quote:

I'm shattered. I have desperately wanted this to work out. I feel like it's mostly my fault that I couldn't be the patient she wanted me to be, wouldn't cooperate and do the schema stuff like she wanted me to (because the attachment is screaming too loudly), and I feel like a failure as a patient. I know a lot of it is my T too, it just hurts so much that after all I tried I have failed at another relationship

MTF,
I'm sorry as I have faint idea of what a horrifically difficult, painful decision this has been for you. But I do NOT accept that you were a failure as a patient. As a child with their parents, so it is with a therapist and their client: the therapist is completely responsible for setting the boundaries (I'm quoting my T). The patient's responsibility is to respect the boundaries which are set. That doesn't mean we feel good about those boundaries, I know I didn't much of the time. You have respected those boundaries. Your T, in the other hand, despite her obvious care for you, failed terribly at setting clear consistent boundaries for you. I think your analysis of her behavior above was very clear sighted.

And you were also very correct about the need for security before you could engage in the schema work. Doing schema work is hard and painful and impossible to do unless you first feel safe. My therapist often said that therapy is where you feel safe enough to feel scared. It is within the safety that is provided by clear, consistent boundaries that we are free to face our terrors and griefs. You were never provided that safety.

As much as this decision has cost you, IMHO, I think you have made the right one. I am so sorry though that it was a necessary decision.

Please come here for support however often you need it.

AG

((((MTF))))

Like AG said, as hard and painful and absolutely awful this decision must feel, I think it is the right one. You've done so much hard work, MTF, and I think that if your T was able to be as committed as you are then you certainly would have made progress. You are right, she's overworked and simply can't be committed enough having so many clients. I actually think it's borderline irresponsible for her to have so many clients because it makes it nearly impossible for her to be an effective therapist.

Please post as much as you need..we'll be here to listen.

Many Hugs (((((((MTF))))))))

I think I feel some of your pain.

MTF,

I'm so sorry to hear this, but like the others have said I think you made the best choice you can for you even if it is painful now. (((hugs)))

(((MTF)))...I follow many of your threads and I, too, think you are making the right decision(FWIW)....I'm sorry it is so very painful...I wish you the best in finding a new T...mlc

(((((MTF)))))

So sorry to hear this. Always the optimist, I was hoping she would be able to help you move through the pain ... but I don't always make the best decisions myself.

Keep posting through this difficult time. Whatever decision you make I am sure everyone will support.

Liese

(((MTF))))

I really don't know enough about your T and the interactions between the two of you to make a judgment about her. If I remember correctly, she is a trauma T and should understand attachment issues better than most therapists. And, since she is 68, she should also have a good amount of experience behind her.

That being said, I want to go out on a limb here and point out that I am seeing a little pattern in that both times you wanted to leave your T, you were angry with her about something. Take it for what it's worth. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to stay with someone you are not comfortable with.

IMHO, the fantasizing about our T's comes about because of the pain inside we don't want to face. It's just so much more pleasant to think about our T's than the reality of our lives. (speaking just for myself here) I think it's hard to leave a T in the middle of all those unresolved feelings that you have for her. To me, it would feel more like a tearing. The unfortunate reality is that if you leave her, you may spend months with a new therapist trying to resolve your feelings for her when perhaps you could resolve them with her more quickly.

But it does sound like you and your Mom hashed things out and you already made a decision to find someone else to go to. Maybe that's not necessarily a bad thing either. Sometimes it helps to get another perspective and see what else is out there. Maybe you would just click better with someone else. There is no harm in trying. It could be a good thing, though, to leave hopefully on good terms so that you would have the choice to go back if you wanted to.

As always, I know I am the one who most often advocates staying with a T, trying to hammer things out. So please forgive if I am way off base. It's becoming clear to me that I'm not a big advocate of change.

Hugs,

Liese

(((MTF))) Find words failing me, so sending hugs and prayers your way!!!

((((mtf)))) you are not a failure by any means. It takes great strength, courage, and wisom to face a relationship that is not workable, especially a therapy kind of relationship. I've been through it... my old t was praised by many to be wonderful and an expert... and she just wasn't what I needed and wasn't helpful for me. It has taken me time to see that it wasn't because I failed. oh that pain of wanting it to work... I can tell you good will come of this and it will get better, and yet I know it doesn't change how awful right now is and the pain of going through this. I'm so sorry. Hang in there. Gentle safe hugs to you, jane

(((((((MTF))))))))
I am so sad for you. I know how much your decision to leave your T is hurting you. It is definitely not easy to leave someone we feel so much for. I wonder though if you are able to leave her because you *are* stronger and have grown even if it is difficult to see now. I absolutely agree that you did not fail in any way. You wouldn't have been there if you knew exactly what you were supposed to be doing in your therapy. That was your T's job. I really hope you can be extra gentle with yourself right now and take time and space to honor your grief. I'm so sorry, ((((MTF))))
seablue

Aw, MTF...((((((((MTF)))))) I am so sorry. You gave this 22 months of your life. That was really, really brave. You kept trying and trying. You are a fighter and so you didn't give up. If it is not working and you feel worse, not better- after almost two years because of the relationship and just knowing somehow, that *something* isn't working- you are just being wise. I'm going through it too, and I don't mean to compare our situations, but...your tried, and tried, MTF. You really did! She just was too busy to be able to take the time and reflection that it would have taken, to try to understand fully things, from *your* perspective. I think it more than anything else, a busyness thing. My T was extremely busy- T's that are really popular, and "extolled" in therapy-world- usually are, I suspect. too busy to really take the time to give you waht you need, to remember where you are at, and how much pain you are in- and to really make every effort to meet you there. My T...was a lot like yours. It hurt like hell. But- when you are brave and walk away from something that you know deep inside is hurting and not helping you- you are very, very brave, and you are taking good care of yourself. You gave it your all, MTF. She couldn't give you weekly sessions, and a bit of contact in between. Those are not unreasonable needs. Really, really they aren't. But for someone with a ridiculous clinet load and other responsibilites to boot- it may feel that way.

I know how much it hurts. Take your time to grieve and cry and sit with the pain. I hope your spouse will be supportive to you, and gentle with you as you go through this. He may not realize how much pain you are in MTF. Mine didn't. Once I was crying all the time (couldn't stop, often still can't) he is more understanding. He needs to understand that you are crying about psychological wounds that are deep and painful, not just crying about your T. Or course she has brought that wounding on, moreso, but...you can heal.

Today I opened up a bit to my H. I told him that I feel...like my T, whom I trusted...opened me up to do a surgery that was needed. When he got in there he realized that their was a bigger problem than he originally thought, and instead of dealing with it...he said "I don't have enough time for this, and I didn't sign on for it" so he just sewed me up as best he could and left me like that. Yeah, it's gonna take some time to get over this, for sure. I'm sure you will have many struggles. My SD, tells me to come here as much as I need to, MTF, he said it is just the way it is right now, and that it won't always be that way, but that I need the extra support right now, for as long as I need it. I hope you can know that...this advice applies for you too. You have been depressed for long time now...it will be hard now, to climb out. I know it. Me too.

