Hey MTF,

quote:

I know it on an intellectual, rational, logical level. It's the rest of my mind I need to convince!

Oh, I know that "split" very well. In my opinion, it's one of the most frustrating things to experience, because your logical side of your brain knows that it's right, but it's the minority, and it can't convince the majority. I know that I would experience the same thing as you, though - I would feel partly hurt, but I would also understand what she was saying. It's definitely a hard thing to deal with.

I completely grasp your frustration when it comes to your T. It sounds like you're getting and feeling mixed signals from her, which is so tough. But she does seem very attentive an caring - I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but is it possible that she is trying to get you to make use of your attachment (and inherent trust in that attachment) and be encouraging you to open up to her about your feelings in person? I know that it's so much easier to put things on paper rather than speak them. Half of the time, I wish I could write letters in all of my communication, because I could get things done so much more efficiently! But maybe she wants to really rebuild your trust in her by having you verbally express your feelings for her in complete honesty. And more than just saying that you are attached, but explaining exactly what you said here. Again, I really don't know, but if that is what she's trying to do, it would help match up her actions. It's like she's fostering your attachment to her when she calls you during her lunch hour, and I find it hard that she could be completely oblivious to that. So, logically (I think logic will be the death of me), she may be trying to draw upon that attachment to enhance your therapy.

When is your next session with her?

K,

My next session is Friday. She had a cancellation (or so the secretary said, but the office hours are from ten til two, though some Ts work later hours.), so she got me in on my 'off week' again. Then I'll see her next Wednesday as well. I don't know if I like seeing her so frequently after seeing her every other week for so long. It makes me have serious separation anxiety issues, and I hate that. And now that you have brought up what you have about her maybe trying to foster my attachment to her I wonder what she is really trying to do. Things have been weird since we had that 'UBER-limbic resonance' connective experience last month, and having her tell me that she felt a spiritual connection with me besides the emotional and physical connection (from holding my hands), I wonder what's going on with her. She did a 180 degree about face on me, and instead of her not wanting me to be 'too dependent' on her, it's like she's doing the opposite and now she's okay with it. It's confusing the heck out of me!

If I tell her my feelings I was already planning to tell her in person, although it might be reading a letter to her again, as I tend to freeze up almost completely when I have to talk about things that are emotional. I can intellectualize really well, but bring the emotions online and my thinking brains shuts down and I'm 'gone'. So I would tell her but read most of it, then give her the letter after I read it.

quote:

But maybe she wants to really rebuild your trust in her by having you verbally express your feelings for her in complete honesty.

I don't get how that might help rebuild my trust in her? I'm scared as heck to tell her my feelings in complete honesty because I fear her reactions. Is that what you mean? That if she reacts well, I will trust her more? Do you think she's doing all this to try to strengthen the attachment? And what purpose do you think that might serve, because I'm pretty oblivious to that right now. For me it just becomes more painful the deeper the attachment gets. I really don't like this stuff.

MTF

Hi there More Than Fine

It seems to me that the way you feel about your T is really important and no matter what if you don’t talk about how you feel or sort it in some way with your T it’s going to eat away at you - something permanently unresolved in the back of your mind that will (I think) interfere with the therapy proper.

Maybe you could ask her pointblank what her take on attachment is? How she views it and what her approach to it is? (rather than forcing yourself to expose how you feel - getting some idea of what her likely response is going to be might just help you decide how to proceed.)

The way you are describing how you feel about her it’s not some small irrelevancy - and I’m surprised she doesn’t seem to want to pick up on it and work with these feelings in sessions. I also get what you say about these feelings being REAL for her as a person, and not just ‘transference’. All the more reason to be able to sort it with her one way or another.

I’m so sorry you are spinning out about it - but what you’ve been explaining about how your sessions have been going recently it really sounds as if she is there for you. Maybe taking a bit of risk is called for here?

Monte,

I'm sitting here crying because I think you've pretty much said exactly what I needed to hear, and for some reason it really struck me. I guess I am upset with my T because part of me would love a T that is open to hearing about my feelings and wants to hear them and accepts them and validates them and instead I feel like mine doesn't (although I'm making assumptions with that, and that's not fair to her). Instead I feel like trying to put my feelings out there to her would just be one big shame fest and I would end up feeling worse. Probably not true, as I'm sure she would likely end up explaining to me that dealing openly with transference issues aren't her strength, but that she IS good at going straight to the heart of the matter and working on what's causing the problems in my life rather than wasting time on something she can't fix. I know I can trust her because she is good at what she does.

It's like you said, WHY CAN'T MT T JUST TELL ME THE TRUTH? Why can't she just say it in plain and simple terms? "MTF, I know you're hurting because you have all these powerful, intense feelings and that it is really difficult for you, but please trust that I understand what you're going through and that I'm doing what I can to help you. Trust that I know how to help you get through this, even if it's not the way you want to get through it." And yeah, something along the lines of putting down the transference frenzy and following their lead and everything will be OK in the end. It doesn't feel like it will ever be OK. It just feels really scary most of the time. The more attached I get and the more I feel she encourages it with more frequent sessions, phone calls, etc., the more frightened I become, because then my needs and feelings grow even more and I don't want that. I don't want a stronger feeling of dependency on her!

quote:

WHY CAN'T MY T SAY THAT?! Or something like that. Maybe he has already said it, yours too, but we are not hearing their wise words for what they are...we have our own ideas on how they should help us heal.

We hear our pain over our relationship with them screaming for attention and it seems so bloody obvious that this is the issue at hand, but maybe what they see and want to focus on is what is BEHIND that noise, past relationships and grief etc. Maybe their aim is to go straight to the source rather than waste time (in their view) on present stuff.

I need to give up my own ideas on how my T should help me heal, I guess. I need to trust that she's been doing this for a long time and that she knows her stuff. Heck, I just need to trust her, period! I know I have trust issues, but this is bordering on ridiculous. I guess that's why I just want her to say it--to tell me that she understands what I'm going through, understands my feelings, and that she IS helping me and that I will get there if I wil just trust her and follow her lead. As much as I would rather focus on the relationship with my T, I need to take her hand and allow her to lead me in the direction she feels I need to go, even though I may not want to go in that direction right now (and believe me, I don't!).

So, to answer your question Monte, I think you've got it right on! Thanks so much for hitting me with it right between the eyes because I really needed to hear it just the way you put it. Seems there's a good thing that's come of having a 'twin' on the boards! Well, I'll call you my twin, but you don't have to own me as such--I'm just speaking for myself here, as I'd have you as a twin any day!! Thanks for the help. It means more than you could know!! (((HUGS))) of thanks to you!!

MTF

Lamplighter

Thanks for the input. I think I may bring it up with her. It is important to me that she knows how I feel, because it is a big deal to me, but like Monte said in her post above, it's not really her strength to deal with my feelings for her so much as it is to deal with the issues that are causing me to need her so much, meaning the lack of having my needs met in primary relationships in my present life, and wanting her to meet them for me instead of working at those other relationships. She knows what she's doing, and I think she knows for the most part that my feelings for her are pretty intense, and maybe like Kashley said, she is waiting for me to express them through the course of therapy, and maybe she doesn't think it's that big a deal. I don't know. I need to think and introspect a bit more on these things, and try to get in touch a bit more with my inner feelings about this and what I'm willing to risk and if it's really worth it or even necessary. I think maybe I need to just trust my T and see where she can take me, and perhaps as things unfold and I stop bringing stuff to sessions that I have prepared (like you mentioned yourself in your post about therapy after a holiday ) my feelings will come up and I'll be able to share them with her unrehearsed and in the moment and have a really great experience with her. Who knows?

