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Hi Unbroken...

I would like to give you some thoughts I have on this but first I'd like to ask you a few questions if you would not mind answering. It would help me get a handle on this situation.

How often do you email her each week?

How long are the emails? Do you use them for processing or just for connection (for example... I need to know you are there or I feel anxiety about our last session, are we okay?)

Did she ever give you a specific email policy?

I have a few thoughts but don't want to jump to conclusions. I am sorry this has been so hard for you.

When I lost oldT I saw 4 T's before finding #5 (current T). The first one I saw once and knew he was NOT for me. The second one was okay and I actually knew him. He used to rent office space from oldT but now has a beautiful new office. I did not go back to him because there was no outside contact allowed except if I was suicidal! Number 3 was a woman I saw for ten sessions. I could occassionally email and/or call her which I did since I was so traumatized but she had nothing to offer me and she threw me under the bus in what was supposed to be a transition session with oldT. My trust was then shattered with her so I left after seeing her 2x week for 5 weeks.

I then saw a guy who was knowledgeable in trauma and I like him although he seemed rather reserved and strait-laced and he never offered outside contact. I saw him 3 times and during this time I was also checking out my current T. Once I met my current T and he was SO understanding of attachment and outside contact and had clear and consistent boundaries I knew he was the T for me and that my search was over. I had NO idea if I could ever attach to anyone again after oldT but he seemed to "fit" my requirements of a T.... male, 50ish, nice office close to mine, took my insurance, allowed email and calls, understood attachment and was damn smart LOL! So I stayed. And through lots of patience on his part and some determination on my part, I finally began to connect with him after 3 months. It finally seemed as if I found the right person, yet I was still so traumatized after oldT I had a hard time even "seeing" him. He was a blurry blob for many many weeks.

I tell you this because it does not mean that you are a failure or cannot do therapy or did something wrong if you are thinking of leaving this T or even just checking out another T. Sometimes I takes trying out many T's with different styles before you find your T soul-mate. As much as I get annoyed with my T, I know he is the best T for me and I know much of this is transference stuff. I feel very sure that I am with the T I should be with and the proof is in the amount of healing and progress we have made together.

Lastly, the stuff your T is trying to have you do is stuff that may be okay once you have made enough progress to handle that. Some of that stuff sounds hokey to me and I would have real problems doing that stuff. I think the real disconnect may come from the fact that you have not yet healed or processed what happened with oldT. Those abandonment fears are causing you to cling and be fearful with this T and her attitude and her inconsistencies are making those feelings more intense. Basically, it appears from what you say that she is making you feel less secure in the relationship.

I look forward to hearing back from you, Unbroken. I know this is so hard. Be kind to yourself.

TN
Hello Brokes. I’m sorry you’re running into the same crap with NewT as with your OldT. I really hope that a lot of it is your own fear and she doesn’t mean things in the way you are experiencing them (understandable because of what happened with OldT.) I wish there were something helpful or comforting I could say, I just don’t have the experience of being attached and can’t get inside your head (so to speak) to see how I would feel in your situation.

What I do feel though is that your T might be being too quick with the ‘healthy’ speak and not giving you enough of a feeling of safety in attachment to trust that she’s not pushing you away or punishing you for being so attached.

I haven’t read all of TN’s post yet (wanted to get this out there to give you some hugs and support) but from what I’ve read I think she speaks wise words Smiler.

I’m sorry I can’t offer more, I just hope you can bring all of how you feel up in next session and that your T can give you the reassurance you need.

((((( Brokes )))))

LL
Brokes. This is the bit that really bugs me.

The difference between individuation and dependency.

There is a huge school of thought out there that dependency is a BAD WORD. My T said to me at the beginning that she thinks that people who think dependency is bad are a load of crap (her words). She said I have to become dependent. Babies ARE dependent on their caregivers. You don't say to a baby - you must practice your individuation and you now self regulate while I randomly abandon you.

My T said to me that I must be dependent on her so I can go through all the processes and emotions that I missed out on.

Unfortunately for me....is that I am so freaked out about being dependent - I am stuck in that combatant and pushing her away phase and not trusting etc etc.

She has given it to me on a platter and is patiently waiting.

Individuation is a process - a long term process but dependency comes first and you might have to cycle through that phase for a very long time before individuation starts.

Do others agree with me?

When I say to my T that I am dependent on her and I hate it - she reassures me that I am doing all the right things and that she will be consistent and will be there for me no matter what comes up. She encourages it. I wish your T could see this....
Hi Unbroken Hi
quote:
Oh and she basically said that I need to accept imperfection.


I hate hearing this! "Let's look at why you have trouble accepting imperfection, and how I can improve to meet your needs better." There, that seems like a better T-like response.

I agree with what's been said, you probably haven't reached the stage where you're ready for 'individuation' and she's pushing you to be something that you're not. From everything that I've seen on this board, the most successful therapies seem to be based on the therapist being totally accepting of the client's attachment. I don't see how lecturing you on what you 'should' be doing helps in any way. All it does is make you feel rejected, and probably a whole host of other unpleasant things too Frowner

(SD-- in total agreement with you there, well said)

I'm sorry this is hard, Unbroken.