Be kind to yourself. Just...do. I know it feels like you deserve to suffer because you haven't been taking care of other people the way you want to do so badly. Depression sucks because we are physically capable of doing what needs to be done, and that we often find it hard, even impossibly meaningless-is invisible to others. Think of someone who has an enormous load on their back...but the load is invisible to everyone else. You carry alone. So just, be kind to yourself, so that , you may slowly climb out. I am sorry that this has been such a painful road for you. My H and I have suffered too with my depression, but- there is hope. I do not think, on brink of divorce, three sessions will be enough, so I hope that you somehow, find way to get more than that for the two of you. And- someone just for you, is neccessary treatment for what you are dealing with.

MTF, I am hurting a lot from my T- but- it *is* good to have that anxiety gone from my life. Not to have to worry about getting as much as I can out of one puny little session that he deigned to fit into his busy schedule for me at great expense, that I *have* to make this little drop of water he would condescend to give me once in while-in the desert, dying of thirst- heal me somehow. One more burden, therapy should not be. It should be a place where the load is lifted for a little while from your shoulders, and where you do not have to "perform" or be good, to meet your T's standards. Hm, and my T said all of this to me- and yet, still he did have standards that I was expected to meet, somehow though- he said not. He said all the right things. But I got worse, because for whatever reason, he could not provide the boundaries and the consistency that I needed. Maybe that is why your T resonates so much with me.

Anywasy...please keep posting as you need to, let us support you during this painful transition, if it is helpful for you.

Hugs, MTF, I am so sorry, but I am also so proud of you for taking care of your self like this.

BB

((((((MTF)))))

Sorry if I gave you really bad advice. I thought I had been following your story and didn't think I saw any enmeshment on the part of your T ... so I'm sorry if I missed that. And of course, I am really sorry that you are hurting so much.



Liese

Thanks everyone. Yesterday was my birthday and it sucked big time. Last year at this same time I was sick with the stomach flu and also feeling suicidal because I had left my T with an important letter 2 days before and never heard from her about it. It was horrible, but it reminded me of just how much this relationship has been troublesome for a long time.

AG,

quote:

You have respected those boundaries. Your T, in the other hand, despite her obvious care for you, failed terribly at setting clear consistent boundaries for you. I think your analysis of her behavior above was very clear sighted.

I think I've really started to see the truth in that. For a long time I have tried to minimize the pain that my T's fuzzy boundaries have caused me. I tried to hide it from my T, and then when I have brought it up she never gives me an answer about it. In fact when I was ending with her the last time one of the first things she said to me was that I need to be in charge of my boundaries, that I know what's best for me. That came out of nowhere, so I think she knows that I struggle with her boundaries, but she expects me to be in charge of mine so that I'm not poorly affected by hers. Yeah, the T is the one that is supposed to hold those boundaries, for the sake of both therapist and client. Thanks for your words of support, AG.


Kashley,

quote:

You've done so much hard work, MTF, and I think that if your T was able to be as committed as you are then you certainly would have made progress. You are right, she's overworked and simply can't be committed enough having so many clients. I actually think it's borderline irresponsible for her to have so many clients because it makes it nearly impossible for her to be an effective therapist.

I totally agree with you. Thanks for pointing that out. It reinforces what I have been feeling myself, although probably more on an unconscious level because I didn't want to really face the truth. Thanks for your support.

Mad Hatter,

I'm sorry that you too know the pain these relationships cause. It's so hard, and I really don't think it should be so painful. Hope you can get to a better place. ((MH))


STRM,

Thanks for your support in this. I hope it's the right choice.


mlc,

Thanks for the well wishes. I need all the good wishes I can get for finding a new T that knows how to really help me. I'm pretty worried about how that's going to go. Thanks for your support.


Liese,

I was hoping all along that she could understand this pain and help me move through it, too. Even though she is a trauma T, she just doesn't understand what I need from her, or she thinks that what I need would be harmful for her to give me, or really--she's just stretched herself too thin.

I agree with you that both times I have 'ended' I have been angry. This time I feel like it is legitimate, and so was last time. And last time things didn't really get worked through. That is what frustrates me so much. I wrote her a letter that I gave her on my way out last time and she said she wanted to talk about it, but didn't actually address a lot of the stuff in it, or she 'tried', but focused on a different subject than the one I was talking about. She told me I am projecting and the reality is that she just doesn't want to accept her part or work through it. She has told me that I need to work on stuff in the moment, not months later. And she just doesn't have the mental ability (because she has such a huge caseload) to remember things that happened in the past. So all that I have tried to deal with with her from our past is just lost. Not to me, but she wants to always just 'start over' and move forward from there and forget about the past. But then she tells me that 'feelings buried alive never die' and we need to look at the feelings. Confusing to say the least.

quote:

I think it's hard to leave a T in the middle of all those unresolved feelings that you have for her. To me, it would feel more like a tearing. The unfortunate reality is that if you leave her, you may spend months with a new therapist trying to resolve your feelings for her when perhaps you could resolve them with her more quickly.

That's why I went back to her last time. I felt there was so much unresolved stuff that I had *hoped* we would work through, but no such luck. I am torn by knowing that there will end up being a lot of stuff unresolved, but it would take many sessions (that I now have to pay for myself) and commitment that I just don't think my T will go there with me. This last session she just switched off after a while and said that next session she expects me to come in with my journaled successes on chapter 8 of the schema book. That bugs me. She is trying to push me into a different place because where we're at makes her uncomfortable and she feels like it's fruitless to keep at it.

Thanks for encouraging me to work it out. I wish it were that 'easy'. I've tried so many times that I think it's beyond hope at this point.


Monte,

quote:

I don't think 'Kick Butt' is what is exactly needed for someone with an attachment injury. Gentleness and understanding is, and I know you'll be able to find someone who fits this bill once the dust settles a little.

I think you're right. I wish I could find a T like yours, or TN's, or AG's. Someone that really 'gets' the whole attachment pain and how to work with it so that the patient feels safe enough to actually trust the T and work through the stuff that needs to be faced. I have been getting more and more courageous to ask her stuff, to put things out there for her verbally, but I just feel hopeless about her ability to really help me. And her feeling helpless about my hopelessness doesn't give me a whole lot of hope about our relationship. Thanks for pointing out that I am taking care of little MTF. I'm tired of her being jerked around. She had enough of that in childhood. I appreciate your support, Monte.


Yaku,
Thanks for the hugs and prayers. They are truly appreciated.


Jane,
Thanks for your encouragement. I know you understand this on a personal level, so I appreciate your support and for telling me that good can come out of this and that it can get better, because I don't have a lot of hope about that right now. Thanks, Jane.


Seablue,

quote:

I wonder though if you are able to leave her because you *are* stronger and have grown even if it is difficult to see now. I absolutely agree that you did not fail in any way. You wouldn't have been there if you knew exactly what you were supposed to be doing in your therapy. That was your T's job.

