Skip to main content

The PsychCafe
Share, connect, and learn.
28 replies

Not sure where to start ...

holzholzMember
Hi everyone ...

My P and I are going to start working on my 'Anger' issues next week, and we are going to start with the anger and hate I have for my mother (whose been deceased since 1996). There are literally about 100+ reasons that I have these feelings, many of them insignificant and petty to even bring up. So I'm struggling with where to start - do I go back to the first thing I remember? Do I talk about things we've already talked about (abuse and neglect), or should I be looking for something deeper and more profound ?? Any insight out there?

This is how my last 2 sessions went with the P and how we decided to work on this topic ...

I had an extra session with my P this past Monday and in that session we had started to talk about my mother and the anger, hate and resentment I feel towards her. We looked at the resentment first because it is like tearing open an old wound everyday. I care for my 'adopted' developmentally and physically handicapped brother 24/7. He's lived with me since our mother passed away in 1996 (she left him to me in her Will .. he got the money! LOL). He's 28 and gets around on his knees in the house (it's not wheelchair accessible), he has extreme behavioural issues ranging from yelling to being physically abusive and putting holes in walls. So the resentment that is always there .. is because my mother wanted to adopt him, when everyone else including my father and her family said NOT to do it and that it was too much. So when the Social Worker did the home/family study we were told that if we (especially me because I knew I'd be the one picking up the slack that SHE seemed to leave behind) ruined this for her we'd be sorry .. which meant a beating from one end of the house to the next and everyday until she got over it. So My P sees that this resentment is valid and isn't going anywhere until my brother is able to move out. So I imagine that it will dissipate after he moves into a group home next summer.

Regarding the hate and anger, my P said "Holly, why don't you just let it go? It's over, there's no changing it, let the anger go". This didn't make sense to me because if I could just let it go .. I wouldn't have anger issues and be there looking for her help LOL. So I went home and thought about it. I came to this conclusion ..
quote:
If I were to put the anger that I feel towards my mother on a (figurative) shelf then I would in essence be letting 'her' go, and leaving me to be responsible for how I turned out - instead of blaming her for what she did or didn't do for me. Also, if I wasn't angry at her anymore then I would be vulnerable to feeling the grief and sorrow of her death (which I have never done), which frightens me because the reaction I could have is unpredictable.

I shared that with my P at our session today. She was elated that I had finally figured something out (LOL I really suck at Therapy!). So now we need to talk about the anger to get by it .. feel it (Oi, I don't like he sound of THAT)... The P did add a disclaimer though - she said that if I get angry and start to take it out on her that she will end the session and send me home. WHATS THAT ABOUT Razzer I'm not a psycho ... much Smiler I'm hoping she tells everyone that because I don't want her to be worrying that I'm going to snap and kill her in the session Eeker Big Grin

So I'm asking for you to share you're experiences with how you worked through your pent up anger issues, and maybe give me an idea of how/where to start. *My P, I love her to bits, but she wouldn't help me get started, she'd want me to just talk and see whee it goes. But in 9 months (my lack of) talking hasn't gotten us very far! Smiler I've asked her for a 2nd session each week until I get going on this (seeing as I'm off of the anti-anxiety meds) because I don't think I could handle the anxiety of waiting a week to pick up where we left off. I was so relieved that she said she would accommodate me, but she said I better be ready to participate better .. so give me some help peeps!!!

Thanks for listening !

Holly
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

L learningtoflyMember
Hey holly,

Good on you for making the decision to start working on these issues. I don't get angry very often. I told my T the other day about something that had made me absolutely furious and she did the whole "how did that make you feel?" (yeah such a cliche) and I said angry. She told me anger is really a mask for hurt. Do you think that is true for you too? Because it certainly is for me.

Soooo great you had a breakthrough and that your P recognises that too! It is hard to take responsibility. Your mother did/didn't do things which have impacted on your life NOW. But I guess you can work on it so it won't continue to impact in the future.

