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My journey

S stuckbetweenrockandhardplaceMember
Hello

I was urged to start my own thread so here it goes.

In Feb of 2009, just after my 2nd son was born, my wife and I started arguing a lot. She wanted to go to marriage counseling and I agreed. But I knew that she wanted to go for all the wrong reasons. She wanted someone to point their finger at me and say "you are a bad person and you need to change". I wanted to go in hopes that we could have a more enjoyable marriage. So we went. Right off the bat I noticed that our couples therapist was extremely attractive. She stated that she will not be a referee to our arguments and that she is here to help us through these hard times. After that, I was on board. After a few sessions, she asked to see me individually. In that session, she pointed out to me that my wife was extremely demanding of me and very critical. I hadn't realized this but I knew she was right. I almost lost it when she said that. I knew right then that this T understood me. And she supported me. My wife and I continued couples therapy over the next few years. Now I'm not saying that I am innocent in any of these matters. I certanly played a role in every argument my wife and I had. But the problem is that my wife thinks she IS innocent in ALL arguments. Time after time, I could tell that my T was very subtley siding with me. She couldn't come out and say that because that is not her role. But she was.

Over the years, I developed feeling for her. How could I not? Here was somebody that understood my pain and supported me. For instance, I'm a professional video editor. One day I decided to make a short film for fun. I took this very seriously. My wife just rolled her eyes. My T thought it was great and she seemed impressed.

One night my wife and I had a huge argument. We went to go see our T. My wife has always said that she thinks I have anger issues even though out T disagrees with her. My wife told our T that she wants me to see her on an individual basis to work on my anger issues. In my mind, I'm thinking, "Great! I get this beautiful, caring woman all to myself!". That's when things got hard.

My T really worked with me. I saw her 2 to 4 times a month. She helped me to see things more positively. And maybe I did have a bit of an anger managment issue. We worked through that too. She helped me find more confidence and brought out my assertve side. She helped me become a MUCH better and happier person. The down side is that since I got none of this from my wife I totally fell in love with her. She is happily married and she loves her job. She would never see me the way I see her.

Once I recognized this I had to find help. That's when I found this site. I also went to a new individual therapist and i did NOT tell my wife or my couples T about this. My new T was a male and I felt comfortable with him. He helped me to see why I had developed these feelings for my couples T. She met needs for me that my wife didn't. He really helped me but that didn't make the pain go away. After many sessions, my new T convinced me to raise this issue with my couples T. He made a very good point because as I was seeing my new individual T, I had to continue to see my couples T. Everytime I saw her my feelings grew. It was a never ending cycle. At this point I told my wife and my couples T that I had been going to a new individual therapist for reasons that I can't talk about right now. My couples T assured me that she was here to help however she can and that she supports my decision to see a new T.

Over the coarse of 2 months the transference took a heavy tole on me. My wife found me crying on multiple occasions and I had no way to explain what was going on. She got so mad at me for not trusting her. But I knew if I told her the truth it would hurt her. I emailed my couples T and told her I was ready to talk to her. She replied saying "ok, as long as what we discuss will be conveyed to my wife after we discuss it." This put me in an akward position. I went back to my new T to tell him how she responded. He was great in solving this problem. He broke down the facts for me and assured me that this would be ok. Basically, he told me to tell my couples T everything. How she sided with me, how she supported me, how she saw the best in me. Tell her that she became more than a therapist, she became a close friend. He assured me that if she has been doing this job for a while (and she has), then she will understand exactly what is going on.

I took his advice and I approached it just like he said I should. After I told her, there was a long uncomfortable silence. I broke the silence by saying, "I know why you can't fill a friendship role for me". She agreed. She was very professional and handled it very well. She assured me that she would not kick me out or abandon me. One thing she said that meant alot to me was, "Do you want to know how many clients I would be friends with given the opportunity outside this office if circumstances were different? Probably half". I took that to mean that she would be my friend. We then began to talk about how I would tell my wife. She went back and forth as to weather I should or not but ultimaely decided that I should.