Thanks, SB. I think I am stronger in that this time I feel like I can walk away knowing I tried to work through things with her. I know it's her job to guide the therapy, and it seems like she has been discontented in where I wanted to take things. She has wanted me to follow her lead and do it her way, and I tried that initially but this attachment is just my main focus, and I can't seem to shake it. Thanks for saying that I am not the one who failed here. I feel like it's my fault, so hearing that from others is helpful. Good to see you again.


Beebs,

quote:

MTF, I am hurting a lot from my T- but- it *is* good to have that anxiety gone from my life. Not to have to worry about getting as much as I can out of one puny little session that he deigned to fit into his busy schedule for me at great expense, that I *have* to make this little drop of water he would condescend to give me once in while-in the desert, dying of thirst- heal me somehow. One more burden, therapy should not be. It should be a place where the load is lifted for a little while from your shoulders, and where you do not have to "perform" or be good, to meet your T's standards. Hm, and my T said all of this to me- and yet, still he did have standards that I was expected to meet, somehow though- he said not. He said all the right things. But I got worse, because for whatever reason, he could not provide the boundaries and the consistency that I needed. Maybe that is why your T resonates so much with me.

Thank you. I know our Ts aren't the same person, but what you wrote above here really fits with what I feel is going on in my therapy. That one drop of water in the emotional desert of my life, one that I only get twice a month, and that I'm supposed to have heal me...yeah--that is just not sufficient. And with the inconsistent boundaries and the confusion that causes, I think I am just done. I can't keep playing the emotional/psychological games we have been playing in my therapy. I need to know with certainty where my T is, and where I am, and not be confused about the nature of the relationship. That has been hellish. Thanks Beebs, for your understanding and support.


Draggers,

quote:

I know who i am in the relationship, i know who my therapist is.just that my therapist, she is not my friend or my mother or someone who is ill defined.My therapy hour/s are finally about me, more than about us and my fear of trying to be someone i'm not or worrying about pleasing her or worrying about losing her......its just me and that is it and it feels liberating.

So glad you've been able to get here. That is SO what I need! My T might tell me that she's the T and I'm the client and there's no friendship, but then she turns around and says something about how her concern for my well-being isn't just from her position as my therapist, but as a friend. Hello? Doesn't that contradict what she said before? It is just too confusing. WAY too confusing. And I try to sort this out and get some response that is way off the mark and not even pertinent to what I'm talking about. I think she just can't go there because she is 'caught' in her mistakes with me.

I know Faith was really bad with boundaries. The more I look at my own T relationship I see a similar issue. Too much has been said, offered, given, etc., that has confused the crap out of me as to who my T really is in my life. And she insists she's the T, but she really walks the line and sometimes crosses it into my space a little more than a T should, IMO.

Thanks for sharing your experience and pointing these things out to me. It helps reinforce the hope that I am doing the right thing here when I can read that you have had a positive outcome by leaving a harmful T relationship. ((Draggers))


Thanks again, everyone. I'm really struggling with this, and keep going back and forth about what is the right choice. The emotional tug is so forceful it feels overwhelming. My T will not be happy about this, but then maybe she will. I won't talk to her until Monday or later. I left her a voicemail saying I needed to clear something up, that something being her accusation that I expect outside of session check-in calls. I was just going to remind her that she initiated it and that it bothers me a lot that she has pinned that one on me. But I don't know if I should end it over the phone or actually go in to my session with her on the 21st and do it that way. Last time her tears at the exit door were enough for me to reconsider what I was doing. I want to have closure on this, but don't know that I can actually find any that will be satisfactory. I just don't know anymore...


MTF

quote:

Yesterday was my birthday and it sucked big time. Last year at this same time I was sick with the stomach flu and also feeling suicidal because I had left my T with an important letter 2 days before and never heard from her about it. It was horrible, but it reminded me of just how much this relationship has been troublesome for a long time.

Oh....((((MTF))))
I remember how sad you were last year on your birthday and I'm sorry this year was also a bummer. Though I know it will take some time to work through the pain, I hope after you say what you need to to T, you will at least feel a bit lighter than you do now. I wish I could ease your pain somehow.

Happy Birthday

Big hugs!!
seablue

((((MTF))))

Despite the pain you are in, you sound very clearheaded to me. It certainly doesn't sound like you are making a rash decision. Thanks for being so understanding of where I was coming from. I thought I was following your story pretty closely but may have missed some earlier stuff from before I became a member.

Anyway, the T I left before I started with the one I am with now also cried when I told her I was leaving and she said, "I know I am a better than average therapist." I felt so bad for hurting her feelings and then wound up staying with her for longer than I wanted to, just to take care of her. I even had come across a card that said, "better than average" something ... I forget what so I crossed out whatever that was and wrote in therapist and gave it to her. She loved it.

With her as well, there was confusion because she often acted like a girlfriend, sometimes seeking my advice. (Not sure now if she was just trying to see if I had any insight into my problems or if she really was seeking my advice.) But at the time, I often thought she wanted to be my friend and I thought she was lonely and I wanted to invite her over for holidays. Not sure if I was reading the situation correctly now or if it was all coming from me and my emotional needs. But it just screwed me up so badly and I needed someone with tight boundaries. That helped me a lot. I still have had some massive transference but it's much easier to see when the boundaries are tight.

I managed to get over her pretty well and pretty quickly with the help of the new T. Now that I think about it, it wasn't as traumatizing as I thought it would be. Actually I found him and "hired" him before I "fired" her. On the day that I fired her, I had actually seen him as well. That really helped a lot. For me, anyway.

For a while, I wanted to blame someone, me or her, for the failure of the relationship. She had said to me when I left that it wasn't her and it wasn't me, she just wasn't the right therapist for me. I REALLY wanted her to take some responsibility for what I felt she had done to me. In retrospect, I just think her biggest failing was that she didn't want to go at my pace, she was pushing me harder than I could go and I started to have panic attacks for the first time in my life. I would often go home and drink after my sessions. I'm not sure now about what I felt were her boundary violations then. Not sure if it was my transference or if she just had crappy boundaries. I think she just had crappy boundaries.

New T reassured me that I should feel good after our sessions and if I didn't that I needed to call him. That was nice to hear, to have some benchmark of how I should be feeling. I was just tolerating all the pain because I thought that's what therapy was supposed to be like. Well, yes, we all know it can be painful, just not THAT painful. I shouldn't be going home and drinking.

So, I have started over with success and so have others on the forum as well. There is no reason you can't either. Lots and lots of luck to you. Will be thinking of you and supporting you regardless of the decision you make.



Liese

MTF, I just wanted you to know I was thinking about you. <3

MTF...you have faced things with a lot of courage in making this decision which I believe is correct. I don't have much to add to what the others have said so well. I know how hard it is and how scary it will be to now move forward.

I may come back and add some things later. I need to think a bit and don't have a lot of time right now.

I wanted you to know that I support you and am thinking of you.

Hugs
TN

((((MTF))))

((((MTF))))

Forgot to wish you a belated happy birthday. Sorry it was miserable. Hope you can find some joy somewhere.

Liese

Thanks everyone. I am exhausted from all of the worry I am feeling and the emotional stress and pain of where I am at right now. Sorry I can't reply to everyone seperately right now. It's after midnight and I need to get to bed. I hope I can sleep.