It already sounds like you are really trying to participate more. Do you journal? Maybe you can try writing about how you feel and then sharing parts (not all) of that with your P? I participate more when I'm pushed (gently) so you could ask your P to be more direct with her questions too if you think that would help?

If you find you are struggling with left-over anger after a session, try practical ways of releasing it like exercise, digging a hole, screaming in your car while the music is on, anything so you don't take those feelings home with you.

And keep us posted!

LTF
holzholzMember
Hi LTF Smiler

Thanks for your comments. I'm sure that there is some validity in the anger I feel being a mask for hurt. I'm sure my P will point that out once we get going on it next week. I just hope that I am able to participate the way she needs me to, I'm so afraid to let anyone in far enough to show emotion so for her to expect me to 'feel' things is scary for me. I don't journal, mostly because I don't remember most of what happens in a session (I tend to blank things out when I start to feel anxious), so to sit down and write about it is hard. I also find it difficult to be honest with myself .. I sugar coat things or lessen the impact for some reason so that they don't seem as bad as they were. Maybe a part of me still tries to protect her(mom), or I'm protecting myself from myself. That sounds stupid really!

I do better when pushed a bit too, but when it hits that point where it's a little too much - then I shut down and become defensive, finding that very fine line will be hard for the P. She askes very few questions of me, it's more like she tells me what she sees and then I have to respond to that, or find a question in it for myself. So I will often take soemthign she said and say "So you are asking me ...." and I make my own questions Roll Eyes from what she says.

I already spend 2 1/2 hours a day 5 days a week at the gym, and then I I just started daily boxing sessions (maybe the combination will help with the stress), and I always go after my sessions just incase I need to get something out of my system. So the exercise helps for sure .. I took a couple of weeks off (of the gym) and things definately got rough at home, so I try not to skip it to often!

Thanks again for your suggestions, I appreciate it Smiler

Holly
catgirlcatgirlMember
Holly,
I don't currently have a lot of issues with anger, but my T has helped me when I'm angry through a type of therapy that Shrinklady talks about called body psychotherapy. She asks me about the feelings I'm having, and how it shows up in my body. Once I start paying attention to what my body is feeling, there's always an underlying sense of sadness in my chest, and the feelings move into that sadness.

I used to be angry a lot. In fact, my family of origin would be very surprised if they heard me say that I don't have issues with anger. Now, I know that it was a defense mechanism. It's not really me. It's not who I am. It was a cover, a protection for my little girl. I hope you can discover where your anger is coming from, too.

I've always had a hard time journaling, too. Now, I pretend that I'm writing to my therapist. It's amazing how prolific my pen has become!

Wow, you work out 2 1/2 hours a day 5 days a week?! I'd love to see your bod!

catgirl
holzholzMember
Eeker CG !!!!

My bod is a work in progress. I've lost about 60 lbs since September through working out. I need to lose another 50 then I can brag about my bod! And would be happy to share Razzer But what would you're significant other think!!! What's a woman to do when your Dr.s don't want you to go to work, one must occupy the hours in a day!

I'll have to go read SL's info on the Body Psychotherapy and see if it will help. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'm sure that my anger is a cover up (or a mask as LTF mentioned). I just wish I could find a way to find the real reasons behind the anger, as opposed to bringing up all of the petty things. I dunno Frowner

I might try to do the journaling and look at it the way you do, that might help.

Thanks for sending me a message, I appreciate what you have shared with me Smiler

Holly
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Hey Holly,

I was told I was angry during the years I was in and out of hospital but I could never see it.
In therapy MY THERAPIST got angry at what happened to me and that gave some validity to it...then those lousy feelings started coming up and I recognized them as mine. I felt pretty enraged at times. We did something that seemed silly but was actually pretty cool....she and I went out into the woods and I took along 6 dozen eggs. I was supposed to let the feelings of rage come up and throw the eggs at trees etc. It only partially worked because some people came walking by Eeker but out of the whole experience the part I remember is seeing in my mind's eye....egg running down the face of this (shrink) I hate to use that word too much on this site!....who had treated me really badly... Every time I saw him after that I had to suppress a grin.

