quote:

I only had one major disagreement with something in the introduction. Miller makes the point that religions, 12-step programs, and other so-called "therapies" gloss over deeper childhood injuries by encouraging members to "forgive" in a way that is superficial and precludes true healing.

Actually I kind of understand it.
I didn't read th book, but heard/read about it somewhere. I think this kind of forgiveness is superficial, surface only forced out forgiveness, when there is anger and hurt and sadness still in there. I don't know if anything but long psychotherapy can heal these wounds and only after that the feeling of forgiveness appears (not the thought of forgiveness, but the feeling). I think I have the feeling of forgiveness sometimes, just sometimes, but I am not making myself to think that I should forgive.

I bought this book over a year ago. It was recommended that we read it to help us deal with our daughter who has some of the same issues I did growing up. It was very hard for me to get interested in it but I keep telling myself I need to go back and read it. My P was really excited when I first started reading it and so I kept going to try to make him happy, but I quit just a few chapters in. I will go and finish it.

What you said SG makes a lot of sense. I read the part of the faith based 12 step programs and decided I probably would not agree with her on anything. I am a christian and love going to my church groups and go deeper with people there than I ever had in therapy. My pastor at the church we started at almost 2 years ago new about my cutting and other issues in the first two months of knowing him because I felt like I could open up and trust him and not be judged. It turned to a deal where when I was having a hard time I would write him and tell him everything I could tell my P and he and his wife would spend most of the day praying for me.
I also go to Celebrate Recovery at my church. It is a 12 step faith based program and I love it. It does not teach you to just forgive people. It makes us go deeper into everything before trying to forgive. It also is very specific about pointing out that some things said for certain disorders or problems is not related to people who have been through sexual abuse. They say you deal with that in a different way and explain how so that there are steps to go through with your sponsor. The thing I love about Celebrate Recovery is also that it doesnt deal with just drugs or just alcohol, but it does those and co-dependency,self-injury,abuse,depression just about any emotional problem you can have. They still believe that anything you are trying to change in your life can be taken care of by following the faith based 12 steps and 8 principles and through God's help.

Celebrate Recovery also helps me open up in therapy more because there is no judgement by the people in my CR group.

Now I am going to go get that book and start reading.

Hi Pippi,

That book is so good, but it is definitely not "light" reading so I can totally understand why you would have stopped reading it...especially with all the work you're doing lately! But I'm glad you're going to give it another try.

That book was very affirming about what I need to do in my therapy. Forgiving my parents wasn't hard, by comparison...for me it is much harder to connect with, acknowledge, and grieve what I needed and didn't get as a child. There is this "voice" that says "she's fine, she doesn't need anything, she can take care of herself, stop feeling sorry for her, she's fine."

I was just talking to my T about this today. So far, I can only feel what I needed and didn't get when I think about losing my first BF. When I think about my parents...nothing. No feelings at all. No expectations there, no disappointment. I told her, I wish I knew what to do to "move it back" to my parents so I can work through the feelings at their source.

That's really great that you've found so much support through your church. We used to belong to a large evangelical church that always had Bible studies going and I participated in several. But even though I really tried, I had a hard time getting close to anyone. I'm an introvert and easily discouraged, so I'm sure that had something to do with it.

They also started a Celebrate Recovery group. I participated for a while, and I loved the idea, but we were only allowed 5 minutes to talk. It was understandable so everyone got a chance to talk, but I needed way more time than that. So that's why I sought therapy, for the individualized, focused attention. But again, I'm so glad you've received so much support through that group. It sounds like you've made some strong and healthy connections.

SG

I know what you are saying about the big churches. I came from a big church which was a weird experience. My grandpa and my dad are baptist preachers and my grandpa is from a really small baptist church. When we started going to a larger baptist church when we were growing up my grandparents hated it. Then our Baptist church planted a nondenominational church across town and we went there. It was a nice church and I am sure it had a lot of nice people but I couldnt connect with anyone. I usually sat alone in the back of the church which only made me feel more depressed. I am very shy so I couldnt go up to people and talk to them and when I was in the youth group no one wanted anything to do with me because of the cutting. That church is a well known church because of two of our missionaries Heather Mercer and Dana Curry were in prison in afghanastan and it was big time news. I then changed churches to Church Under the Bridge. It was awesome. We actually met under a bridge and worked with homeless. There were more people like me with mental issues, drug issues and people who were not welcomed into regular church. Now its where there are poor and rich, college students, business men and homeless, and people of every color and every denomination. It is amazing. But we moved an hour from there and that where we found our church. It is Baptist but doesnt act real Baptist. And the only reason I got close to people is because they reached out to me and my husband since the first time we visited. We have been there a year and a half. I could have never made the connections I did if they werent reaching out to me cause I am so scared to reach out to others.

Our CR is a little different. They say to keep their sharing to 3-5 minutes but we never do. We start out as a big group and break down into mens group and womens group. We go around and answer the questions but there is always time for people to share anything they need to share and we dont really worry about how long someone is taking. We let them finish what they need to say even if that means going over our two hour time period because the only way they are going to get better is sharing their problems with the group. But it is good to also have a therapist for that one and one time too!