I am really not sure right now of how to go about this ending with my T. I recently found a document online that she had mailed in to the FCC. They posted it online and it has her handwritten name, address and email address on it. I'm SO tempted to email her what I need to say to her, meaning all of the things that have caused me to feel like I need to end with her, rather than telling her on the phone Monday morning. She offered two sessions ago to let me email her, but I declined, so I don't know what she'll think if I email her. I would tell her where I got her email address so she knows it's public info. I just know I'll freeze up on the phone and not be able to verbalize what I need her to know (you all know I'm long winded) and then I'll have a lot of regret about not expressing to her the reasons I'm leaving. She'll call me Monday in response to the voicemail I left her saying I needed to clarify or clear something up (don't remember which I said), but maybe I will tell her I sent her an email and need her to read it and then call me back if she wants to talk about it. Or email me her response. I don't know. I do feel like seeing her in person would be too hard for me. I would want a hug (which I am sure SHE would initiate) and I am thinking she may tear up on me again, which would crush me like it did last time. This is SO HARD. I wish I *knew* what to do...

MTF

MTF,

Happy belated birthday!! I didn't realize it was your birthday when I replied before. I'm sorry it was a rough one.

I suppose you could email her (that may or may not be a current email though) or perhaps when she calls Monday you could ask for her email? I know that in situations with my T (like the recent one) I often feel that I won't be able to explain myself clearly in person because I get too flustered and too upset. So, it does help to really lay things all out in writing so that I'm sure I got all of my points across.

I hope that whatever you decide to do that you can find some peace and closure with your decision.

Happy belated birthday MTF! What a tough situation. I don't really have any input. Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hoping you got some good rest last night. ~ jane

Happy Birthday MTF,
....and a hug too.

starfishy

Thanks STRM, Jane, and Starfish.

My T called me this morning. I told her I was really frustrated and discouraged because I feel like she is feeling that way, too. I told her that I was upset that she had said I expected her to contact me on my off weeks and that it was her idea and she initiated it. She told me that last year (and I didn't mention anything about this) when we had that super connection that AG called "UBER limbic resonance" that I had expressed to her that it was difficult to go the two weeks between sessions. I don't remember saying that, but it makes sense as to where her offer came from, and makes sense as to why she started calling me on my off weeks during that time when she had a cancellation. She apologized for pinning it on me, and also she said she was sorry that at the time she offered it she hadn't thought about whether or not she would be able to sustain that. She said some weeks are really crazy busy, and she just can't commit to calling me consistently, and that she's sorry she set me up to be disappointed in her.

I told her I'm really confused about our relationship. I said I needed her to lay the boundaries out for me because things she has said, done and offered have made me wonder what's going on. I told her about two sessions ago when she said that she was worried about me and wanted to see me get the help I need, and that she told me she wasn't just saying that as my therapist and because it was her job, but that she was saying it as a friend. I told her that was really confusing for me. She then told me that I'm not just a patient that she checks up on, that she feels a connection with me and that she cares A LOT about me. I sometimes wonder that if she felt she could say she loves me, she would.

She has told me our relationship can't be personal because that's unethical. Yet I know she cares for me as more than just a patient.

She said she hasn't had a patient for a REALLY long time that she wasn't able to help move forward and she is concerned about all the resistance she feels from me. I guess I've really got her stumped. I told her I feel the resistance too, and I don't know why. I don't know if I'm too scared to have to face the reality of what my parents did/didn't do and hold them accountable, feel the anger and grief over it, or what. I have always been the 'good girl', never causing problems in the family and always trying to make everyone comfortable and happy. She knows where the attachment wounds stem from and she's wanting me to really see it from the direction it needs to been seen from, and to not be so focused on our relationship and what I (the little me) want from her that she can't give me because of the boundaries of therapy. I know I need to go with her down this path she's trying to lead me down, I just keep digging in my heels for some reason.

She wants me to really start asking people for what I need. She wants me to share what I expect from people and find out what's reasonable and what's not. She wants me to work on filling the 'emotional cups' of my kids and husband and negotiating with them for the things that I need so that we can all get our emotional needs met, because none of us are as it stands right now.

She wants me to pray about this relationship/alliance. She said she will do the same, and that we both need to think about maybe some things that will help me feel safer and will help me be able to move forward. She said I'll be in her thoughts and prayers. That meant a lot to me. I feel so much care from this woman, and sometimes I feel like that care within the relationship can have so much potential for healing. She has been better with emotional boundaries since the end of February when I was first thinking of ending with her and expressed my concerns about things she has said, done, offered, etc. I think a lot of our issues are caused by my lack of openness and my unwillingness to disclose the things I need to in order for her to clearly see where I am at and where I am struggling. She keeps encouraging me to be totally open with her, and I am getting a lot better (well, for me anyway) at being able to express things to her verbally and to really tell her what's not working for me. That is progress for me because I used to just keep it all inside and not talk about it, and then dump it all out in a letter that was 5 typed pages long and full of WAY too much for anyone to make sense of. My feelings change and fluctuate so much that even I am confused by my self.

Anyway, a T I called last week and left a message with called me back this morning. She is about the same age as my T, has been practicing a little longer than my T, and knows my T personally. We talked a little bit about my situation but she was out of town and on her cell phone where she didn't have good coverage, so we lost connection several times before she finally called back and said she'd be home tonight and would call me back later and talk about it some more.

I just wish I could find some clarity in all of this. I feel so much better about my T having had the conversation we did this morning. She spent half an hour talking it out, and I know she could have used that time for other things that are important so I appreciate that she gave me that time.

I know most of you (if not all of you) think I should end with my T, and I unfortunately am still wavering on that one. I've invested a lot--emotionally and time-wise--and feel like if I can just trust that my T is there and cares for me, instead of being so wobbly about that, I can settle into the relationship enough to start doing the work. I'm not feeling so confused anymore. I know it's not usually good for the T to have an emotional investment in the client, but I feel like that investment on my T's part has been a big reason for her not giving up on me, even though I have been a *super* frustrating client for her. I don't know how long that comfort will last, though.

Thanks for your support everyone. I appreciate it.

MTF

((((MTF))))

I am just glad that you had a really good conversation with her. I haven't seen anything from your T that really concerns me except the stuff she discloses about her feelings for you. As, TN's T has said, there is no way that a T could see someone longterm and not have feelings for them. It's possible that she's trying to hold those boundaries firm yet still let you know that she cares. That's a really thin line to walk, IMO. It's got to be hard as a therapist to get that part right all the time.

It can't hurt to continue the conversation with the other therapist tonight. Whenever I've consulted with anyone, it really gave me a sense of empowerment, realizing that I could leave if I wanted to. And, it also gave me some clarity and pulled me out of those deep, dark feelings. I hope you find the same.

At least the two of you have started talking and that's the most important thing.

HUGS,

Liese

Liese,

quote:

It's possible that she's trying to hold those boundaries firm yet still let you know that she cares. That's a really thin line to walk, IMO. It's got to be hard as a therapist to get that part right all the time.