But mostly for me, the anger/hidden rage of those years was overlaying a deep feeling of betrayal by my family...my mom mostly, followed by my grandfather, my dad and my sister...I was finally able to see that I had become the family's sacrificial lamb, my life could be spent, used up carrying the family's garbage... to keep the others stable and allow them to live their lives as they wanted. It was a devastating knowing and pretty well undid me for a short time....it was a very very tender place inside that was hurt, smashed, walked all over. Realizing that and working through it was absolutely necessary in my healing journey. In just a short time (3 years) I worked through a lot of the anger that had kept me captive (figuratively and literally) over 22 years.

It had always been fear that held me back from helping myself by going thru the fire of admitting it and feeling it. I finally decided it was safe enough and I'd had more than my share of the crap that comes with staying stuck.

I am sure that your truth will surface and you will recognize it....fear will try to win and make you dissociate from what your mind and body already knows... but if you keep working at it, you will find that freedom. This kind of work is always messy and complicated....we all use defenses differently, work through our issues our own way, and have had different experiences but this kind of therapy does work.

Take good care,

Karie
holzholzMember
Hi Karie Smiler

Thank you so much for your note and for sharing a bit of your story with me. LOL I hate to waste food (eggs) so I think that I'll stick with visualizing things/people as I hit the heavy bag everyday vs throwing eggs at the poor trees Razzer

Your story has given me something to think about because I can liken my anger to similar reasons you were angry with your family. Hopefully it doesn't take me 3 years - I'm sure my P will be retiring before then Smiler

Thanks again!

Holly
chronicallytransferredchronicallytransferredMember
quote:
If I were to put the anger that I feel towards my mother on a (figurative) shelf then I would in essence be letting 'her' go, and leaving me to be responsible for how I turned out - instead of blaming her for what she did or didn't do for me. Also, if I wasn't angry at her anymore then I would be vulnerable to feeling the grief and sorrow of her death (which I have never done), which frightens me because the reaction I could have is unpredictable.


Hi Holly, I just wanted to pop in here and let you know that I think you put this very well. What an awesome breakthrough. I have struggled with this very concept.... but the inverse. I have never been able to place my feelings of betrayal and neglect anywhere but on my own shoulders. It's amazing the things i hear myself say to my t about what i expect(ed) from me when i was a child... things i wouldn't expect any other child to do. I have always felt too responsible and been violently angry and abusive with myself.

As others have said, the more i work with the anger, i find the hurt and pain and am forced to feel it. it's hard work and i commend you for walking head first into this with your P. You have a legitimate fear, too... about vulnerability facilitating feeling the grief and pain over your mother's death. Much of my grief about my mother's death is wrapped up, not so much in her loss, but in the loss of the opportunity to get the things i never got from her. Coming to terms with her loss started first with breaking through my anger, denial and resistance... but now, it is freeing me from the dysfunctional relational patterns i've had all of my life. It is the hardest thing i have ever done... but it's necessary...

I know this is scary but you can do it. We are all here, reading, hoping and rooting for you. Trust that whatever comes to mind in your next session is where you need to start.

-CT
holzholzMember
{{{ CT }}}

Good for you in being able to come to terms with your loss and with figuring out the issues around yout anger, denial and resistance. I just feel so lost when I try to wrap my head around the process (how to get started, how you 'feel' or 'own feelings'). I know my P is there and should guide me, but she leaves a lot for me to find on my own, which is tough for me.

Thank you very much for sharing your story with me. It shows me that there is possibly change and/or peace at the end of it all, and that's where I need to get to .. the end of it all.

Thanks again!

Holly
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Whew! that was weird.....I couldn't access this site, the web just kept sending me other places.

Holly, my experience these days is making me believe that this is never really going to end...
I mean this really is a life long process...the confusion and the mystery of it all makes up deep and real, I think. Can't say that thrills me, but this sure is a long complex process. Today I feel kind of like I'm just at the beginning...

