(((AV)))

quote:

Apparently my sister had told W that our mother blames her (W) for the breakdown of our marriage; which is simply NOT the case.

That sounds just awful. What I can't understand is, even if your mother really did say that, why your sister told W? To me, that's as bad as what your mother said. What was your sisters motivation? Was she trying to hurt W? Or was she trying to turn W against your Mum? There wasn't anything positive going on there.

And all this comes at a time when your sister is aware that your Mum (as well as your sister) is coming to visit for the weekend and the timing couldn't have been any worse? If she had told her months from now, when you were already separated, it probably would have hurt but not as much as now.

I know you asked for advice on how to handle the weekend. Perhaps you could just mention to everyone that the split is amicable and neither one of you blames the other and hopes no one else does either? If I were you, I'd call my sister out on the carpet for saying something hurtful to W. Just my opinion.

AV that’s a pretty shitty situation you’ve been landed in.

I can guess that your mother would put the blame on your wife, isn’t that what mothers of sons usually do? Even without knowing anything about your set up I guess she just assumed there had to be someone at fault and the non family member is usually the one to get the blame.

It is an odd thing that your sister told your wife about it though. Maybe she thought she was being helpful, in case there were bad vibes or silent messages being thrown round the place when you all get together at the weekend? Better to know that something negative has been said than to sit there getting all paranoid wondering what’s causing the frosty atmosphere.

Sounds like your mother isn’t the most honest or transparent of people and harbours silent grudges and unspoken blame – maybe knowing this you and your wife could just act like you know nothing and carry on like normal? Unless you can see some benefit in bringing it out into the open and talking about it, that might be your best policy, keep it all under the carpet, at least in order to get through the weekend.

If you suddenly announce that it’s an eminently amicable split and no-one is to blame, chances are that won’t come across as natural, it’ll sound like you’re addressing an unspoken question and might stir things up.

It’s a toughie actually. How do you both feel about it? If you’re both not bothered by what your mother thinks, maybe it would be better to just ignore the whole thing. On the other hand if it’s upset either of you, being up front and honest about it might be the way to go.

LOL I’ve ended up giving you completely conflicting suggestions, as if you hadn’t thought of it all yourself anyway .

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it goes well for you all.

LL

p.s. and I’m sorry to hear about the split with your wife, but it’s good to hear that it’s amicable.

AV, a different experience with me, my in laws totally blame me and I have not spoken to them for 14 years!!! But funnily enough I still allow the kids to go across to France every year, several times. They seem to forget that I could make things very difficult. When I say 14 years it was because I left him then when my first brother died but I came back.

Now we have separated, like yourself, living in the same house etc. My mother and father hold no blame for anyone, it is just one of those things.

I would say that you need to show a united front and that things are amicable between you. Some people just can't get their heads round the fact that a split can occur without any animosity.

Good luck to you and in the end I think, even though you probably have no intention of getting back together it will strengthen a friendship if there is to be one.

((((Liese))))
You amaze me in that you can always see something that I've missed. I hadn't even considered my sisters part in this; only from W's and my mothers point of view. Thank you for that. I actually saw your reply last night and thought about it overnight. The thing is; my sister and W get on really well, and they always have, so for sure I don't think she was trying to hurt W. As regards my sisters relationship with our mum; if anything it was/is worse than mine. She has had to live with being told by her mother that she wasn't even wanted since she was a girl! I was fortunate to avoid that fate purely because I was born with a pair of b#&*s obviously! It was only after sis gave her two grandsons that things thawed a little between them; although I know for a fact that sis was petrified of mums reaction had she had grand daughters instead. I'm not sure that sis was trying to turn W against my mum. I think she was maybe trying to be helpful by telling us now so that we could use the opportunity on Saturday to make things clearer. Actually; I just remembered. When I told my mum of the separation I did tell her then that no-one was to blame and that it was a joint decision; so she seems to have forgotten that. I guess I could see it that my mum is showing some sort of 'love' towards me; IDK.

(((Lampers)))

Yes; you're right. That is what mothers of sons tend to do. But having told her that that wasn't the case I wonder why she thinks that now. I agree with you that sis was trying to be helpful, and in fact I think she was helpful as now we can work on the issue. I don't think we'll make a big thing of it at the weekend; but maybe just slip into the conversation that it's no-ones fault again and hope she listens thhis time. W was very upset about it; mainly because she has no family of her own apart from mine, and she felt like she was losing not only her husband but her entire family at the same time.
You're right; my mother is very two faced and totally unreachable on an emotional level; just cold and emotionless, even at her own mothers funeral.