I went home that night and began outlining how I would approach this with my wife. I has a hard time with this. I had so many questions. So I emailed my couples T with all my questions and she told me to come back in the following week before I told my wife. We worked out what I should say, which was, and this is a VERY shortened version:
I leaned on therapy for support. I got confused. Had extreme guilt over getting something that I wanted to get from you from somewhere else.

After we worked out all the details, she (my couples T) told me that it is in everybody's best interst if I no longer see her on an individual basis anymore. Inside I crumbled. I just couldn't believe it.She said that if I still need indiidual therapy to go see my new T. So she had abandoned me. We said our goodbyes and I left. The next day I went to my new T. I was a wreck. I couldn't stop crying. He told me I was in mourning and he was right. To me my T had died. She was gone. The woman that helped me, supported me, understood me better than anybody ever had, had left me. I cried for the rest of the day.

Strangely, I woke up the next day feeling much better. That day, I had the talk with my wife. My wife DID NOT understand transference. She was angry at first for holding all this from her. She eventually accepted what I had to say and we went to bed and everything was fine. My couples T had told me that after I told my wife about what was going on with me that she would follow up with my wife to help better understand transference. She NEVER did that. Gee, thanks alot.

This was a month and a half ago. I continue to see my new T but my wife and I don't go to couples therapy. And maybe we no longer need it. I do still miss her VERY much. Some days are better than others. I hope one day soon that I can get back to my life without thinking about my T every second.

Thanks for listening.
-SBRAHP
Original Post

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yakusokuyakusokuMember
SBRAHP - Thanks for sharing your whole story here. I am still so sorry to hear that your couples T abandoned you and also did not follow up with your wife. This has to be really painful, to feel understand, cared for, accepted by someone...until a point. I am always worried about that with my T. I keep admitting (well, mostly in writing) my ridiculous child-like feelings toward him and expecting, "This...this right here...will be the breaking point." He keeps saying he won't abandon me or reject me, but even good, caring Ts can end up doing it. That scares me. Why would they let us get so connected and attached if they aren't willing to see us through until WE can let go? I know it must be really confusing and painful. I am glad you and your wife are in a better place and that she was able to somewhat accept your struggle. My H has been somewhat accepting of my transference (I have shared the whole thing with him step-by-step, starting from before it even happened, because it has happened to me before with older men and I was almost sure it would with T). However, he still makes all sorts of inappropriate jokes about me and T (like T is wooing me or something), or acts like our T (who we both see individually, not for couples therapy) likes me better. I can't tell if those are actual underlying thoughts or feelings or just his version of pulling pigtails (i.e. teasing me somewhere that makes me very uncomfortable). Anyway, I just want to reiterate that I can relate to you so much what it feels like to have feelings you know aren't really about a specific person, but rather a specific unmet need, and to have the person who should be closest to you just not "get" it, even if they can accept and go along with it.
blackbirdblackbirdMember
SBRAHP- thanks for posting your story and help us get to know you a bit better and hopefully, offer some of the support on your thread that you need so badly right now. Being abandoned by a T is one of the most painful things that can happen to a person, as many here who have had sad experiences with therapy can attest, because it is compounding the emotional abandonment you may have felt in childhood, and also in your marriage. I know I am in agonies over just not hearing from my T when I email him, so I can't imagine how completely and utterly devastating it would be to hear that you can't go there for therapy anymore. Transference/attachment is not something to be taken lightly by any T who knows their stuff. However- I know your couples T cares about you and really has your best interests at heart, though it is my personal opinion that no T should ever, ever tell a client they may no longer come there for therapy, unless that client is someone who is threatening them with physical harm or something. She may not have fully understood your issues, or she may have felt that continuing with her would interfere with your deepening your relationship with your wife- who knows. She was apparently out of her depth, and that is so sad for you. Frowner Have you read any of AG's old posts on here- she had a T who actually met with and discussed her attachment with her T and then continued on in therapy where all of her feelings were totally accepted, but would not be acted upon. that is the ideal, in my view.
I do think it is so very unfortunate that she never met with your wife as promised to explain the transference and what was happening that is *totally* normal within the context of therapy. Is it too late to ask for such a meeting to occur? Many of us have a very difficult time asking for things, and you may also have a hard time with it- it's possible that she might still be willing were you to specifically ask? But- you would know best what makes most sense.

