Affinity, I can so relate... talking about needs makes me want to vomit. I usually shut down. However, a while back T and I did some work around needs and things improved. I ended up with two transitional objects. Lately though, I back in the depths of needs where it is so painful.

I don't have any suggestions other than to talk about it. It's painful, but necessary.

Affinity, Well, well, well. Just so happens I just got back from a session along the sames lines. Instead of banging my head against the wall, we talked about dependency, needs, vulnerability and the way I "am". I wish I had a recording. It turned out great. We went all over the place. He said one very important thing was that I was "speaking" about this. I was letting him see what "kills" me about this process. The ability for me to talk....to let him "see" me was SO huge and hard. To know he won't leave me, laugh at me, roll his eyes. He was was a very soft place to fall today. It was kind of like almost letting myself fall backwards into his arm. I am trusting more and it feels utterly, insanely, amazing. Hope I can keep it up. I can change on a dime. Talk to him....you may be surpised in a very good way. Many times, by what you post, you remind me of myself. I said to him I feel there is a steel trap I can't open. He said it is more like a door with a window and I am looking through it and want what's on the other side....and we hold the key, only us, but we NEED their help. Baby steps, no giant leaps. Hope it went well.

I hope it went well, A!!!

(((RM))) (((VH))) (((effed)))
I wish I could say it went well, but...ugh. I got in there and couldn't get a word out. When I finally got around to mentioning the dynamic between us, he redirected the issue to how I feel about my dad. He then said I have this tendancy to get tangled up emotionally, and then I come to session and try to "change the relationship." I asked him what he meant by that, and he said, "What do you think I mean?" I said if I had any idea, I wouldn't have asked. I accused him of dodging me. He accused me of dodging myself.

We did talk about needs, but it was in the broader context of my life and making up my mind what I want for the future.

It seems to me that my T is putting up a shield and purposely turning my focus away from him. I don't think he's going to indulge my feelings of attachment in any way. Which, I guess, is his prerogative. I don't need that to heal, right? I just need him to be a mirror, advisor, and sounding board.

[Sob]

Hi Affinity... I'm sorry your session left you feeling dissatisfied and it sounds like you are feeling frustrated. I apologize, I don't know a lot about your T relationship but how long are you with him? And while I do know that you feel you have a transference with him what about attachment? Have you ever had a discussion about that and has he told you his stance on it? I think having him be an advisor and a sounding board is not a problem if you are just there for counseling but if you are looking for depth psychotherapy and a relationship that heals, then attachment is a very important part of it.

My oldT was very dodgy around attachment. He was definitely not comfortable with it and it led me to very bad end with him. My current T is very accepting of attachment and encourages it. In fact, he actually sets the stage for it to happen then he allows the process to take over. He says if there is something between the patient and T it will happen naturally, he does not need to do anything else. He is a firm believer that this is how healing occurs... through the relationship. He is very comfortable with talking about love in the relationship and says love is another word for attachment.

I do think that many T's are afraid of the strong feelings that will develop between a T and patient. Because of this they tend to direct the patient's feelings away from themselves and try to pin them on someone else in the patient's life of their past. And while this is valid, working in the transference is what psychoanalysts are trained in, there are also real here and now feeling involved in many cases.

I'm sorry you could not talk much. I really understand that because I have SO much anxiety when I get to T's office that I shut down or freeze up in fear and then I leave there frustrated that I did not get to say what I really wanted to. We have been working hard lately on having me arrive in a more relaxed and less fearful state. It works at times but lately I have had so much anxiety I can't even remember what I wanted to say to him. Today was good though. I managed to push the anxiety aside and we had a good session.

I hope it gets easier for you to talk with him.

TN

I relate - oh how much I relate.

I feel I am in the exact same crossroads - we have been openly acknowledging and talking (a little) about the therapeutic relationship and I've acknowledged how the limitations of it parallel that of the traumatic relationship I had with my mother growing up.

I too am at the stage where I feel I want - NEED - a little more from her, and it's so damn scary. Your trigger word is 'needs' - mine currently is 'boundaries'.

I too just this morning was thinking of asking for an 'object' or something from her, to take away with me between sessions, as comfort.

