I think right now you are getting a very good look at a self state you have...a place in your mind you go when you are triggered. While it feels like utter crap to be in that place, it's actually helpful to be able to observe it. You already did a good job describing it here, but you could do a little more if you want. What does it feel like in your body? What thoughts go through your head?

After you have had enough of observing it, you can find a way to shift out of it (the most important thing to know is you CAN shift out of it. It's not all of you, it's just a state of mind you can either be in or not). Can you think of a time when you felt stronger, more sure of yourself? Or imagine what you would say to a friend in your position? Think of a place, person, or animal that is comforting to you? Do an activity you enjoy?

Good luck with it. I know I've been in a very similar state and it was absolutely awful...

(((AH)))

I’m sorry you’re feeling so crappy. I hope you were able to get some sleep last night and things aren’t looking so bleak this morning. I know for me sleep (and food if I haven’t eaten all day) can make a huge difference in my state of mind.

It sounds like even though you are tired and want to give in to the fantasy that everything was coming from you, there is a part of you that knows that isn’t true and doesn’t want to give in. It might seem like giving up and just going along with whatever your T wants/says is the way to go, and it certainly is easier, but you’re not helping either yourself or your T by doing that. (But if that’s where you are right now, so be it. If you don’t go into it at all in today’s session, that’s OK. This won’t be your only chance to bring it up.)

Good luck today.

(((BLT))) New T talked about that today, being able to recognize these states, and looking for cues in the body connected with thoughts. The shifting out is going to be the challenge, but I am glad to know there is a way out. Distracting/ soothing things are usually my go to, but I feel if I could get my sleep sorted it would go a long way toward feeling better. I'm sorry you've been in this place, it is terrible

(((nannabee))) thank you for the soothing words and well wishes. It helps me to see things as a fantasy of it being just me, I'd actually never thought of it in those terms. And the reminder that this isn't only chance to bring things up. I tend to pressure myself on appointment days to go full throttle and end up feeling disappointed when I can't, the idea of being gentle with myself is a less overwhelming

(((pengs))) I so appreciate your post too, and the hugs, and believing me. It is true the internal war gets so so exhausting. Some days there is nothing left to battle with, especially when there is physical exhaustion on top. I've always thought of it as 'my mother tongue' is to self blame, and my 2nd language is to challenge that self blame. The translation takes so much energy, and it's awful when the energy runs out.

Thank you guys for support



************ today's session update ***********

I am really, really exhausted. I got very little sleep last night, and was in such a fog when I arrived for appointment. I wanted to just sleep on the couch instead of sit and talk

In a nutshell, things are better. And I feel like new T is reasonable enough to accept my criticisms without getting defensive. That's what I always remembered about her, and I kept a deep hope in me that she still held that quality.

Things started out with her asking me how I'd been since last session, and I was still in a very shut down place. I shrugged and gave her a less than heartfelt 'fine I guess.' I could tell she wouldn't let me get away with that

But despite her prying for a more honest answer, I couldn't bring myself to be anymore transparent than that at that point. She finally backed off and suggested we work on a project together of making a journal template for me to track my moods, sleeping, eating patterns. It sent me over the edge for some reason, and my resolve to bring up my issues about last session came roaring up from the depth of somewhere I can't even identify. Maybe the kid in me was screaming out at that point to be heard. "No..." was all I could force out of me though. She asked again what I wanted to work on instead.

I took a deep breath and dove head first in the deep waters again, despite still very much being in that place of complete self doubt.

Me: "I'm really worried that you won't hear what I'm telling you about exT objectively."

T: "That's a legitimate concern, and I'm really glad you brought it up. I don't want you to feel worried that I'll think less of him because of what you told me. I will admit.... I did see something he posted on facebook when I went home that night, and I really connected it to a lot of things you said about your experience, and it bothered me... but I don't want you to feel worried that what you say will make me hate him, I know you care about him and want to protect him and"

Me: "NO!!!! no. no. no. no. I mean objective for me, objective that you won't... I don't know. Just... just forget it." (and I had some serious reaction to hearing about his FB account, partly that I desperately wanted to know what it said, but felt I wouldn't get an answer if I asked, and the rejection of no answer would really sting. The other part was just the thought of him enjoying life while I suffer- I know that's an over reaction, as if being on FB somehow equates 'living it up'?? but it made me cringe. Then I decided whatever it said would only hurt me more so I told myself don't ask. I was mad that she told me.)

T: "wait, you feel like I've been defending him?"

me: "well yeah. you are defending him!"

