It looks like I started posting in October about a year ago. I haven't been reading or posting as much as I used to, since July, for a bunch of reasons. Luckily, none of them are bad reasons.

I'm kind of in a good spot in my therapy right now (OK, now I jinxed it ). The last time I posted here I was having trouble with my therapist, but it seems that was the beginning of a big transition period in our relationship. I'm not as preoccupied with the therapy anymore, and I am extremely busy.

I would rather spend more time on the forum than doing schoolwork, but I have to get through it and put the time in.

When I was here more regularly, I ended up making a "cheat sheet" with information about all the people who posted regularly, so I could remember who was who and match them up with the important parts of their stories. I like the idea of a biographical blurb. I know that the introductions section is a logical place, but when I first came on to the forum, I didn't want to say too much about myself right away. It took me a couple of months.

There is no doubt in my mind that reading and posting here has helped me grow in my therapy and in my life. I really have a lot of respect for this place and for all of you.

I talked to my therapist about how much I learned here.

Even if I only learned one thing...like, When in doubt, tell your T how you feel--that probably shaved three years off my therapy time right there!

Yeah, communities ebb and flow. I hope a bunch more people get to share and be supported and learn and grow here.

Quell

Guess I am more of a silent one as well.

There are plenty of reasons why I am not a very active poster.

For one, I am fairly new to T, not even having completed a year and I still feel that I am lacking the insight many of you already have on here. Being a rookie, I don't feel I have much to contribute nor does that make me worthy to comment.

In addition, I am not an eloquent writer. It's difficult for me to express what I really want to say and I am worried people have no idea what point I am trying to make.

At times I have some questions and would love to hear your thoughts on it or just get some support but I don't want to come across as needy. It also seems rather selfish to ask for advise but not being able to give some myself.

So yes, these are a few explanations why I am not present so much.

Sorry.

I don't know if anything I ever say could be of any help to anyone here (if I could reach just one person, I'd feel joy), but I want to address the comments that point to one of our common bonds here: feeling unworthy.

There is no requirement to offer any of ourselves here. Anyone is free to ask, ask, ask...without being obliged to ever answer. Everyone and anyone is free to ask for help as they need it-and there is no expectation that the asker/needer return the support.

There is no give-take ratio, no score keeping, no debt accumulation, and especially-no owing. Receiving help from another does not incur a debt. And in my opinion, no one should expect anything in return for offering support. People do appreciate responses, but not everyone is able to reply. Or maybe someone is triggered by another's attempt to support, so they dont reply to the thread responses. Many of us understand that...

Oops, I just realized how ridiculous this post might sound...Oh well... What I'm trying to say is this-

Love is a gift, not a loan.

Besides, many people benefit from threads started by only those who ask questions. Even those who might ask the same questions over and over.

We are all worthy of receiving care and help and support of others. It's intristic value of human life. And its unconditional, mutually exclusive of what you do or who you are or what you offer.

It took me awhile to get this. I was a teen Mom. And a single Mom-no Dad on weekends, I literally had to be both the mother and the father of my child. No family support. It was very hard. I struggled alot. Yet, many offered help. I ran from it. I would have accepted help in a heartbeat from family, but these were men. And attracted to me. I always worried I'd 'owe' them something if I accepted their help. And well, that was too scary to me. My mind was somehow convinced that I had to pay back anyone from whom I accepted help. What BS.
My child, I believe, suffered as a result of our hardship. We all have hardship, but things could have been easier if I had simply said yes to those who wanted to help. But I did eventually, when my child became a young adult, allow myself to be in a relationship with someone who did offer help. But it came with a price-I was showered with gifts and money and help with the house...the car.
He was abusive. And that is, perhaps, why I accepted the help. Maybe my unconscious beliefs told me it was ok to receive ad I was punished for it.

I still have not finished working through my guilt. But that was then, and this is now. Oh how we can grow. Change. Look how malleable we are.
Please don't be me. Learn from my mistakes and I will learn from yours.

