Thanks for sharing Amazon.

Your openness about how you feel about your T is so nice to read. Because I think my feelings were close to yours but I've never let myself tell him nor have I really admitted it to myself. It's always seen as "something silly that can't happen so there's no point on dwelling on it".

Yet I am thinking about him so much since I left. I long for that hour where I felt safe and open while vulnerable and scared. It's almost a total contradiction of emotions. I was attracted to him yet have such low self-esteem, felt he was protective of me and yet wondered if he judged me or was just placating me. I was discussing the physical distance between us in the room to a close friend a few days ago and she was amazed at how far away we were. Sometimes it felt like an ocean apart. And yet sometimes, when I was in real pain and discomfort-when his gaze wouldn't leave me, I just wanted the ground to swallow me up. The hours I spent staring at the carpet in his room!!

Strangely the source of my issues seem to stem from my relationship with my dad too and how he acted throughout my childhood. Sometimes I think transference is my mind's way of burying the emotional pain.

Hi HB,

Thanks for your compliments. Yes, I am indeed CL. I picked Mrs. Prufrock from the "Lovesong of J Alfred Prufrock" poem by T.S. Eliot. I love his poetry and identify with so many points in that poem.

And I agree with you on the transference, I wasn't sure if burying was the right word. I'm struggling with making the link between my feelings and erotic longing for my T and how I get on with my dad. They feel like two separate issues. I can't connect the two. Particularly the erotic part and it's driving me mad. I wonder if the erotic part stems from something different, wanting to submit to him or that I think that having sex/physical affection is proof that he loves me/cares for me. I know I craved physical affection in my last relationship.

As for how level the mind is...brings me back to a book I read that was recommended to me by another T-the power of negative thinking...you can see why I was drawn to the title Finally, I thought, someone who doesn't tell me to chin up or look on the bright side. Of course I managed to turn the book itself into something negative! The idea behind the book was a good one and logical in my mind, that we use negative thinking to protect ourselves e.g. I won't go outside and meet with people because they won't like me= I won't go outside and meet people because I'm afraid they won't like me and don't want to get hurt. Incredibly clever in fact.

So while I agree with what the author was saying I managed to find holes when I tried to focus on myself as usual. I began to think of the author as someone who was again, trying to placate people like me, who are overly negative i.e. "it's ok to be negative, you're just protecting yourself"- in a ploy to make me feel better and accepted. You can see how deeply rooted my mistrust, skepticism and criticism of myself are!

You've got one clever T there HB if you don't mind me saying! Sounds like he might be even able to outwit my negative thinking! And believe me lots of people, including myself have tried and failed!

I agree with him though in a way. An example of my anxiety or what you referred to in yourself as convincing yourself you don't need something: if I am on a train and on the inside seat and need to go to the toilet I am so nervous of disturbing the other person or putting them out in any way that I will not ask them to please let me out. Another one was when I was working earlier in the year and I had such anxiety about being looked on as stupid that it would take me an hour or a number of hours to go up to my supervisor and discuss things with him. I was literally paralyzed with fear. And it still continues, I intensely dislike talking to new people on the phone or asking for/ordering anything even though I'M the one paying for it.

Mrs. P

Could anybody tell me how their therapy influenced their personal relationships with husband or boyfriend?
I'm begining to think about my relationship. Is it worthwhile at all? I just had a row with my boyfriend. I don't have a good insight (yet)into what the things between me and him really are (we are together 3,5 years).
I was thinking about my T, how I prehaps would like to have someone who talks and listens the way he does instead of my boyfriend. I'm looking forward to uncover the reality of my personal relationship at some stage.
My therapist however... he is from a dream, he stepped out of his reality to make my dream real and touchable. I'm just feeling so dramatic after that row.

Hi Amazon, and welcome to the forum!

Your post struck a chord with me because I was going to therapy to improve my marriage when I developed feelings for my T (now my ex-T). I also found myself wishing that my husband would talk, and listen, the way my T did. But then, the therapy relationship is not "natural" in that your T is paid to give you his undivided attention for that hour, and it can begin to feel like a dream compared to "real" relationships like the one with your boyfriend (and the one with my husband). I know it's hard, but try to remember that you're seeing your T on his best behavior. You don't get to see him in the context of "real" life, interacting with others, making decisions, etc. Your boyfriend can't possibly compete with your T because you see him in "real" life. My poor husband couldn't possibly compete with my T's attention, either.

