TN,

I am so sorry for your pain. I understand why you are hurting so much and it makes so much sense. You've not only lost your T, but I suspect this has reopened (forgive me if I'm wrong here) some old wounds as well. I still don't understand why he did what he did and I know that the not understanding makes it even harder.

I know that you don't see the point in telling newT, but is is possible that even just allowing him to be with you while you are in pain would help?

I'm not saying a book will solve your problems because if you've read my thread about my MIL giving me self help books you know how I feel about it, but have you read "The Journey From Abandonment To Healing" It really helped for me to read about the different stages of abandonment grief and to not feel quite so alone.

I'm sorry this is so hard. (((TN)))

(((((TN))))) ... It'll get better soon ... don't be so hard on yourself .... you've gone through something really difficult .... you've experienced a loss so great ..... and you've been handling it ... as well as you can ...

I don't think it's a bad idea to share it with your new T ....

TN,

For what's it's worth - which I'm guessing isn't much given your level of grief right now - you don't have to apologize to me for grieving here.

I don't have anything else to offer other than to say I hope something shifts for you. By that, I mean something internal that you're not even aware of, and I'm hoping such a shift will help you to the other side of this awful experience.

Russ

((((NT)))) there is nothing i could say that would ease your pain, i know. What happended to you is so awfull and complitly surreal... I simply cant imagine how it could happen. Its so easy to say that time will heal your wounds- and maybe it even feels more like a burden hearing that- i still think that the pain of this loss, and the grief-process your dealing with now, will ease with time. Time is on your side NT, and your newT, and all of us here on forum too. No replies here can offor more than just some words and support, but please feel free to keep venting and writing about this, i am sure that writing about this, is a very important grief-work.

All the best to you.

Russ:

quote:

For what's it's worth - which I'm guessing isn't much given your level of grief right now - you don't have to apologize to me for grieving here.

Russ thank you for saying this. It really helped to know this as I feel so guilty about dumping my grief here. I know this subject is very triggering for so many because I am living everyone's worst nightmare and I often feel as if I should take this horror and disappear. In some ways I think that is what I have tried to do in life... to disappear because I have been rejected and abandoned by the person who knew me best and I don't deserve to even be alive nevermind be normal and at peace. I have lost any sense of myself, who I was, who I am now, I feel as if I have disintegrated and all that is left are tiny pieces that don't fit together or make any sense.

Thanks for the link STRM. When I'm feeling stronger I will take a look at it. I think I'm still in denial because I cannot bear to read or hear anything that actually confirms to me that I have been abandoned and rejected. It's the banishment that hurts so much and the suddeness of it all occuring. Yes I know he brought up earlier that I needed a trauma T but this was something that came up now and then we if it would cause any disruption we would always be able to repair it. So I thought/felt that this was just another disruption and we would repair it and heal it and go on. But that last session being handed the list of names and told to go find a new T... and then not being allowed any time to process it... I think I'm still in shock 3 months later.

June I know you of all people understand the grief, shock and trauma of suddenly losing such an important person from your life and all the confusion as well ... trying to understand what happened and why and how to just keep standing. Thanks for your thoughts.

Liese, thanks for the support. I have not contacted newT because I just don't even know what to say to him and I doubt anything he can say would be helpful to me. It wouldn't matter what he said because HE does not hold that all powerful symbolic place in my head/heart that makes hearing his words important or powerful. It would just be like me talking to the mailman or the mechanic. It's the same thing.

Frog thanks for recognizing that this is part of the grief work. Time feels more like an enemy because the more time passes the further away oldT seems and THAT feel so frightening. Like I'm losing more and more of myself and any connection I have to anything meaningful and then I start to panic and feel hopeless. That is what time means to me these days. It's an enemy.

Right now I'm just really really tired and weary. I don't sleep much and I wish I could just find a little relief from the pain ... somewhere...

TN

TN ... I understand what you mean about not sharing it with your new T ..... It just wouldn't help or be meaningful ..... Russ seems to have a great understanding of grief .... He's very wise, listen to him ....