Karie
holzholzMember
Hi Karie Smiler

Thanks for the hope and inspiration Wink LMAO
I feel like I'm at the beginning everyday too. I'm sure that it never ends, but hopefully I'll (we'll) be able to understand it better at some point and be able to get through it all a little easier when it crawls back from the depths into our thoughts. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping! All I know is that the stress I have had over the last 3 weeks dwelling on this topic and coming off of the Effexor, I've put 10lbs on from eating to avoid thinking about it. THAT'S not thrilling ME LOL!! Roll Eyes

Hope you are enjoying your holiday Monday!

Holly
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Hey sorry about that. I guess it's an ebb and flow...so of course today is better.

I hear you about putting on weight...but coming off the Effexor will help you with the weight thing. Over time you'll drop what you (might!) have gained on the drug. It's made everyone I've had contact with who's taken it gain weight, including me Frowner

Tomorrow, I'm having a session that's going to involve an illumination. Not sure yet what that is all about, but it's done in energy work which my new P does. I'll let ya know...

Karie
holzholzMember
Hi Karie Smiler

Sorry I didn't write sooner, I've been avoiding all avenues that make me 'think'. How did your session go on Tuesday? I'm interested in knowing what the illumination was and how it went.

Oddly I continued to lose weight after being on the Effexor (I guess because I wasn't so depressed or anxious). It (the weight) started to come back the more and more I started to feel the way I was before the Effexor. So my issues in weight clearly relate to how I deal with my depression and anxiety. Frowner I'll probably find a way to choke myself silly if I gain the 60 50 lbs I've lost so far.

I had my first session today talking about my anger towrds my mother. It's so stupid how everything feels so insignificant to me, yet has so much to do with who I am. I feel like a whiner just talking to the P about it. I feel like I've finished talking about it all after today, but Dr. I (P) said I had just started. I don't even know what to talk about in my next session ..... I suck at Therapy! LOL

Anyway, enough about me. Let me know about your session, I'm interested in hearing about the 'energy work'.

Be well!

Holly
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Hi Holly!

I haven't posted for a few days and it seems like a long time.....

A couple of things, first...I am gaining weight these days as well because I can't stop eating everything in sight - the Stress of the job change thing, I guess.

Good for you for "keeping on" doing the hard stuff in therapy. I know the feelings of thinking you're a whiner, this is stupid etc....they are protective THOUGHTS designed to distance you and keep you safe far away from vulnerable FEELINGS that might come up in the presence of another person! Ahhhh.

The energy work. Well...hmmm...what do I say?...it went kind of stupidly..
What happened was I was in a not great Frowner mood. I had taken a book with a story that I once found triggering to show her because I think it's an issue I need to address.....and I read it in my car right before I walked up to her office. I felt terrible through the appt then drove the 1 hour trip to my home where I immediately went online looking for a train ticket to NOWHERE. Since there were no trains leaving for BC or Halifax that night I went to bed. Thank goodness for time to calm down.

What we did in the session was ...I was to decide on an issue that was bothering me (not hard to do) that I wanted to address...then blow the neg energy into stones or rocks that have a special name. My P is also a Shaman in case this sounds bizarre. She then had me lay on a table on my back and held a pendulum over me checking the 4 chakras (areas) to see which area needed attention. (Hey, this is new to me and I'm not sure of why or how she did what she did).
She found the pendulum swung the wrong direction over my chest so that was the area that held the problem. She also put her index fingers under my neck while she stood at the head of the bed behind my head. The purpose of this experience was to break up and move out neg energy that she identified. I had to do some breath work, blowing out the neg energy as she did too for me. I remember her saying there was a dagger in my stomach that she symbolically removed and then healed the area around it. I felt very calm at the end of the session, however, I was also feeling quite suicidal during and after the session. So go figure.......

I think that the story I read (about a person's very young abuse experience) prior to the appt is what caused such a neg reaction after and during my illumination. I hope that's what did it. I first read that story in 1995 and it sent a huge reaction through my body. (My heart pounded so hard it seemed to bang out at least 4 or 5 inches away from my chest, I felt terror, couldn't get my breath, had choking sensations, nearly vomited, and felt immediately suicidal ......have you ever read Bessel VanderKolk's article "The Body Knows The Score?). I think I might have had an experience similar to this story when I was young. Many facts and body memories point to it but I have no actually mind remembering of it. My mom and aunt were also abused by the same man we think abused me.
I really fight the terror of whatever it is (this memory?) inside of me that keeps pushing intense feeling up. It seems to want to overtake me....I hate tolerating intense emotions and believe I'll die if I let it have it's way.