I agree. She has been more consistent with how things go in sessions. She's cut the chit chat and really just jumps in now to what's going on with me, us, my family, etc. She hasn't said, offered or done anything for a while now that has made me really worried about her boundaries and she hasn't actually crossed MY boundaries. I asked her about her boundaries today, and that's the reason she told me what she did. And of course I feel like she's being open and honest with me and not lying about how she feels. At least I don't have to worry about that. I think I really needed to be clear about where I am at with her, so that I'm not always worrying about it. Now I just have to figure out if I can be okay with her feelings, or if they will be in the way for me. From this experience I am getting clearer on boundaries, which have always been almost non-existant for me. I'm understanding the importance of having my own boundaries, respecting those of others, and being aware of good/bad boundaries in others that might create an attachment to them. It's been really quite the trip.

Thanks for your opinion about this. I am looking forward to talking more with the other T tonight. I think it will be insightful and hopefully help me be more firm in my decision, either way.

MTF

quote:

I feel like she has been caught in between what she feels for me and what she knows she is ethically bound to do/be for me. I have come to see that she is really very much a workaholic and pushes herself too hard. So hard that she can't really be effective for the patients like me that need her so much. She is not committed enough, and in reality can't be because she is stretching herself too thin with too many patients, she's getting older, doesn't really understand attachment injury and how she needs to work with a patient with that specific core issue. Instead she thinks that schema therapy will fix me, all the while expecting that I will 'drop' the attachment focus and just trust her with the schema stuff. I don't see how I can when I don't have a safe and secure relationship with my therapist. When I'm so worried about the relationship and she doesn't help me NOT be worried about it because she doesn't address my issues or help me look at them and talk about them, or put them in perspective based on my history, or help me understand where they come from, it's hard to do any real work. I'm too lost in worrying about why things aren't working. I feel like SHE personalizes everything I say and doesn't look at what she really *IS* doing wrong, she just feels like my attachment is harming me. Yeah, when the T takes it all personally instead of helping you look at where the real issues are coming from, it ruins the relationship. I no longer feel like I can talk to her about my feelings without hurting her, or causing her worry and anxiety about how she's harming me.

Hi MTF... I'm glad you were able to have a good talk with your T. What I quoted above from your original post is what troubles me. You analyzed yourself what is missing and troubling in the relationship. I think you need to ask yourself if any of that has changed? Has she addressed your need for weekly sessions? Have you discussed your inability to do schema therapy without having the attachment in place? Has she addressed her fear of harming you and wanting to be your friend?

I think a dangerous sign for anyone to be aware of in their T is fear. If the T shows noticeable fear then it's near to impossible for you to trust them and for you to feel safe. If you are BOTH scared, then who is in charge of the therapy. I'm not saying a T never GETS scared but they should keep in under control and not introduce their fears into your therapy.

I wish you much luck tonight with seeing the consult/new T. I hope it helps you in some way. I'll be thinking of you.

TN

((((((((( MTF )))))))))

I’m sorry I haven’t posted before now, I’ve been pretty undecided about what to say. Firstly want to say though that I’m glad that the phone conversation with T went so well and that you’re feeling a whole lot better, and even positive about continuing with her.

Because I was really ambivalent about how to reply on your thread before, I went back and read all your posts about how things have gone in your therapy. It was interesting reading! (Have you ever gone back over your old posts? It’s probably well worth doing just to give you an overview of the progression of your therapy.)

Anyway a lot of things started to make some sense once I’d read the progress of your therapy since you first started posting, so I hope you don’t mind if I post some of my ideas. Not sure if any of it is going to be helpful or even welcome, so please bear in mind this is entirely my personally biased interpretation and not intended as any kind of factual or even objective appraisal of your situation. Also, what I'm saying probably doesn't apply so much now that you've re-established a more positive connection to your T, but I did want to comment on your previous posts in this thread, so am going to send this anyway.

So, first thing I noticed on reading your past threads was a distinct pattern emerging with your T, which is that you would often feel ok or even positive immediately after a session and then very quickly the same doubts and fears and suspicions would set in and by the time it came to the subsequent session it was as if you were right back to minus square one each time. And that each time T did manage to allay some of your fears and convince you that your attachment to her was ok, that positive certainty disappeared almost immediately. I know you often refer to being OC about the attachment feelings, but the way I read it, is that there is something fundamental that you’re trying to convey to T that she just isn’t getting, which is why it all seems so repetitive and you find yourself in exactly the same position each time.

I relate that to something I do all the time, I find myself repeating something (in endless variations) to other people, specifically Ts but also in real world, and when I recognize I’m repeating something (be it a complaint, a story, or even something positive) I realize that whatever it is I’m trying to convey hasn’t been heard, hasn’t been understood, hasn’t been responded to in the way I’m (usually subconsciously) expecting or hoping or wanting it to be. The response I’m wanting is usually a recognition on the part of the other person about what the thing I’m telling them means to me, ie that I’m trying to get them to see/understand/feel what I’m feeling, what it all means to me emotionally. So sometimes I’m actually able to articulate that, when I recognize exactly what the response is that I want, but often it’s just one of those things that if the other doesn’t get it, doesn’t pick up on the thing I’m desperately wanting them to understand, then they’re never going to get it even if I manage to SHOW what I mean (expressing the feelings that go with the story, complaint whatever…)

I don’t believe there are red flags in your therapy, even with the existence of apparently fuzzy boundaries. I think that what’s bothering you is that she’s just not getting something that is absolutely fundamental to you that she understand, and maybe because you’re not clear yourself on what that is, you’re looking at all these different things (the apparent red flags) trying to pin down exactly what it is that seems to be such an ongoing problem.

In the case of your T what I’m picking up is that she doesn’t work with attachment feelings directly. That even if you said, ‘listen T what I want from you is to recognize just how much I need you to encourage and bring out and accept all my feelings about and towards you, specifically YOU, and help me work through them all WITH YOU, ie within the relationship, so that I can feel safe and accepted enough to be able to show you all my needy scary loving angry feelings about you, and have you help me deal with them’, I suspect she still wouldn’t really understand what it is you need. Obviously I’m putting words in your mouth here, but this is what I’m guessing is what you’ve been needing from your T (and have actually been saying in your posts quite clearly). It doesn’t mean she’ll be meeting all those needs, what it means (and this is just my understanding based on what I need) is that the person about whom you feel these things (T) even while not being able to meet the needs, is nevertheless going to let you experience the whole range of having the needs, showing them, not getting them met, dealing with not getting them met – for me the prime healing thing here is being able to be angry at the other for not meeting those needs, and not only not having the other retaliate (whether by threatening to terminate ‘in your own best interests’, or by trying to redirect those needs to other relationships etc…) but lovingly ACCEPT that anger, and the grief and the fear and anything else that comes up. I really believe that it’s only in the open experiencing of those feelings and needs in relation to a safe and totally accepting other that we make the true and healing connections to the past that underpin having those needs in the first place…

What I hear from your T is that while she cares deeply for you and really really wants to help you, her focus is on getting you to transfer those attachment feelings and needs onto relationships in real world, I don’t think she recognizes how vital it is that before you can go seek getting those needs met in real world, they all need first to be brought to and looked at in safety within the T relationship. In psychoanalytic therapy this is what’s called working with the transference, it’s the key focus in that sort of therapy – and though I’m using the word transference, that doesn’t mean that the feelings and the needs and the attachment itself isn’t real and true in relation to the therapist themselves. It’s just that that sort of therapy focuses very much on the here and now relationship between therapist and client, which is what your T is just not doing. She’s acknowledging how important it is to you, but she’s not addressing it directly as the focus of therapy itself. I don’t think it would matter how committed you are to doing the schema work or going along with what your T is trying to help you with, behavioural changes and challenging core beliefs and the like, if you have to do that by ignoring or setting aside the attachment issues, then the same problems are going to keep recurring.