Thanks for sharing your ideas with me. It gives me more to think about!

MTF

MTF,
I really think the things you are feeling a pull to talk to your T about are things you should share with her. I completely understand that it is MUCH easier said than done. I just think trusting yourself enough to be open to whatever is coming up for you is a good way to move forward. Maybe trusting that whatever is coming up is for a reason and it's because it's time to look at it. (only you know for sure, but that is the feeling I get) I definitely think talking to her about all of it is the best way to go. She has proven time and again that she cares, wants to help you, accepts you. If she actually said she likes letters, I might do that again. My only concern may be that it is easier for her to not answer or respond to all the things you might want her to that way. So, maybe reading it to her? (I know - mortifying. I might rather stab myself in my eye)

Even if she is trying to use a different approach than dealing directly with your relationship with her, as Monte said, at least you will feel heard and have a chance to express what you need to about it. I suspect that and having your feelings accepted is what you are really needing?

So glad you have been able to stay out of the 'spinning'! Positive changes!

quote:

Originally posted by monte:
Oh MTF, I'm so glad my comments were helpful. It helped me too, because I had never thought it through so clearly. I think that's the beauty of these boards...you look at someone else's situation so much more objectively and if they're in a similar place to you, well obviously there are benefits to be had.

I'm glad that YOU can see someone else's situation more objectiveley. I guess I can sometimes, but my head is still in such a fog that it's hard to even see my own stuff as it is sometimes. Bleh.

I have come to a few more conclusions overnight. My T is not being the T I want him to be...or more to the point, I am not letting him be the T he IS...I have not been responding to his best efforts because they are not in line with my agenda. I need to tell him this. Dang!!! How do you figure this stuff out? This is EXACTLY my issue too. I wonder sometimes if getting online and searching for stuff about transference and good therapy (and finding this website and forum) after my T reacted to me back in December after I told her I was attached to her was a bad idea, because since then I have been judging her by 'standards' I have found on the web, and that isn't really fair to her. She knows her stuff. She has her own way of doing things, and people wouldn't be lined up on her waiting list for months if she wasn't a really good therapist. I have had my own agenda, too. And hers hasn't matched up with it, so I have been resisting it and fighting it and coming up with every red flag I can 'find' to give me some excuse to find fault with her, or question her abilities, or her intentions, or whether or not she is trustworthy, etc.. Ugh, I've gone and stepped into a big pile of dog poop, haven't I?! Hate that...

Another thing about that desperate need to communicate the transference thing and be understood...for me that is, don't know about you. I wonder if I have a hidden agenda. I wonder if I secretly hope that by really shining the spotlight on the transference issues, by drawing him into deep discussion and understanding, I may somehow trigger in him an extra measure of care and compassion, with the result being him giving me more of what I crave. Like maybe I'm thinking, "If you really understood my needs and where they're coming from, you may be more willing to meet them in some ways..."

Here's my way of looking at my need to communicate the transference/attachment stuff to my T, after reading (and okay, slightly copying ) your interpretation of what yours might be: I think I will somehow trigger my T into having a greater desire to care more deeply for me, show more concern, compassion, and give me more of what I crave from her, like maybe, "If you really understand my feelings and needs, and how much you mean to me, you may be more willing to meet them and be something for me outside of therapy NOW, not in a year or two (or three) when therapy is over and I can come by the hospital and go have lunch. (And yeah, if you didn't know this, my T told me after I read her that letter about her reactions to me and how I had felt because of her reactions, and told her that when I had to end therapy that I felt like I would be walking away from her funeral that day, she told me it didn't have to be that way, and that I could decide at that point if I wanted to be completely discharged for good and 'be friends' and do lunch once in a while, or still have the option of coming back for therapy if I needed to at some future point, but that I couldn't have both. She said she has 2 or 3 ex-patients that she sees as friends now that they aren't patients any more. She told me she likes me and would like to stay in touch, but it's up to me. I oftentimes wish she had never told me any of that. It has made therapy all that much harder for me and created SO MUCH CONFUSION. How can you hold that out there like that for someone who is struggling, tell them that you care for them, but that they have to wait until therapy is terminated to have what you're holding out there? So unfair, and I don't know whether to be angry or grateful. I think she was doing it partly to calm me, because I was VERY upset that day (that was the day she teared up on me, and we had our 'UBER-limbic resonance' connection moment) but I wonder if part of it was her own guilt rearing it's head because she realized she had screwed up big time and her own emotions were online and in the way. I don't know. Can you see my problem here? It's not just MY feelings I have to deal with, it's some of her own thrown in there, too. That doesn't help with the shame factor either, for some reason. I think I have A LOT to talk to my T about. Thanks for giving me a starting point, and a lot of good food for thought! This has been awesome, Monte!! You really outdid yourself this time! I'm way proud of you! See why I'm more than willing to adopt you as my board twin?!!

Maybe it's that mini-me brat, schemimg in the background as usual, forever trying to get her way.
I'm thinking I must have a bratty little mini-me inside, too. She needs a long time-out.

My aim I think must be to clearly communicate all this to him, receive confirmation from him that he has understood...and then trust him and let him do things his way from there. If I don't like his way, it is up to me then to make a choice. I think you've got your plan figured out and it sounds like a terrific one! I too need to do the same. Trusting my T and letting her do things her own way is going to be tough, but like you said, if I don't like her way, I will then have to decide whether to suck it up and soldier on with her anyway, or find another T. I'm hoping I (and you, too) can just trust my T and let her do things her way and allow her knowledge, skill, expertise and care for me take over and lead her and me to wherever it is I need to go.

Monte

PS O-o-k-a-a-ay, we can be board twins. That's cute!

Gee, thanks!! I'm feeling super special today! Yay!!! (and now my Ambien has fully kicked in I am going to bed now so I don't get any loopier!) Thanks for your wonderful insights, Monte. You've helped me out tremendously here, and I so very much appreciate it!! THANKS!!!

MTF

Hey MTF,

I'm about to conk out right here in front of the computer, but I just wanted to say a couple things while they're fresh in my not-so-fresh mind.

quote:

I wonder if part of it was her own guilt rearing it's head because she realized she had screwed up big time and her own emotions were online and in the way.