Good luck,
effed
Hey Brokes,

Sorry to hear you are struggling.

quote:
She's okay with attachment, but not the unhealthy stuff where it's like I can't breathe, or live without someone


I've read that some T's actually believe that they have to allow merger. Maybe it's what you need. IDK.

It just doesn't sound good, that's all. You sound really stressed.

About the control issue, haven't people who been traumatized had all their power and control taken away from them? Isn't the number 1 rule of trauma therapy to restore a sense of empowerment? I am not getting the sense that she is empowering you.

IDK, maybe the reason she's changing the time on you so that you don't get used to the consistency. Maybe she has some wierd rationale.

I just know that for me, I needed the consistency. It would have been hard for me to have a time that changed weekly.

Do you know what her orientation is? Even CBTer Dr. Jeffrey Young believes that borderlines should be in therapy twice a week for two years. If that wouldn't encourage dependency, I don't know what would?

Maybe ask her why she thinks dependency is so bad? There are some articles posted on her about dependency needs and how they might fluctuate during our lives depending upon what is going on. Maybe you can bring them to her.

You are who you are and it sounds like whatever she is doing is causing you TOO much distress. She just might not be the right therapist for you. Maybe whatever she does has worked for other people. But it doesn't sound like it's working for you. It's not you. Do you have any other options re: T's? Someone, I think TN, has posted a list of great questions to ask when interviewing T's. You deserve to have the best T for you.




Liese
quote:
My T said to me that I must be dependent on her so I can go through all the processes and emotions that I missed out on.



She has given it to me on a platter and is patiently waiting.

Individuation is a process - a long term process but dependency comes first and you might have to cycle through that phase for a very long time before individuation starts.

Do others agree with me?


SD... you are pretty wise yourself Smiler And I totally agree with you and your T.

When treating those patients with trauma and attachment injury good T's work in stages and stage one is developing trust, safety and the relationship itself. This is usually the longest stage of treatment because those of us who had been hurt interpersonally (within close relationships) have a very difficult time with trust, safety and object constancy. We cannot do ANY of that other stuff she is asking of you before this has been established and the relationship is on solid ground.

As SD notes, there are stages of development we did not experience as we should have and you will need to experience them with your T. Her fear of your dependency will not allow this to happen. She is actually doing the opposite. The more she allows you to be dependent, the less you will need her. I don't understand why T's just cannot understand this basic fact.

And her inconsistency is not allowing a healthy attachment to form. She is moving around too much and my oldT did the same thing. Changing appointment, cancelling for no good reason, allowing email, not allowing email, allowing certain kinds of email, saying he may or may not respond... all of that is crazy making stuff. It makes you want to cling more.

From what you say you are not contacting her much at all. As for the processing... so you now realize you are emailing more for the connection. Well if you need to connect and she refuses to respond to your need, then she is just reinforcing what happened to you as a child. We need to learn that our needs are okay and reaching out for connection should be met by her. Would it kill her to write back "I'm here and we are okay"?

The other complication you are having is that you are still working through the grief of losing your other T. Has she addressed this? Is she willing to talk about oldT and what happened and why and allow you to grieve and get angry over what happened? Does she not realize this makes it extra difficult for you to trust? I would ask her if she has worked with other patients who have come from past treatment failures? She is not showing any experience in this.

Lastly, I don't think she is trying to teach you anything about what failed with oldT. Brokes... I think YOU had a healthy attachment with oldT but oldT was the problem because she just could not handle it.

My honest opinion is that you go out and interview other Ts before you get too involved with this one. I see too many red flags here. I don't want to scare you but she is not able to provide the kind of therapy that you need to heal and I would not invest too much in her. There is nothing wrong with looking around for another T. You say you live in an area with lots of Ts? Start calling them and ask if they are willing to answser some questions via phone before you go in to see them. All the T's I saw after oldT gave me ten minutes on the phone for free. My current T answered all my questions perfectly... so he got the job LOL!

You don't have to end with her until you find someone else you like better. I think it would be a good experience for you to speak to other Ts. You shouldn't have to teach your T how to be a good T.

Keep us posted and good luck.

Hugs
TN
I agree with what TN just said completely. Inconsistency will only prolong the issues and it will likely make them worse. I feel like that is even harder than having a T that doesn't allow the dependency in the first place. Having one that sometimes does and sometimes doesn't is compounding the issues.

I agree, keep looking around and see if there is someone else that is a better fit for you.
Unbroken... don't be scared. Really. You don't have to leave until you find someone you fit with and that can help you. It's okay. Don't be scared.

I think you need a psychodynamic T with some knowledge of trauma or attachment or object relations. Someone who is comfortable with outside contact for connection and/or phone calls.

You have the power. You make the decisions here. You have our support. Breathe and take one step at a time.