I always felt rejected by my family of origin and felt exactly the same way you do .... that they were the people who knew me best, so they should know my worth, right? It seems to make sense ..... But the more I learn about projection, transference, anxiety and depression and all the other crap, I'm starting to ask myself, "why am I giving them such power over who I am?" I'm not an axe murderer ... I care too much about hurting people's feelings that I've never dumped a friend, held onto friendships longer than I wanted .. maybe I've unintentionally hurt someone but it would have been on a very small scale compared to some of the wonton hurting I see other people do ..... So WTF is so fundamentally flawed with me???? Because I'm short? Because I have a pear-shaped figure (don't laugh at that one) ??? Because I'm right brained? Disorganized???? Because I wanted my father's love and he just couldn't give it to me? Not because I wasn't loveable, but because ... he just couldn't .....

I could find a million reasons out there why people don't like me .... and trust me, I have .... I found them all ..... anyway ... I know I can't convince you to feel better .... and I know that letting go is really hard ... so maybe you're not ready to let go yet ..... and that's okay too .... so I'll shut up now .....

quote:

Originally posted by True North:
I have lost any sense of myself, who I was, who I am now, I feel as if I have disintegrated and all that is left are tiny pieces that don't fit together or make any sense.

This is pretty much how I've felt for the past 2.5 years, and it's terrifying. But, I'm wondering if this process - as horrifying as it is - is what needs to happen. Maybe the part of us that is dying is actually a false self, and a more authentic self is trying to emerge. If that's the case, then it makes some sense that we're trying to cling on for dear life to that thing that we know of as ourself - the person we see in the mirror - because we don't know anything else.

I don't know if you've felt this way, but for the past 20 years I've felt that something about me was just off, just wasn't right, and I wonder if that's an indication that I've been living a life that's been made up of stuff I've internalized from my parents and family and not really me. So, maybe the person who you've lost wasn't really working for you in the first place. I'm not saying this is the case, but for me it is, at least to a significant degree.

Russ

quote:

I don't know if you've felt this way, but for the past 20 years I've felt that something about me was just off, just wasn't right, and I wonder if that's an indication that I've been living a life that's been made up of stuff I've internalized from my parents and family and not really me. So, maybe the person who you've lost wasn't really working for you in the first place. I'm not saying this is the case, but for me it is, at least to a significant degree.

Russ this really resonates with me. And yes I've always felt that things were not right or off... but that was before the past year when I really began to change into the person I should have been all of my life. I don't even LOOK the same, physically, as I did when I began therapy. I dress differently, my hair it totally different, I'm thinner, I just feel like I was morphing into the real me. I was back in college, being a way better parent than my parents were to me and I was just beginning to play again... with my son and in life in general. This NEW me is what I have lost. The me I was becoming through therapy and in working so hard with my T. He showed me who I really was and allowed that part of me to blossom and he was proud of me. I could see it in his eyes when I accomplished something. But I didn't have enough time to really settle into this new person or get really comfortable .. it was new but it felt good. And now I cannot bear to be that person any longer because she was the one who got rejected and abandoned. So I am trying to distance myself from who I became, yet it's difficult to go back to who I was and so I am now .. nobody. I'm stuck in some limbo place without any identity. The new me brings grief and the old me is lost.

It's a really horrible no man's land to be stuck in.

Thanks, Russ. It's always good to hear from you and I'm sorry you have had some of the same struggles. How is it going in T? Still with your regular T? Have you seen bakT?

Regards
TN

quote:

and I know that letting go is really hard ... so maybe you're not ready to let go yet .....

Liese... so true. It's really really hard. Like if I let go I will lose what is left of me. He was so much a part of me and maybe that's was wrong but it is what it is... I sometimes wonder what part of me (if any) has stayed within him and if he struggles with having me there too. We were so close and I can't have imagined everything... or maybe I did? Nothing seems certain any longer...