As a result of therapy, I can freely accept from others. I don't feel obligated to return favors. I dont feel guilty for accepting love. I don't fret about owing anyone. My new sense of Self, thanks to my beloved therapist. I would have never built my self-worth without him. And I owe him nothing. I am worthy. It's incredible how different the world seems now.

Love grows exponentially, too. You'll see...

Please just remember - love is a gift, not a loan.

xoxo - I believe everything you said - logically my head says absolutely! My issue is that even though I believe that, i can't accept it. how conceited and self-centered i would be for believing that. you can't be that and feel good about yourself because then you aren't thinking of others and that's what you're supposed to do! ACKKKK - just me losing it. Thanks for giving me something to read over and over again until maybe one day it will sink in.

that was beautiful xoxo
i'm not there but maybe some day...

puppet

xoxo that was lovely. I do agree.

I just wanted to add a point here.

What I am most drawn to reading and what has helped me the most on this board was reading about the sessions of others here. I'm not looking for their knowledge or fool proof advice to solve my problems.... what has helped me so much is reading about how others interact with their Ts what their T will tell them and how they approach their session. There was much more of this type of post here in the past. I have tried to share what happens in my sessions and to share what my T teaches me. I think it's important to pass on what I learn from him and what I learn from taking risks in therapy. Even if you all think nothing much happened in session, it can be helpful for others to read and learn from or just know that there are others who experience the same feelings and fears.

This has been a great thread.
TN

(((XOXO)))

Your post didn't sound ridiculous at all. Thanks for sharing that with us. Having had parents (mostly mother) who had strings, I'm still having to unlearn feeling obligated. It's hard to accept a gift at face value when someone offers it to me but I am learning. Feeling obligated even when the other isn't expecting anything from you is such a burden to carry.

Just wanted to ask how you are doing since your move? You actually sound much more at peace with everything and, dare I say, content?

((((Draggers)))) I'm really glad you shared what you did. I'm guilty for not posting a whole lot lately, but I have noticed the trend you mentioned and it is frustrating. Sometimes I think new people have to sort of see how this place works, see that give-and-take, and then learn from that, but I think some people don't pick up on that all the time.

I just want to tell you how amazed I am - all the time - at how much you give to others, especially when you're dealing with so much on your own. And I'm not just saying that. It's something I've always noticed and admired since I first joined this wonderful place! So I hate that you feel like all you're giving is taken in vain, because I know in my case it is most certainly not.

Dragonfly
I am sorry that you feel that way but get why you do..I have tended to stick to one thread only for comfort/safety sake.. but am slowly trying to branch out a bit onto other threads

we for one know how much you give to folks here as we have received so much from you and others

pingsy x

Hi all,

I am now considered an experienced person i suppose!!!! I remember starting out and i felt so scared and apprehensive. You just have to start. You have to dabble. You post and give hugs to people, you give little bits of support within what you are comfortable with. You just keep doing that until after a couple of weeks you find a thread and it is about something that you have experience on and you feel you can feel contribute to. You get more confident. You start to help 1 or 2 people and get to know them. You build trust and you build confidence.

To do all this - you have to be around - for weeks and months. You have to have a presence and some consistency. You just keep trying.

Someone commented on the number of views. I never look at that and I don't think anyone should worry about it that much. I have started threads on the same thing months apart - and one time got 2 comments and the next time 10 comments - it it about stages, about where people are at, luck - anything. you might post when there is a national holiday weekend in a country, or a power strike, or hurricane that wipes out power or lots of reasons.

Also we have to remember that we are an international group with different time zones. I swear I have my own time zone - when I am awake most of the world is asleep.

And for me. I have been missing for a couple of months. I get the notifications whenever posts are made, but I have been unable to contribute. The anniversay of being terminated hit me hard, and then I have had about 7 weeks of major issues and a huge rupture with my T where I terminated her (briefly). I had to disconnect from most people - people in real life and online - for me to cope.