T: "I'm sorry. I don't want to invalidate your experience at all. I haven't been sensitive enough about that, and I'm trying to get my footing for a feel of how much validation to give versus challenging your views when they may not be serving your best interest."

me: "I don't get that? Why do you need to challenge me? That sends me straight to a place of questioning my mind, this is exactly what my parents did to me. If I brought up anything I felt was mistreatment they forced me to question my mind, until I felt like everything was always my fault."

T: "I see, that makes sense. If it's ok I'd like to explain where I was coming from with that? I truly don't mean to defend him. My first priority is you, and your experience. As far as objectivity, I'd be lying if I said I am 100% unbiased, because we are discussing someone that I have a preconceived impression about. And I can't promise that I'll never work with him again, so I don't want that possibility to surprise or scare you. But my job is to not let that interfere with hearing you and validating you, so I'll have to keep reevaluating if I'm doing that adequately. When I say challenging your views, that comes from my CBT perspective. I have a fear of letting you fall into black and white thinking with exT or anything else, because that ultimately hurts you in the long run. I know when we worked through your feelings toward your parents, they were in your mind either complete monsters and then you gave yourself permission to protect yourself, or they were perfect and awesome and you viewed yourself as worthless. It was very either or.

I was trying to keep your view of exT from slipping to either extreme, because what happened before is it was very difficult for you to re-balance once that pattern started. I am hoping that you'll ultimately be able to see the full picture of exT as being an imperfect person who had some strengths and showed times of caring, but bottom line made some terrible mistakes and had some very incompetent moments with you. If you have that full picture of him in place, then if you hear or see something positive about him you won't backslide into 'wait... if that good thing about him is true, then he must be perfect, and I must be worthless and wrong about everything.' That's what I meant by the statement about no absolute truth. But it sounds like that didn't take your pain into account first, and I'm sorry for that. Why don't you give me a fuller picture of what happened and I'll just listen, if you're ready."

me:
I struggled through tears to tell her as much as I could, I really poured my heart out. And she kept quiet, giving me empathetic nods and what sounded like sighs of pain or disapproval toward exT. She never jumped in with any criticisms of him, but that was ok with me I think. I'd experienced so much of exT's wildly intense reactions during sessions, and needing me to comfort him, that to have someone who was empathetic but contained was a little of a relief. I felt more stability to not wonder if she'd fly off with some intense reaction. I did pause when I got back around to the 'hot and sexy' comment. I begged her to forgive me for bringing that up again, but it tortured me (all the other stuff did too, but I felt worse about that since she mentioned it wasn't so bad in certain contexts)

I asked her how could she say that was ok or appropriate? I was shocked that she would condone that, I never would have guessed her to react that way to me telling her he said that to me.

T: "I thought about it a lot this week, and I was wrong. I was just wrong. I can't say why I tried to normalize that one, but I imagined if I would ever say that to you, and I never could picture a context of using that kind of language with you. It's just not appropriate. There is no context to speak with a client like that and expect them to not be damaged by it. I sincerely hope that he was corrected for that at the clinic. If I'm being really honest, I think the fact that he was going back to school there with experience under his belt made him very much less monitored. From the dynamic I observed, people falsely assumed that his 8 years experience made it unnecessary to check up on his behavior in the same way the new students were supervised. And since the session was recorded, I can only pray someone caught it after the fact and straightened him out.

I really hurt to know that you went to someone for help and they caused so much more pain. It sounds like our priority is addressing this before we can even get back to the original issues you came to therapy for, and that really sucks. You know, it was drilled in my head about a thousand times in school the importance of boundaries. I understood it from a textbook point of view, but it wasn't until this moment that even I really get it. Now I really, truly see what happens when a T can't hold those and how much pain it causes."

By the time I'd gotten through all of my story, I looked at the clock and we'd gone 30 minutes over. I felt horrible I told her I was so sorry, I didn't mean to do that. She told me to stop because she was aware of the time, and felt this was more important than telling me to get out in the middle of talking. Her schedule allowed it and I didn't need to worry about it. (Another thing I will have to readjust to, the idea of T taking care of me, and not the other way around!!)