On the normalcy of transference- My spiritual director told me once, when I told him that I was obsessed with my therapist- that it's really normal and that it is supposed to happen in therapy- and he is not even a psychologist. I've had lots of people that I admitted my transference with my T to tell me this, it is well-known that transference and attachment and feelings of deep love and need and longing will happen in therapy, and is a crucial part of it- it is the exact reason why everybody says that therapy is *painful*- so your wife needs to understand that your falling in love with your therapist is *totally normal* and that it doesn't mean that you do not love her...clearly you do, or you would not have stuck around during such criticism and lack of the support and affirmation from her that you legitimately need. Love is a decision, in many ways, is it not? It's clear that you are a great guy, lots of guys would not do that. I just wish you didn't feel so guilty for your very natural and normal feelings for your therapist. I strongly suspect that your feelings, if met and accepted lovingly by your wife, would gradually transfer to her, yet within the context of the transference- but I am not therapist so I am only speaking from my own perspective, and my own (somewhat) experience- when I am connected with my therapist and feel cared about and safe with him, I am better able to connect with my husband and ask him to have my needs met, nicely. I practice being terribly vulnerable with my therapist, and it gives me the courage and the space to learn how to be vulnerable with my spouse which is much more difficult, because it yields less immediate rewards- although with the therapist it is more difficult in a much different way, hard to explain. So- I see in your situation sadly, that something potentially greatly healing for both you and your wife- has been thwarted, kind of. (but take with grain of salt) I see you admitting your feelings to your therapist- whcih you did not think you would be able to do- and then admitting them to your wife- which you did not think you would be able to do- and then, your therapist abandoning you right in the middle of that extremely important work you were doing which had the potential to experientially heal your marriage. arg! I am so sorry for the deep pain this must have caused you and still is!
I think you are probably not only mourning your T, ( and you are right it is like a kind of death, it feels like that very much) but also the emotional needs that you had met with your T, and not only that but the lost opportunity that the transference presented you with. I am so sorry. That is a very deep pain.

However- I firmly believe that you can still heal in your new T relationship. and that your marriage can heal, once you are working through the difficult grieving process you will have to now endure. Just don't rush things. Take your time, feel everything you need to feel in your new T's presence, and then very gradually you may feel ready to begin the other work you may want to still do on your marriage or other past issues..

I am deeply sorry that this has happened to you, in the way that it has happened- you do not deserve the pain. I really feel for you. Let us support you here.

BB
J janedoeMember
SBRAHP ~

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I'm so sorry your wife doesn't understand transference. It is so hard to really explain to someone who hasn't experienced it with a T. My T says we all have a little bit of transference in all relationships, but the relationship with a T is so one-sided and so personal, that the transference that happens with Ts is a very different to experience and explain. That's just too bad that the couple's T didn't follow through on talking with your wife about it.

I had tons of transference with my old T and she abruptly ended the therapy. It's been just over a year since then. It was very hard at first. The grief was very deep. It is like a death, and very bad breakup too. I can tell you from personal experience, it is painful but can be healing... I still think of her now and then, but it is very different for me when I do. I think you will eventually get to the place where you don't think of your old T as much. It sounds like you have taken a lot of good steps already. It was wise for you to connect with a new T to sort out the relationship and what was going on for you. It is really good that you are seeing the new T still. For me, as I worked on things with the new T (and in other relationships in my life), the feelings for my old T changed and decreased a lot.

Thanks for posting about your path through this difficult process of therapy.

~jd
S stuckbetweenrockandhardplaceMember
Thank you JD and BB.