So sometimes - the timing is just off with a lot of us.

It is great that we are all talking about this.
Somedays.

Aww, lovely Draggers, not cross at all, just sad 'cause you are hurting. You hurt because you care so much and try so hard and I'm sorry for the times I've been thoughtless and not made sure to appreciate how much that means, because it's such a beautiful thing to help others.

I think, because when I have had those feelings, they have nearly always been projections about how I feel about myself and I've been aware of them as such, that's how I hear those statements. So, if someone says they feel they don't belong, it makes me very sad, but I try very hard to realize it's a feeling they are having about themselves. So, it's like, "On some level, I know I'm worthless and don't deserve to be supported, and I'm afraid you have all figured that out, agree with it and are about to reject me."

It is really painful to be projected on, even in a group, so I'm not at all minimizing the validity of the hurt. For example, my H often hears me disagreeing with him as me calling him stupid, saying he never gets anything right. I have no such feelings about him (think he's really smart, actually, and makes a lot of really good decisions), but sometimes he insists not only on feeling insulted/rejected, but that I MEAN to insult and reject him. It hurts so bad, like a knife in my heart, when he can't see how different my feelings are. For that reason, I was hesitant when I first posted in this thread to express those sort of feelings...and I try to be careful to label them as MY feelings, possible projections and hope nobody gets hurt.

So, like your post above, although you are upset by people taking certain actions (not appreciating the support they have, not extending themselves to try to get to know others more), and of course I do worry, "Oh no, am I doing that without realizing?", what I hear is your feelings. So, I hear, "I am trying so hard and it feels like it is never enough. I feel others don't appreciate the support I do give, which makes me feel I'm not valued and I want to give up." That makes me really sad. Say I was one of the people you thought that about...in my heart, I feel like you do SO much and it's so valuable to me, and maybe your saying so is a reminder to make sure my feelings of love for you are being expressed. I guess I'm saying, I hope you are able to hear that in our hearts, we feel you are so important and do so much, are just a lovely, dear friend. I can't speak for everyone, but that's how it is for me. I also hope you know the first one we want you to take care of, my sweet, is you. Because you are too valuable to ignore, to support others at your own expense.

Anyway, I hope none of this made anything worse. I just wanted to make sure to take the opportunity to share what is in my heart toward you, apologize if it doesn't get said enough...and tell you, I believe most others feel the same toward you...or at least how could they not?

Written on my phone, so sorry for any typos.

Aww, sweetie, I was not saying anything was wrong with your feelings. I think they are natural and I have the same reaction too. I guess, I hope that others don't want people here to feel responsible for how they feel about themselves. I think giving when you have something to give is a good policy to follow and something I try to do...well, even sometimes when I don't have much to give except to say that I am here and listening. I guess I just felt responsible as someone in the past who has felt that sense of "unbelonging" to say outright that it isn't anything anyone ever really did that made me feel that way. It is just messages already in my head that get triggered sometimes. It's valid to feel hurt when you try hard and don't feel the person "receives" what you're offering. I know I unconsciously do that a lot, push away what's being given out of fear. Anyway, I'm really sorry if I'm one of the ones who makes you feel that way. I try to appreciate what I'm given, but sometimes I wonder if people don't know that a (((hug))) is more than just a cursory thing to me, but like, "I feel connected to you and this is the best way I can express it." Maybe because I give them a lot when people respond, or maybe because I push away others' suggestions when feeling trapped. All I was trying to say is my feelings are so very different from unappreciative in my heart and maybe others are like me and do a crap job of expressing them at times.

Lots of love to you, my dear.