I too, have NO idea where her boundary with this is. FARK it's a damn scary place. And a real bind - if we don't ask we won't ever get anything - but if we do ask, we may find a boundary being slapped in our faces that will being up more pain (but hopefully temporary, and survivable pain????).

Affinity, I agree with TN. Sounds like your T is uncomfortable with this subject. I do hope you can make headway. It really is important for you...and the theraputic alliance. That is where the healing takes place. Don't give up. Keep talking and be as open as you can. You'll find out in time if you need to find another T. They are all so different.

Eliza, I've accused T of "slapping" my hands in the past and he said "No, I gently moved them". I am always trying to break through the boundaries and he sees exactly what I am doing. But I keep trying. He keeps protecting me by being a true professional. He is very cautious with me. I told him this is so hard for me and he said "You think it's hard for you. I say one wrong word and you are never coming back"! And, he is right. This is very hard work and scary too!

The thing that makes me crazy is that he seemed so accepting of these feelings in the beginning - even said they were part of the process! This is the first time he's purposely redirected me on the subject. I know some of the transference issue involves feelings about my dad, but there is a whole other part that's very much here-and-now and pressing.

I guess it's possible that he thinks I'm becoming a bit obsessed with the relationship and is trying to get me to dig elsewhere. Understandable. But the dynamic between us somehow feels vitally important to everything else, which is why I keep trying to explore it and iron out the wrinkles - the main wrinkle being what needs he's willing to meet. But it seems like at the exact moment I get close to figuring it out, or work up the courage to discuss it, he throws another boundary in my way.

(And he says I'm changing the relationship!)

There's a part of me that would like to view him as just a sounding board, but every time I decide to do that, my heart breaks. I can't do it. It hurts too much. It feels impossible. There has to be an answer.

(((AFFINITY)))

It sounds very painful. Can u tell us more about your T? His training, background and philosophy? It seems to me it's counterproductive for him to block your questions. Do you feel like he cares about you? Has he ever told you he cares?

Safe hugs if wanted Affinity.

Could you print him off this thread / your posts? email it to him, and say you NEED to talk about this, as it is tearing you up?

(easy for me to give you that advice, when I'm not sure I would do it myself … although I do usually end up emailing my T most things…)

(((Eliza J))) Safe hugs are great.


(((Liese))) I believe my T is a cognitive behavioral T, and he specializes in adult survivors of childhood abuse (particularly ACoA). He's been in practice for over 40 years, so his experience is extensive. He's also a survivor himself. I've been seeing him since the end of January, and we have a good connection. Transference came up early and strong.

I know my T cares. He has said so - even talked about the L word. Twice he has looked at me in a way that has made me feel deeply and tenderly loved in a way I've rarely experienced. Which is why I'm so confused about his behavior now. He seems increasingly guarded and deflecting. Maybe it's a phase, maybe he's just trying to push me. Maybe I'm being too sensitive. I don't know, but I'm baffled.

((((AFFINITY))))

You are not too sensitive. Don't dismiss your feelings. They are important. They might not mean what you are afraid they do (rejection?) but they are important. I might be the wrong one to chime in here because of my recent experience with my T but I now truly believe that when I felt a bit more removed from my T, it was because he was unable to be emotionally available to me for whatever reason whether it had to do with me or with something else in his life. If it's something that is going on in his life and is temporary, it will pass but if there is some counter transference going on, it may linger a bit more. Perhaps he is feeling more guarded because he had some strong feelings towards you that you felt those two times. Perhaps the "you are trying to change the relationship" comment was projection. You don't know and I don't think we can always trust our T's to be honest about their counter transference. At least I couldn't trust my T. I don't think you are trying to change the relationship. I think you want to feel safe with him on an emotional level.

I know you tried to bring it up already but what about telling him that you feel he is more guarded with you and you feel disconnected from him? Or you could wait it out a few sessions and see if things return to the way they were? If so, then it's probably about something going on in his life - though from his comment that I mentioned above, it does seem like he's trying to Maintain some emotional distance. Of course I don't really know at all and so please dismiss if it doesn't resonate.