So ok that’s the negative stuff. There IS a positive side too. I also picked up in reading your previous posts, that your T quite often was giving you openings to bring out in the open what you felt about her. Several times she point blank asked you direct questions about what you were feeling in relation to her, and I got the impression that once she understood how strong your attachment was, she made a point of checking with you how you were feeling, whether there was anything that had bothered you or needed looking at. And she made it clear too that the two of you needed to deal with what was happening in the here and now. I think your own defensiveness and fears kicked in here, because you often berated yourself for not being able to answer those questions. It’s self evident I suppose that she would have to take at face value how you responded, because short of bullying you into ‘admitting’ otherwise, she can only go on the information you give her.

It does bother me though that she constantly jumps into the position of worrying that she is harming you and keeps suggesting you see another T, when it’s pretty clear that what’s ‘harming’ you is that she’s just not hearing what you need. By thinking that she is harming you and suggesting you go elsewhere, that itself seems to indicate that she hasn’t understood the extent and depth of your feelings. But equally, I don’t think you have been able so far to express that depth to her, so I can understand why it must seem to her like she’s not really helping you.

I’m sorry this is getting really wordy and not very systematic (as I’d planned ) so I’ll stop trying to interpret your own posts back to you and get on with the point of my post. Which is to say that I think you have a long history now with this T and have reached a point where she really does care about you and wants very much to help you, and you believe that – so I think it’s well worth your while to take your heart in your hands and really lay out for her what it is you are needing from her. From my understanding of your T, she seems flexible enough that if she did get to hear clearly what you are wanting and needing from her, in therapeutic terms, she would adapt her approach for you. This might mean trying to ‘educate’ her on attachment, or finding a way of getting her to understand that focusing on your relationship with her is the prime need, it just seems to me that if you don’t get this clear with her, things are not going to improve no matter how many times you start over.

And of course, I could be talking out of a hole in my head here. You’re the only one who knows what’s going on in your therapy, so please accept my apologies for talking like a know-it-all. Also sorry because the way I've written this post, it sounds like I haven't heard anything you've said in your last couple of posts and am discounting your own understanding of your situation. That's not my intention, I set out to describe the patterns I was seeing overall in your therapy, and don't mean to dismiss your own current insights.

I really hope that things do work out for you with T, you've worked really hard and put a lot of effort and time (and pain and tears) into this relationship, you deserve to get some benefit back from it.

LL

TN,

quote:

Has she addressed her fear of harming you and wanting to be your friend?

I don't really understand what you're asking here. She has mentioned that she worries she is harming me. What do you feel she needs to do to address this? Are you talking about addressing it with me, herself, a supervisor? And what about the friend part?

I don't feel like she is harming me. I think she sees my obsessing about this relationship and sees THAT as what is harmful, because I am not really living life. I'm stuck in my head worrying about the relationship, and where I am, and where she is, etc.

Sometimes I regret having come to the forum in the first place. Reading about everyone's different T relationships and their T's different ways of doing things, theoretical orientation, what different people think is the 'right' way to do therapy, etc., clouds my judgment even more. It's like I have this 'mold' I think my T should be fitting into, but it's like what a psychologist neighbor I talked to yesterday said to me: there is no standard of care in the psychotherapy profession. And while I would love it if my T would be like yours, or AG's, or Monte's, the fact is, she is NOT THEM. So I can realize this, acknowledge her shortcomings, accept them, and then decide what I need to do. It's going to take some real thought, and time, too. I can't make a split second decision, which is what I seem to want to do, and I swing back and forth between seeing my T as 'evil', and then seeing her as 'good'. I feel like I have some borderline tendencies, with that and the object constancy stuff.

Thanks for wishing me well. The other T is just supposed to be calling me back tonight, but I likely won't hear from her until maybe tomorrow morning.


LL,

WOW! You really took the time to go back over my old posts??? I'm touched. Thank you. You know, your insight here is really amazing. I think you hit the nail on the head!

quote:

I know you often refer to being OC about the attachment feelings, but the way I read it, is that there is something fundamental that you’re trying to convey to T that she just isn’t getting, which is why it all seems so repetitive and you find yourself in exactly the same position each time.

This is amazing. You know, as I read this it makes sense to me. I am obsessive in that I ruminate constantly about the relationship, but I think you are correct in that there is something I have been unable to really communicate to my T and be heard about.

quote:

I don’t believe there are red flags in your therapy, even with the existence of apparently fuzzy boundaries. I think that what’s bothering you is that she’s just not getting something that is absolutely fundamental to you that she understand, and maybe because you’re not clear yourself on what that is, you’re looking at all these different things (the apparent red flags) trying to pin down exactly what it is that seems to be such an ongoing problem.

THIS resonates with me SO MUCH. Thank you for pointing this out.

quote:

In the case of your T what I’m picking up is that she doesn’t work with attachment feelings directly. That even if you said, ‘listen T what I want from you is to recognize just how much I need you to encourage and bring out and accept all my feelings about and towards you, specifically YOU, and help me work through them all WITH YOU, ie within the relationship, so that I can feel safe and accepted enough to be able to show you all my needy scary loving angry feelings about you, and have you help me deal with them’, I suspect she still wouldn’t really understand what it is you need.

I think you're right here. I have felt a sort of resistance about directly discussing my feelings about her. Probably from early reactions from her, saying stuff about how you could talk about transference for years and not really get anywhere.

quote:

It doesn’t mean she’ll be meeting all those needs, what it means (and this is just my understanding based on what I need) is that the person about whom you feel these things (T) even while not being able to meet the needs, is nevertheless going to let you experience the whole range of having the needs, showing them, not getting them met, dealing with not getting them met – for me the prime healing thing here is being able to be angry at the other for not meeting those needs, and not only not having the other retaliate (whether by threatening to terminate ‘in your own best interests’, or by trying to redirect those needs to other relationships etc…) but lovingly ACCEPT that anger, and the grief and the fear and anything else that comes up. I really believe that it’s only in the open experiencing of those feelings and needs in relation to a safe and totally accepting other that we make the true and healing connections to the past that underpin having those needs in the first place…

YES!! I agree with you totally here. This is what I need from her, and have not yet received. This is what I feel so envious about when I read about others' Ts on here is that their T actually welcomes any and all feelings, looks at them, gets to the root cause of those feelings, and explores them together with the client. I don't know if it's just because I haven't been able to actually go there with my T yet or what. I remember when she did directly ask me about my feelings, and what fantasies I had about our relationship, etc., and I just couldn't go there. That was when I told her she was unlike anyone else I know and she handed me the 'dime-a-dozen' comment about herself that really hurt. I think she has some issues herself with accepting people's high regard for her. She is humble, but sometimes I think that humility gets in the way, for me at least.

quote:

while she cares deeply for you and really really wants to help you, her focus is on getting you to transfer those attachment feelings and needs onto relationships in real world, I don’t think she recognizes how vital it is that before you can go seek getting those needs met in real world, they all need first to be brought to and looked at in safety within the T relationship.