Now, as far as how the transference feelings affected my marriage. What I find myself wanting to say after reading your post is, be very careful. When I asked my T if I should tell my husband about the transference feelings, he said no, not yet, not because it's a secret, but because it could be misunderstood. You can tell him later, after we've worked through it. But now I wish I would have told my husband right away about the transference feelings, or insisted that my T explain them to both of us. By not telling him, I think I did start to get confused about what I was feeling, and for whom. Having my husband "in the loop" would have kept me more grounded.

When the therapy fell apart, I did tell him. Our marriage wasn't hurt because I was able to show my husband what I had been reading, and where it says that these feelings can be used therapeutically. He knows I'm trying to work through past issues so ultimately our marriage can be better. And I told him my T had recommended I not say anything, so he knew I wasn't hiding anything, but just following my T's advice.

It also helps that I have a very understanding husband. Not everyone's "significant other" would have been so understanding. I don't know what the right thing is to do if the SO would be angry, hurt, or suspicious about the feelings. My guess would be to have the T sit down with both and explain it so there are no secrets from anyone's point of view. That way everything is out in the open. And if the T can't do that...then I would get a new T. But that's all in hindsight.

I wish you luck and look forward to getting to know you better.

Take care,
SG

HI HB,

He does sound like a great T. And when I think about it my T had a similar system where he said "and what would it feel like to be in such and such a situation" He explored my feelings around the point but for some reason your post got to me, as in, it made a lot of sense to me. And like I said in my thread, I wonder how much of this is self-inflicted, that I refuse to be uncomfortable or tolerate pain, that I want an unachievable utopia of sorts. I'm scared that that is the case and all of this is all my fault. That I'm just not helping myself and I need to wake up and get on with things.

@ Amazon, as I am not in a relationship at the moment i can't comment from experience but what SG says make a lot of sense in my eyes. I can relate to the "dream" idea of someone like our T, who listens to our every need and hurt and patiently and non-judgementally responds. It must be a tough dynamic.

Strummergirl,
I told my boyfreind as soon as I became aware of my transference. I felt it is very important, he should now. Don't know if that was right thing to do, didn't discuss it with my T, but if I didn't tell him I would be lying to him and to myself, I would have to pretend something. He got upset, however I stressed out that it is not sexual. Besides, he once considered for a while becoming a therapist, he encouraged me to go to therapy. So I said, fuck it, deal with that now.
Anyway I know very well that my therapist is sort of creating an image for me that I could love. I am aware that I don't know him as a person, I know him only as my therapist, I now I couldn't have that with anyone else.
But I also now that as I'm changing my boyfriend may not like the new me. That may cause my relationship to fall apart. Because I am not going back anymore.

Hi Amazon,

It sounds like my response was not what you needed at all, and I'm sorry if I offended. I've learned these lessons the hard way recently and so that is where my mind is. But it sounds like you're already well aware of these issues and have handled them beautifully.

It also sounds like you are working really hard in therapy and that it is making some major changes in your life. I am happy for you and am looking forward to getting to know you better.

Take care,
SG

No strummergirl, not at all!
Maybe my post just sounds like I am pissed off in general, but it is not about your reply.
Sorry about that.
Sometimes I feel I'm moving fast forward in between the session and part of me is getting ready to punch my therapist (becase can't hug him forever and ever). It is so confusing altogether.

Hi Amazon,

Thanks...sometimes it is hard to tell without facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. I'm glad I didn't offend, but I'm also sorry you are having a hard time. And yes, I agree it is painful and confusing. I'm glad you are posting here and getting support.

Hugs,
SG

Ok, I didn't get a hug and I was sad, disapointed, angry that he promised and didn't do it. I was crying half of the night for my hugs that I didn't get in the past. I think I know what he meant, that we need to talk about it and really understand why I want a hug and what does it mean to me, and will it be good for me if he hugs me. I see his point. It would be not good if I just got a hug and felt all happy and wonderful, and loved him so much, but the learning part would get skipped. I suppose that the little girl/unconsious has to understand that the hugs are gone and she can't have them back, she has to stop searching for them. And he is not there to give them.

