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my session with T

I incognitoMember
I had my session yesterday and before I went I wrote my T an email describing how I felt hopeless and worthless in my session on wednesday(and usually). I linked my feelings of worthlessness in part to my fear that my T doesn't like me or wishes that I didn't come see him. My T expanded that desire to be liked to include the desire to be accepted and understood and to know he was good with making time for me and being with me.

My T told me that while I can be funny and intelligent and am a good storyteller he is always aware of a deep current of pain in the room so he can't relax into a simple liking of some of my qualities/behaviour. He told me he knew I performed well but he paid attention to the painful, confused, scared parts of me because that seemed more honest. He said that he thought I had so much difficulty with the therapeutic relationship because I couldn't believe that someone wanted to be with the parts of myself that I don't like and I've always had to hide. My T has shown me consistently that he is there for me but I still doubt him.

I felt better after the session last night but I've spent today alternating between feeling incredibly needy, too much for my T, afraid etc. My T asked me to write him and tell him what I got from the session and I did. One of the things I said was that I thought he chose to be with me because it was his job and it wasn't about liking it was a choice (we also talked in the session about how he could choose to work with people who had less pain than I did). I then said that I knew he could make a difference choice in the future and I wondered how we would talk about it. Now I'm consumed with the fear that my pain is too much for my T and that at any moment or session he might decide he doesn't choose to make time for me anymore.

I think I started this conversation to try and reduce my fears about T and I'm still freaking out. It is a different freaking out but still. Is this how everyone feels? at any moment someone you love and need could decide they don't want to be with you anymore or could be hit by a bus. If so how do you live with that fear and still try to reach out to them? How do you continue to talk about your pain when that might be the thing that drives someone away? or question them? or get angry with them?

I have another session with my T tomorrow and I'm glad because I can get a chance to talk about this some more but I'm also afraid. If your T has said something that helped you with your fears what was it?
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L lieseMember
Hi Incognito,

Your session sounded difficult and it sounds like you are struggling with many of the same things I am. How long have you seen your T? Has your relationship been generally good? It's interesting that you are worrying that your pain might be too much for your T in the future. That you feel too needy. I feel the same way. And he's letting me right now be as needy as I want to be. I told my T yesterday that I'm too big a project for him. He said no. Do you think if we just go with it for a second that our t's actually might not like us but that there are things we want to get out of therapy anyway and we like working with our T's so screw them if they don't like us? We are the paying client. Why are we giving them so much power? Maybe I'll start bossing him around tomorrow.


Really when we think about it, the present IS all we have. There are no guarantees. I just wonder if the difference for people like us is learning who to trust. I've been drawn consistently to the same types of people and get hurt. Some people will always be bossy or pushy. Or maybe they will be emotionally unavailable.

Your T must mean a lot to you for you to feel this way. It's a very important relationship. You really asked some honest (and scary) questions. I think it's great that you were able to talk about what you did with your T. You asked for really important feedback and he gave you some. Those conversations are hard for me because I don't always like what T's answers are. He told me he doesn't say what people want to hear. He's a tough cookie.

I don't know if you are anything like me but before therapy I prided myself on being independent, although I don't think I really was. I was just kind of kidding myself. It's been very hard (and scary) letting T in to begin with. Feeling all those emotions that I had locked up was really difficult (and, again, scary). And then on top of it, to have to worry about being abandoned after I've finally let someone in. I guess in all reality we have to live day to day. We don't know what will happen tomorrow. Something very unthinkable. Even something good that would be lifechanging, like you could win the lottery. (That would be nice!!!)

Maybe just by going back and facing your fears and seeing that he's still there and going back next week and doing the same thing over and over again, your fear will finally dissipate? That's what I'm hoping for.

(((((HUGS))))))

Liese

Hope it goes okay tomorrow. Let me know.
I incognitoMember
Liese,

I've been seeing my T for 2.75 years and for the most of the last year I've been seeing him twice a week. He has always been very consistent. He is there for me in sessions and I can call him or email him during his normal office hours and most of the time he replies fairly quickly. He's even gone above and beyond his usual boundaries like allowing me to email him over his Christmas break (I sent him one email and he replied) and last summer when I was having a really difficult time and our vacations made regular sessions impossible we even had a phone session while he was on vacation. And still I have trouble trusting him.