Yes, this is what I've been feeling myself. Thanks for articulating it for me.

quote:

she made it clear too that the two of you needed to deal with what was happening in the here and now. I think your own defensiveness and fears kicked in here, because you often berated yourself for not being able to answer those questions. It’s self evident I suppose that she would have to take at face value how you responded, because short of bullying you into ‘admitting’ otherwise, she can only go on the information you give her.

This really has been a huge stumbling block for me. When I sit there in sessions my brain just freezes. I sit on that couch and feel like a little 5-6 year old. I just am stuck at that point in my development emotionally, I think. I can't say what I need to say, and yeah, I have had her say many times that she needs me to talk and be real with her in the moment, that she can't read my mind. Sometimes I really wish she could. I agree that the fears and defenses jump up immediately whenever she wants to talk about our relationship. I think after what happened with my PT neighbor, I am terrified of screwing up again with her. And she means WAY more to me than he did, so I feel there's more to risk and more to lose, and it's terrifying.

quote:

By thinking that she is harming you and suggesting you go elsewhere, that itself seems to indicate that she hasn’t understood the extent and depth of your feelings. But equally, I don’t think you have been able so far to express that depth to her, so I can understand why it must seem to her like she’s not really helping you.

This is a really good point, LL. I think I am going to print out your post here and take it with me and read it to my T, because there is so much you are seeing here that makes so much sense to me, and maybe if I could use your words to put it out there to her we can look at it together and see what can and can't be done about all of this. I can get a better feel for where my T is really at with my attachment, and know better whether she will be able to help me, based on her responses and reactions to all of these great insights and points you have made.

quote:

I think you have a long history now with this T and have reached a point where she really does care about you and wants very much to help you, and you believe that – so I think it’s well worth your while to take your heart in your hands and really lay out for her what it is you are needing from her. From my understanding of your T, she seems flexible enough that if she did get to hear clearly what you are wanting and needing from her, in therapeutic terms, she would adapt her approach for you. This might mean trying to ‘educate’ her on attachment, or finding a way of getting her to understand that focusing on your relationship with her is the prime need, it just seems to me that if you don’t get this clear with her, things are not going to improve no matter how many times you start over.

Thank you SO much, LL.

I really appreciate the time you took to look through my stuff and give me your perspective here. It is a fresh look at it, and I needed that, A LOT.


MTF

quote:

Originally posted by More Than Fine:
TN,

quote:

Has she addressed her fear of harming you and wanting to be your friend?

I don't really understand what you're asking here. She has mentioned that she worries she is harming me. What do you feel she needs to do to address this? Are you talking about addressing it with me, herself, a supervisor? And what about the friend part?

I don't feel like she is harming me. I think she sees my obsessing about this relationship and sees THAT as what is harmful, because I am not really living life. I'm stuck in my head worrying about the relationship, and where I am, and where she is, etc.

Sometimes I regret having come to the forum in the first place. Reading about everyone's different T relationships and their T's different ways of doing things, theoretical orientation, what different people think is the 'right' way to do therapy, etc., clouds my judgment even more. It's like I have this 'mold' I think my T should be fitting into, but it's like what a psychologist neighbor I talked to yesterday said to me: there is no standard of care in the psychotherapy profession. And while I would love it if my T would be like yours, or AG's, or Monte's, the fact is, she is NOT THEM. So I can realize this, acknowledge her shortcomings, accept them, and then decide what I need to do. It's going to take some real thought, and time, too. I can't make a split second decision, which is what I seem to want to do, and I swing back and forth between seeing my T as 'evil', and then seeing her as 'good'. I feel like I have some borderline tendencies, with that and the object constancy stuff.

Hey MTF, I think (of course, correct me if I'm wrong) part of what TN is getting at is that even though your T very obviously cares about you and wants very much to help you, do you feel like you've walked into any new territory with this last session? Have any new questions been answered? If not, it makes me wonder if you will end up stuck in the same cycle and that, right now, you're possibly at the beginning of another go-around.

Also, I agree that it can definitely cloud judgment about Ts if we try and get them to fit into a mold. I think the simplest question we can ask ourselves is, do I feel like my T is helping me? Do I feel like I've made any progress? If the answer is yes (even if it doesn't feel like progress has been made, but so long as you feel like seeing your T is beneficial to you) then you don't have to worry about a mold. If the answer is yes, it doesn't matter what kind of therapy you're doing, how old or young your T is, how many clients she has, none of it matters so long as you feel like you're being helped (I know that's a little broad, but the basis of it is true I think). I know that's sometimes easier said than done. But an inherent flaw to this forum is that we aren't in the therapy room with anyone else here, so we don't know *exactly* what's going on. There are many, many dynamics that just can't be fully explained in words.

You're probably aware of all of this so I hope I haven't offended you. You know you and your T best so I trust your judgment regarding whatever decision you decide to make. ((((MTF))))

MTF, I'm sorry if I upset you in any way. I tend to be very blunt at times. I think Kashley makes some very good points and what I was trying to get to in my clumsy way. I am just worried that the real issues that upset you over and over have not been addressed. I was basically quoting some things you have referred to in your previous posts. I don't know how to do that quote thing but I'll copy some of what I was referring to here:

"She said she feels worried that she is harming me more than helping. I knew this was going to come up again. "

"I told her I don't remember saying that and that I bring that stuff up because it's important to me to discuss it, but that I feel like she doesn't want to. I told her I feel like that's because she is uncomfortable with my stuff. She said she is uncomfortable because I am uncomfortable. She said when she has tried to talk about stuff in the letters that it is painfully difficult for me. She's right. It is. I asked her how my discomfort could make her uncomfortable. She said because she feels helpless about my hopelessness. "

"I feel like my T really cares about me, but that she is stuck because I am stuck at rock bottom. She wants to go back to schema therapy with me in an attempt to focus on other things beside the attachment and the pain it is causing me (us). I can see value in what she wants me to work on, but don't know if I can actually pull myself away from the worries and concerns I have about my relationship with my T. There's so much that is unresolved. And now I feel like if I bring anything up with her, she's going to be defensive. She told me she wants me to keep letting her know when things aren't okay between us, and I know I should give her the benefit of the doubt that she is being honest in telling me that, but it's almost scary. I don't want her to feel like she really is helpless to help me but I feel like she's kind of already there. And if I point out more ways that she has disappointed me it's just going to send her into further withdrawal from me."