God Amazon I want those hugs so badly too. I never had the courage to ask for them. I just longed for them and never said anything. I craved my T's touch so much. I think I've always had that feeling though with men and particularly older men. Like I said before, my T always seemed to be a great distance away from me in the room. I vaguely remember him opening the door for me as I walked into his office. That was as close as I had gotten until the day I left him a gift. It was almost too close. Unbearable. And the awkwardness between us was palpable. Or maybe it was all in my head. Though I got the distinct impression that he wanted to do something but did not want to hurt me by crossing the boundaries.

And the worst thing is I don't want to think about the real reasoning behind the transference, I just want to grieve what I didn't get and what I wanted.

Mrs. P

Hi Amazon,

When I started to reply to this thread I meant for it to be short, but it grew into a book. I guess you will see that hugs are really, really important to me.

I will chime in here with Mrs. P and say I also wanted a hug from my ex-T. I never even considered asking for it, though. My attraction to him was much too strong, so any gratification on his part would have led to more trouble and pain for me. I also wanted to be held by him. Again, I never would have considered asking for him to actually do this. But I wanted to look at the meaning behind it. Mrs. P touched on it when she said she's always had that feeling with men, particularly older men. I have, too.

I think this is why my ex-T's wearing the white shirt was such a trigger. It makes sense that white would symbolize safety, purity, dependability, strength. And the setup of the therapeutic relationship is parent to child in its imbalance of power. And I've always longed for a safe father figure because my father was not safe. So it's no mystery to me why the white shirt triggered me. I tried to explain this to my ex-T during our last session, before I fell apart. He seemed to understand because he even finished one of my sentences by asking if it made me think of a "white knight", and I strongly agreed. But then he wanted to know what we were going to "do" about my distraction and I couldn't answer him.

There was one man I received safe, fatherly hugs from. He was in my life for a couple of years, 1990-1992. He was a member of the 12-step group I had joined. He was someone who had been in recovery for quite a few years. At first he hung back as I was making up my mind whether or not I wanted to stay, but I had the feeling he was watching me, and watching out for me, in a protective way. As I kept coming back, he began gently mentoring me and encouraging me. I was single, and he was married, but a "geographical bachelor", and yet his attention never felt inappropriate or creepy whatsoever. In fact he encouraged me to find a female mentor as soon as possible. And I did, but he still was always there for me.

The reason I'm going on about him is because of his hugs. After the meetings, he would always walk me part of the way home, and before he left he'd always give me a great big bear hug. Nothing shy about it...but there was also nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, sexual about it. This isn't the only time we hugged, but if he'd been up to anything inappropriate, it would have surfaced when we were alone. And it never did. Not even close.

He's truly the closest thing I've ever had to a father, and I miss him a great deal. We lost touch after I returned to the states. He and his wife gave me their address in Florida, but when I call, I get only Spanish-speaking people, and when I write, I don't get any response. I've tried finding him through an internet search, and I think I found him in Georgia, but now I'm afraid to try in case it turns out badly.

Lately I've had fantasies of running into him again. In my fantasy, I look up, and he's standing a little ways away, looking at me with that wide-eyed beautiful grin of his. And I run to him and give him a great big hug and I never want to let go.

I'm sorry if my going on about this is getting to be a bit much...but I really do think this is one of the major issues behind my problem with men. I'm just not sure how it all fits together. But I know it's important somehow.

In fact, the main reason I kept dating the man who is now my husband is because of his hug. He asked for one at the end of our fourth date, in a very polite way. It really threw me. I thought, what is this guy's deal, anyway? He even said "May I". So I said, yes, you may. And he's got a very strong, safe-feeling hug.

Our dating and marriage has been tenuous and distant in many ways, mostly due to my issues. But that hug has kept me here. I know that sounds very weird that it means that much to me but there you go. I am that weird. When he was stationed overseas for a little while, I felt horrible for not missing him more. But then on Valentine's Day, he sent me a Willow Tree figurine of a man and woman embracing. And I just fell apart when I saw it, because how that figurine makes me feel is exactly how his hugs make me feel. Safe. The figurine is called "Promise" but I would rename it "Safe". Here is a link to an image of it if you would like to see it:

Promise

Okay I'm really going to end here because I didn't mean to go on so long about this. I will just say one more thing, that I think there is something extremely important about me having a man in my life who cares for me without making it sexual. There is something in me that longs for that. I don't know why it's there but it is.

