you just haven't found it yet...but it will come...try not put yourself under even more pressure with timeframes, especially on things like opening up...I don't know about you but for me that would just make me clamp down harder...if you are like most of us here, you find it a whole lot easier to help others than to make yourself vulnerable and ask for help...that isn't a reason to leave, it's a sign that you belong here more than you realize...and this IS a safe place to ask for what you need...you CAN open up as you feel comfortable and receive help...in fact I believe you just did it with this thread...so if you did it once, you can do it again...and I hope you do, Smiley, I hope you keep practicing asking for what you need with us. I wish that you would find rest and rejuvenation and a new reason to keep trying.

Lots and lots of gentle hugs to you,
SG

((((((Smiley))))))

Please keep reaching out.

I don't know what to say..... I seem to have upset alot of people here and that wasn't my intent. It probably would have been better if I had just disappeared from the site.

Mac - I am very sorry that I have upset you. Let me just say that I don't deal well with anger, and you probably don't care about that, but it really makes me hide. I understand it, I just don't deal well with it. I'm sorry for the loss of your Aunts and I'm sorry that you have had such pain over it.

Kashley,AG,STRM, Froggy,TruNorth,Butterfly,Starfish,Janedoe,Strummergirl and Jones - I am overwhelmed with your thoughts to me. Ok, so you are all right and that is my plan after the holidays. Now that I've actually said it, I'm sorry that I brought it up. I wasn't trying to invoke anger, sympathy, or anything else. I was just saying thankyou for letting me be here with you all. Had I known it would cause such a stir, I wouldn't have done it.

As for talking to someone, my T knows my thoughts. I didn't give her a specific timeframe or anything, but she knows where I'm at. I know that alot of people just don't get it but it's ok. Some people really enjoy life, some people enjoy a little less, and then there are people like me who just hate it.

I realized this week just how much my life has been screwed up. My family, meaning mom,dad,and siblings are nuts. They haven't changed and never will. I will always be the one on the outside. The one who just can't let things be. The one who refuses to be their "whipping girl" anymore. Given all that, I can't tell you how much guilt I have for that. Because of me, I have no real family. Because of the abuse, I feel dirty and ashamed all the time.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be talking like this. I will not mention it again - and I will try and participate more and hopefully we can all just forget about this.

I'm so sorry for causing such a stir.

Smiley

((((smiley)))) i am speechless and i must say shocked again about what you wrote. I am glad you reached out here again, but i am speechless regard to what to said. Despite the hoorific abuse and all your pain about the family-situation and your feeling lonely and shamful and guily all the time: YOU ARE STILL A BEATUFUL HUMAN BEING AND with all the help you should recieve now, this pain can be healed. Keep talking to us dear smiley, and please let your T know about your thoughts and timeframe also. Just let T know and take it from there.
Hang in there...

quote:

My family, meaning mom,dad,and siblings are nuts. They haven't changed and never will. I will always be the one on the outside. The one who just can't let things be. The one who refuses to be their "whipping girl" anymore. Given all that, I can't tell you how much guilt I have for that. Because of me, I have no real family. Because of the abuse, I feel dirty and ashamed all the time.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be talking like this. I will not mention it again - and I will try and participate more and hopefully we can all just forget about this.

(((Smiley)))

Thank you for being so honest and telling us that we were correct about our fears. I'm sorry to hear that you have these plans. I know it seems like there are no other options, but there are. There are people that can help you and things will not always be this bad. I know it is cliche, but suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

As far as the family goes and what you said about that, I get it. I really do. I am the outsider in my crazy family as well and I have no contact with any of them anymore. I chose not to be their victim anymore as well, but that doesn't mean that just because I don't have my family of origin that my life isn't worth living. I understand what a deep dark hole that emptiness creates, but you can move forward from that and create your own family of choice. You are bigger than the sum of your experiences and you can heal.

Please tell your T your plans. I urge you to get help and if you can't keep yourself safe then tell someone who can help to keep you safe until you can do it for yourself. You are worth saving.