I know how hard and scary therapy is. But if I felt that my T was just as scared as I was, or was feeling just as hopeless and I was, well I think I would have a really hard time developing trust and feeling safe to talk about anything that was on my mind. I am not saying you need to find a T like mine or a T like AG's T and who use that modality and approach to attachment injury, but I am very concerned for you because your T seems fearful she is harming you and you are now feeling like you cannot talk to her about what you need to.

Perhaps she does need supervision in this situation. Perhaps another T with this experience can help her to get past her feeling that she is harming you in some way.

I just would hate to see you cycle through the same things again and start to think it's all your fault when it clearly is not all your fault.

I truly wish you the best MTF and if you decide to stay with her then I will do my best to support that and be there for you. We all have to do what works best for us. You are the final judge of that for yourself.

Hugs
TN

quote:

Sometimes I regret having come to the forum in the first place. Reading about everyone's different T relationships and their T's different ways of doing things, theoretical orientation, what different people think is the 'right' way to do therapy, etc., clouds my judgment even more. It's like I have this 'mold' I think my T should be fitting into, but it's like what a psychologist neighbor I talked to yesterday said to me: there is no standard of care in the psychotherapy profession. And while I would love it if my T would be like yours, or AG's, or Monte's, the fact is, she is NOT THEM. So I can realize this, acknowledge her shortcomings, accept them, and then decide what I need to do

MTF,
Please correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you think your T is being criticized because she is not the same as my T (or TNs or monte's). I have not meant to give you the impression that I think the only way to heal is how I did (especially since I'm very much a work in progress) nor do I think every T should practice just the way my T does. It would be impossible anyway as I believe a T has to practice as their authentic self, albeit boundaried, to be effective. I am sorry if you have felt this way.

At the same time, my T having really clear boundaries felt very essential to my healing so I have a definite bias in that direction. And when I comment it is difficult not to speak out of my own experience. It has honestly been my intention to help and support you, but it is my sense after reading your post that my input is harming and confusing you rather than helping. As I have said before, I will respect and support any decision you make and you sincerely have my best wishes for your healing, but I am going to refrain from any further comment about your T, her actions and your relationship with her in order to not muddy the water any further. I wanted to clarify that so that my lack of response would not be seen as my not caring about you or punishing you for any decision you make. I hope you can find clarity and confidence in your way forward.

AG

Kashley, TN and AG,

I'm not upset with any of you. I'm only upset with the situation I now find myself in. I'm confused, in pain, wishing someone could just tell me what to do, but at the same time feeling like I wouldn't be able to do what they suggest (leave my T). I'm torn about what to do and it's really hard to feel like my T may not be good for me. It's a real inner struggle I'm having right now because the attachment is so strong. I wish I could still have MY T, but that she could be more like either/both of yours. But she's not, and I don't know that I could find a T like them anyway. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I am upset or angry or hurt by either of your comments to me. I'm not. I'm just upset about where I am at. I hope you understand that. Thanks for weighing in on this. All the input I can get is appreciated.

MTF

MTF,
I'm sorry, I really wasn't so much upset as recognizing that the criticism you were hearing about your T was actually making things worse. I can't begin to imagine just how hard this is. I know how strong the attachment can run, and if things had turned out differently with my T, I don't know if I would have had the strength to walk away even if I was CERTAIN that it wasn't good. And you're not even close to certain that's the case. I also didn't mean to add to your burden. Please don't worry about anything as far as I am concerned.

AG

MTF,

It sounds like you are in a really difficult place...torn between staying in a situation that you know on some level may not be good for you...or walking away and dealing with the pain of letting go. Either choice is going to result in some level of pain. I can relate on some levels given choices I've had to make in the past few weeks regarding my Ts. I just want to say that no matter what you choose to do, I support whatever you decide. I know it won't be easy.

((((MTF)))))

Thanks AG and LG.

I'm feeling better today. The other T called me last night and we talked about what's going on with my therapy. She feels that I need to work it out with my T and give it my best effort (i.e. forcing myself to talk, be totally open, honest, and ask questions instead of taking what my T says as being the final word on things. I have been getting better with asking my T direct questions about what she means, why she said something, and confronting her about stuff that bothers me or makes me unsure.

I also went to my parents' house last night and told them that withdrawing their support with this T had me upset. I told them she and I had talked, that I had talked to two other Ts about this, and that one wanted me to see students and the university where he teaches which my parents said wasn't a good idea (duh!) and that the other woman T said I should work it out. Turns out my dad thought that my T was trying to keep me there even without seeing much progress. Once I told him that she had offered several times to refer me or transfer me elsewhere and I had refused, he felt better about my T. I told them that a lot of what is going on is my own fault, because I feel so much resistance (because I'm scared to face the reality of what I went through as a kid and how it's affected me, and I don't want to place the blame where it belongs and deal with the anger and grief, etc.). I asked them to give me until the end of the year and that if there is still no progress and I'm still feeling as crappy as I have been, then I will see this other woman T that I talked to. She seems really on top of stuff and has been practicing for 20 years. They agreed to continue their support and encouraged me to work hard at it because they want me to get better.

Anyway, I'm feeling better about this, having had some new insight about myself and my difficulties within my current therapy (Thanks LL!!) and I feel like I have some direction to go in. My T will be encouraged I think, when I tell her I went to my parents and asked them to support me a little longer. THAT was huge for me. I don't ask them for anything other than to watch my kids occasionally. It was really hard to ask them for what I needed, but that's part of what my T has given me to do for 'homework'. So I think I am finally starting to get somewhere and I'm feeling a bit better about things.

MTF

MTF

Yea you for going to your parents! It's always such a huge stride forward when we change our behavior with our FOO. And it sounds like you've done a good job getting the information and support you need to go forward. I am very happy to hear you feeling better, I hope the way forward is clearer for you. Let us know how it goes.



AG

YAY MTF

Good for you for talking to another T, apart from anything else you now have someone you could transition to if things don’t work out with current T – so that must feel a little bit comforting (even if not something you want to entertain as a possibility).

But especially good for you for broaching this with your parents. One of the (many!) extra things I wanted to say in my previous post was that it bothered me that you were under pressure from your mother to leave this T (both emotional pressure and with the withdrawal of help to pay.) So it’s really good to hear that you’ve spoken to them openly and got them to understand what’s going on AND that they are happy to help you. Sounds like they are pretty much backing you now?

You sound very determined and ready to really get on with it, that’s great to hear

Can I add one more ‘suggestion’ – that if you are able, try and get more frequent set sessions with your T – two weeks between sessions strikes me as a very long time and the time gap alone would be enough to break continuity in your therapy (so that it would feel like starting from scratch each time.) I know you’ve lots of reasons for not doing this, including how busy your T is, but maybe you could check it out with her all the same? She strikes me as wanting to do all she can to help you, so maybe despite how busy she is, she would still be able to fit you in with extra sessions.

Anyway, that’s just a thought – whatever you do, I’m glad you are feeling more positive about it all and willing to give it another go.

LL

MTF,

I think you've done some really great work! Talking to your parents is huge. WTG! I also think it sounds like you have a more clear direction with how to proceed and perhaps once things are clear to your T as well that you two can proceed forward. I hope therapy goes well from this point forward for you!!