(((Scars)))
There are some similarities between us here! I had NO contact whatsoever with my family; parents or sister, for 15 years. They had no idea where I lived and I didn't contact them. I suppose I was saying "well, you've done nothing for me so far and you don't seem to care; so I'll do things on my own" I did eventually get back in touch; but ONLY because I didn't have anyone else to turn to. Since then, and that was about 17 years ago now, not a single word has been said about those missing years. It's as if they never happened.
I think you're spot on in that W and I show a united front and a bit of togetherness on saturday, to show that things are amicable between us. We don't have any intention of getting back together in the future; but we are both hopeful that we will remain friends afterwards come what may.

Thanks for all your input; it's very much appreciated.

HI AV

quote:

She has had to live with being told by her mother that she wasn't even wanted since she was a girl!

Oh, that's awful. Your poor sister. She must hate your mother. It would be very hard for me to forgive my mother if she ever said anything like that to me.

quote:

was fortunate to avoid that fate purely because I was born with a pair of b#&*s obviously!

I'm sorry, AV, I just don't understand what those characters stand for. Can you spell it out for me? JK!!!

I'm glad your sister and W are close and you don't think she was trying to hurt W. I can see why W would not want your Mum to blame her but, personally, I don't see the point in telling W. Your sister could have told you instead and spared W all that pain. Then again, I don't really see a point in telling you. It just seems like stirring the pot to me. Your mother is going to think what your mother is going to think.

quote:

I'm not sure that sis was trying to turn W against my mum. I think she was maybe trying to be helpful by telling us now so that we could use the opportunity on Saturday to make things clearer.

That could be AV. Let's hope but why couldn't your sister have told your mother, "No, Mum, it's not W's fault. It was a joint decision and things are very amicable."

Oh, gosh AV, I hope I'm not being too outspoken here. There is too much acrimony in the world as it is.

(((Liese)))

No; of course you're not being too outspoken at
all. I value your input as always.
Perhaps if I were more proactive in calling my
sister she would have told me instead. That would
have been a much more sensible option.

Oh and the word you were looking for rhymes with
halls!!!!!!!

(((((Draggers)))))

Thank you so much for those kind words; you brought a lump to my throat. The world is a much better place having wonderful people like you around.



AV. xx

Hi AV,

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry for being so judgmental about your sister. It's one thing to say this is the way things ought to be. It's quite another to live that way. Gossiping in families is just as common as it is everywhere else. I'm as guilty of it as the next person.

I do agree wholeheartedly with Dragonfly:

quote:

well i just think its wonderful that you are still friends with your W and that you are splitting amicably.More to the point ,i just love the fact that despite the divorce you are still very respectful of her feelings...so im sending a huge hug..cos i just think thats a real gentlemanly wonderful thing

Sending a big hug too.

(((Av))) No helpful words..just big hugs. Draggers said it wonderfully.

(((AV))) Firstly its great to see people part ways in a mature and respectful way! So good on both you and your W for that!

Well, well your mother sounds exactly like my mother in-law!

My suggestion, you and your W sit down with your mother and you say something along the lines of...."Yo Mom! We dig hanging out with you but.." just kidding seriously something along the lines of "Mom/Mum we both thought it was necessary to have this conversation with you because to date you have never asked us why we are splitting up and I want to be the one to make it very clear that W and I will always love each other but we have grown apart and it's nobody's fault. Neither of us are to blame. We have both spoken about it a great deal and neither of us harbours any resentment toward the other. We are both adults and it seems pointless to continue in a relationship that is not benefiting either one of us. I would therefore like to ask you to continue to treat W in the same way you have always treated her, because although we are separating I will always love and respect her for the person she is, and I would hope that you would do the same". If you want to do it in front of your sister you can do that too. Your excuse for addressing the subject could simply be because you feel you have never given an explanation to your family and you feel due to the length of time she has been a part of your family you need to do that.

Just a suggestion. Good Luck AV!!!

B2W

(((((Liese!)))))


Thanks Liese but there's no need for any apologies at all. I'm probably guilty of being judgemental about my mother in any case. Actually your earlier reply prompted me to ask W if my sister gave any indication of why she was telling her this now. I think she was doing it as her friend and to let her know that she was defending our corner as she sees and speaks to our mum regularly and is maybe in a better position to get the message across. Hugs, as always.



(((Kashley))) Thank you. I hope you're feeling a little better today too.





(((B2W))) Thanks for your comments; and I'm sorry to hear that you have a MiL like that too

You know; if I sat down and had that conversation with my mother I think it would be longest talk I've had with her; EVER!! Shocking; but true. She just doesn't engage in conversation with me.

quote:

I would therefore like to ask you to continue to treat W in the same way you have always treated her, because although we are separating I will always love and respect her for the person she is, and I would hope that you would do the same"

Absolutely. That is just the message I want to get across to her somehow. I know my dad is very fond of W, and although even he cow tows to everything my mother says, I'm hoping he might get to make her see the truth somehow.