Hi Smiley,

I am really glad that you came back and posted but am really really sad to hear you confirming peoples thoughts. I think the upset that people are feeling comes from caring about you as a person and the fact that you are feeling so alone and unable to share your sadness.

Smiley, I am glad that your T knows your thoughts...can I ask how she responded? I know some T’s will respect the wishes of their clients and I am not saying I don’t respect your wishes...I totally do, but I wondered what support she has offered you... I still feel that by bringing it up here you are looking for another form of support or at least I hope so because to me that means you haven’t entirely given up.

Maybe it is true that your family will never change but that doesn’t mean that you can’t change and grow as a person. I am really sorry you have so much guilt....it sounds like they are the ones that should be bearing this and not you.

quote:

The one who just can't let things be. The one who refuses to be their "whipping girl" anymore

Smiley this is fighting talk...there are ways of fulfilling this without doing what you are planning...I hope you know this.

I don’t think this is something that people can forget about because despite what you think you are important and such a caring person and you deserve to live your life to the full without all the sadness.

I really hope you keep talking, whether it is here, with your T or other people.

(((((Smiley)))))

Butterfly

((((smiley))))

I know you were not trying to cause a stir and that you were just tryng to say thank you. When I wanted to die, I had the same thoughts... and I didn't want to stir anyone up...

It's not the fact that you shared it that is stirring, or that you are hurting so much. It is our care for you. Losing you to suicide, or anything else, would cause a stir, cause deep concern and hurt - irregardless if you said anything beforehand. Please please don't feel bad for having shared. You are wonderful for having shared it. That takes such bravery and honesty and strength. I am sincerely glad you have.

quote:

I realized this week just how much my life has been screwed up. My family, meaning mom,dad,and siblings are nuts. They haven't changed and never will. I will always be the one on the outside. The one who just can't let things be. The one who refuses to be their "whipping girl" anymore. Given all that, I can't tell you how much guilt I have for that. Because of me, I have no real family. Because of the abuse, I feel dirty and ashamed all the time.

It's like you took the words out of my mouth of what I have been struggling with this holiday myself. Even my own brother has called me the "family scapegoat" "the family blacksheep" "the invisible one" "the family dumping ground" (the person where family takes all their stuff out and puts it on me as their fault) - and I am lucky, he sees it. It has taken him 27 years... but he sees it now...

When I stood up to it and said no, I'm not ok with this, I'm valauble just as much as the rest of you, stop dumping on me and blaming me for everything... The rest of my family had a family reunion, and didn't invite me or tell me until 2 years later - and just... oh, i won't say what they did because it was really wrong... It usually gets worse when we deceide to stop engaging in the crazyiness.

It's not beacuse of you that your family is awful, it is because of them. And that is hard. Especially this time of the year... I'm proud of you for realizing they are being nutty and crazy - it's not you.

I'm so sorry they suck and I am so sorry you are hurting so much. You deserve much better. And the pain, it will get better sweetheart, it will. Please keep reaching out and sharing where you are at. you haven't done anything wrong. You have done the right thing by sharing where you are at.

Please keep sharing with your T too. Is it scary for you to tell her more?

I have seriously tried to end everything in the past. I never thought there was any way the pain could be any better, and I hated every breath I breathed. I didn't tell my T of my plans... and at the time, I never thought I would say this, but today, I am so glad I failed.

I'm really glad you are here too. I'm so sorry you are overwhelmed. Please know the response is because you matter, and because I care. I'm so very glad you shared. Please try to see this as friends who saw you hurting and just don't want to lose you, and want to be with you, and who know life is worth it. There is always help.

~ jane

Dear Smiley,

Please don't be sorry for causing 'a stir'. It's simply that you said what you honestly are feeling, and that gives us a chance to respond honestly too. I would much much much rather have this opportunity to tell you that we care and to ask you to stay, to ask you to take help to find other ways, than to find that you had simply 'disappeared'.

