Liease ~ it is always wonderful when you post! I'm sorry this is scary for you, it is for me too.

My reg T has a release to speak to my doctor (well my soon to be former doctor). My reg T tells me about every time they talk, what they talk about, how it went, anything she recommended to the doctor or vice versa. She is quite open about it, and that has helped me build trust in her talking with my doctor, and overall. The loss of control, and the sense that I'm giving them more power, that is very hard on me. I think it is probably why my T is so careful to tell me what they talk about. It is easy now to let her, and I don't feel like I need to know what they say when they do talk.

My two Ts (reg T and eq T) have a release to speak to each other too. I'm not actually sure if they have yet... but I tend to keep one updated on basic things we are working on with the other... One time my eq T called reg T, and reg T told me she was trying to reach eq T and felt bad for not calling her back sooner... In the end, I ended up being the only one anxious about if one had reached the other. sigh.

I get worried that one T will one say something that will scare the other one off or something... or say something that will shift things in a direction I don't want to go... But it hasn't happened yet with my two current Ts and doctor.

With my old T, things did get weird when she spoke to my old doctor. It was a mess. But the whole therapy relationship was a diaster.

I hope it goes well for you... let us know... it is a big step to take, a risk, and it can really help. Does your T know you are worried about it?

~ jane

Thanks for the reassurance Jane and AG.

Jane, I may ask T to tell me what Pdoc says. That could help a lot with the loss of control issues. I just got the impression today that Pdoc thinks I have huge problems. It's kind of like, well, yes, I know I'm struggling but when you go to a professional and have to face the reality that you have psychological problems, it just gets scary.

AG, yes, all I can think is that the Pdoc is going to tell my T I'm hopeless and why are you helping her? And yes, I'm afraid that yes, he will tell T I'm a wingnut.

But why do they need to talk? How can my T help Pdoc and how can Pdoc help my T?

I only switched Pdocs because the other one was too far away. The other one never asked to talk to my T and my T never asked to talk to him. When I told T I was switching and that I was dreading telling my story again and I didn't feel a need to talk to anyone seeing as I talk to my T. T agreed with me, he didn't think it was necessary.

I have a session with T tomorrow and I have so many other things to talk about and don't really want to waste too much time sorting through this but I can see it's going to need some attention.

Hi Liese,

Funny you posted about this, as I was just talking with friend (not the one who keeps cancelling on me, btw!) about how much I appreciate that my "team" really is a team.

Here's my situation and thoughts -

I started with my general dr. like 10 years ago - she's awesome and I love her. She actually recommended I see the T I work with, who is amazing. After a month with my T, she suggested a Pdoc for meds, so I took her referral. At first, I was the one communicating between the two of them, but I wasn't doing a great job with that, so when my T offered to talk to Pdoc for me, I jumped at that chance. A few months later, there was something else that came up, and my T asked if I'd prefer she relay it to my general dr, which I again, was glad to agree to, cause then I didn't have the responsibility of coordinating treatment.

Fast forward to May, when food became an issue and on the recommendation of my T, I started working with a registered dietitian (RD). As that progressed, it became evident that my doctors really needed to be able to communicate with each other. That takes all the pressure off of me to relay information, and actually has been really helpful in coordinating my treatment - med adjustments, behavior changes, mood, attitude, etc. I signed only two releases - one for my T to speak with my dr, pdoc, and RD, and one for my RD to speak with my T and dr (she doesn't need to talk to the pdoc, she gets that info from my dr or T)

For me, it's been incredibly supportive - yes, I had to tell my story three times (T, pdoc, RD - dr. knew most of it already over the years) but I didn't need to go into much detail with the pdoc as his involvement is strictly med related. It makes me feel well cared for, actually, for the first time in my life. I know that if I have a bad day, I can tell either my T or RD (I see them weekly) and they are both going to be able to support me with whatever it is, since they are both on the same page.