BB I do not believe it is too late to ask my T to explain to my wife more about transference. However, I think my wife has moved on past the discussion which took place about a month ago. I am not happy that my wife and I are moving forward without someone explaining this to her though. She doesn't really understand at all what I am going through so I'm afraid she may think I'm a little wierd. Which is fine, she's my wife, she accepts me. But I wish my T would have followed through with her promise. I'm hesitant to revisit any of this since things seem to have moved forward. I'm open to advice on this.

What really blows my mind is that my wife has a degree in art therapy. She hasn't practiced it in 10 years but she has 2 girls (well, they were girls, they are adults now) who still call her every weekend. A while back, I told this to my T and she pointed out, "that is transference!". It never occurred to me that my wife was on the recieving end of transference. When I tried to explain this to my wife she said, "yes, but they are mentally chalenged". I told her that doesn't matter, ITS THE SAME THING!!! My wife sees everything in black and white. In this case, she doesn't get it.

Now I know this may anger some of you that my wife can be so so ignorant but let's not go down that road. Thats not the real problem. In the big picture, it doesn't matter if she gets it. What matters is that I find a way to move on.

-Stuck
S stuckbetweenrockandhardplaceMember
I had a moment of weakness...

Last Saturday, my back went out while I was at church. I've had back problems in the past and my couples T knows about this. They can be severe. This incident on Sat was really bad. I'm loaded up on pain killers and muscle relaxers now. My couples T supported me through my physical therapy last time this happened. It took me 6 months to recover and I lost 35 lbs. Last night, after posting all this previous stuff and talking about my ex T I began to really miss her. I was druged up on muscle relaxers and I had a moment of weakness.

I called her knowing I would get her vm. So I left her a vm. I had so SO much to say. I told her about how all my hard work getting my health back has to now start over. I also told her about how my wife and I aren't communicating. Basically everytime I try to talk to my wife she says she is busy, or tired, or watching tv. So in my vm to my ex T I told her how I can't talk to my wife about any of this. I also told her that my new T is doing good but he likes to talk alot. He will get into his personal stories and they will go on for 45 min sometimes. I usually tune out minutes into the story. In my vm I also said how I resent my wife for a few reasons that go back to the transference conversation I had with her but I have buried that resentment and as long as I keep it buried, my marriage is fine. (if anybody wants to know more about what that resentment is, I will explain in another post) I said in my vm that I don't expect her to call me back since I can't make an appointment anyway.

She emailed me today express her sympathies for my back pain. She also said that I should tell my new T about the problems I have with his long stories because he will appreciate my feedback. She said NOTHING about my marriage problems! She was my couples therapist! Why won't she talk to me? Doesn't she care? I didn't do ANYTHING wrong here. I've said nothing to scare her. I'm simply reaching out because I need help AND I miss her tremendously.I miss her so so much. I want to scream and yell at the top of my lungs. I am now starting to resent her for this. God, just get me out of this f-ing deal! It was my wife who told my ex T to see me on an individual basis. I wanted none of this. It should be my wife who has to deal with this pain not me. And as far as my ex T, she has no idea what she has done to me. DAMMIT!
L lieseMember
SBRHP, Did I do your acronym right? I just want to say that you sound really terrific. You are working so hard on yourself. You are so much more involved that my H has been until now.

I am so sorry about your feelings for your T. I have them for my T but he told me they were essential for my therapy. So I'm confused about why she won't help you work through them because it sounds like it is causing you so much pain not to be able to work it through with her. I don't know why she won't help you work your feelings through. Maybe she doesn't have the experience or she's experiencing counter-transference.

You have my sympathies because I can only imagine how I would feel if my T told me he couldn't work with me anymore because of my feelings. I would feel torn apart, quite honestly.

I hope new T can help you work through the grief and the pain.

