It certainly isn't the nicest comment, but I don't think it sounds that awful...either honest or teasing or a little of both is how I would interpret it (though, I am obviously lacking tone of voice, context, other non-verbal cues).

Then again, things that don't bother me that my H says to me, I have at least one family member who says they are "disgusted" about the way he talks to me...so maybe I'm not the right person to ask...? T always says he knows how much H admires me; I think H is much nicer about how he feels about me in his sessions than he actually is to me.

I thought it was honest, Yaku. I think T thinks my H neglects me quite a bit but since I'm used to neglect, it's hard for me to see. I think he wants my H to feel a little threatened so that he will work harder to make me happy.

What does your T expect him to say, "You deserve it and if you discover you're better off without me, I wish you well?"

I guess, he just expected H to hold his tongue for the last part? I don't know. My H frequently says very honest (and quite insensitive) things like this, but I guess I always thought, well, at least I don't have to guess at how he's feeling.

You know, if I could be honest, it was actually nice to see T react like that, like he might be protective of me. A year ago, my H bought a really nice car. The truth was that my H wanted a hybrid and there was only one on the lot and it was loaded. So I kept telling T about all the wonderful things in H's car and I think he got a little annoyed that H got a really nice car and I didn't. It was a little endearing to see that. My own family was never that protective. AWWW, at least someone is protective of me.

It is sweet for T to be protective. My T started out as H's T first, but I think he tends to be more on my "side" when conflict arises. He is always telling me what a good wife I am, things I am talented at, etc. H has said T is always telling him how awesome I am too...it kind of annoys him. I have never had anyone to take my side before, except for H (who takes my side when I'm having family drama). It is nice to have someone (who isn't in my crazy family and I can respect) validate some of the thoughts/feelings I have regarding H. I keep "switching" with H, though. It's hard for me to have an integrated assessment of him if you haven't noticed.

Oh Yaku, I feel the same way about the lack of integrated assessment. It's very hard when you are in the relationship to really see what's going on. At least, that's the way I find it. I will never fault anyone again for not leaving their H when I think they should because now I know how hard it is. My problem is my H is a pretty nice guy. Just a bit dysfuctional. And he's probably a narcisist. Codependents are attracted to narcisists. I know what a bad childhood he had and so for a long time, felt bad for him. But I'm suffering badly from not getting my needs met. .....

I thought your H’s comment was sweet…. If he loves you then should be pissed if you leave him! He didn’t say he would kill you or something… just be pissed. Being protective could be why your T seemed annoyed. I know my T at least is very protective. He can be really negative about my BF sometimes which has led to lots of conversations about feeling like he hates BF, but I know he just cares about me and is teaching me to be discerning and not take s*** from anyone. He’s doing something my parents never taught me.

Mac

Well, it did feel nice that T seemed a little protective but I think he is more concerned that my H really doesn't seem to see the need to look at himself and see how he is contributing negatively to the relationship. Like, fine, you go and do whatever you need to do to be happy and I'm just going to stay here in this same place waiting for you to come back. Although, my H's childhood was so bad and sometimes I'm not sure I would really blame him if he didn't want to take a look.

Honestly, I don't think what your H said was awful but what matters is how YOU feel about what he said.

I guess the way I interpret his comment is that he is saying that he is being very patient and feels like its not only you who is putting in the work to improve yourself, but he sees himself as having contributed to the new and improved you.

I can see how a T would think that comment is selfish on H's part because really, you are doing therapy for YOU. However, the reality is that you are married and your finances that are paying for therapy are connected to H's finances. Not to mention the emotional support that H is showing you during what can be a difficult time when one goes through therapy.

I could be way off base given that I don't know your H and I don't really know the context of the conversation, so take my opinion for what its worth.

Had more of a discussion with H. Told me he has nightmares that I'm going to leave him. Told me that he's only get to therapy to get a handle on his anger, not for anything else. Told me he's a beautiful mess and he's not interested in getting fixed. I told him that regardless of what's happens, he will always be my family. He told me that if we got divorced, he doesn't know if I would be his family.