I think you are selling yourself short here. I'm sure she has plenty and plenty of ex-patients, considering she has a waiting list. So to take into perspective that she only sees 2 or 3 ex-patients as friends outside of therapy, it doesn't strike me that she would make that offer to just anyone, even if she was feeling guilty. I would take what she said at face value. She DOES want to keep in touch with you, and not out of guilt! Of course, no one can be entirely sure, but it sure seems that way to me. It does seem entirely plausible that she said it to calm you, but that's not to say that she wouldn't have told you at some other point, maybe closer to when you terminate with her, whenever that will be. Who knows. Maybe she withheld it for a while because she didn't want to leave you hanging. Maybe it means that she has recognized your attachment to her and didn't want to dangle this in front of you, just out of your reach. Nonetheless, I still think that her offer is entirely genuine.

quote:

Originally posted by seablue:
My only concern may be that it is easier for her to not answer or respond to all the things you might want her to that way.

I think this is a good thought and possibility. Ha, but I do agree...if I had to read anything in a letter out loud to my T, I'd probably rather stab my eye out. Neither would be very pleasant, but at least there is the predictability of knowing that you won't be able to see out of one eye if you stab it out, rather than not knowing for sure what would happen until you spit the words out!

Seablue,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know these things are coming up for a reason, that's for sure. I agree that I need to confront the feelings, but I'm starting to think that it's probably more with myself than with my T. I think with Monte's help yesterday, then late last night, I was able to come to realize that I haven't been willing to accept that my T pretty much understands my feelings (or at least the fact that I have them and that they are pretty overwhelming for me), but that she has a different approach to helping me deal with them. I don't mind that, but I haven't been willing to just allow her to BE who she IS and just accept her way of BEING. I want to mold her into what I want her to be. I could tell her my feelings again and again and again, and she would accept them, and I'm sure not be embarrassed about them (that's ALL ME, I realize), but she wouldn't change her way of dealing with them, because that's not her 'way'. She would simply tell me that it's all got to do with my primary relationships (with my husband and parents and siblings) and that there is where I need to focus my efforts in order to heal and find what I am searching for and wanting her to give me. She knows, she just also knows she can't do anything about it but point me in the 'right' direction. It's painful, but I just have to accept that I need to trust her and allow her to be the best therapist SHE CAN BE for me, and stop trying to get her to be something more, something different, something she CAN'T BE. Hello MTF!! I've been missing the boat all along. I need to tell her a lot of things, apparentely. And yeah, I am mortified and WOULD rather stab myself in the eye, but I know from past experience with her that it will all be okay in the end. That's why I love my T. She does accept me, warts and all!

Thanks for your encouragement, Seablue!! It means a lot

MTF

Kashley,

quote:

So to take into perspective that she only sees 2 or 3 ex-patients as friends outside of therapy, it doesn't strike me that she would make that offer to just anyone, even if she was feeling guilty. I would take what she said at face value. She DOES want to keep in touch with you, and not out of guilt! Of course, no one can be entirely sure, but it sure seems that way to me.

Thanks for putting it this way. Makes me feel better, although I still think it's weird she would tell a patient this. I could see it near the end of therapy when termination is getting near, but I am far from that day. So I guess it's made it hard for me because part of me wants that NOW, not years in the future, and also it's messed with my head in that I wouldn't tell stuff that I would tell a therapist to a friend (or someone I know would eventually be a friend someday in the future), ya know what I mean? Just seems kind of hard for me to wrap my head around, not to mention my heart. Maybe I need to discuss that one with her, but that is almost worse that talking about my feelings for her.

Anyway, thank you for your perspective on this. It's much appreciated!!

MTF

Hey MTF -

I hope you've been doing ok today. Let us know how your session goes tomorrow!

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I completely hear you when you say you're used to your T being your T. I have no clue how I would approach that, so I have nothing to give you there, but I do understand!

Hi K,

I've been okay today, thanks for asking. It seems I opened a can of worms, and I hate it when I do that because everyone disappears. I know what I brought up is a sensitive subject around here, and it's even hard for me, so I appreciate that you replied and gave me your input. I feel pretty alone with this situation with my T offering 'friendship' after termination, as I know that most Ts don't, as it really is not considered 'ethical' to have a relationship with a patient for at least 2 years after termination. And I can see why, because it messes with your heart and your head in some negative ways. Ugh. I wish I knew how to deal with this one. It's a doozie!! Thanks for your understanding!!

MTF

Monte,

I remember you mentioning this before, and how much pain it has caused you--that he has signed a contract now that prohibits him being able to do this, etc. I just have this feeling that my T will 'forget' what she has held out there, or that she will withdraw her offer, or something else will happen. You're right, it really messes with the therapy, and I don't like it at all! It makes me fear being myself with her even more than I already did, which is stupid, because I don't have to be 'friends' with her after therapy--it's up to me. I just can't seem to get past the issue of looking at her as I do other people. Like I worry about what she's going to think of me when I tell her this or that, or do I look good enough when I go to my sessions with her, or I just try to put on my best 'face' for her. I don't want to look like the rest of her patients. I want to be the 'best' patient, the healthiest one who is making the most progress, who she can be proud of. It's pathetic. I know I'm not fooling her. Or am I? Ugh. I am wearing a mask for my therapist, and that is holding me back big time. But how do I remove it and get to where I can open up and be ME without fear of judgment by just another one of 'them'. She's not one of 'them', she's my therapist, and I just don't see her that way. It's such a terrible bind I'm in now. I was fine until I became attached to her. Now everything's changed, and I don't even know if she is aware of it or not. I want to tell her all of this but don't even know where to start. I feel like I need to print off all of these posts and highlight all the stuff I need to tell her and then just start reading it to her in sessions until it's all out there. Sigh... What to do, what to do?

Thanks for your response. I know I'm not alone here, it just feels like it sometimes, and I don't like to bring up things that are painful for people. I know the pain and it really hurts.

MTF

More Than Fine I’m afraid I can’t really relate to what you’re going through in terms of your T having offered you friendship - it’s not something I would personally want from my T (but then I’m not attached to him, maybe I would understand better if I were). But I do understand the pain you are in and the fact that her offer is affecting how you are in therapy so that you’re not really able to do what you need to do to get the full benefits of therapy.

When I first read about her offer of friendship to you (in one of your previous threads about your feelings for your T) I have to say a red alert went off in my head - it seemed such a dangerous thing for her to have done. (By the same token, it certainly must have given you experiential proof that she likes and cares about you - so there’s a definite benefit there though.)

I suppose it might be useful for you to ask yourself which you would prefer - to have her as a therapist or as a friend (because it seems to me that the two are mutually exclusive)? From what you’ve described of your feelings about her, I get the impression that you genuinely like her as a person, someone you really would want as a friend, but only you can know how much of that is coloured by how good she is as a therapist. Hm I can see the massive dilemma you are in - I guess I have to say that you really need to talk to her about this and yeah that’s a BIG can of worms. But honestly if you are having to monitor what you say and how you appear and are being restricted in how open you feel you can be with her because of how it might affect her, that’s only damaging to your therapy. You’re at an impasse that really needs to be resolved with her. I hope you do manage to talk at least a little bit about this with her - I’m sure she will be far less judgemental and rejecting than you fear.

Hugs to you in the meantime - you’ve been going through so much with this issue lately it’s time you had something positive to balance the pain and confusion.

I just read in another thread that you had a session yesterday - how did it go?

MTF,
Wondering how you are doing, too.

I don't know how I missed the part about the friendship after ending therapy. Too wrapped up in myself maybe? Anyway, sorry.