My experience has been really positive, I trust each member of my team individually, and having them communicate only helps me better heal!

Hi Liese, I've always given my Ts permission to talk with anyone else that I've seen and there's never been a problem. I think trust is the biggest issue and I am going to give the person I'm paying the benefit of the doubt and trust him to do what is right for me. I remember in the beginning my T wanted to talk with the supervisor of the T that abandoned me. At first I said I didn't want that. However, when he expressed that he thought it would help, I said yes. I've also had a lot of experience with a treatment team when my daughter was in a residential programs. I think they are great. Your treatment team is there for you and you should be able to be privy to any of the information. You're so sweet. Love, ND

R2G and DF,

Thank you so much for the reassuring stories. It didn't help that when I went to take a xanax, I mindlessly grabbed the wellbutrin bottle and took a second dose accidentally. I had to call poison control. If I was a little skinnier, they probably would have sent me to the hospital. There are times when that extra weight comes in handy. LOL!!

I was wondering if PDoc would ask him questions about me, like wondering about SU and SI. I was also wondering if he would ask him about my H, if he's abusive - that kind of stuff.

It was just so scary because he seemed distressed by my story. And, I'm like, wow, that's just my life. Until I went to therapy, I didn't know all this stuff had so much significance. It just was. And now I'm some kind of case that needs treatment and treatment teams. I'll get over it. But thanks to everyone for being so supportive. I did call T's office to talk to him but he had just walked out 2 minutes earlier. It just felt nice to reach out to him and once I did, I felt as though I could wait until tomorrow to talk to him. Didn't want to bother him at home.

In my case, my T had a release to talk to the Pdoc I saw for three visits and has one to talk to my pastor too, because he was providing outside support. My Pdoc also had a release to talk to my T. No contact was ever made in either direction. I guess it never got necessary.

((ND)) We cross-posted. I am so glad your experiences have been positive also. I've really calmed down since last night. These consults are so freaky to me. You meet a stranger and go from 0% intimacy to 100% intimacy in an hour or less. I have a bad habit of hiding the details of my life, even stuff just related to siblings that have nothing to do with me and so not a lot of people know my whole story. It's just a very vulnerable experience for me.

(((YAKU))) Thanks for your experience as well. That's interesting that no contact was made in either direction. I hadn't thought that might be a possible outcome. That would make me very happy. I couldn't really get a handle on this pdoc. He's the first psychiatrist I've been to. He was a big man. He was very nice but still there was something there that was intimidating. When he was asking me about my breakdown last year and I told him that I asked T if he cared about me because therapy is a different kind of relationship and you don't get the same feedback that you do as a friendship is developing, he interrupted and went on and on about oh yes it is very different and there are many boundaries, etc. It made me feel so disgusting. I know the boundaries are there for a reason but when "they" talk about them like that, it makes me feel like a pariah or like as if I wanted more, there would be something wrong with me. And I am just human. I've known this man for four years. How could I not develop positive feelings for him? If I only had negative feelings or never had to sort through this boundary stuff, I don't know, it would just seem odd to me. I guess the securely attached just go and emotionally maybe they never get attached, maybe that's the difference and they don't even have the same issues with the emotions that we do.

Like, in my mind, they act as if they can only come within so many feet of us. I don't know. And also as if they are always so clear about the boundaries and we are the only ones who have difficulties with them. And we all know that isn't true. Maybe I'm just reading way into what he was saying but .... with that extra wellbutrin dose, my mind was going to all sorts of places.

Thanks everyone for your support. It helped me get throught the night.

I have a treatment team and it's been the best thing for me. My T has called my PCP a couple of times. Once when I was at my session with him, another when I was avoiding my T and he felt I was "in danger of hurting myself". Which was true! Another time my T wanted to call my PCP again during my session, but I freaked out and said I didn't want to, so he didn't do it. But, insisted I make an appt. to see the PCP about my meds use and email my T back with the date/time.