Liese,

I do suspect some counter transference. He once mentioned (in a roundabout way) having some paternal feelings toward me, but I suspect they might go a bit deeper than that. I don't think he's sexually attracted to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if his thoughts ran a bit toward the romantic side.

I have thought that his recent behavior might have something to do with this - that maybe he thinks he's having trouble keeping himself in check emotionally. (He did reference the phrase "emotional boundaries" a couple of weeks ago.) I just feel like he's stuffing me into a straight jacket and implying that certain things aren't ok to talk about. At the same time, I need to sense his support and work through these feelings. Ugh, could it get more complicated?

(((AFFINITY)))

quote:

At the same time, I need to sense his support and work through these feelings.

This is a tough spot to be in. Been there.

Hang in there Affinity. Liese had some good advise. Give it some time. 40 years experience is a long time and you seem to have a decent connection with him. Hopefully, it will get worked through. There are dissapointing times in therapy, ebbs and flow.

More safe hugs if ok ......

I think it's really brave you are seeing a male T to begin with - I really could not cope with it, I'd be so incredibly fearful of any remote hint of sexual anything (no matter how far fetched the possibility).

Very much relate to the needing to feel the support of your T while you're working through hard stuff THEY have triggered.

It seems you have a very open relationship with him, able to talk about anything? Any chance you can bring this up with him? Your confusion about what he might be feeling? Of do you think that might make it worse - esp if your concerns are confirmed?

(((VH)))

(((Eliza J)))

Oh, GAWD, I don't know. If he is attracted to me in that way, I really don't want to know. That's his issue to deal with. And, honestly, if he is, he's done a darn good job of hiding it so far. Nothing in his manner has indicated that he, um, wants me physically, so I feel really safe with him.

I really just want to know why he's been so guarded lately and what, if anything, he'd be willing to do to make me feel nurtured and more connected. We do have a pretty open relationship (I think), but it's still somewhat in the early stages, and there are apparently a few kinks left to work out.

I think if you're able to, then clarifying things would be best obviously. It might be he is more guarded; or of course, it might be something in you that has changed, and / or your perception of him and your working relationship has changed. It's neither good or bad; but I think if you do bring up the possibility of counter transference and you don't want to know if he had sexual thoughts etc then you need to be clear you don't want to know that. (I would think. Out Ts would never disclose if they did cos it would be really really awkward and I don't see how confessing feelings would ever be ok for the client but anyway...)

I've done that with my T when checking things out - I'll say 'I'm worried you think this, and I DONT want an answer either way, I just want to tell you my fears....'

What day do you see your T? Is it once a week session?

I currently have session once a week, and tomorrow is my day to see him. I wrote a letter to my dad that I'm planning to discuss tomorrow, but once that's done, I'll probably tackle his "changing the relationship" statement. I have this tendency to shut down in a conflict and just go along with what he says, so I'm hoping that doesn't happen this time.

((((AFFINITY))))

Good luck tomorrow. Will be thinking about you.

UPDATE: I had a really good session yesterday. I brought in the letter to my father and read it to my T. We spent some time discussing it. Then we moved on to some other things, like my desire to (someday) only work part-time in order to do some things I want to do. Finally, in the last 6 minutes of session, I asked him about "changing the relationship." He explained what he meant, and I understood his point. He basically said that I sometimes try to put the focus of our sessions on him to take the heat off myself and my issues - in a way, trying to turn the therapeutic relationship into a friendship. We both agreed this might be a great topic to explore in more detail next session.

The great news is, he seemed much less guarded this time. His eyes were really warm and he said some things that made me feel special to him. I left feeling more connected and secure. So, rejoicing all around.

(((AFFINITY)))

That sounds really positive. So happy for you. Is there anything wrong with having a one-way friendship with a T as long as it's confined to their office? I ask that because I do think my Old T had very much become my confidant. I didn't have anyone IRL to talk to and didn't know how to talk to anyone IRL. I see that he fulfilled some of those needs for me until I could develop other relationships apart from him. And I do believe that was very therapeutic for me. I also believe that it was therapeutic for me to care about him sometimes so as to equalize the power imbalance.