Definitely a tough one. Isn't it every client's biggest dream? I think I would be in heaven when I think about long talks over dinner, hearing about her life, goals, hopes, dreams, fears. But, then I think about the fact that she could no longer be my therapist, and then it gets more complicated.

On one hand, it sounds appealing because in my mind it would make ending easier, like I wouldn't really have to let go. But, there is no escaping that once they become a friend the therapeutic relationship is lost, so either way, it is a loss.

For me, it comes down to the fact that I can't stand the thought of never being able to see her again in the future for therapy.

Although, my T has not offered this either. If she ever did, of course I would want to jump right in. The only thing she has said is that we could have contact periodically (annually), most likely by letter, as an update on how things are going after termination. She said it could go on for years. ***sigh*** I can't even go 2 weeks. ONCE A YEAR????

Anyway, I'll stop now. Really hoping your session went well and you are doing OK. Wondering if you brought this subject up. Knowing you and your brave self, you probably did. Please let us know how it went!!

Hi ladies! Thank you for your posts Lamplighter, Monte, and Seablue! And thanks for asking about me in my absence. I've been crazy busy since Friday. My session was later than I usually have it, since my T got me in on a cancellation that was late in the day. I got home and had to get dinner ready for the family, then had to go to a girls' night out with my sisters-in-law and MIL (and actually had fun--therapy MUST be working! ). Saturday we had family visiting from out of town, Sunday was a day of much needed rest, and today I've been running around like a mad woman trying to catch up!! I'm finally sitting down to dinner and the computer. Yay!!

So I started a medication about 11 days ago called Abilify, and can I say I am SO thankful for modern medicine? I'm on two others at the same time (Topamax and Pristiq), and while they were keeping my head above water, the Abilify is helping me float and feel a buoyancy I haven't felt for YEARS!! I am so grateful. It feels like nothing short of a miracle in my life right now. So if I 'sound' happier than usual, I am!

My session with my T Friday went great. I felt very different with her that day than I have felt before. It's hard to describe, but someone has described it to me in a previous post as being lighter and freer, and that is what I think I feel. I believe it has to do with spilling the beans about the internet searching and what I know about my T, and also telling her why I feel I searched for that stuff and what I hoped to find. Not just getting that stuff out, but her reaction too, I think. I was expecting some awful reaction, like her running out of her office down the hall with her hands in the air screaming or something crazy like that. Or telling me to just get the he** out of her office and never come back because I had crossed a line and she couldn't deal with 'freaks' like me. Well, I got the complete opposite from her than I expected, so I think that had a huge impact on me. I wonder if part of my searching was a test to see what kind of reaction I would get from her (rejection, abandonment, disgust, transfer to another therapist, etc.) and if she could actually pass the test. Hmmm.

Anyway, in that letter I also told her that through all of that internet seaching I hadn't found what I had wanted to find, and that it didn't help me to really, truly 'know' her. I told her in the letter that I wanted to know everything about her, and that I knew I couldn't know that stuff--that it wasn't my business and that it wasn't part of therapy (even if she did later tell me I could ask her anything I wanted to know). Well, she has started to reveal some stuff about herself. She wasn't a total 'blank slate' before, and would disclose stuff when it was relevant to what we were talking about, but this last time she went a little further on her embellishments and told me a little more than she would have before. It was weird at first, but now that I've had some time to process it, I think she was giving me what I told her I want. She can't just sit there and tell me all about herself in a session, but she'll do it a little at a time for me as we go. It feels really nice to know that she 'heard' me in that letter. Even though she didn't talk to me about the letter's contents, she did internalize it and take stuff from it that I guess she's going to use to help me and my attachment to her. I already feel a greater connection to her just from that gesture on her part.

Monte, I did get the courage to tell her about our discussion about our Ts and their approach to transference issues. My T told me that she is more than willing to discuss with me my feelings for her if I want to, and I told her I would rather not (because honestly I know where it would end up going, because she's told me before what she feels about transference feelings being a secondary thing where the primary issue was the relationship that is suffering in the present). She basically said the same thing that Deborah Lott tells us Dr. V says in her book "In Session" when he says that if you stand on the corner of 42nd street and something or other (can't remember the reference points), everyone in the world will pass by you. She said you can spend years on transference feelings, and that it's sort of a waste of time when she feels that getting to the root of the problem is the healthiest and quickest way to healing and happiness. I have to admit that I agree with her, and honestly, although I want her to know how I feel about her, I don't presently want to disclose it all to her, because I know I'll get the 'transference' talk from her, and I don't want to hear that my feelings are due to feelings about my husband, parents, etc. I will tell her when she knows that I have resolved my issues in my marriage and that things are going really well with my husband, and when my relationships with my parents are better. Then maybe she'll know that my feelings for her are genuine, not because I'm not getting my needs met and want her to fill them, or whatever other 'excuse' therapists give us for our feelings about them. I know she will appreciate them more when she knows they are about her, not about others in my life. KWIM??? So for now, I'll trust her to take me where she wants to lead me and drop the 'transference frenzy' (to the extent I can, of course ) and follow her down the path she knows so well and has the expertise to walk down with me. I feel she DOES know what she's doing, and I trust that she will give me her best, and it feels good.

My husband is supposed to be coming with me to my session Wednesday because we really need to get working on our relationship woes. My T really wants me to get the help I can from him, and to get him to meet my needs so I feel more support and love in my life. I know he needs the same from me, so it should be really helpful for both of us. I know my DH is not looking forward to it, though. He's looking for any excuse to get out of going and already tried to back out of it tonight. I'm going to have to watch myself the next day and a half so he doesn't back out, because this is important. He was going to come with me back before my relationship with my T fell apart in February. Things got derailled, but I'm hoping they'll get back on track. I feel like we're headed in the right direction, and I feel good over all. My head isn't spinning, although I do think about my T a lot still, but I suppose that is normal given transference and attachment issues, so I'm going to cut myself some slack on that one. At least the thoughts aren't negative and obsessive anymore like they were. I feel a lot better about things and it really feels SO GOOD! Now if the rest of my life were to feel this good! I've got so much to do to 'catch up' on that has been neglected for the past five years of my clinical depression that it's overwhelming. Guess that's where Flylady is going to come in handy. Guess I'd better get busy and check out her website again. It's been a long time!!

Thanks again for your support, everyone! You guys are so awesome!!

MTF

Glad you are doing well. I, too thought you were bolting.

WOW MTF - what a wonderful post to read - you sound great!! How cool that it is all coming together in this way for you, with the therapy working, the meds working, your husband getting on board, your energy returning. You sound like a different kind of you, but still you. Amazing. It sounds like the attunement with your T is really taking effect, as well as the pills - it's funny that you seem to have had a similar experience to me in that the effect of 'repairing' the relationship has taken a while to really sink in and make its full presence known.

I love the calmness in the way you're writing about the attachment - that it will be okay to keep that feeling, hold it and feel it while you work on other things, and share it with her at the right time. Awesome.

Keep on flying!! And if you have a slow-down or a set-back, remember that your brain has this experience on record now - these neural pathways are open to you and you can visit them more and more often. And it's on record here on the message board too, if your brain needs a reminder!