Since a chronic health issue is part of my life I have signed releases for everyone on my team. my T, PCP, PT, OT, pharmacist, and OBY/GYN. It did feel scary at first, but because my T handled it all so well, it ended up being a good thing. And I always get filled in on any conversations, or get to pre-read any letters sent out.

Good luck. tacy

Tacy,

Thanks for sharing your positive experience too. It doesn't seem like anyone has had any bad experiences except for some creepy pdocs but those situations were taken care of. I'm still feeling a little better. I see T in a couple of hours. I'm not feeling as creepy about Pdoc but the whole encounter brought up some anger towards T that I've been stuffing.

When I was appealing my insurance company's decision denying me unlimited therapy, my T wrote a letter to the appeal psychologist that was supposed to support the fact that I needed to have the unlimited benefits. But he wrote the letter before we had the open discussion about his reservations re: my dependency upon him, etc. etc.

He wrote something in the letter that has always bothered me and came up yesterday, not specifically with Pdoc, but in the context of everything else that came up for me. It's still simmering away there for me under the surface.

My T wrote that my progress has been inconsistent. I asked him about it and he explained that he put that because he didn't want them to think I was cured and didn't need help. But that doesn't really make sense to me. I think it's probably a professional buzzword for someone who is just languishing in therapy and not making therapeutic strides.

I've worked really hard in therapy over the last four years and I would do anything he told me to do to get better so I was a little put out by it and I'm not sure I really "buy" his explanation. Part of me now is thinking that he put it because he was having the issue with my dependency and it would be clear to the reviewing psychologist that this is someone with dependency issues because here I was asking to come twice a week.

Does anyone have any thoughts re: his description of my progress?

Just bumping my own thread up to see if I can get a little advice before I leave for my session. Just wanted to know how others would view T's use of the word "inconsistent" to describe my progress. Trying not to overreact but it's not sitting well with me.

Hi Liese
This may have missed your appt time so please ignore if it has. Yep I have to say I would find the word inconsistent if used about me a bit angry making, puzzling. Did t clarify what they meant either in writing or face to face ? I would personally prefer someone to say something like progress has been variable, they needs more sessions; this would sit better with me or even I would feel more positive if someone say to me some progress has been made and more work needs doing. I think that's because I would find the word inconsistent about progress a bit insulting and narrow. Hope you can get some resolution on why t used that word.

I think that when T used such a word, it is because he wants Pdoc/insurance to know what your treatment has looked like- I don't think that such comments are meant to be perjorative, but rather to give a picture of what things have looked like from a strictly treatment perspective. The perspective from a treatment vs. realtionshiup perspective must loook like two very different thing- which is why many/most T's would never let their clients read their notes...because it would just look too impersonal, perjorative, and be ultimately unhelpful. The reality is that we aren't in therapy because we have it so together, but because we really don't. It hurts to realize that T sees that "not together" part of it, and makes a "judgement" on it...but- there it is. It's necessary or they can't help us to grow.

Big hugs...you are being very brave about this.

BB

JustMaybe,

Oh thanks for your take on that. I did ask T about it and got that explanation and just accepted it to smooth things over. But now that I know he was having issues with my dependency, I can't help but wonder if he was intentionally sabatoging my attempt to get the unlimited sessions. Oh, god, that sounds so awful, doesn't it that I would even think that?

I agree with you about a different wording perhaps. I work so hard in therapy. I'm not there to languish. Teach me how to make progress. Help me. Talk to me about it. Talk to me about my dependency. But don't sabatoge me.

Thanks for responding.

Thanks BB, for the different take on it. I was finally getting to the point of fully trusting T and then the Pdoc appointment brought up all this stuff for me.

I still don't like the use of the word. It certainly doesn't connote how much I want help and/or how hard I work, even if I am swimming against the tide most of the time.