Anyway, I am going to see my P today and will tell her about reading it and what I think caused my distress.

Another interesting thing was that right then, I felt the safest with this new P I have felt so far.....I am usually quite fearful in sessions...

I don't really know for sure why such awful feelings emerged. gee. They kind of spoiled the experience.
chronicallytransferredchronicallytransferredMember
IHTS-
quote:
Another interesting thing was that right then, I felt the safest with this new P I have felt so far.....I am usually quite fearful in sessions...


This is huge! I'm so happy for you.

quote:
I don't really know for sure why such awful feelings emerged. gee. They kind of spoiled the experience.


Several years ago, I was babysitting my mentor's kids.. the first few times I was with them, they were well behaved and sweet and everything. Well, out of the blue one day, the younger one threw this MONSTER fit in front of me. It was the first time she ever did this with me around. Well, her mom (my mentor) looked at me, in the midst of her daughter's screaming, and said "well, I guess she trusts you now." Confused, I asked her to explain and she told me that her daughter must trust/feel safe with me if she is willing to feel negative, real emotions with me.

That experience stuck with me because I realized that we do that too... when we finally can feel anger/harsher emotions with our t/p's, it usually is because we now feel safe with them... maybe BECAUSE you were feeling so safe with your p, you were able to feel the awful feelings? Maybe they didn't spoil the experience but were a result of the experience (just my thoughts, disregard if they don't apply).

Holly-
How's the anger stuff going? Where did you start with your t?

-CT
holzholzMember
quote:
Holly, How's the anger stuff going? Where did you start with your t?

CT, CT, CT Roll Eyes

The anger stuff has come to an abrupt halt. I actually think that I quit therapy today! Long story and one that I'm not too sure I can share right now. Biggest thing is that I'm a screw up and I am now too proud to go back and see if anything can be salvaged. So I guess my 'anger' issues still need some help and I need a kick in the ass!

Thanks for asking though Roll Eyes Smiler

Anyway .. off to wallow in self pity .. something I'm good at!
holzholzMember
Hi CG,

The wallowing went pretty well! I had 3 hours sleep each night between Monday and today (Thursday), so I had plenty of time for dwelling on my stupidity and wallowing in self pity. Thanks for asking!!! Smiler

What's going on with me .. hmm I went to Therapy this Morning to apologize for Monday and to have a proper closing .. but now I'm still in therapy Confused I really suck!

You must be a glutton for punishment to have asked me if I wanted to talk. Seems that writing things is the easiest way for me to unload, vs. talking, so there could be pages AND pages of talking .. are you up for that????
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Hi Karie... I'm sorry you are suffering so these past days. I have enjoyed our exchanges and I find your story very inspirational. You are very strong and please don't give up. I do agree at times being responsible sucks. It would be nice to just allow someone to take care of me for a change but I can't seem to let anyone do that... even my T. I'm always fighting the urges to take care of him. My T and I just had a conversation about my dx...I suggested changing it from GAD to complex PTSD which is slightly different from straight PTSD...unfortunately they did not include complex PTSD or DESNOS in the DSM IV. I've been reading a lot about complex trauma lately and I can see where it would apply to my situation. The book you are reading sounds quite interesting. I may check it out.

So please hang in there... life transitions are never easy and are fraught with fear of the unknown. But you can handle it with your P's help. I hope things improve real soon for you.

TN
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Hi,

TN, thanks for your reply. I thought maybe I should move some of my post last night to a new thread so did that.

Yeah, life is not easy right now....but I think this is how you grow?