Draggers,

Awww I am sorry that you feel that way, you do put such enormous effort into welcoming people here and replying to their posts

I only wanted to say a couple of things really: firstly I know that I do not post as often (or as lengthly) as others, it's not because I don't care, it's really largely because I don't have time. I work long days and often into the evenings too so I often have to prioritise my responses sadly when I come here because I need to try keep a balance in my life and fit in all the other things I need to do . Secondly I guess too we can not be entirely responsible for people here, to the extent of making ourselves suffer as a result. Some people will feel they fit in quicker than others, but that is maybe not always because of our responses (or not). I know that for me personally I take a long time to trust and share, others are comfortable jumping straight in with sharing their stuff... and all are equally fine.

I hope the above doesn't sound harsh, I really don't mean it to be, but I hate to see others get hurt here when maybe they shouldn't because they are doing more than enough already

starfishy

been kind of watching this thread from afar. i think this is a good thread and i thank you xoxo for starting it up. there's just tons of feelings here, arent there?
i'm fairly new here and i'm the kind that will contribute for awhile then distance myself. it works for me that way. and i'm always welcome after i take a break. i lurked for months before becoming a member. i became a member because it seemed like a caring and knowledgeable community, and it is!
right now i'm feeling really sad i think for a lot of reasons. i realize people, circumstances, times ... they all change and they need to change. i get that. that's just life. it's just interesting because i've been a member about a half a year and the feel here has changed fairly drastically. we HAVE lost a lot of long-timers in a short time. it was like these people are here all the time then one by one they leave, and it's still happening ((( CTL ))) comes to mind. i know it's life, but i'm just feeling really sad about it . and i see people like ((( draggers ))) who contribute SO much and feeling SO hurt by generalized comments aimed at nobody in particular but everybody in general, and it is unfair. draggers, i know you don't want the accolades, but anytime you post, i listen. you are wise and sensitive and caring and you can leave if you need to but i hope you never do because you are SUCH a valuable member of this community. i appreciate you SO much . you are the strongest yet the most sensitive person i've never met, but would be honored to.
yes, i have to admit that it IS difficult to see how some "oldies" relate to each other like they're old buds, but i think what people need to realize is that there is a history between these people. these people can pm or contact each other privately somehow, but they are sharing openly on this forum. they know this forum is public. yet they share. i KNOW it's hard to interject when it seems like there's something going on between "oldies" .... but that's such a huge reason why this forum is as awesome as it is. like therapy, this forum is a huge opportunity to step outside of your comfort zone and maybe throw in a comment here or there no matter how uncomfortable you are. after all, there are not that many places where you can be so vulnerable yet be so safe. i can almost guarantee tha you will be acknowledged and appreciated. take a chance! yeah, there are times you're gonna get hurt here, but i can almost guarantee (speaking from experience) it's a reflection of the hurt that you've been carrying around inside you and NOT from what others on this forum hand you. i hope i'm making sense to somebody other than myself .
and i hope i'm not scaring any newbies away, either, because newbies are important. newbies become oldies if they stick around. over time it gets more comfortable. it's like real life, really. you enter a new school or a new job and you don't know anybody but everybody else seems to know each other. it might be uncomfortable for awhile as you get to know them and they you, but over time it gets easier, hopefully. before you know it you're feeling more comfortable and you may be more vulnerable because people know more about you but it's a respected vulnerability. i'm starting to ramble. sorry. i just see this forum as transitioning. transition can be hard, but can be so fruitful. i'll cry for the loss of some of those that have left here, but with open arms welcome short-time visitors, lurkers, newbies that hopefully become oldies.
this place really has been a god-send for me. the people here really are marvelous. loving, smart, and attuned. i'll stop now.

you raise good points CD.

When I was new - i noticed the friendships and the warm way people related to each other and I felt that I could never be like that. I felt like I was muscling in and people had their clique groups.

Bit by bit I kept chipping away at it and kept having a presence and then OMG, before I knew it - i started to have those relationships. I am sure new people would look at the way I write (if i am not in the middle of an AWOL and breakdown) and think that I have special relationships with people. But it wasn't like that a year ago.