Jones

Hey, MTF...I've been reading your thread again, and I see you have come up for air...I'm so glad to hear it. I havn't been able to add anything here, I've been kind of swirling in my own little pit of confusion as usual, but it makes me feel hopeful that your T, who seems to have the same approach to the transference issues as mine, (Monte's too) is making some headway in understanding where you are at as are you! I think so much of this has to do with us being able to understand where they are at with it all, too, maybe. I relate to the feeling of wanting to catch up on five years of stuff. I am one who goes constantly in and out of depression, so I have a day every so often where I "wake up" look around and think: where has my life gone...now I want to do this and this and this! Unfortunately, the feeling usually dissipates after a day or so, and it doesn't seem to matter whether my sessions are going well or not, they just don't consistently stay that way- and I think it must be my own doing. So, the long and short, is that I am considering trying meds. Maybe that will get me on track. But it's so tough to make that decision, so it is good to hear that you are having some good results and are more "yourself" as a result.

Keep us posted on how it goes, MTF.

hugs,

BB

That is all so fantastic to hear, MTF. I'm glad that your new meds are working. For a while, the medication I was on was "keeping my head above the water," so I just thought that the part of me that was still depressed was just completely defective! But getting on the right meds really makes a huge difference, so I'm so glad that you're feeling so much better. It is such a relieving feeling.

I'm also so happy to hear that your T has responded so well to all that you disclosed to her. Be sure to keep us updated!

Hi MTF!

Just wanted to add my voice to the others to say I'm so glad to hear that everything is going so well! Very cool that the new med is such a good fit for you. I can "hear" the difference in your "voice" - like Jones said, you still sound like "you", but better, like it is easier to stay "centered" maybe, and not get pulled as easily into "spinning"? What a wonderful thought...maybe I'll have to ask about this Abilify. And it sounds like you and your T have reached a point where you've both decided where you're going and now you've settled into going there. I get the image of an airplane that had a bit of a rocky takeoff, and some turbulence during the climb, but now is at "cruising altitude" and you are on your way! I'm so glad you shared all of this, it is very encouraging and inspiring to hear. And good luck with your DH at your appointment. My DH doesn't care for going either, I think in general they have a different way of approaching things so it is harder for them (although I know it doesn't apply to everyone). I hope it turns out well, please keep us posted!

SG

Hey MTF, how you doing? Hope you are still riding that lovely new energy. Let us know how things are.

J

Hi J! Thanks for asking about me! You made my day! I've been MIA from this place for almost two weeks and have been feeling pretty disconnected. I got a challenge from both my T and my DH to stay off the computer as much as possible because I've been spending way too much time in virtual reality instead of the real 'reality' (whatever THAT is ), so I decided to take them up on it. It's been good in a lot of ways, but hard too. I've missed all of you, and I have also missed doing my update here so I have a 'journal entry' of my sessions with my T for my own personal record, as this place is the only place I have any of this stuff put down in writing. So I guess I am going to take a bit of time to jot down what I still remember from my last two sessions.

The first was with my husband. That wasn't what I had expected at all. It was hard and weird. My T had asked me during the session before if I felt okay about our relationship (mine and hers) and if I was comfortable enough to bring my husband into it. I thought that was a strange question because I guess I didn't really know quite what she was getting at or what she really meant. I know some people say they get jealous of their T's other clients sometimes, and I haven't experienced that before, at least I've not let myself go there and really think about her other clients enough to get jealous of them, but boy did I struggle with having to share my precious T with my DH! I didn't like her focusing her attention on him instead of just on me AT ALL!! She seemed really interested in talking to my DH, learning what he needed from me, what I could do for him, it seemed like it was all about him. There were times where I wanted to wave my hand in front of my T's face and say, "Ahem. I'm here too, ya know!". I felt like a little child who suddenly had a new baby sibling that her mother was 'ooohing and ahhhing' over and I could feel those pangs of jealousy almost the entire time we were in our session. It was pretty distracting and I left feeling pretty disconnected from my T. In fact there were times where I felt like she didn't even know me any more now than she did back when I first started seeing her, like I was just any other person on the planet that she was meeting for the first time and she treated me almost the same way she treated my husband as far as how familiar she seemed with me. It was so strange. I felt like we didn't have our usual connection with each other and I didn't like it at all. It made me sad.

I went home feeling a little rejected, and very dejected. Not only do I not feel really connected to my DH, I didn't even get to feel connected to my T during that hour with her, and when we were leaving and she put her arm around me (which is part of her routine) I thought she was going to give me a hug, so I went to put my other arm around her and she didn't reciprocate really, so then I felt stupid. I hate it when you think someone is going to do something they've done before and then they don't, especially when it's something you were really wanting and needing. I really needed to feel some connection with her that day, so not getting that felt even worse. It was a hard session. My husband picked on me a little too because we were there to tell each other how we can meet each other's emotional needs, so some of what he said hurt. My T even seemed a bit disturbed at one of the things he said, which didn't help the situation I was already in. Ugh. I don't look forward to our return visit at the start of next month. My DH hasn't been doing all the things on his list for me so I don't know how that's going to go. Come to think of it, I don't know that I've been doing all the things on my list for him, but I know I'm doing more than he is. I knew going into this it would be that way. Kind of makes me sad (and mad), but at least it wasn't a surprise.

My individual session was this last Monday. It was an unscheduled session on my off-week. My T called me at 7:59 a.m. Monday morning. She doesn't even officially start her work day until 8 a.m. so it was funny that she called me before then. She apologized for "calling so early" but said she had a cancellation for 4 p.m. that day and wondered if I could make it. Of course I could!!! I felt pretty darn special that I was the first person she would call that day. Her cancellation called her Sunday and left a message with the answering service, so she called me first thing Monday before she bothered to call any of her Tuesday appointments to remind them of their sessions (which she does first thing every morning). Things like that make me feel really cared about, and it helps at times like these when I'm feeling disconnected to remember them because I know that my T cares through the things she does that show her care for me.

Anyway, I don't remember a whole lot of what happened now. I wish I had written it all down right after I got done. I hate it when I don't do that. There wasn't anything really significant that happened, I just feel different with her now. I don't know how to describe it. I told her about my medications. She didn't remember I had changed meds. Kind of disappointed me, but I have to remember she works in a hospital clinic and has a case load of probably 100 people or so. She was disappointed in herself though when she realized she had put it down at the back of the chart, but not on the updated stuff. So she corrected that. I told her I wasn't spinning anymore and she was thrilled. She said that deseved some chocolate in celebration. She got up and went to her little secret chocolate stash pot and dug out some Dove chocolate for each of us. She was sure to pick out 3 different kinds for each of us, and asked if I liked each kind she pulled out. She's a cute lady and I just love her. I'm going to be super sad when I am done with therapy. Weird that I'm already thinking about that day, since I have no idea when that day will be. But we celebrated my lack of spinning, so that was nice of her to enjoy my 'success' with me, even if it's medication-induced success. She high-fived me over a success with some housekeeping I've been doing for my DH as part of my list of things to work on for him. That was cool. Just little things like that.