I wish too, that the DSM IV could maybe be put in the trash. The new one isn't due until 2012 and who knows if they will have completed enough and big enough studies to feel they can agree on the 'hard evidence' to include more accurate diagnostic criteria and labels. I believe that Complex PTSD is quite different from PTSD. The complex type includes traumas (emotional(psychological)/physical/sexual/spiritual) that happen repeatedly over years....and attachment injury also can be described as a trauma....whereas PTSD can result from just one traumatic experience. The difference between C-PTSD and PTSD leads to treatment and recovery issues. It is harder and takes longer for someone with C-PTSD to get better due to the complexity and layers of it all. There are a lot of different labels to choose from at the present time that a C-PTSD person might end up with, rather than a more accurate diagnosis.

I had a client assessed by a P who specializes in trauma...her report came back stating she fit into 6 different diagnoses that = C-PTSD (GAD was one of them). I thought it was pretty enlightened of this P to document it that way. And sending out a report written like that helps teach other less informed professionals about trauma and C-PTSD. But this whole thing with the DSM is going to take time. My P wrote PTSD because since this episode began with my client's suicide, the insurance co. would be able to understand and accept it better.

Hey, TN, if you get the book Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman MD, you'll find a chapter in there called "A New Diagnosis".....she coined the term Complex PTSD and explains why it needs its own category. It's a landmark book. I would love to hear this lady speak sometime.

Thanks for your support TN.

Holly, OK....cool.

Karie
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Hi Karie... thanks for responding. It's not that I really care what my dx is on paper as per the DSM codes is more that I need my T to understand what it is. I have so many of the other issues they describe under the C-PTSD umbrella that I know it would be easier for him to know how to treat me if he had a better understanding of the full picture. He was great when I proposed this new dx to him. He pulled out his DSM IV book to check that it was not there and we read the current PTSD description and discussed it. He also made notes as to what I told him and he said he needs to do research on this. I love that he is so willing to consider what I bring to him. He tells me that I make him a better psychologist because I am willing to collaborate. He is currently reading my book "Attachment and Psychotherapy" by David Wallin. And yes, attachment injury is a part of C-PTSD. And personally, I think my T just uses a dx to make the insurance co happy.

I was looking at Herman's book thinking about buying it. Is there just only one chapter on C-PTSD or is that the general theme of the book? Just curious.

Yeah, growing and changing in painful and scary. I think you are very brave. This all takes a long time and we need to be patient with ourselves. We deserve good things. Gotta run.

TN
itshardtosayitshardtosayMember
Hi again TN,

I love your reln' with your T!
That is awesome...I'm happy for you that he listens and gives you credit for your half of the reln'.

Here is a breakdown of Herman's book....

PART 1: TRAUMATIC DISORDERS

Chp 1. A Forgotten History
Chp 2. Terror
Chp 3. Disconnection
Chp 4. Captivity
Chp 5. Child Abuse
Chp 6. A New Diagnosis

PART II: STAGES OF RECOVERY

Chp 7. A Healing Relationship
Chp 8. Safety
Chp 9. Remembrance and Mourning
Chp 10. Reconnection
Chp 11. Commonality

Yes, this book has added to my understanding of the healing process for C-PTSD.

Karie

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×

Access to this requires a premium membership.

Be a Patron Member

Get psychotherapy help to make your therapy easier and better.



Yes, I've learned about all the benefits of being a Patron Member (Click here if you missed seeing them: Community Psychotherapy Help

Yes, I understand that...

1. I can do a 7 day free trial and my credit card will not be charged until that period is up.

2. I can cancel at any time before then and my card will not be charged.

3. That once my credit card is charged, there is no refund offered.

Have a special coupon?

4. If I'm using a coupon my receipt won't show the discounted amount (It'll show $7.95). However, I understand that it will go through as $2.95 when I am billed after the 7 day trial. (According to the current promotion, this discount applies to the first three months of my membership - and as long as I use the coupon in the checkout.)*

*Please note that after the 3 months, billing will revert to the regular monthly fee.
**The fee posted below is our standard billing fee (ie. using no coupon).

7-Day Free Trial, then $7.95 per Month (plus tax if applicable)
×