I know you are quiet, Smiley, but you are part of our community, part of our family here, and you touch our hearts, simply by being here and being you, sharing what you can of yourself. You are our friend. When I see you write I always know it has come straight from the heart - I just have a sense of what you might have gone through to put the words out there at all. I have seen you write of how hard it is to articulate what is going on with you, and I have always hoped to be around to see things shift for you - to find out about those other parts of you that I know are hidden away, to get to know more of you.

I get that you must feel worn out and sick of facing pain, carrying more than your fair share. I just want to say it IS unfair, deeply unfair, and I hate that your family did that to you. They should be carrying this suffering, not you. Things are shifting for you - you said you realized this week what they have done to you. It sounds to me like part of you - the part who refuses to be the whipping girl - is starting to realize that you don't deserve it. I don't believe that the shifting and changing in you is over, Smiley... there is more you to come, more to find and claim. I hope you will keep letting those changes take root, and keep sharing so we can offer you whatever we can.

Thinking of you,
Jones

smiley

That was very brave of you to tell us about your plans, thank you for sharing that information when it must have felt really difficult to do.

I am glad you have your T on your side and that you have confided in her...I agree though that it might help to share with her what you did with us about the timescale of things...she may not realise the immediacy of your thoughts

Smiley I have re read your lovely post to me yesterday on my thread about you being honest, a good partner and friend ...and all I can think is that this is potentially such a waste of a life and more importantly of a wonderful person who has so much to give still. I do understand your feelings about your family and cannot imagine how hard that must feel for you, but they are a part of your life and certainly not the whole. I do hope that you can look beyond your hurt and pain and feel there might be a glimmer of hope or future there for you. I hope your T can help you through this...and that we might too.

Perhaps we could have a deal to keep posting every day here, to keep that all important connection and human contact....that you know that you are not on your own, but you have friends all over the world who are rooting for you and caring about you deeply.

starfish

Hi Smiley
I know i am a stranger but i still wanted to add my voice to the responses of the many friends you have on the forum.

I am deeply sorry that you are in such mental and emotional pain and I can only imagine how bad it has been and for how long for you to get to the point of wanting to end your life. I wish i could take that pain away from you somehow but unfortunately life is not a fairy tale and i don't have a magic wand to wave.

I don't know your circumstances or the cause of your pain or even if it is possible that things will get better for you if you just hang on a bit longer. But what i do believe is that there is a distinction, subtle but important between wanting to end the life you have and wanting to end your life. And it is more than possible to change your life and to end the things that are unbearable.

So i truly hope that you can find a way to end the terrible suffering you are enduring and in doing that save your life and make it worth living. So much of our suffering comes from our own heads and hearts, Deepfried had so many helpful suggestion, including right medication and the help of your T.

You need to make changes, that i agree wholheartedly with, just please don't mistaken what could be the beginning of the most extraordianary spiritual journey of growth for physical death.

There is always a struggle for a catepillar to become a butterful, but the end of the caterpillar is not its death, but its metamorphasis into the butterfly. Allow the changes into your life, use the energy of wanting it to end to end the pain not your life.

I am sending love and strength to you from somewhere out here in the big wide world. On another continent there is one person rooting for you and praying with all her heart that you find your way out of the darkness and into the light.

Pandora

Dear Smiley,

I haven't ever replied to any of your post but it wasn't from a lack of wanting to, because I did. But like you I find it very hard to find the words to give solace or comfort to those in pain. I have read many of your post and they have always been supportive & caring of those in need. I only wish I could do that much.

Your description of your family really hit home to me as my childhood and teens were so like yours. I know how you felt and how you feel now and I am so sorry you had to experience this as well.

It is like what AG said and is right when she says:

quote:

from a place of feeling like my existence was worthless so my dying would actually be a help to the people around me

I actually thought and believed this to be true with my immediate family of my DH and my son & daughter. I did try 2x's but was stopped the 1st time by a good friend dropping in unexpectantly and finding me. The 2nd time my DH came home 4 hours early from work and found me. Fortunately I failed in my attempts as I look back on it, but at that time I wasn't too happy about it.