We talked about stuff I wish I could remember. I know I spent some time talking to her about fulfilling my dream of going to Paris in a couple of years. She supports me on that, as it's been a dream of mine for 21 years and I gave up on it when I got married. My DH doesn't have that dream himself, so I just let it go because in my mind there was no way for me to make it happen if I didn't have his support. But a friend of mine across the street has talked me into saving for it and going with her in a year and a half or so, and my T was the one who gave me the idea of how to get the money in the first place by using my skills in photography and doing engagement photos and family/children photos and some other things I have available that I just need to get busy and put together because I've already made the investment in half of it, I just need to 'make' the stuff. She offered to ask a couple she knows if I could go with them on a chaperone basis through a program they do with a local high school group, which I thought was sweet, especially since she and her husband were going to go a few years ago with the same group but couldn't get out of their work responsibilities in order to go. So she's behind me all the way, which was nice. So just lots of stuff like that. I'm feeling good about my relationship with my T for the most part. I just wish things were moving along faster, or maybe not, maybe just that I could spend more time in her office. I never want to leave. Does anyone else feel that way? I hate it when my hour is up sometimes. Of course sometimes I haven't even wanted to be there at all , but lately I just feel safe, good, and like I'm in a comfortable place with her. It's a nice feeling, and I know it's coming along like it's supposed to so that I can get into the EMDR (which I am still sort of afraid of) and do the work I need to do so I can heal and get on with my life. I NEED that. Heh, don't we all?!

Anyway, things are going well and getting better all the time. I just spent the past two days watching two extra kids, and even a month ago that would have practically done me in. And aside from being a bit tired, I'm fine today! So I know I'm doing TONS better! YAY!!! Feeling like myself (or better than myself, actually) is such a blessing, and I'm feeling very grateful these days. Thanks to all of you that have been so supportive and helpful and encouraging to me as I've been on my journey through all of this. It's been wonderful!! You all are so fantastic!!

HUGS!!
MTF

Hi MTF,
I meant to write more but I'm running out of time and I'm going out of town so very quickly. Totally get the don't want to leave part. Why would you? It's safe, you're cared for, understood and receiving the kind of care and acceptance you've searched for your whole life. You'd be nuts if you WANTED to leave! I often tell my T at the end of a session that I don't want to leave. Once when I was shaking his hand goodbye, I actually started to cry and couldn't let go and told him I was really scared about leaving. In some ways, it's a very healthy sign, it means you are experiencing intimacy. I mean how many toddlers are anxious to get away from their mothers?

As far as the couples session, PLEASE know that you sound perfectly normal and are making a lot of sense. I also do marriage counseling with my husband with my T (actually saw him for that first) and couples sessions have a very different feel. They have to because your T has to concentrate on two people whereas when you're alone it's only you. So the loss of her full attention can be experienced as very threatening. The best thing to do is talk to her about it. How you feel when you see someone else moving close to your attachment figure or having their attention not be on you, is vitally important information about who you are and how you do relationships. I also want to reassure you about the hug. I would think that your T didn't feel comfortable hugging your husband and didn't want to give you something in front of him to you that she wouldn't give to him. I have this weird ritual with my T. In individual sessions, we only shake hands at the end. But for couples sessions we shake at the beginning and end of sessions. Why? Because my husband always shakes his hand hello and he's not going to shake his hand and not mine. We've NEVER discussed it but that's how we do it. And just so you don't feel bad about how you feel I have make at least four emergency phone calls to my T about being jealous of my husband in couples sessions. There, don't you feel better?

AG

MTF, great to hear from you and I'm so glad you're still keeping out of that spinning! Sounds like there are ups and downs, but that the general trend is very much up. Wonderful to know. Medication may be doing its part, but you've also worked so hard to improve things for yourself, and you still are. I am sure they will keep getting better. Take care, and I hope you keep getting those chocolate treats!

Hi again, MTF. Good to hear from you again. I too have been wondering how you've been doing.

quote:

I got a challenge from both my T and my DH to stay off the computer as much as possible because I've been spending way too much time in virtual reality instead of the real 'reality' (whatever THAT is ), so I decided to take them up on it.

You're a good woman, MTF! My DH has definitely complained about that to me as well. But I haven't taken anyone up on any challenges yet.

quote:

boy did I struggle with having to share my precious T with my DH! I didn't like her focusing her attention on him instead of just on me AT ALL!!....I felt like a little child who suddenly had a new baby sibling that her mother was 'ooohing and ahhhing' over and I could feel those pangs of jealousy almost the entire time we were in our session.

I would most definitely be having the same reaction. In fact, I already told my T months ago when she suggested my DH might benefit from counseling that I was not going to share her with him. I don't care if she's the best therapist in a six-county area, if DH ever decides to get counseling he will just have to go to someone inferior to her! I do, however, share her with my daughter and am not threatened by that.

I think I am gradually becoming more jealous of my T's other clients. I don't like to see her put her arm around them as she walks them out her door. I don't like her to talk about how concerned she is about so-and-so. I resent that she cannot be available to me 24/7 because her time is divided. I think I don't trust that her heart is big enough for all of us. I realize jealousy isn't an attractive attribute, but at least we are honest enough to admit it.

quote:

she's behind me all the way, which was nice.

That's really important. It's hard for many of us to feel OK about taking care of our own dreams because we think we are being selfish or unworthy. We put ourselves on the back burner and make martyrs of ourselves. But its not loving ourselves to do that. I hope you keep working on your goal to get to Paris. My T is cheering me on right now in my dream to go back to school and increase my financial independence. She's even helping me find ways to get it paid for. Like you, MTF, I gave up on that dream when I got married because my DH wasn't/isn't supportive. But its time for me to take responsibility for it.

quote:

I never want to leave. Does anyone else feel that way? I hate it when my hour is up sometimes.

Yeah, I've felt like that a lot. Sometimes I imagine watching myself (like Ally McBeal would do) desperately grabbing my T's legs at the end of session and screaming out, "No, don't send me away! I don't want to go!" But so far I have managed to be much more demure about it.

quote:

Of course sometimes I haven't even wanted to be there at all

Yep, I can relate to that too. Just last week I dragged my tardy self into the office in exaggerated slow motion (my T even called me a name -- Slow Poke -- the nerve!), sat down in the furthest corner possible away from her, and then made a new record for the fewest number of words spoken in a session.

quote:

Anyway, things are going well and getting better all the time.

That's awesome. This forum is a great place for being able to share both our bad and good times. Hope this momentum continues for you!

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. I want to respond to them, but I'll warn you now that I'll likely be writing a novel that is woven into the responses, so bear with me. I may try to make more sense of what's going on with me in a separate post about my last session with my T and where I am now.

AG:

quote:

it's a very healthy sign (this is in reference to my not wanting to leave my T's office), it means you are experiencing intimacy. I mean how many toddlers are anxious to get away from their mothers?

