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15 replies

New T wants to talk to old T

T turtleMember
AHHHHHHH!

Okay so my last T suddenly terminated with me over email. This has been very painful for me. I have begged her to reconsider. Then I got really angry. Then I went into a depressed sadness. I have now come to accept it with residual anger.

So I am to see this new T on Wednesday. She is going to want to talk to the T that dumped me. It is part of the therapy I am in. Part of the protocal. I am so upset because I think that the old T is going to taint my relationship with my new one.

My old T would make comments to me that were totally inaccurate and then when I would try to help her see the truth she would not allow me to speak about it.

For example, in one session she said to me "I bet you burned out your other therapist." I tried so hard to tell her that "No my other therapist retired" Every time I tried to say this to her she would immediately cut me off and and ask "Why do you need to ruminate about this?" I would work so hard session after session to try to tell her what really happened. So I finally left her a voicemail because I figured she could not cut me off then. So then she said to me "I am not going to listen to your messages if you are just going to try to explain things to me." Well over time I got very very angry with her. Frustrated too. I felt totally misunderstood on so many levels. The truth was my old T retired and had many physical illnesses hit her and was unavailable to talk to her about me. When my old T (the one before the dumping T) retired she told me that I was one of her favorite clients and that she loved me and that she would miss me terribly and that she cared deeply for me. She did not say she was burned out on me. Then the next one I saw practically became my friend. That is why I left her because we just chit chatted. She still talks to me on the phone even today. It's just I can't see her as a T. So dumping T was totally wrong.

To make things even more complicated Dumping T (DT) is in a consultation group and she has gone to them for 7 months complaining about me. I am in a group with one of the other members of her consultation group. This therapist has helped me to find a new T. I really like her a lot but she doesn't have room to see me. So she recommended this T I am to see on Weds. I have decided that I would let the Weds T talk to the group T and not the DT. (lol I know that gets complicated if you're still trying to follow it)

I don't know what to do with this new T. I want a good start. I feel defensive before I even start with her because she is going to hear things about me. Yet I realize that if I act defensive I will just validate the horrible things being said about me. I have thought that I would try to just weather it. Just accept that she will hear these things and then prove them wrong.

THis is so very hard. I feel like an animal in a cage trying to get help but having a chart hanging outside the cage door that says "Bad animal"
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S shamanMember
Hey Turtle,

That sucks! I can so understand your frustration. The only way to go, I think, is just to try and trust your new T's judgment of what she gathers from talking to the group T and from her interaction with you. If she a decent T she won't go judging you without getting to know you. I realize it must be very difficult after your latest experience, but try not to be defensive and not prove anything. Just be you.
Let us know how it goes, ok.

Big hug
sdsdMember
in my country no T can speak to any other health professional without your expressed written permission and then you control what information is supplied.

So I would have thought that if you didn't give permission then this T couldn't do.

When i started with my T, I asked her if she would talk to my ext T - but when i thought about it, I didn't go ahead with signing the confidentiality release forms.

My T told me that she didn't need to speak to anyone to commence working with me.

somedays
MallardMallardMember
Ack, Turtle, I would not be happy too. Because I only see private Ts and insurance is not factored in, I have never run into this. Because I have more control, I would just cite my right to confidentiality and say no.

Ts are professional people and they do take what they hear from other Ts with a pinch of salt. They're also aware that therapy is a funny inexact science and sometimes personalities do not gel.

How about you email or speak to T and lay out some of what you've just shared here, explain your dilemma; and leave an open ended question saying something like "I was wondering if we could discuss some of my concerns about potentially getting off on the wrong foot?"

This way you look like someone who's trying to be transparent. New T knows what's going on and gets to hear it from your mouth before anyone else's. I know it's potentially risky and you know your situation better than I do.

Take care and good luck!

Edited to add: bottom line is that it's your choice and I would think that confidentiality means she cannot speak to old T if you simply say no? I don't know exactly how things work where you are.
nannabeenannabeeMember
(((turtle)))

Your DT sounds awful. That would have frustrated me to no end not being able to correct her misconceptions. Yuck.

Listen, turtle, you have absolutely no obligation to let this new T talk to any of your old T’s if you don’t want her to. You say it is a part of the therapy you are in. I am assuming this means it is a part of DBT? I’ve never done DBT, but I do know this- if you go in to see this new T, and you explain that you are uncomfortable with her talking to your former T and your reasons why, and she insists that she won’t treat you otherwise, then you don’t want her for a T. The “rules” should never be more important than the actual client.