I will have to paraphrase something my daughter said to me later when I got better:
"Mom, doesn't God say that the birds neither sow seed or reap, and they have neither barn or storehouse and yet God feeds them. Of how much more worth are you than the birds?"
She was 8 yrs old at that time and that was all she could remember of that chapter. But it touched me deeply and gave me a very big wakeup call because I had terrified my kids.

Please don't do this Smiley, you have so much to give others in this life. All those who love and care about you here on the forums and those in your life now. Every single one of them need you to remain with us forever.

I know you are hurting terribly right now, but it can and will get better if you can find it in you to let everyone help you. Please hang in there and stick with all of us!

I can't answer all of you now. I have to leave my first job and head to the second. I did want you all to know that I am hearing you and your kind words. It just makes me want to cry. I am deeply touched and very confused. Thank you again my friends.

Smiley

((((((Smiley)))))

(((((((((((smiley)))))))

(((((((Smiley)))))))

I missed this thread because I was sick...smiley, I am just sending you the biggest hugs, ad telling you that you have value and your life has menaing, and that there *is* a reason for you to be here. But I know, those feelings of being alone with it all, meaningless pain, and that even in trying to alleviate those lonely feelings, can cause even more pain- is not a good place to be. I am hurting for you right now, and I want you to know that though it may feel you are alone in that pain, you are not. I am praying for you today- here, from where I am, thinking of you offering p[rayers for *you* because I know how much pain and suffering you are in, and I relate, and I so wish I could be with you. Feeling helpless, not to be able to come, and just ring your doorbell and spend some time with you.

Smiley...it is a very hard time of year. Stay with us. I beg you to please stay with us, and to please allow yourself to be as quiet and and loud as you may need to be here- and know that we still care. I'm so sorry that life is so difficult and that people seem so uncaring and disconnected one from another. It's not the way it is meant to be. We are meant to be connected, close peaceful, caring and loving. You have shown a lot of that care to us here...you've always responded with so much care, and it has always meant so much to me, personally. I love to just get your gentle hugs on my threads, when I am feeling low, and just know that you understand. It means more than anything.

I'm just sending love and care to you right now, without any expectations, that is all. You are such a sweet and caring person, and I'm thinking of you a lot and praying for you.

Hugs, hugs, and hugs,

BB

((((((((Smiley))))))))))

Smiley, I was actually relieved to hear in your recent post that you said you wanted to cry and that you are confused. It made me think that you might be opening up a little, that you're able to take in how others care for you and how they are deeply moved by your present state of mind. Your reaction is actually a good sign of healing. It suggests that you might be starting to feel once again.

When I thought about what I would say to you, I found myself remembering my own struggles years ago when few solutions presented themselves however I felt it might be more helpful to tell you what I've learned since then in my work. I do hope my post doesn't sound too "clinical" especially in light of the warmth expressed from others. You see, this time of year can easily max many of us out and it can have a dramatic affect on our ability to feel. Our natural reaction in the body is to go numb. It's like our nervous system shuts down because the charge is too high. The pain lightens. This tends to make us feel detached and natually enough, that's more comfortable than the pain. However, the problem is, in this state, we don't feel much of anything for good or bad. And without a felt sense of the world around us it means we can't attach a meaning to our lives.

So, you won't experience that delightful feeling when you first stretch your body in the morning or when you splash cold water on a hot face, or the smell of fresh coffee or warm tea down your throat and a hundred other sensations that we take for granted but which knit our lives together. Because without those experiences we have nothing to balance the heartache, the sense of dread or feeling like the bottom has fallen from within us.

I hope you will hang in there Smiley. Clearly your life has meaning for those of us in this forum.

Best,

Shrinklady

P.S. It would be a little reassuring to some of us if you could let your therapist know more details about your present state and then let us know that you've done so.

Hi Smiley,

I don't know what more I can add here to the very eloquent voices of your friends. And Shrinklady's post is full of wisdom. But I did want to point out a few things that struck me.

First is that you ARE opening up and sharing your darkest thoughts and fears with us. You are doing it and you can do it. And by allowing us to share in your pain you are helping all of us to understand and know you better.