You just have to keep chipping away at it. And you need to BE HERE. that is my biggest thing. You have to do a little bit of stuff constantly.

For those of us that have been here a long time - we have seen tons of people come and go. You kinda never know who is going to stick around. You build up relationships and then they leave. Hmmmmmm, what does that remind me off. For me that triggers a truckload of bad stuff related to my mental health issues - you get close to people and they leave you........So just by me being here in this community challenges my old patterns of beliefs. Scary.

A little bit but often.

Guaranteed that no matter how long you stay away
a) when you return someone will remember you and
b) no matter who or what or where you are - your return will be welcomed warmly by lots of people here.

Somedays

Dear everyone - hi! I feel a bit sheepish posting here because I haven't been posting for such a long time, but I do now and then pop in to read and I read this thread and felt like there were a couple of things that I really wanted to say. But first, hugs to everyone I haven't seen for ages and warm hellos to everyone I haven't met before.

Draggers, I really want to pick up on a couple of things you said, because I hate the thought of you carrying a heavy load, and I feel that maybe there is another way of thinking of some of the issues here. You and others do bring so much warmth here and it's wonderful, and because of that I think it is especially important to practice good self-care around this. Bend your knees if you have to pick up that piano! But double check first - does the piano need to be moved?

quote:

have had to walk away through burn out from posting so much and trying to support people and yet it still isnt good enough

The thing I want to say here is that I know how painful it can be, when you're a really empathetic person, to see others hurting or feeling left out or unsupported. We can run a long long long long way to try to fix this, and yes, we can burn out. Because very often it's not good enough. Because very often when someone is feeling left out, there are some things in their own experience that they need to sort out before they can have the feelings of fitting in. They might need to learn to reach out, or to double check their perceptions of others, perhaps there is some projection going on, or they might need to find a gentler or more forthright way of talking, or to learn to follow up on conversations because others really do SEE them.... Could be heaps of different things. So being here, just like being in therapy, is one place to learn those things. But the work people need to do to get there is sometimes long and complex, involving puzzle pieces of trust, insight, inner strength, time and general 'readiness'.

And if we don't have those puzzle pieces yet, what someone else does to help us can't be 'good enough'. Because if they bend over backwards, they are the ones doing the yoga, when we need to gradually stretch and strengthen our own muscles. It gets complicated when someone is hurting themselves to help us, but we just aren't yet at the part where we can take in the help. We may not KNOW that we have to do the stretching - we may still want someone else to do the backbend for us - but somehow it just doesn't work that way.

So I think it is really lovely to make a warm space for people, but I also think it's worth looking twice at our own need to stop people hurting. Often people need their pain, because it holds the ingredients of their growth. And if you feel urgently that you need to take someone else's pain from them, and you are over-extending yourself to do that, in a way it's like playing pass the parcel with the pain - it goes around and around from one person to the next but the pain never gets unwrapped, it just gets more layers! Does that make sense?

And then the other related thing I wanted to say was that maybe it's okay when the forum goes quiet for a while. Maybe that is like the silence in therapy, where so much happens. People chew over ideas, they feel stuff, process stuff. They figure out what they want to bring forward. They realise that it's their hour, and if they want to talk, they have the space. I work in groups sometimes and I realised a while ago that I was shutting the quiet ones up accidentally because when it was silent for a while I HAD to say something. The quiet ones just had a longer tolerance for quiet than me! After a long silence sometimes the energy is different, people have had time to let old ideas go and let new ones rise up....

So anyway, two cents on the table! Thank you Draggers for speaking so frankly and passionately, and thank you everyone else too for having the conversation, it's a really interesting one and there's so much care for the community in it. I'll bow out again now, leaving lots and lots of fondness and love here.

You hum it, Draggers, I'll play it! ((((Draggles)))) My best advice for the tired is just to let it go. Give yourself a break. Cup of tea. Mind the bannisters. xxxx