Thanks,
SG

quote:

I will just say one more thing, that I think there is something extremely important about me having a man in my life who cares for me without making it sexual. There is something in me that longs for that. I don't know why it's there but it is.

Wow, SG, you captured my feelings exactly. I think it's because as you said you long for that safe place.

I hesitate to post my experiences here because I have had safe touch in my relationship with my T and I know how it hurts others who long for it and have not gotten it.

And the biggest feeling it triggered was "SAFE". He was safe. I finally found that safe place. I love the figurine you posted. It's very beautiful.

Sorry I have not been around much. I'm struggling with some issues with my T and therapy has been a roller coaster the last 2 weeks and on top of that my son is having some health issues that are taking priority right now. I do try to keep up with the reading though.

TN

Hi SG-your story touched me so much. I envy that relationship you had and I know it must be hard to long for it again now. As TN said, that ornament is very beautiful. It reminds me of something that a male friend who did sports with me gave me once. It represented me doing that particular sport and seemed so serene and in control. I loved it and still do. And thinking back on it, the card he gave me was even more moving-I can't believe it now that he said that I was an inspiration. The man was 20 years older than me. And I always felt safe and protected with him as I did with a lot of the men I practised with in that group-I think they were all protective of me in a way and I liked that. I kinda grew up with them. It's funny how my warmth for them is just coming back to me now.

And I totally agree with you on the male friend but non-sexual thing. Particularly considering I feel like I'm getting erotic stuff mixed up with different emotions. It's so confusing.I think the lack of that strong support from a male in my life now is making my departure from my old T all the more difficult.

TN-I'm so glad you had safe touch, I can only imagine how comforting that was. Please take care and I hope your son gets better soon.

Mrs. P

Dear All,
Thanks for your replies and beautiful stories.
SG - the date with your husband, I imagine that would be the dream date for me. I never even imagined having a date like that. A man just asking for a hug. That must have been so wonderful!

I've always dreamt about a man that would love me. Could it be just longing for a father? My father is an alcoholic so during my childhood and teen years I just prefered to stay away from him as much as possible.

When I decided to start therapy I was hoping it will be with a woman. I just thought it would be better to talk to a woman, somebody of my own kind, somebody who will be more capable of understanding me, my past and present life. I thought it would be more natural for me to tell my secrets to a woman, I will feel better and safer with a woman. But there was a man - my age, quite handsome, so I was slightly doubtful, but whe he asked me towards the end of first session how I feel about having therapy with him, if I may want to see somebody else perhaps, I actually felt it will be ok seeing him. So perhaps I was very lucky for coming across a male therpaist, so this encounter may change my in general bad opinion about the male kind.

Anyway I am writing this post because I havent seen him in 2 weeks and I can't wait till Monday. I know that on Monday I will be all stressed out before the session. I love him so much and I wish I could have the courage to say these actual words and see what it would be like... I don't really mind the missing hug, as long as I know that I can see him. There is no 'no hugs policy' but my longing for a hug and for touch in general is something that has to be discussed, understood and worked through and then I hope I can have a hug sometimes. When I understand its meaning, past and present, and he will know what it means to me. I think it is a matter of touch. Touch was the missing thing for me.
Now I'm at the point of wondering if my feeings towards him may be sexual. In general I don't think so, but sometimes I'm wondering what it would be like. It's more like the adult me is trying to fanasize her way (sexual way) about a nice, good-looking guy, that happens to be around and attracting me. But the child me is taking her fantasy back to have it her way, ideal and pure. So it's sort of in between.
Sometimes I feel so incredibly lucky that I met him. All my dreams about perfect man and perfect love seem to be focused on him now. I wonder how would that work with a woman. He is so wonderful, so handsome, so good and kind. He is like a dream. Basicly my shrink is like a pure knight, prince, father, therapist... it's just so wonderful to think about him that way.
Ok, I'm finished now.