((((((Liese)))))

Than if it is bothering you, and interfering with your trust for him, it needs to be talked through. I do not think that T would be saying your progress is inconsistent because he thinks you haven't been working hard enough. I think he would say that because he sees that you have issues that are difficult to overcome, and will take longer to work through. Yes, maybe it means dependency issues...but the word "inconsistent" doesn't really sound personal to me...to me, it is just a word that says what your treatment has looked like- it could be that he blames himself for the inconsistency...or takes some of the blame. I'm sure he understands that therapy is not a smooth ride, and that there will be inconsistancy...because nobody is perfect. I really do not think he meant to be insulting. I know it hurts, though. (((((Liese)))) Tell him how much it hurts, and why it hurts.

BB

Thanks BB,

I think if I, as an official apparatchik in an insurance organization, were reading what your T wrote, then yes I might interpret ‘inconsistent progress’ rather negatively, as giving the impression that the client is somehow malingering or having setbacks which indicate some sort of issue with the therapy. And I agree with JMB that it has a faintly insulting meaning to it.

From what you say of his explanation of it though, it sounds like he really was trying to help you, and didn’t want to say anything that might give the impression that you’ve progressed so well that they would decide oh well she doesn’t need therapy anymore (Imagine if he’d said, is making good progress…) It does sound like he’s just used a poor choice of word, trying to get across that you need more therapy without trying to make it sound like you’re a total basket case. I really really do not think he chose that word in order to sabotage your insurance chances.

And remember, he wasn’t saying YOU were being inconsistent, he was saying your PROGRESS was inconsistent (which for anyone in therapy, would be the case, it’s not linear or smooth, as anyone will testify to…)

BB has it right too, you need to talk to him about this and how much it bothers you and rather than have him go all defensive and explain for the umpteenth time what he meant, just tell him how it made you feel - and how you are deeply afraid that he did it purposely to ‘get rid of you’ - that’s a fundamental fear and seems to me to be at the heart of what is bothering you now. You do need to tell him those fears, or you’ll stay stuck in trying to double guess what he ‘really’ means…

Want to wish you all the best with your session. Let us know how it goes?

(((((((( Liese )))))))

LL

yes...please let us know how it goes...I was trying to say this, but I said it rather pporly, I'm so sorry.

quote:

And remember, he wasn’t saying YOU were being inconsistent, he was saying your PROGRESS was inconsistent (which for anyone in therapy, would be the case, it’s not linear or smooth, as anyone will testify to…)

much love,

Beebs

Liese,

I had to think about this for a while because I didn't like the word inconsistent.

This isn't a word that T's would use for us - especially not T's who are good and you have been with for a long time - that is why I thought that he was writing it for the benefit for the people reading it and I automatically thought it was because of insurance reasons.

I don't even think that a T would write it to another T?

Of course therapy is inconsistent - that is life - yeah - i think this is insurance-speak.

SD

Liease

this might be too late, but just in case...
I totally understand how that feels. It would really bother me too if my T said that about me, and I hope you are able to talk with your T about it. I do agree with others that not only is it not *you* that is inconsistent, but just your progress... and while yeah, in a way, that could be misused as a way to block unlimited sessions, it could also be used to help get them, and get what helps your progress be more consistent.

another way to look at it is like - what if you had cancer? and the treatment and recovery wasn't consistent. That is usually a sign to the insurance and providers on the team that more agressive treatment was needed, not less. Or if you had diabetes and your insulin levels were up and down and were not consistent. Usually not a sign to withhold insulin, but tweak it so it is the right amount so that you feel the best you can.

I really struggle to believe my Ts not only have my best in mind, but that their idea of what is best for me will actually be something good for me... and more often than not, it is something good for me... If your T tells your P doc that you are inconsistent, it is out of intention to have your progress be more consistent than to sabatoge you... And, at the same time, no, it doesn't sound awful, not like you are an awful person for thinking and feeling otherwise - I would too. It's really brave and wise of you to be seeking out input on other ways to look at that. A lot of people wouldn't, and would be sabatoged by reading that and just taking it how it felt, and leaving it at that. Your hard work is really clear, even on this... and I think you are handling it well to ask and think it through...