Hugs
TN
I was talking to Brokes and Geeg recently and I said that I would love to get a bunch of "us" - together and we sit as an 'EXPERT PANEL' in a huge lecture theatre and the audience is filled with T's wanting to know about attachment, dependency, rejection, BPD - the works - and they ask us questions and we answer from our perspective. T's of the world need to be re-educated.

Listen up T's. Dependency is a GOOD thing.

Wouldn't this be awesome! We could all fly in from all over the world and let them learn from OUR experience.

I need to shut up about whinging about my T. I think she is one of the near-perfect ones. I just can't let myself yield to her attachment... Mental note - tell my T she is wonderful.

Brokes - I will be with you every step of the way no matter what you decide to do.

SD
Dear Brokes
I´m sad to hear that this T is hurting you.
She did sound so great in the beginning.

I have a feeling that she is not the right T for you. It seems like she has a different understanding of how people who have been traumatized as children can heal and become independent.

It seems to me that you can feel the same urge as I do to become dependent with your T.
I think that is not something T´s should avoid.
I felt the same with my old T. I think she was scared of my attachment towards her.
She thought I would become more independent if she would push me away. Then she reduced our appointments and became more absent. She asked me how is your progress in un-attaching to me.

I can tell you for sure that did not work. I tried, and tried... I told myself I just have to thrive on what I´ve got. I couldn´t eat, and couldn´t sleep. And three months later I was so exhausted I had to be admitted to the mental-ward.

I have been a preschool-teacher for 20 years. I know a lot about children's attachment. I know they have to be securely attached before they can become independent. When they are securely attached they are more willing to explore the world around them, they are willing to get to know other people and form good relationships with them. They are often happy and secure. They can do this because they know they have a safe place in their parents, and care givers.

I think you did not get that as a child, your needs for secure attachment were not met. It´s the same with me. It´s like I didn´t develop in this area. My way of coping was to take care of myself, not letting anyone get close to me, not letting anyone take care of me, "I can do it on my own" was my motto.

A psychiatrist once counted the therapists I have been doing therapy with, she said they were more than 20. I could not trust any of them, I almost couldn´t talk to them, and I remember countless hours of embarresing silence, trying to figure out what I was supposed to say, and I knew the pattern on their rugs better than anything about myself.

When I could attach with oldT, finally something happened in my 23 years search for healing.
But oldT did not handle it the right way, and it hurt me really bad. Just like with your old T.

I think you have to ask new T;

If she thinks the right way to deal with "attachment-disruption" is to get further away from the person.

If she is willing to let you be attached to her for a while, be your safe place, until the time comes when YOU are ready to slowly un-attach.

Or just ask her how she feels about you attaching to her. If she is ok with it, and what she thinks is the best way to grow from that.

When I was looking for a new T, I felt psychoanalysis would be the right therapy for me. I like what Freud and his followers have written about transference. Too bad we have very few psychoanalysts in my small country, and the 2 I thought I could possibly work with could not work with me. But I´m sure I´ll try again later.

Brokes, please let us know how your session goes to day. Hope you will feel better soon. I can really relate to what you are going through.
HUG FOR YOU BROKES
Little Me
(((Brokes)))

Thank you for sharing this journey with us. I am having many of the same feelings right now and wondering if my T is okay with the attachment. If she even mentions skipping a week or meeting less frequently for some reason I get Terrified and angry, and I feel like she doesn't understand this feeling or how to deal with it.

But maybe I just need to open up more about how I feel and really ask her how she feels about this attachment which I fear is becoming dependence.

You are giving me courage to talk to her more about it.
Coco. Opening up and being honest and raw is the key. You have to have trust first before you can do that. It is when you are honest and you talk about the really hard stuff that the attachment really happens. My T and I talk about attachment and dependency all the time - sometimes I take articles in to her or excerpts of what people have said on the forum and we discuss it together. So this way means it is less threatening.

SD
I meant the constant self defeating "inner dialogue" that takes place within my mind. I beat myself up really bad, assume people feel a certain way about me, or look for hidden meanings in what others say, do, or in how they behave towards me. I've struggled with this for a very long time, and I have always known that about myself.

I also shop which is a physical manifestation of my inner turmoil, of course. But for some time I saw shopping as a hobby but I started realizing that I was trying to get a fix. I was looking for that high, something to make me feel good. For a few hours, I'd be on top of the world and then I'd crash and burn. That's another way that I am acting out destructively.

I also use food to heal some of my pain.

So, T and I discussed those behaviors and talked about the feelings behind them. We are going to work on identifying the painful feelings, having me share them with her, and discuss ways in which I can get an emptiness inside of me met in other ways.

Does that make sense?
That’s great news Unbroken!

Sounds like you needed to get to the point of, what the hell I’ve nothing to lose so I may as well be as honest as I can in order to open up to T, and it paid off handsomely. I’m so pleased you’ve managed to connect so deeply with her and that you don’t have to go through the pain of trying to find another T. And also glad that things with this T are sounding so positive.

By the way, did you cancel with the other T you’d decided to see in the end? It sounds like you have no need of her anyway, but I just wondered.

LL

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