TN

quote:

he said I needed a "trauma T"

TN, your post makes me feel so sad for you. And don't ever apologize for grieving here, that is what this place is for. We offer each other support and comfort when we are feeling stronger or empathetic, and we greive when we are hurting. Please use us.

I have not gone through your loss, so I can't relate on that level, but I do have a trauma T. and he takes what ever shit I throw at him, I am truly amazed by his strength. So what I am saying, is I think your old T really wanted to help you- that is why he held on as long as he did. (Don't get me wrong- what he did was obviously not a good thing, but he knew he was out of his league with you and ultimately handled it very very badly. Having an attuned strong trauma T is a great thing- you just have to find one and here lies the hard part.

Lotsa hugs (((((((((TN))))))))))))))
and search for a strong one- but use the T you have in the meantime. Remember our T's represent others in our past, and we are reacting to the shit dealt us- that was beyond our control.
There is hope, there is always hope!

Hugs to you TN,
Mayo

quote:

Because I'm short? Because I have a pear-shaped figure (don't laugh at that one) ??? Because I'm right brained? Disorganized???? Because I wanted my father's love and he just couldn't give it to me? Not because I wasn't loveable, but because ... he just couldn't .....

Liese- we are Twins.

quote:

But I didn't have enough time to really settle into this new person or get really comfortable .. it was new but it felt good. And now I cannot bear to be that person any longer because she was the one who got rejected and abandoned.

TN- the first part of this is true. This is who you want to go back to. Listen to me: IT WAS NOT T REJECTING YOU, IT WAS T BEYOND HIS LIMITS IN BEING ABLE TO HELP YOU. GO BACK TO HER AND BUILD ON HER, GO BACK TO HOW YOU FELT THEN, AND KNOW THERE IS A T THAT CAN HELP YOU BUILD ON THAT BEAUTIFUL PERSON.

More hugs to you TN- I am reaching out in cyber space to hug you. I do know that pain. It was the T's lack of strength- not yours.

((((( TN ))))))

I’m so so sorry that you continue to struggle so painfully with the awful aftermath of your T’s betrayal. I so get what you mean about having lost that sense of your new self, the new TN who was stirring and growing and enjoying her sense of self as good - only to find youself shattered and crushed and wondering where she went, wondering whether it was all a lie and a fantasy and not real, that reality is how it always has been...

Your pain makes me think of a little fledgling bird, peeking over the edge of the nest flexing her little wings secure in the knowledge that one day soon she’ll be able to fly and suddenly the mother bird tips her out, before she can use her wings and instead of soaring off into the blue skies she crashes feathers fluttering and wings useless to the ground below.

This is the most painful part for me of your terrible story - that your wonderful growing new good sense of self was so tied up with T (quite naturally I believe) and that with his betrayal he’s shattered your new found belief in yourself, poisoned the belief in yourself you were beginning to acquire and made you experience it all as something unattainable, no longer possible for you. That how you always have been is how you always will be.

I’d like to say that that isn’t so and that the new you is still there, cowed under the weight of pain and betrayal and rejection - and yes in the long run she IS still there - but your T’s actions have undone so much of the good work that I think it will be a long time before you can trust again the good that you did experience with him. So saying that, I’m still sending you a positive message - that new TN is still inside you, wings crushed but not crippled, and that to get her flying again you need to bear with the unutterable pain and anguish you’re going through now, over and over - in the knowledge that one day you will become that new TN - and that she can exist independently of oldT. He shattered the mirror, but the you that he reflected is still there. It’s just impossible for you to feel it right now, understandably so.

Gosh I’m sorry I’m mixing metaphors and being a bit cloyingly poetic here, I hope though that the meaning of what I’m trying to say is coming through.

((((((( TN ))))))

LL

quote:

He shattered the mirror, but the you that he reflected is still there.

I get it LL- and so poetically stated.

quote:

But that last session being handed the list of names and told to go find a new T... and then not being allowed any time to process it... I think I'm still in shock 3 months later.