I'm not sure I am making any sense at all.... Please disregard anything that doesn't make sense or is off the mark at all.

I hope it goes well with your appointment today!

~ jane

LL, Somedays, BB, and Janedoe

Thank you so much, all of you, for offering your thoughts. I'm just glad that you all might struggle with the word itself also.

And, so I'm just back from my session and am happy to report that trust, normalcy and balance have been restored to my therapeutic relationship. He has such a way of phrasing things that he comes across as totally believable.

What he actually said is what Jane said, that he was trying to indicate that More treatment was needed, not less. That I'm not going to be fixed in 20 sessions. He also said that the word to him isn't negative. To him, if he came across a report with the word inconsistent in it, he would think that a) either life got in the way, or b) something else was interfering. We haven't had too many discussions about my feelings for him but I get the impression that he thinks my feelings for him were interfering. We will see how THAT discussion goes.

I did also tell him that it bothered me that when he told me he didn't love me, he didn't say and couldn't say, oh, but I'm fond of you, I have affection for you. I told him that that would have helped me cope A LOT. Well, he is just such a stickler for words because he did say that he thinks it's just a matter of osemantics. I did tell him that I might throw trhe love word around more loosely than he does. But, I still don't know how he feels about me. If he is just tolerating me. He told me he's definitely not tolerating me and th at he has a problem with the word "affection" but he will tell me he is fond of me. And that he cares about me as a person. So, I am satisfied with that for now. I told him he gets too intellectual about all this stuff and he wasn't providing me with the safety I needed.

PDOC called and just left him a message. T has no need to speak with him so won't be calling him back. All PDOC said was that he was taking me on and that he'd be seeing me every few months. And he also mentioned that I signed my maiden name on some forms and my married name on others and he wondered if that had to do with my PTSD. I usually sign my married name to most things but my checks have my maiden name on them (because my driver's license is still in my maiden name) and so I know I signed my maiden name to my check to PDOC. I'm pretty sure that I signed my married name to everything else. And, so I'm curious to know if I did or not. But I thought that was a pretty funny thing to pick up on. And here I was so worried about him asking T all kinds of personal questions and/or judging me. Oh, my mind goes to strange places sometimes.

I just want to thank everyone who helped me through these last 24 hours. I've been mostly stable lately but do have these little incidents now and then. Hopefully they will get to be less and less as time goes on.


Big to everyone. Back to business as usual. Until next time that
is
Love,

Liese

Edited to add that I told him that I think i have an EP fixated in the separation cry and he said yes, definitely. And I told him that we've all been learning about crying on the forum thanks to our buddy LL and that I think my EP is stuck in despair. And he said, yes, definitely. I get excited when there is some kind of rational reason for things. Now that we know what it is, we can fix it!!!

So happy things worked out so well Liese! Funny thing about crying... I haven't been keeping up on the forum as much, but I have been dealing with the tears a lot, and trying to figure them out myself.

I'm glad T was able to reassure you that he's pulling for you and not pushing you out. It sounds, too, that just the message from pdoc is enough communication for your team right now. Baby steps!

((((Liese)))

quote:

am happy to report that trust, normalcy and balance have been restored to my therapeutic relationship

Now that sounds pretty good to me! Sounds like you got quite a few things sorted this session, and I am so pleased things have gone back to positive. Lol after all that worrying about what Pdoc and T would talk about and he only queried the use of your maiden name. I hope you can feel now that you have a proper team - a Pdoc who is there but not pushy or intrusive and whom T can call if he needs to, but isn't particularly interested in swapping notes about you with. Sounds like a nice very much in the background safety net to me.

Am really pleased for you (((((( Liese )))))))

LL

((( Liese )))- So rapt for you. Glad it worked out super duper well. Your T is a keeper.