Liese
S stuckbetweenrockandhardplaceMember
Hi BB,

I saw your post earlier but now I don't see it. Anyway, to answer your question,I resent my wife for 2 reasons. 1, because during a couples session, she turned to the T and said, " I want you to see my husband individually to work on his anger issues". She didn't consult with me or even ask if this was ok. Our T looked at me and asked, does that seem fair?". I said yes. So part of it it is my fault I just think she should have asked me before springing it on me in session.

2nd, after I went through months of individual sessions, my T helped me with alot. She helped build my confidence. She helped me with any anger issues I had (which were minimal). She didn't think I needed anger therapy but she did it to appease my wife I think. She did feel I needed help with opening up, communicating and self esteem. She helped change me into a much more positive person. I will always be thankful for that. She supported me. This is why I developed transference with her. Keep in mind this was my wides idea. When I realized I had feelings for my T and I went to a new T to work through theses feelings, I decided I wanted to share my thoughts with my couples T knowing I would also have to share with my wife. When I had the conversation with my wife, she said, " so you've been seeing our couples T behind my back?". BB, she had forgotten she asked me to see our T individually. Even though I told her or emailed her ( my wife) about every individual session I scheduled. My individual sessions meant so little to my wife, that she forgot. The sessions were so important to me. I took them very seriously because my wife asked (or ordered) me to do this. I took them so seriously and I payed a heavy price. I changed myself into an almost totally different person. The transference played a big part on that because I wanted to please my T. But it angers me how little my wife thinks of the sessions that changed me.

Now, as for the resentment for my ex T. She told me that after I told my wife of my feelings that she woul follow up with my wife to clear up any confusion and answer any questions. She also said that she was so proud of how I handled my transference problems that she wanted to convey this to my wife. She liked how I researched transference, educated myself, sought hhelp from a new T and was honest about my feelings. She never did any of this. And she has never contacted me just to see if I was ok after the conversation. She dud email my wife to say that my wife can come in to see her or we could come in as a couple. But that's it.

I have an appointment with new T tomorrow to discuss all this resentment.

Thanks for asking BB.

-Stuck
blackbirdblackbirdMember
Thanks for explaining, SBR- I'm glad you are gonna talk to your new T about all of that- that's a pretty heavy load to be carrying all alone.

I'm sorry I deleted before. I'm in a difficult place currently and sometimes I get spacy and delete really random stuff on here.

I wish I could offer more input today, but I'm afraid that it will have to wait for later for my part, as I am really spent, and can't find good words.

Peace- I'll talk to you soon,

BB
S stuckbetweenrockandhardplaceMember
Hey BB,

I did talk to my new T about the resentment just a few days ago. And he didn't really say anything about the resentment. I layed everything out on the table and maybe I overwhelmed him but he never touched the resentment issue. By the time he stopped talking about everything I had said, I guess I had forgotten about it myself. I wonder if I should send an email to him to get his thoughts.

-SBR
S sadlyMember
Gosh, SBRHP, what a lot of suffering. Anyone reading this considering going INTO therapy would probably run! You have had SUCH a hard time. I know the ache of being terminated by a T whom I loved, and the grief and literal heart ache. I am sorry it is so hard and `i have read other people's comments here and am glad you are getting some really good responces and feedback. I just thought I would post to say that I am really feeling for you and encourage you to try and deepen the relationship with your new T. I find new T's often unconsciously deflect criticisms about old t's - it makes it hard work to get heard.
Keep chipping away on all fronts, talking with your wife, getting heard a bit from the ex T, getting the new T to sharpen up a bit and not go on so much in the personal story front.
Take care.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I'm sorry your newT seemed overwhelmed. Maybe he was processing or maybe just making sure you got it all out? I think it would be fine to let him know you need some reassurance that he heard you and you guys are still OK. When I send vulnerable texts or share feelings I have about T that I'm worried about how he'll respond, I often tell him that I just need reassurance that everything is still cool between us. It's always so helpful just to hear back that everything is still "very OK" or some such thing. Sometimes, I'd like a more specific reaction, but I usually forget by the time my session roles around, LOL. Smiler

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