The whole consultation group thing with your DT gives me chills. It is unethical for a T to disclose your confidential info, even to their consultation group. They are supposed to use fake names and change identifiable data. The fact that the male T you saw briefly already knew things about you from that consultation group is a big ethical violation in my book.
T turtleMember
Hollow,
I know I felt abused. I mean there were times she was very nice to me but then there were times like the one I wrote about that drove me crazy quite literally. It did not bring out the best side of me.

Shaman, I am thinking that is the course I am going to take. Thanks for that advice

RB I mean that is good advice as well but I would really wonder if they would honor it. I did rescind permission I gave her for something else and she didn't seem to hear me on it.

Somedays, Yes that is true here too. We have to sign a release of information in order for our Ts to speak to anyone. My fear is that this new T will not see me unless she can talk to DT. She comes with good recommendations and I don't want to lose working with her.

Mallard, How about you email or speak to T and lay out some of what you've just shared here, explain your dilemma; and leave an open ended question saying something like "I was wondering if we could discuss some of my concerns about potentially getting off on the wrong foot?"

That is good advice. Maybe I will bring in what I wrote here.

Draggers i would get her to phone nice old T or friend t as well for a bit of a balance if she insists on phoning horrid T.

Great idea!! I will definitely do that.
T turtleMember
Nanna,

Yes she was sort of awful. I liked her though too. I know that sounds weird but she could be very nice yet she made all these big assumptions about me based on very little information.

Yes it is dbt and I have been reading the book that therapists read in order to impliment dbt. It is sort of one of their things that they speak to old Ts. I would love to just tell the new T that "no I don't want you to speak to her" but my fear is that she won't work with me. It's been hard to find a new T. I guess the Ts in my area are swamped and have more work than they can manage (I guess we're all losing our minds here. lol) So I feel like if I don't cooperate that she can just say "Next!"

On the consultation group. Yes DT (I'll just use her common name Nancy) specifically wanted me to go to the dbt skills group lead by two of her consultation group people because she wanted congruety in care. So I had to specifically sign a release of information so she could speak to them about me in group. I protested at first. I said to her that it felt humiliating to have them know who I actually am after she had been going there to talk about me. She was very mean about that too. She said things like "Why do you have to see it that way?" Why do you do this?" etc. She explained to me that they were a very compassionate group of people and that they never speak in prejorative terms etc. I believe her HOWEVER I think she was presenting me as a much worse person than I am. So the group leaders are truly nice and I would LOVE to work with one of them because they took the time to explain things to me and help me understand instead of insulting me and treating me like an idiot. Yet they have listened to her this whole time and it bothers me because it is inaccurate. Man this is helping me remember all the crap she said to me that was so unfair. I guess in truth I am glad I am done with her. So glad. They lied to me too about the male T being in their consultation group. I asked them if he was but no one would answer me. When I saw him and HE told me that he is in the group I realized then that I could not work with him. This has been so painful. Thank you for your reply and for reading this if you managed to get this far.
T turtleMember
I guess I am having a melt down. I thought I could handle all of this but I can't. I can't stay strong. I have tried so hard to stay strong for 6 weeks now.

DT has humiliated and shamed me so much and I can't recover from it. I am so ashamed in the dbt group after the horror that she has put me through in front of them. I should just walk away from all of them. That is what I should do. I need help though. I still need help. I have tried so hard to find a therapist I can talk to about my the horrible abuse I suffered as a child and I keep running into one thing after another. The T I saw before dumping T became like friend. Refused to talk about anything of importance. Only chatted with me. She told me of her problems and her life etc. This went on for 3 years. My mom died and my dog died and my dad died and I fell apart. I tried to find help. I tried. I saw therapist after therapist while I was completely falling apart. I could not act like an adult. I was like a needy little child. Immediately I was judged to be very mentally ill. But before all this happened I was competent and I help myself together. Now I am on this horrible path of being treated like a piece of shit by these therapists because I could not present myself as a full adult. I am recovering from my mom's death and yes my dog did matter that much too. I am recovering from her death as well. Now I am getting stronger again but this reputation of being some horrible person follows me because the last T I saw (Nancy) treated me so poorly and when I reacted to it she took that and shouted it out to her entire consultation team. It is these very people I am seeking help from and because I am the client and she is the "doctor" I am not believed. What did I do to deserve this? What? I know the real me. I know who I am. I know that I am capable and I am competent. It's just that the last 2 years has nearly destroyed me and I have ended up in the hands of some very shady people.
sdsdMember
Oh, that last bit about them hosting marsha linehan really tipped me off the edge. That would have driven me mad.