Echo, I think there may be a rule that your T is not supposed to offer you a hug. I think you may have to ask yourself and see what's the story.
My T hugged me twice and refused the third and fourth time, since we have to talk about it and get to the point.
I also don't like people touching me, but in general we are touchy feely creatures aren't we?

Scary, scary...
Are you all also afraid of your sessions?
I'm waiting for it all week,, and then I'm just scared. I'm afraid to talk about my feeligs, I'm ashamed of them. I don't actually dare to have any needs, the only one to be there and be able to see him. I can't get myself to tell him again that I love him. It's so difficult. I didn't actually allow myself to want or need anything from him, except trying to ask for a hug and don't really expect one.
I love him but I don't dare to want anything. I think he just gave me the idea of me needing something from him so I kind of did some thinking and maybe just became aware that I actually do want something. Hmm...
Just trying to make some sense...

Jeez Amazon I know how that feels. It became increasingly intense toward the end of my therapeutic relationship with him. I had to admit it to him. that I was anxious and nervous going into him. I had such strong feelings for him, I was excited and daunted by the idea of seeing him. Drinking him in. And, in a sense, I still worry about what i am going to say/discuss in my sessions with my new T.

I presume (and there's a good chance I'm wrong so take this with a pinch of salt) that you are having strong transference feelings for you T because of another relationship you have/had. So you probably do want something from him and, crap as it sounds, it might work out well for you to go with these feelings. Look at what you want and then discuss it with your T. Easier said than done. But if he's skilled and understanding he should be able to use this to help you make progress. Just my two cents. I have began to link up a lot of my feelings for my T to my relationship with my Dad and a lot of other people in my life. I feel like I'm joining the dots all the time. It's exhausting.

Love,
Mrs. P

Can't help it but I need to write down again how much I love and adore my shrink. Just came back from a session few hours ago, and managed to get some things said and it was soo wonderful.
Oh, my God... I idealize him totally. Can't help it. It's like I was waiting for him all my life. I told him how I love his eyes...
It was one of the most beautiful, intimate moments of my life to be there, see his beautiful big eyes and it felt like he really cared, like he was taking care of me... That's amazing
I see that part of me (bad parent?) is trying to tell me, that he doesn't care, you misinterpreted it, it wasn't so great, come on... Tries to minimize what I felt like then and shortly after...

P.S. Sorry for bragging so much... )))

I'm stuck. I don't feel too good really. I feel kind of worthless.

I broke up with my boyfriend and I felt so strong when it happened. I wasn't afraid of being alone. I was looking forward to it. But now I feel worthless and I miss desperately somebody who could love me. I know that decision to end this relationship was a good thing. I still love him to some extent, but I know I wasn't getting what I needed in this relationship, and he probably wasn't getting it either.

I'm stuck with my T. I managed to get out in the open some of my feelings and if felt just great. I was so happy about that, he made me so happy. Now I would need to get closer to him but I don't know how and I'm afraid of it. I'm not sure if I'm right, but I suppose I would have to open up more and become more vulnerable. I'm not able to do that. I don't know how. It frightens me.

I'm trying to put some words on the paper to read during the session but there is 99% probability that I will not read it. That I will change my mind and just throw it out. I don't even know if it makes any sense.

Again, if he was a woman I know I would be less afraid. Probably I wouldn't care so much to appear strong and attractive to her. Loving a man was always very stressful and terrifying experience. I was trying not to love him as a man, but as a therapist only. To extract the love for the therpist from all that I feel and tell only about this part.

I will have 3 weeks break between the sessions now. I'm fine with that. I know he will be back and I know he will not leave me. However I would like to experience some closeness before he goes and keep it for these 3 weeks while waiting for the next session, feed on this during the break.

He asked me if there is anything he could do, but there is nothing I can think of that would help me be closer to him. I don't even know if I can be closer. I saw him sort of waiting for me couple of times, but I couldn't and wouldn't do it. I sometimes see that he is sort of waiting to be with me, but I don't know for sure and I don't know how to move closer. I nearly feel desperate for his love now, if I can call it love (therapy love?). How to move closer?

Well, thanks HB, at least I know I'm on the right track.
But then I don't want to be on the right track because that leads eventually to the end of the road and not seeing him anymore!

Well, thanks anyway. I will try to enjoy and make the most of the wacky therapy world