Second I am thinking of how you say you put a smile on your face and go through life... sometimes feeling fake. Well, all of those people who are blessed with your smile as you walk by them or interact with them in your real life are receiving a real gift from you. You may never know what your smile has meant to them. Perhaps they were feeling sad or stressed or troubled and you smiled at them and made them feel good and worthwhile. Maybe your smile has changed their outlook on the rest of their day. You by just being you made a difference in someone's life. You may never be aware of this but your life here on earth with us makes a significant difference to others around you.

I hope you will follow Shinklady's advice and let your T in to know a bit more of how you are feeling recently. I want you to know you are never alone. We are all as close to you as your keyboard and I hope you will continue to reach out and share your feelings and allow all of us to show our care for you.

Wish I could stop by with some chocolate cake and tea and sit down and chat but since that is not possible I send you many cyber hugs and lots of caring and hope and strength for you to get through this period and out to the other side where you can experience real joy and peace in your life.

Hugs
TN

(((((((smiley)))))))
just thinking of you and praying and hoping for a little relief and healing for you smiley. My heart just breaks with all the pain you are going through and I'm amazed by your strength and courage.

BB said it well,

quote:

I beg you to please stay with us, and to please allow yourself to be as quiet and and loud as you may need to be here- and know that we still care.

just in case, I just wanted to say there is no pressure to respond to all that's been written. It might be a lot to just take in... no pressure to respond to all of it. really (especially my comments)

posting a check in, just like you did, if/when you can, would be great - when you are ready. It is good to just hear from you and know where you are at and that you are still hanging in with us.

your smile and your tears, are both a reflection of the beautiful person you are.

one of your many friends here,
~ jane

Hello Everyone, I'm so pleased with how you are all coming together to lend support to Smiley. I've seen this repeatedly in the Cafe and I'm just in awe of how deeply you share so much of yourselves including sending such heartfelt messages.

Your experiences are so valuable too…helping others to understand that even though the world may be crashing around you, given time, new possibilities will emerge. It's in our nature to heal.

I wonder if folks could give me a little feedback. It occurred to me that members and visitors who weren't expecting this kind of conversation might be frightened and/or triggered by the topic. On the other hand, I think that these shared experiences could be enormously helpful for others to read.

I wondered what you thought? I have a few options I'm considering however it'd be helpful if I had a little feedback. Feel free to send me a PM if you prefer.

Shrinklady

Dear Smiley

I'm a stranger to you too but I just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you right now.

I too really struggled with the idea of suicide. It seemed like the only way to end all the pain. But what's that old saying...

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary state of mind".

Smiley, I know it doesn't feel temporary right now. Just 18 months ago I wanted to die. And I can honestly say that I don't feel that way now and I am so glad I didn't go through with my plan. I remember asking my T what stopped me - and she said that small, tiny part of me (that I can see in your posts too) - that cared enough about me to fight for me. This small part of you - the one posting here right now - is fighting to protect you and is evidenced by your honesty in this thread.

quote:

It just makes me want to cry. I am deeply touched and very confused.

As my T would say, "confused" is great. "Confused" is way better than feeling nothing & being numb. It means you are living & you are "zoned in to life" rather than zoned out. And whilst you're alive Smiley, there's hope.

Big hugs Smiley.

I'm OK

((Smiley))

quote:

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary state of mind".

I so understand your feelings and desperation and your decision BUT as ((I'm OK)) has said it is a temporary state of mind AND THANK YOU SO MUCH I'm OK FOR POSTING THAT - so straight up and so true! Smiley, as bad as life feels sometimes it is still great to see the moon, stars, blue sky, animals, trees, anything and everything is just so bloody wonderful - even the ability to feel pain - as nuts as that sounds Believe me - even in my later stage in life I still sometimes feel/think **why go on**, but I think about the alternative and it's really not an option!! I'm a contrary little sh#t - I'm going to hang around just to outlive the dear female parent who left me so emotionally crippled
Please talk and share with us - every soul is so important to the balance of the universe - yep, you, and God forbid even me
Gotta go now
Big hugs and lots of understanding
Morgs

quote:

Originally posted by Shrinklady:
I wonder if folks could give me a little feedback. It occurred to me that members and visitors who weren't expecting this kind of conversation might be frightened and/or triggered by the topic. On the other hand, I think that these shared experiences could be enormously helpful for others to read.