I think I didn't realize that he felt like I had more pain than most of his clients until today. I always feel like a whiner who overreacts to my childhood. I agree it has taken me a long time to open up to my T and it is incredibly hard realizing that I need him so much and he might not be there. I know that is true for all the relationships in our life (afterall accidents occur) but I don't know how people live with that fear right now the fear is screaming louder than anything I get from my T.

I don't think I thought I was independent before T because I always felt alone through my childhood and I knew I could only depend on myself but I longed for someone I could lean on. My definition of independence is someone who doesn't need others and I always needed other people I just couldn't trust them. I may have appeared independent to others though.

Thanks for writing Liese it has helped me work through some things.

Di
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
quote:
at any moment someone you love and need could decide they don't want to be with you anymore or could be hit by a bus. If so how do you live with that fear and still try to reach out to them? How do you continue to talk about your pain when that might be the thing that drives someone away? or question them? or get angry with them?


(((( Incognito))) I'm so sorry you are suffering but I'm glad you are taking the steps to reach out here and talk to us about it.

I think I have learned from losing two attachment figures so far in my life, most recently my oldT, that I CAN survive losing important people and that I can find the resources to deal with it. Of course, I would rather not have to lose someone I love, but we all lose people we love and if we never love or attach that does not really protect us and aside from that we are not even living life.

Aside from that you ask how can you be sure that your pain won't drive your T away? Well, I think that because it's YOUR pain and it feels so vastly overwhelming to you that you think it will feel the same way to your T. It won't. He will feel some pain of course and empathy but he will be able to deal with it because these are feelings and they cannot harm him or hurt him. They are only feelings from the past and he is well trained to help you contain them and they won't scare him off. Have you ever seen him look afraid of you? My new T tells me all the time that I am NOT at all scary and that if I EVER think I see him look afraid of me I need to bring it to his attention and we need to discuss it. He knows how sensitive I am to this... that I will overwhelm him with my "stuff". I'm sure you are not scary to your T either incognito... he is just sad that you are in so much pain.

And by his actions, he seems quite committed to you and very accepting of your need for outside contact and twice weekly sessions.

I think the biggest comfort I find these days is watching my T. Not so much listening to him say he does not terminate patients because oldT said that too and look what happened. But by watching my new T.. . he is well trained and educated and has great experience with others like me, he is absolutely consistent in how he behaves, he never gets defensive, he has good boundaries, does not overly self-disclose, makes it about me not him... all of this is good stuff that to me spells ... safety and trust and security. So this is what i have learned. To look at how they act not what they say because it does not matter what they say if they ACT unreliable and inconsistent.

I hope this helps you a bit. And I hope your session goes well tomorrow and you can find some calm and peace from seeing your T again.

Best,
TN
L lieseMember
Incognito,

I don't know how to copy people's quotes so I'm going to try to paraphrase something you said above: "I always feel like a whiner who overreacts to my childhood." Incognito, I have felt the same way. Actually I was told throughout my childhood that I was overreacting to everything. and, so I started to ignore my pain. But then I got to adulthood and found that ignoring my pain had terrible consequences.

I'm wondering if your T, by mentioning your overwhelming pain to you, is calling it to your attention not because he's going to get tired of you and reject you because you have so much pain, but because he's trying to bring it to your attention. you are in a lot of pain. maybe he wants to help you work through it and release it, finally, once and for all.

Have you talked to your T that you feel you are overreacting to your childhood pain? When I look at photos of me from 11 years old on, it's clear that I'm completely depressed. T and I recently talked about my brother and how out of control he was and how my family minimized what was happening and how scary my house was growing up because of that. He validated for me that my house was scary. And then, how we all used to just beat each other up viciously. there was so much anger all around. no love anywhere. finally acknowledging to myself, you know what? it really sucked. I was really unhappy. And i can see why now finally. I wasn't a big whiner. I had a lot of reasons to be unhappy.