Talked to T about it today. T says that H is very emotionally dependent upon me and that it's not a healthy relationship. If I grow and H refuses, what options do I have but to leave him???

When H and I met, I made a pact, maybe not with him but with myself, never to abandon him because I knew how injured he was. I'm not sure I recognized how injured I was.

T says that we both have issues and we need to work on them separately because we're both bringing lots of baggage into the relationship.



I will always love H but just want more out of life than the life we are living now. More stability. H can't provide the stability. It's feels so wrong to even consider leaving him. Like I'm abandoning my child. Well, I haven't left him yet, so I don't think I have to worry about that yet, right?

Liese,

I'm sorry you're in such a confusing place and that H does not want to do his own work. I wish I knew what to say, but sending you (((hugs))) and prayers.

Thanks Yaku!!! It's very sad to move ahead without someone you love.

Well, there is always the possibility of a separation, Liese. Perhaps if he sees you mean business, he will find the motivation to work on himself.

and if he doesn't....


well, he can still be a special part of your life, but maybe he isn't the "one" for the new and improved Liese.

You deserve to be with someone who has invested as much of themselves into their emotional health as you have into yours.

Liese you and I are kind of in the same boat, well, possibly. I wonder if your H gets an ultimatum that he has to look at himself and grow up, or *you* will be pissed at him...might give him the motivation? I think I understand why your T was upset at what your H said. It's like he wants to control you into staying with him, rather than letting you freely choose him.

I think your marriage is definitely salvageable, but you rH will probably have to climb on board and do some growing if he wants it to sork so that you are a support to eachother...otherwise you'll still be carrying it all, and having grown more than him- will really feel yucky about it, maybe. It's really hard to respect a man who acts alike a child, especailly once we do some growing and find that we are not so childish anymore.

Hugs Liese- Of course you want your marriage to work. That's a *good* thing- to be willing to do anything you have to do to preserve it in terms of healthy action- is a really really good thing, and a heroic one.

hugs,

BB

Thanks BB,

My H and I talked more last night. He said he is more willing to open up to the therapist than he said he was on Sunday. You and I know about abandonment and how bad it feels. I didn't know I had abandonment issues until I went to therapy. So, it's hard to watch my H, who has no clue that he has serious abandonment issues, it's so hard to watch him be in pain. I am his attachment figure and the more I work on myself, the more insecure he becomes. It's such an awful place to be in. Who do I save??? Me or him??? Me or him???? Me or him???? I guess I really have to vote for me but it's very hard to let go of him and let him try to land on his own two feet. At the end of the day, hopefully he will grow too ... but .... maybe he won't. Only time will tell.

I did tell H last night that he had serious abandonment issues and that it was interfering with our relationship. And that I'm committed to growth and that he could grow too or stay where he is. It's his choice. But I also pointed out to him that we'd be in two different spots if I grew and he stayed where he was.

It's all soooo confusing and it's hard to see the emotional stuff when you are in the middle of is. The anxiety that I feel letting go of all my delusions. T has been wonderfully supportive lately and very nice.

Glad your H is starting to be a little more open to growing with you, instead of watching from the sidelines! ((((Liese)))) I know it's hard to feel like you're choosing between taking care of yourself and what's best for someone you love. Thinking of you as I fight the same battle.

So glad to hear that H is stepping up to the plate and is open to doing some work on himself.

WE will see, LG and Yaku. At the end of the day, even if he doesn't, I will know it's not because he doesn't love me but because it's too painful for him. And that's okay. Whatever it is, it is. It's just all change, that's all.

((Liese)),

I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say we're in the same boat with our Hs. Mine is scared I'm going to grow and later abandon him, but he doesn't want to work on himself in therapy. He thinks he knows his own issues and can work on them himself. It makes me sad, and I too feel like you do about leaving them behind. But we have to do what's best for ourselves and realize that we each have our own work to do, and we can't force it on others to do their work. They have to decide to grow on their own.

MTF