TN: Of course you are still in shock and it still hurts. It was a horrible way to handle things on his part. I hope that my post didn't come off as me thinking that a book would fix your grief. I know that it isn't even close to being that simple. I just know that I found some comfort in reading it for myself.

Thinking of you. (((TN)))

Thinking of you TN, and thinking it is very good that you share what you do here, in so many ways. Sharing the awful pain you are in is actually a gift to us, because you are letting us see the real you...I hope that you are able to get some sense of that even over the computer. It's so important.

I understand how it can feel like your sense of self has been shattered by what he did...but, I also think that you are not the sum total of the mistakes and flaws that your T made with you. You were hurt and utterly wrecked by what he did. But that is not you...does it make sense? You are still going to find yourslef, somewhere in the pieces that he left...and put the puzzle back together again, in time. I think your T was a good person- a really good person who messed up. I think it's really important to make that disticntion. He was not a total creep, I really can't think that- he was weak and had needs of his own that he didn't know how to meet properly. That doesn't make him a bad person. But, what happened to you, as a result of his weakness- was bad. I know it is tempting to demonize him, and I really admire you for not doing that...I truly beleive that a good man made the mistake of letting his emotions control him when it came to you...because you are so lovable.

I hope that it is ok, I say this...keep talking, TN. We are here and we care.

BB

TN,
Please don't apologize for venting. It's actually a good thing to do rather than keeping it all inside. I'm sorry you are in so much pain. There really isn't a time frame on grieving. I encourage you to reach out to your new T and hopefully things will get better with time.
Also, please know you did nothing wrong in this situation. Be kind and gentle to yourself.

PG

quote:

Originally posted by True North:
How is it going in T? Still with your regular T? Have you seen bakT?

Hi TN,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I'm still with my original T. Somehow I had a change of heart and, pretty suddenly, lost the desire to leave my T. I'm not exactly sure what changed, but seems to have shifted on that front. I think it may be finally dawning on me that the root of my problems - and the solution - neither begins or ends with my T.

FWIW, I don't think the real you is gone. Even if you tried to get rid of the real you, it wouldn't go away. It's like trying to control the weather. I don't know how you'll ultimately come to be peaceful with that new person, but it will happen somehow, eventually.

Russ

I didn't want to let this thread drop away without acknowledgeing all the wonderful, meaningful support and replies I received. I have not been focused enough lately to respond to my own topic and mostly because sometimes the pain is just too strong and I need to take a break or I'll go under.

Mayo thank you for your kindness and I do know on some cognitive level that my old T was out of his depth with regard to trauma but I felt that since the relationship in therapy is so important that we could make do and get past his lack of knowledge. In addition, I was under the impression he was listening to the CDs by John Briere on trauma that I gave him. Evidently, he listened to the first 3 or 4 (out of 8) and gave up. I guess it was beyond his abiltiies and he felt guilty and indadequate. Whatever the reason, there was no excuse for his terminating me in such a harmful and damaging way and then also refusing to see my son and leaving us without any therapy and he never gave me any referrals for my son. He just abandoned both of us.

NewT is a trauma T as he works with a lot of adults who have similar issues to mine and even worse. He has a LOT of years of experience and his own therapy too. He is not easily frightened and has a good sense of himself and of boundaries. The only problem I have with him is that he is not my oldT (and most of you would say that was a VERY good thing) and the attachment that I need is not there... at least not yet. I may be in too much pain and grief to allow anyone near me at this point.

As for findng my new self again or going back to what I started with oldT... I have to distance myself from that because it brings on overwhelming pain and grief. The memories are not comforting at all they are upsetting, painful, haunting and full of regret and even anger at being so betrayed and duped. So I cannot bear acknowledging that the new me I became exists. Right now I hate her very much as she got me booted out of my therapy.

LL I have missed you and I'm happy to see you back and back with a new and promising T who makes you feel good. I liked your analogy of the little bird. My T pushed me out with anger and total disregard for my safety and I was certainly not ready to fly and my wings are broken and I'm limping. Not sure if I will remain a cripple for the rest of my life... how can I ever really trust again? How can I get past this additional trauma when it was so damn hard just dealing with all the original trauma?