Hello AV just wanted to send you some hugs and wish you well for your meeting with your mother tomorrow. Hope it goes smoothly.

LL

((((Lampers))))

Thank you. Yes, hopefully the day will pass off smoothly. Either that, or I'll grab a bottle of plonk and lock myself in the garage until they've gone back to you....

AV.

Hopefully it will pass quickly (((AV))) I suggest you don't hold your breath for an attitude change - it all too often doesn't happen!!

Ditto to what Draggers said - you're a good bloke!!

I have a mental picture of you and the W both grabbing the plonk, heading to the garage and leaving them all to it!!! Sorry!!

(((Morgs)))

You know; things said in jest often have more than a grain of truth in them. That MIGHT just happen; that W and I hide in the garage with the plonk till they decide to go home

I hope not though; I'm sure everything will be just fine really.

Hi everyone;

Well the fact I'm still here posting means I haven't run off into the night screaming

My family were here for around 7 hours today. My mother neither said hello to me nor goodbye to me; although that wasn't unexpected or unusual, after all, it's only been 3 months since she last saw me! She did speak to me; TWICE! Once to apologise for standing in the kitchen doorway, and once to say thanks for a cup of coffee. Other than that, nothing. She talked about me; so at least I was reassured that I actually exist, which was nice.

W and I did present a united front to them and we did drop into the conversation a few times that we were still going to remain friends and that the split was amicable, although my mother remained totally expressionless throughout. Talking to my brother in law; he did say that my sister and he had said to my mum a number of times that it was 'just one of those things' and that no-one was to blame. Maybe it will sink in with her, maybe not.

At least she did say generally that she hoped we'd still visit them, and she did give W a hug as they left which was good to see. Generally the day went as expected I guess. Dad, sis and BiL all pleased to see us both and mum totally unmoved and unreadable. Still, we survived; and the Merlot was good!!

I suppose I know what to expect from my mother by now, so the fact that she doesn't speak to me or even look directly at me doesn''t bother me. I just have to accept that that is the way she has been and probably always will be.

Is it me, do you think? Should I make more effort to engage in conversation with her? Not that she's ever given any indication that's what she would like me to do.

Sounds like you did everything you could AV.

Well done AV for getting through that ordeal, OMG families cam be such a nightmare. I hate people being rude and your mum not talking to you was certainly that; I cannot see why poeple feel the silent treatment is an effective way of communicating it is very reminiscent of how my mum was with me and it hurts almost more than anything

Well all I can say is very well done for getting through that; I hope that's it with her visiting before Christmas now. Remember AV, she has the problem here and not you

starfishy

Hey way to go AV, that you not only got through the day but coped remarkably well with the whole thing. I’m sorry too that your mother cold shouldered you throughout, that is really weird, does no-one notice it? How can she be that way and no-one comment on it? Or does the rest of your family just accept it and ignore it? And I assume it’s not something you are too upset about or you’d confront her about it?

Just wondering, obviously I have no idea of your history or relationship with her (except that you hadn’t had a lot to do with her for a long time.)

If it’s a duty thing, like seeing her once in a while, then maybe yeah just accepting the status quo and ignoring all the bad stuff sounds ok. It obviously worked for you yesterday .

I think I’m just a bit gobsmacked at how she could sit there for an entire afternoon and say only two words to you. I’m sorry you have such an awful mother .

But I’m glad you got through it so well and are feeling ok about it all. Good for you ((((((((((( AV )))))))))

LL

(((Scars))) (((Draggers))) (((Starfishy))) (((Lampers)))


Thank you all.


Scars; yes we did all we could and in the end I think it was enough. Five of us had a good day and one (my mum) you can never really tell anyway!!

Draggers; it is a bit rude isn't it. You may be right in that she sees it as a bit of a favour, her coming to see us, I don't know. Maybe thre's some sort of guilt? on her part that makes it hard for her to speak to me?

Starfishy; thank you. I'm so sorry your mum treated you with the silent treatment as well; it's not nice. Yes, it is the last visit before Christmas; and hopefully the last one before next Easter if I have anything to do with it.

Lampers; Yes I think my brother in law especially notices it, as does W, but it's not commented on by and large. Yes, we all accept it and ignore it basically and it certainly doesn't bother me at all.

Haha, seeing my family is a duty to me really I must confess. But then I think life itself is a 'duty' or a 'chore' to my mother, as she seems to get no visible pleasure from anything. IDK if she does and just doesn't show it, or if she really doesn't feel anything at all.

I think the unspoken fact within the family is that we have all accepted one way or another and we deal with it as best we can.

Still, this forum isn't for airing other peoples issues is it? So we'll leave my mother there shall we?.

Thanks for all your support yesterday, it means a lot.