I'd not looked at the whole not-wanting-to-leave-my-T thing that way before. Thank you. I do relate to feeling like an anxious toddler being separated from her mother sometimes, and it feels humiliating and shameful. My T is NOT my mother, I wouldn't trade my mother for her, but I do wish she were more a part of my life than simply my T. Wait...that doesn't sound right. "Simply my T" makes it sound like what she is isn't much, and that's a huge blunder. She plays such a huge role in my life and I sometimes wonder if she realizes just how significant a part she really does play in my life. I hear myself talking like her sometimes. I find myself using similar facial expressions, hand movements, and even (get this, this is the weirdest part) being attracted to similar jewelry and some clothing styles as hers. She's 66 years old!! I do have to give her credit. She is a very jaunty and chic lady, especially for her age, and I love what being around her has done for me and my own personal style. I'm no longer the frumpy housewife I once was, and that feels so good!

Do you (any of you??) find you've 'become' your therapist sometimes, AG? If so, did it happen pretty early on? I've been seeing my T for 8 months now, every other week (with the exception of the last two months I've seen her once a week) for the most part. I think it's strange that so much of her has rubbed off on me so quickly. Here's another example: Initially she would use a word or two of profanity in sessions once in a while when she was trying to show me that she was really listening and empathizing with my pain, or mostly when she was really trying to get a strong feeling or message across to me. After a while I think she realized that I don't typically use that kind of language and that I picked up my old habit again because she was doing it. I ended up using it more than she was, and I think she realized that she had rubbed off on me. She knows I'm religious, and I came to find out that she is too. We're both members of the same church (don't go to the same building though) with the same 'standards' and 'values' we're supposed to be living by, so part of me thinks that she realized that her language usage was affecting me and that may have caused her to feel a bit of guilt because she has stopped it, and stragely enough, so have I! All it took was her getting religious on me one session and I knew that she knew that we both needed to do better and that she expected better from me. How's that for a surreptitious guilt trip? It worked... Anyway, just wondering if anyone else feels like a mini version of their T sometimes. It's weird.

Also, thanks for helping normalize my feelings about the couples session, AG.

quote:

So the loss of her full attention can be experienced as very threatening. The best thing to do is talk to her about it. How you feel when you see someone else moving close to your attachment figure or having their attention not be on you, is vitally important information about who you are and how you do relationships.

I know I should mention this to her, I just don't know HOW. I feel so strange now talking to her about personal stuff. It's like my feelings are mine and they need to stay mine, locked up and not expressed. I don't know why I feel this way suddenly. I don't want to share anything with my T anymore. I want to look like I'm okay now, like I don't have any more problems. I don't want her to see my issues, even though I know that's why I'm in therapy. How else is she going to help me, right?! So I'm struggling with feeling like she's one of 'them', you know, the people we don't want to see our flaws and imperfections? I know she's seen enough to realize I have plenty of issues, and that I'm not going to fool her. I just don't want to talk about stuff anymore. And worst of all, I don't know what to do about it. I'm scared to tell her that I'm numb again. Not spinning, but just no feelings, no desire to work on things, just content to sit by and do nothing. Ugh. She wants my DH to come in I think to my next session which isn't until next week on the 2nd of June. I want her all to myself because now I won't be getting a whole lot of her as it is. I'm back to the every other week schedule now and it's going to be hard because I just saw her Wednesday and it feels like it's been two weeks already. She'll call me this week in place of a session, which will be nice. I know I could mention stuff to her then, but she calls me on her lunch hour and I feel guilty taking more than like 5 minutes of her time. It's a check-in, not a session, so I just keep it short and simple. I hear her voice, know she cares, then I'm okay. This time I might hang up and cry, though.

And thanks for the idea about why she didn't give me a hug in front of my DH. I think you may be right, but I also think she gives hugs only when it's been a tough session. This last session was awful. The session was good, we talked about nothing to do with therapy, really! Turns out she used to live in the same house my recently divorced friend now owns and is trying to sell. This house is not even a whole block away from mine! The majority of the session seemed to be about nonsense stuff. She asked me things that pertained to therapy, but it didn't 'feel' like a session. It hasn't for a while now. Maybe it's me. Maybe it's her. Maybe she's gauging where I'm at before she decides to start pushing me and getting into the EMDR. She asked me if I am feeling emotions or if I am numb. I told her I'm pretty numb. She wants me to cut back on one of my meds so I'm not numb anymore. That's the clue that she's looking for me to be 'ready'. At the end of the session I gave her a thank you card and a small gift (inexpensive but something I knew she'd like and that reminded me of her, and she did seem to like it a lot and thanked me for it). It was time for me to go and it was her lunch hour. She was sucking on a jolly rancher at the start of our session and apologized, saying that the drug rep who was bringing in lunch had cancelled so she wasn't going to get lunch that day. So on the way out of her office she grabbed her purse and said she would grab a shake or something since she was going to be at the office until 8 o'clock. Well, as we rounded the corner a few of her colleagues were in the little 'kitchen' warming up leftovers from a day or two before so suddenly she just sort of ducks into this little room and says she's going to get some lunch while she can and doesn't even bother to say good-bye, show me down the hallway to the exit door or anything like she ALWAYS does. I figured we were going to walk out of the building together! Totally ruined my day. No hug, no putting her arm around me while we walked down the hall together. Nada! I know, some of you get nothing ever so I shouldn't whine, but when you get something on a routine basis and suddenly it's not offered, it hurts. I have felt really disconnected from my T now since that couples session almost a month ago and I wonder if it will ever get better from here or if things are just lost for good. I don't even have the desire to tell my T about this either because I feel like the incessant complainer who reads her letters about how she sucks as a therapist! Joking of course, but I guess I'm at an impasse here. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated... And thanks again AG for your words of wisdom. They're always very helpful!!


Jones:

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope to keep getting the chocolate treats, too! Yes, the medication is a lot of what has helped, but it's my demon right now. Seeing my doctor tomorrow so I hope he has some help to offer, as I'm back to feeling numb, flat, whatever you want to call it. Better than spinning, but it's almost bad enough that I start to spin just on the fact that I feel nothing and I know that is not normal or good.

Thank you for reminding me that I deserve some of the credit for where I am at on the positive side of things in my therapy. It helps to have someone put that into perspective for me, as it's so easy for me to just forget that I've had anything to do with any good things that have happened so far and to just give all the credit to my T. Things are still mostly up, but they could stand to get even better, so I'm hoping they will.

How are you doing in your therapy? Are you still seeing your T, or are the 3 months up? I'm sorry I haven't been following stuff on here. I've been quite disconnected, but I have thought about you and wondered where you're at in your therapy and how things are going with your DH and the therapy you were doing together with each of your Ts there to back you up. How did that work for you? If you have time, or can point me to where I can read about it, I'd love to know more!! Thanks again for your support, J!! It means a lot!


MH:

Gee, it's good to 'see' you on here again! I've missed you! Thanks for your message.

Yeah, the challenge to stay off the computer has been really hard. I feel really lonely actually, so I don't know that I'm going to work so hard at it. Obviously I'm here right now typing away. I think I just need to practice moderation with it. I'm sure you've heard that before! It is tough!! My T asked me if I feel like I'm getting my life back since I've been off the computer more, and although I could say 'yes', I was almost wondering what 'life' she was talking about!! LOL!! Seriously though, when you don't have a lof of support from people you feel a strong emotional connection to, it's hard to disconnect from a source of connection to others. This forum has literally been a lifesaver for me. I would have gone out of my mind in the earlier part of therapy had I not found all of you great people here, so for my T and DH to want me to disconnect (it was my DH who wanted me to spend less time on here and more time with my kids and on cleaning our pig sty, er...house) was really hard and even threatening to my emotional health in and of itself. Pretty sad, if I do say so myself.

quote:

I realize jealousy isn't an attractive attribute, but at least we are honest enough to admit it.