So far all I can talk about with newT is oldT and I'm sure he's getting real tired of it like everyone else around me which just makes me want to withdraw from life further. It's just too painful and hard to act happy and cheerful. It's exhausting. Hence, I go sit in parking lots around town where i can be alone in my car and grieve and cry without having to put up that false front all the time.

Relating to what you were saying LL is my sadness and grief over losing my therapy and all the good progress I made, all the optimism that I felt about therapy actually WORKING for me and seeing the results because I finally decided to trust my T and stop worrying about being abandoned and allow myself to grow and change freely. I just cannot see myself doing that again. He shattered that mirror and my self-esteem and trust in the human race (at least the part of it that contains therapists). I know you all have hope for me and maybe I just need to hold onto you all's hope and use that now as I don't have any belief or hope in myself at this point. Maybe one day I will again... I just don't know now.

Thank you LL. I always like reading what you have to say.

STRM... I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you or make you think that I didn't appreciate your suggestion of the book. I will take a look at it and I thank you for all that you offer me, most especially your kindness and understanding. It means a lot.

Beebs thanks for your post and the vote of confidence that I will put myself together again. I also appreciate you not demonizing my T and recognizing that he had good in him. And yeah he messed up big time. NewT said it was like I was working with a junior Therapist who had no supervision and that could be very risky and damaging. I have really tried to be forgiving of what he has done and I have tried so hard to extend the olive branch and work out some kind of peaceful and good ending for both of us but he has just compounded the original damage by refusing to even talk to me. He seems to be in some la la land where he believes I am fine and all has ended well.

I had to smile Beebs when you said he got emotionally involved because I'm so lovable. Thank you for that...truly. I have felt anything but lovable lately as I'm so short-tempered with my family and I am a zombie at work and so sad all the time. And yes, it's okay whatever you have to say to me. And I'm so thankful to have you here to help me.

Preppie Girl thank you for saying that there is no time frame for grief. Some days I see a bit of light and actually have some focus at work and this weekend I actually cleaned some of my house and cooked something. I have not been able to do anything like that since July. My poor dh has picked up all the slack.

Russ thanks for saying I could not get rid of the real me. When I find her again you will definitely know. Right now the only thing I can think of doing is to keep seeing newT and trying to find a way with his help to survive this and come out the other side.

Glad to hear you are with regular T still and that you have come to some new realizations. I hope things are going well and you are feeling better these days.

Update on newT.... I saw him Monday and we had a very good session. We spent a lot of time talking about vacation and how he sees it and handles it. He really recognizes how it impacts his clients and he gives a month notice and when he is returning and he is understanding of the need for transitional objects and contact via email. He told me oldT had no idea about how to handle this (I lived that). He also does not take more than a week at a time and he actually expects some of his clients to be angry at him when he gets back LOL. He says he understands how we feel.

We spoke about how I was doing a lot of my own therapy and how well I was able to take my t along with me on this journey. He always compliments me on things that I know or have done and he says my knowledge of therapy is "cool" and he likes it.

He allowed me to talk about the days of agony following that termination email and how I was so lost and trying to find a new T. I needed him to hear this. He always asks me such good questions and then offers relevant commentary. He said something nice about me and I looked down at the floor and he told me I cannnot do that... I need to look at him.. and I asked him why? He said because when I look down it 's like telling him I don't believe a word you are saying !! He also has a very good sense of humor and has already found things to tease me about which I like. I like when he's a bit playful like old T used to be with me. I think it shows how much he pays attention and how well he is starting to know me.