I wondered what you thought? I have a few options I'm considering however it'd be helpful if I had a little feedback. Feel free to send me a PM if you prefer.

Yeah, this topic, especially when it is one of our dear friends struggling, is tough, possibly triggering and frightening. And, I think it is worth it. I would love perhaps a place, a forum section, a thread, something where we can share our past experineces and struggles about suicide? It might be good for people to also know, that we can't "save" anyone who is struggling in the current moment. We can only support and encourage and share - and let them know they are loved. What kind of options are you thinking about Shrinklady?

_____________________________________________________________________

**** Smiley - please know we all know you did not mean by any means to frighten or scare anyone. Any fear is just about how uch we care about you and don't want to lose you. You did the right thing by sharing where you are at. We kinda just saw through your attempt to just say goodbye and came out to say wait are you ok? and I'm very proud of you for sharing where you are at and confirming how much you are sturggling. Yeah, I'm concerned about you, but also proud you shared. Your posting and sharing has helped me. (I am sure it has helped others who have struggled who have posted or not too.) While I am not in quite as dark of a place as you are, seeing the outpouring of love and being reminded of all the resons why life is worth living has helped me through my own tears and saddness this season. Please, please - as we talk about how to share about this stuff, and yet balance it with trying to avoid being too scared.... Please please please hear me when I say you have done NOTHING wrong by posting (IMHO) and really, you may have started something really beautiful that can help so many others. Please keep hanging in there. You did the right thing and are super amazing!!! You had said you felt like you were not supoprting others - but instead, you may not only be supporting others who are reading (and posting or not) by just posting about where you are at, letting them they are not alone in what they feel, and letting us share with you how much we care and our thoughts and responses. We may even be able to help open up more of a way for people to talk about this and in less scary ways perhaps for posters and readers... because you are by no means alone in struggling with this. You have done a good thing! for us, for you, and for so many. Many hugs sweetie. Please keep hanging in there. ****

Hello Everyone, because this type of conversation is often considered "taboo" it unfortunately doesn't leave many places for people to talk about their experiences. Being shut off from sharing our experiences can inadvertently make a topic such as this even scarier and harder to deal with. As June found, it can be a relief to be able to talk to others who have been impacted by the loss of others. And I can certainly imagine some folks wanting to share how the topic gets discussed with their therapist.

Here is one option I am considering. I can create a separate space like I did for the Intimate Discussions group. This would be a space for folks who want to talk about this issue without fear of triggering others. This means folks would need to contact me if they wanted to be involved in the special forum so I can add their name to the list. As I understand it, this would take the current content and hide it from those who are not signed up for it.

Unlike the Intimiate Discussions group, I think we might need some clear guidelines. For instance, I imagine it would be reassuring to all members of this group to know that if someone was currently struggling with thoughts, that they are seeing a therapist.

So, once again, I'd appreciate your feedback.

Shrinklady

I'd just like to respectfully suggest, Shrinklady, that we take these last few posts and this discussion/feedback of how to handle discussion of suicide to a new thread and leave this thread soley for support of Smiley so things don't get too mixed up.

Thanks for listening.

TN

totally agreee, someone start it.
well, not more than talking about suicide, but still agree!!!

quote:

I'd just like to respectfully suggest, Shrinklady, that we take these last few posts and this discussion/feedback of how to handle discussion of suicide to a new thread and leave this thread soley for support of Smiley so things don't get too mixed up.

In light of continuing to offer that support...how are you faring today, Smiley? Thinking of you and sending loving thoughts and care.

BB

I hope so much that you are having an ok day today.

Hey Smiley, just thinking of you, sending gentle care. Take your time, take what you need.

((((((Smiley))))))

J