I read recently that people who didn't receive validation as children come from adult-oriented homes. when I look back, that's exactly what it was. it was all about my parents. they went out regularly. we hardly ever did anything as a family. I don't remember them hugging me and telling me they loved me. not once. I remember them telling me to go away because I was a whiner and a pain in the ass. would you treat your child like that? if your child was whining, would you not ask yourself what was wrong? what need isn't being met?

I don't know what your childhood was like. But maybe you and T need to do some work validating the reasons for your unhappiness and then maybe you will be able to move past it?

I always felt alone too. I'm sorry if that came across wrong. I just don't think I could admit to myself that I felt lonely. And, so, I considered myself independent. Which, it turns out, I really wasn't afterall.

((((((HUGS))))))

Liese
S sadlyMember
quote:
he is well trained and educated and has great experience with others like me, he is absolutely consistent in how he behaves, he never gets defensive, he has good boundaries, does not overly self-disclose, makes it about me not him... all of this is good stuff that to me spells ... safety and trust and security. So this is what i have learned. To look at how they act not what they say because it does not matter what they say if they ACT unreliable and inconsistent.


Your T Icognito, sounds like he is the real thing and so will not leave you because of the pain that feels so overwhelming to you.

I know the place of doubt, cos it feels like NO ONE else in our lives have been able to handle our pain, they don't like it, so the T won't either. but the T is used to this level of pain - it is his job - it is mangageable for him.

I too, like TN - have been assured that they will not walk away and they have walked away - which is why I quote TN on how you tell a good T - they ACT properly, it is not what they say, it is how they ARE.

I think it is very constructive that you are feeling all this and taking it into sessions and talking about it, it is deep and fruitful work and I think your T sounds like he is WELL able to handle it. Thank you for posting about this - as I think we all can feel like this somtimes.

I too feel that my pain in my child hood is me whining and that it is silly of me to hurt still etc. but no one listened then and it DID hurt a lot, so I am so grateful really when my sweetP listens now.

why not 'indulge' a little and let your T hear and see and know the pain you carry? Just as an experiment?
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Hi incognito... I was just wondering how you were doing and how your session went today. I hope it helped and you are feeling better.

I also wanted to say that it's okay to need people... even cyber people, it does not make you a dependent person. We all need somebody at times in our life. Humans are all interdependent on each other. I understand how you always felt alone as a child, having to handle things by yourself. Children are not supposed to be doing that. I had to do it too. There was never anyone to turn to and so I learned to do it for myself or to not need or want it (whatever it was). It's a sad thing and I do understand how that plays out when you become an adult. I've done a lot of grieving over that.

Be kind to yourself.
TN
I incognitoMember
TN,

thanks for asking. I have an evening appointment on wednesday so I've just arrived home. It was a good session. I told my T I wasn't sure I could live with the fragility of life and the fear that he was going to send me away. I was very upset and admitted that we keep having the same conversation where I try to get reassurance from him. He was understanding about that pain and told me we needed to keep having the conversation because we weren't talking about something that I needed to understand cognitively it was about impacting my understanding at a deep, nonverbal, implicit level and we were impacting that by continuing to show up and talk about it.
It was good.

Then we switched and talked about some other things and I was much more open about some things that I've been avoiding talking about. For the first time ever I didn't watch the clock and I was so into the conversation I was surprised when my T did his ending routine. I feel so much better and I'm trying to enjoy that feeling for however long it lasts. My T ended with "Let's try and revisit this on Monday or before that if we need to" which is kind of his invititation to contact him if I need to which we've discussed to death.

I am a very slow learner. Thank you everyone for listening and supporting me.
Di
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
quote:
He was understanding about that pain and told me we needed to keep having the conversation because we weren't talking about something that I needed to understand cognitively it was about impacting my understanding at a deep, nonverbal, implicit level and we were impacting that by continuing to show up and talk about it.


incognito... that was a beautiful and amazing response by your T. This man really gets it and I feel secure that you are in good hands with him. I agree with Pan that you are really doing good work and making progress. I also like that he reminds you that you can contact him in between sessions.

I know that good feeling you speak of and sometimes it lasts with me for a few days, sometimes a few hours, sometimes it's gone when I reach my car. But if it goes away too fast I reach out for my T and he's there and it really helps to keep that connection until I see him again. I hope your good feelings lasts at least until your next session.

Thanks for sharing your session with us.
TN

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