One side note that really touched my heart... there were about 5 times she referenced things from our past work together, and I know she hasn't gotten copies of her notes from back then. They were things I'd only mentioned once or twice, and a couple things I'd honestly forgotten all about. I was really taken aback and stunned that those tiny details were still with her. I can't begin to wrap my head around her caring that much, but the idea of it is kinda cool

She ended things by telling me she was extremely proud of me, and absolutely wanted me to challenge her when she just wasn't getting it. She said "this is where the real work gets done. The ruptures and repairs are what become models for you to use with other people in your life. When someone isn't treating you fairly, they just aren't listening, and you've built up practice in here of standing for yourself, you'll know you can do it again. Your parents never taught you that essential life skill, they punished you for attempting it instead. Now my job is to help heal that wound, and teach you how to feel ok about saying- no, you aren't meeting my needs. I do want you to trust yourself. I want you to know I care and you come first. But I am very imperfect, I do dumb things all the time, and I hope you'll trust me enough to tell me when I'm just not getting it right, because I'll never punish you for that. I will only be proud of you."



Now this... THIS is the T I remember. This is the one who made leaps and bound progress with me. This is the one I was so afraid I'd never see again after our first meeting. It all came back to me, I didn't love her for being perfect. I loved her for admitting when she wasn't and doing her best to adjust and understand where I was coming from.

This is the T I love, and that I can see now... does love me too.

((((AH))))

I experienced gas lighting in my childhood and know how horribly invalidating it feels. What I've started to say to myself is, so what? so what if I'm too sensitive? It's the way I am and being in touch with my feelings is the only way I can protect myself. It's the only "truth" I know.

Have you ever knew someone who was bothered by something you weren't? When that happened to me, I used to think there was something wrong with me for not sharing their sensitivity. When and where does invalidating ourselves end?

I don't believe anymore that there is such a thing as too sensitive. You are the way you are for a reason. My daughter didn't like the car as a baby because she gets motion sickness. We could have told her she was too sensitive. But there is a real reason she was sick. And there is a real reason you are hurting.

Hope your session went okay today.

(((liese)))

I really liked your line of thought about this...

quote:

Have you ever knew someone who was bothered by something you weren't? When that happened to me, I used to think there was something wrong with me for not sharing their sensitivity. When and where does invalidating ourselves end?

quote:

there is a real reason she was sick. And there is a real reason you are hurting.

Thank you liese, that all means a lot to me

How wonderful, AH - she sounds brilliant, and I'd guess you're in very safe hands.

You're very brave to have told her how it made you feel, and it seems she reacted in a very caring way, it is great! I hope you can keep this honesty in the relationship!

Wow AH what an excellent session - your T's reactions were great - she sounds brilliant, open and caring and a good fit for you.

((AH)) What an amazing session with your new T. She really sounds like a "true gem". I'm am so proud of your honesty, and directness, and really saying what you feel, and what your needs are. You are such a great example for all.

AH... I am so glad you were able to be open and honest with your new T and that she responded so well and appropriately. I'm also glad she appreciates a challenge because you are darn smart and very determined to heal. You will keep her on her toes. And it's good that you allow her to take care of YOU this time around. My T insists that I DO NOT try to take care of him. He said I did that enough in my life and now I need someone to take care for me. I used to bring my oldT home cooked food and my T will absolutely not allow me to do this for me. We have argued about it but I do see his point (darn guy LOL).

I look forward to hearing more about your therapy with this T. I hope she continues to be supportive, understanding with enough boundary holding to keep you safe.

Hugs
TN

Thank you all for the wonderful support After I wrote my never ending post I really struggled with whether I should keep it up, I felt silly for some reason But I think since things have been so raw lately I notice those times are harder for me to keep the deletion spells at bay. All of your responses really meant a lot to me

(((pengs))) Thank you lovely I didn't even recognize it to be hard work at the time, just felt like I was flailing about, so hearing that from you really made me feel good about it

(((jones))) thank you also! I feel like she's pretty safe hands from memory of our history together and this session. I still have a bit of caution up just in case, but think we might be getting back in sync.

(((about))) I really appreciate hearing this was brave, I felt like anything but at the time. Being honest about feelings is so scary, and when someone is kind to taking those leaps of faith it's a foreign but wonderful experience!

(((morgs))) thank you for post, I'm really relieved it went better and had good reactions. I always remembered the things you said about her being true, and it's a relief to find the same person is still there. Hoping it keeps going this direction!

(((eme))) thank you for being proud of me honestly the support of knowing all of you guys are here and listening makes such a huge difference, and makes those scary sessions a little less awful feeling!

(((TN))) You're really too kind thank you I so love that your T doesn't let you take care of him this time around too. It is difficult sometimes to wrap one's mind around letting the other person do the care taking, when you've been so used to the other way around! I know what you mean about it feeling frustrating at times because it's so... different!! Thank you for all of the support

Big hugs to all and much thanks, I will keep updating how it goes!