HA!!! You're funny! No it's not attractive, but I don't even care anymore. And yeah, I don't hide stuff with you people. I save hiding things for my T! Sorry you feel that jealousy too. It's awful. I could deal with it better if it were with other people, but when it's my husband, that's just not cool. I mean, we already have issues as it is, so why would I want to make it worse, ya know? Not looking forward to bringing him back in with me, although my T did say she's going to "hold his feet to the fire", so that ought to be good! Just kidding. He's trying, just not hard enough. But can they ever do a good enough job, really? Probably not.

quote:

It's hard for many of us to feel OK about taking care of our own dreams because we think we are being selfish or unworthy. We put ourselves on the back burner and make martyrs of ourselves. But its not loving ourselves to do that.

Amen! I have finally realized how I've short-changed myself for so long! I'm a martyr mom and I am finally getting to the point where I've realized that unless I take care of ME too and fill my cup too I'm not going to have anything to give. Heck, I already don't have anything to give because it's all been used up long ago and I'm trying to live on credit now and it's so not working!! I'm really glad that you are getting support from your T with your dream of going back to school. That's another one of mine that needs to be dealt with. I don't have DH's support either, so it's tough, huh? That's cool that your T is even helping you find out how to fund your education. She sounds like a great lady. I really hope you can get into school and get the education you weren't able to finish. That would be really awesome! You go, girl!!

Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't want to leave, and sometimes doesn't want to go. Your description of you doing the exaggerated slow motion thing was funny. I could imagine your T calling you a Slow Poke. I hope you're doing better at your next session! It's hard when we can't talk, isn't it? Best of luck!! And thanks for the encouragement!


Hugs to you all!
MTF

Hey MTF, it's good to hear more from you. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I wanted to just give you a quick update - I have four more sessions left with my T, but it actually feels ok. Either that or I'm repressing my grief, I have no idea these days!! We've had a couple of EMDR sessions that I've found quite tough but today was really excellent - we talked through all the reasons I was finding it tough, all my doubts and so on. We'll do one more EMDR session before we finish.

The couples stuff is ongoing, but we had to cancel last week's for unrelated reasons. Before that it had been setting us off into some very volatile patterns afterwards, which was quite scary for me. But last time we talked about ways to soothe & comfort each other after the hard work of a session, and agreed to go for a gentle debrief/coffee afterwards. This worked SO well, and we didn't have any arguments in the week afterwards. So I'm hopeful that we can keep working on the challenging stuff.

Hang in there with your meds/feelings balancing act. It's obvious the meds have a significant effect on your system, one way or another, and it will take time to finetune it so that you can keep your therapy progress going. You are still noticing and feeling stuff to some degree (like the reaction to the lack of a proper goodbye) - but it probably feels very weird to experience this in a different way to what you're so familiar with. I want to remind you of how TOUGH it was for you to front up with those incredibly brave letters/conversations in the first place, and how much healing you got from opening up in that way and explaining what was really true for you. I know you don't want to feel like a complainer - but I wonder if you can open things up again and move the relationship forward again, get some of that closeness back by showing your true feelings.


Ok, got to head off to bed!

Take care,
J

It's so good to hear from you again, MTF. I figured I'd respond to your post from the other thread here, too.

quote:

I don't want to share anything with my T anymore. I want to look like I'm okay now, like I don't have any more problems. I don't want her to see my issues, even though I know that's why I'm in therapy. How else is she going to help me, right?! So I'm struggling with feeling like she's one of 'them', you know, the people we don't want to see our flaws and imperfections? I know she's seen enough to realize I have plenty of issues, and that I'm not going to fool her. I just don't want to talk about stuff anymore.

Oh, this is so tough, MTF. In a slightly different way, I'm dealing with the same thing. My T doesn't know me well enough to know all of my issues, but she's smart, and from the 3 sessions I've had with her, I know that she has recognized definite problems that I have. But since I started therapy with her already having some knowledge of myself and my family, I feel like I have a completely different persona with her than I did with my first T, who I relied on a lot to help me "see" things. It felt more okay to be wrong with my first T than it does with this one. My new T is nice and open, so it's kind of an unfounded fear, but it's hard to get out of the funk where I'm afraid to admit my problems, things I'm struggling with, etc.

I'm completely speculating here, but I wonder if the reason you don't want to bring up issues is because you don't want to talk about difficult things when you're not even sure if you'll have the opportunity to talk it out with her, both because of the couple's session and because you're back to every other week. Which completely SUCKS, by the way...I know the feeling. It's awful. I wish I could offer some help there, but when I was going every other week with my last T, I tried to forget what day it was because I felt like I was counting down the hours and minutes until the next session.

Anyway, I kind of went off on a tangent, but it seems to me that maybe your feeling of just being okay sitting in her office and not bringing up issues is because that's so much easier than struggling in between sessions. I know how awful this is, because I had trouble bringing stuff up with my last T, since it was always so long in between sessions (sometimes more time in between than every other week). I'm sorry - I know you've said this before, but I've forgotten why you are going every other week. Is it because of insurance? Or your T's suggestion? Or neither? I apologize for not remembering.

quote:

I know, some of you get nothing ever so I shouldn't whine, but when you get something on a routine basis and suddenly it's not offered, it hurts.

This is completely understandable, and in my opinion, it's worse than getting that sort of treatment in the first place. Honestly, I think it's a bit of a relief for me that my T doesn't do that (of course, she's still new for me, but she doesn't seem like the type), because if something ever differed from the norm, I would completely freak myself out thinking of what I did to change the relationship. Who knows - I wonder how your T feels around her colleagues. I wonder if her style is different than their. We're all human, so maybe she felt like she would be judged by them on how she interacted with you? I'm just curious...how would you feel if you had this incident, but you still felt connected to her in session? To your T, this may not seem like that big of a deal, but it naturally does to you, considering you feel so disconnected from her already and now you've got a physical disconnection from her, too.

It's tough stuff. You have every right to feel the way you do. Besides, feelings are neither right nor wrong. I have to remind myself of this all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't!

Oh, and about the medication issue. I know that I too have always had a hard time with memories and memories with feeling. Since I feel like I have so few memories, it's hard to remember how I felt before I went on medication (it feels like I have a whole blank period of memories while I was in the throws of depression) - but I suspect I was much the same as you, MTF. I should try and bring it up with my T, but sometimes (ok, a lot of times) I wonder if I'm overreacting, since I'm not completely sure. This has been my "norm" for so long...Ugh. I wish I could just remember and know. Too bad it's not so easy. And you are a great help, MTF, in sharing your experiences like this. Seriously, it may just be the difference between me telling my T or not, since I know I'm not completely alone in this. So thank you.