It all sounds so intermingled/messy/professional back patting shit that I hate.

Can you break free of this lot? Or see the T that you want without all this added garbage?

Or another DBT group altogether.

I couldn't stand any of this. I hate that the others would know about me. Just hate it.

THinking of you
Somedays
puppetpuppetMember
aww (((turtle))), that is truly horrible, DT is truly horrible! i can really understand wanting to get away from the group and all of them! i hope this new T has the guts to see the abuse that has been going on and will not keep quiet like the rest of them! can you tell her what you've been telling us here? or start smaller if it feels too risky? hang on in there turtle, and the time will come when you will have some justice, someone on your side, someone who will believe you and help you (with whatever you decide to do, report DT or just move on...). you are brave and are doing so well!

puppet
greeneyesgreeneyesMember
((turtle)) what an absolute nightmare. You are being put through hell unnecessarily and I'm so angry you're having to endure this in context of horrendous abuse and inept moronic, unprofessional past therapists. Don't give up searching for a good T, they ARE out there and you DO deserve one and to heal. Huge hugs and love xxx
T turtleMember
(((Somedays))) Thank you for the support and empathy. Yes it is very hard to tolerate. I will update after I address those who have responded.

Puppet - Man, I don't feel brave. Not at all. I talked with the group T and she had some nice things to say to me. I am pretty sure I'll just move on because I have spent a month on this pain so far and I have my own very real issues to deal with.

Greeneyes- Thank you for your kind words. I have had a good T in the past. I guess that's why I know that's how it is supposed to go.

Nannabee - So thoughtful of you to ask me on the follow up YES I did see the new T yesterday. Will write about it in the next post.
T turtleMember
***UPDATE****

So I did go see the new T yesterday. It was odd but ultimately it went well. First I did talk to the T in my dbt group and she was so nice. She is the consultation group with the T who dumped me. She basically told me that they don't judge her but that she failed me as a therapist. I guess that's how it is seen when it doesn't work out in dbt therapy. They don't see it as the clients fault but rather as the therapists fault. She said that Nancy told them that it was too close to my mothers death and that she reminded me of my mother and that she thought that she was triggering me way too much. I can't disagree with that. Where I get frustrated is where she may have left out her part in it. I suspect that I triggered her as well.

So I met with the new T yesterday and when she brought me back to her office There was a young woman sitting there in her office already and I sort of stopped dead because I didn't understand it. She introduced me to her and said "She's going to be your therapist here" Well she was really young. I mean like mid 20s IF. I was frustrated because I had heard so much about this new T and how good she was that I was really pretty upset at that point. I know I can't work with someone that young. I just can't. Again I felt sort of tricked. I grabbed my bag and I started heading toward the door. The T very kindly said "Come on back. Come and sit down. Let's talk about this. Let's figure this out." So I sat back down and she started to ask me personal questions. I said
"I'm sorry but I am not going to answer these questions if this isn't going to work out from the start." To which she said that she would be my therapist. Thank God! I told her that the group T had said she would be my T. I apologized to the young T and told her it wasn't personal but rather that I knew myself and knew what I needed. She is going to be my group leader though. I will so miss the group I am now. I loved the leaders and I really liked the clients. I will miss them and it feels like another loss. The woman who runs that group is nationally known for her work and she worked closely with Linehan for decades. They are friends. I will miss her. She told me that she was going to miss me a lot too. She said I had so much to give to group and that I was very respectful, helpful and funny. At least I made a friend out of the group. She's great. We've been hanging out some. Anyway next week I have to go back to the new T and be psychologically assessed. Whatever that means. I am wondering if it will be IQ tests or what. I was given one of those once and surprised myself. lol. I am rambling here. Anyway thank you all for your support in this really trying time.

I feel now that I have found someone that I can sort of forgive old T. I think I can. I think we triggered one another. It is unfortunate.

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