Another thing... I actually noticed what he was wearing. That is a big thing because I have not been "seeing" him if that makes sense. I have no memory of what he looks like or how he looked in session until Monday. I mean I do look "at" him but I don't see him... it does not register in my brain for some reason. Anyway, he looked very nice and I felt a bit of warmth for him and felt that he really did want to help me. He also offered me an appointment for tomorrow afternoon which I gratefully accepted. There is just so much I need to talk about including the fact that old T has not responded to newTs request for information on me plus a phone call. He has the letter for about 10 days now and no word from him. I just don't understand how he can ignore the request of another professional and colleague to help a patient. New T said he would let me know as soon as he heard anything. He is also going to provide a copy of the letter he sent.

I was telling a friend how I "saw" newT and remembered how he looked and it was scary and she told me that it was okay to like him and that it didn't mean I had to let go of oldT and those memories and I started to cry. I think that if I care about anyone else I will totally lose oldT and I'm terrified to let go even just a tiny bit because then everything disappears into thin air like it was all just a dream.

I'll keep you all posted on tomorrow's session.

Thanks for listening and being so supportive.
TN

Thank you for the update, TN...I've been wondering how you are doing the past couple days. I guess I have my answer, now, pretty shitty still, which is completley normal, considering...but I am sorry you are still hurting so much and for so long.

Looking forward to hear how your session goes tomorrow...

Many hugs,

BB

quote:

Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I'm still with my original T. Somehow I had a change of heart and, pretty suddenly, lost the desire to leave my T. I'm not exactly sure what changed, but seems to have shifted on that front. I think it may be finally dawning on me that the root of my problems - and the solution - neither begins or ends with my T.

FWIW, I don't think the real you is gone. Even if you tried to get rid of the real you, it wouldn't go away. It's like trying to control the weather. I don't know how you'll ultimately come to be peaceful with that new person, but it will happen somehow, eventually.

Russ

Oh boy I dont thisnk this was good for me right now- so confusing, but thanks Russ for your perspective. Of course I never thought of this before- and i know you probably have no idea what what I am talking about but - maybe later I can explain.
I sjut wish someone else could make this decision for me. Sorry for butting in without reading the thread.

oh - my name is on here I guess I did read it- am am not my self today.

quote:

He said because when I look down it 's like telling him I don't believe a word you are saying !! He also has a very good sense of humor and has already found things to tease me about which I like.

My T too. also- once I came in with sunglasses and wanted to keep them on, and he came over to me and gently took them off of me and explained something like that to me. Something like I don't have to hide.
I need the sunglasses today, I might cry for the first time. TN a am so so sorry for what your T did to you. Know you are so worth more than that.

TN,
This man sounds like the real deal. I am glad that you have a found a skilled therapist who sounds like they are capable to going where you need to go. I know that you are in unspeakable pain and you despair of a way out, I don't want to minimize in any way the very real pain you're in. But I believe that if there is a path for you beyond despair and back to hope, that this T would be able to walk with you.

And I would add to the voice of your friend. Love is not a zero-sum game. We do not have a set amount that needs to be divided up among those we love. We always have as much love as we need. So to let someone else in, to value them is not to reduce by one iota our feelings for anyone else. This T will NEVER mean to you what you're old T did. But that does not mean that he cannot come to be someone you value, and who affects you deeply.

It's really good to see you coming here to seek support, I hope you continue to do so. Let us know how it goes today.

AG

Just wanted to say TN and glad that your session went well with new T. It'll probably be a mixed bag for a while. 1/4 grief, 1/4 anger, 1/4 sadness, 1/4 happiness ....

I like him too. And I know it's hard to believe now, but maybe old T really did you a favor in the end. It doesn't sound like old T could take you where you need to go but new T can. Yes, I know it hurt like hell to get there to new T.

quote:

Originally posted by True North:
...and then also refusing to see my son and leaving us without any therapy and he never gave me any referrals for my son. He just abandoned both of us.

I have to say, this makes me want to punch this guy. For real.

Me too!!!!!!
Sorry TN- but what a jerk! What a sniviling coward of a man. You deserve much better!

quote:

I have to say, this makes me want to punch this guy. For real.

Aw, Russ...I kinda have to say, that it's nice to have a guy around on this site. For real.

Beebs