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15 replies

Overwhelming self-hatred

kashleykashleyMember
I've just gotten back from a session, and my self-hatred is in full swing. That's what it's been like these past few weeks. After every session, I feel this almost crippling self-hate, and I struggle to turn off my inner voice just so I don't have to deal with all of the contempt that I feel.

For about 3 weeks (maybe 4?) I've had sessions 2x a week. It seems kind of backwards, but I still can't get over the hatred I feel for myself in asking for two times a week. It kind of started out as a mutual thing between my T and me...I was clearly in distress, so she was assertive a couple times and went ahead and suggested it. Which is different than the norm for her, because she never really suggests anything like that, because I know she wants me to ask. Anyway, both this week and last week I have asked for a second session, and I feel so guilty for it. I've told my T several times, and she's reassured me each time. She says that so long as I find it beneficial and helpful, that's all that matters to her. She's asked me a few times, "You know I can say no, right?" But it doesn't matter. I still hate myself for it. I even hate that it's gotten easier for me to ask. Especially today, because I'm worried that I've inconvenienced her, because I only have a limited time frame that I can meet a second time, so I feel like I've put her in this tight spot where she's trying to accomodate me, but it's making things very hard for her. And I still asked?? That seems...unacceptable for me to do. I guess I'm just so scared that something I do will make her resent me, and asking for these more frequent sessions feels like a ticking time bomb.

It is our fall break this Thursday and Friday, although I'm not visiting home until later Thursday afternoon. So I'm meeting with my T on Thursday morning. I really think I would have waited until next week, except I feel a bit like I'm on some edge this week...I guess I also feel a little like a ticking time bomb. I'm finding myself so tired of everything, and I want to give up. I want to disappear. I didn't tell this to my T today...I often have a hard time bringing things up. But especially something like that, because I know it sounds suicidal, although I don't feel suicidal. I know I didn't tell her this today because of how it would sound, but I also know that she would believe me if I told her that I wasn't suicidal. I guess I'm afraid that she'll think I'm being dramatic, that I'm overreacting, and that I'm just saying these things for attention.

Anyway, I feel really guilty for asking for the second session for many reasons, but also because I asked for it and feel like I should have given my T an explanation as to why I feel like I need it. She doesn't know...and it seems like I so easily return to that smiling, seemingly "fine" person that my T might be thinking that I'm just being too needy for no good reason. In a couple weeks, my T will be gone for a week for her son's wedding. She told me a couple weeks ago that we could meet one of the other Ts in the office for just a minute or two so that I could put a name to a face and could call her if I needed to. Well, I met this other T today, and she was super nice. I seriously, seriously doubt I'd ever call her, though, because I can't even call my own T no matter how much she tells me that she truly wants me to call her if I need to. I feel ridiculous about my T thinking that I may need something like that (a backup T), because I feel like I shouldn't need any help. And I feel like I don't deserve it, because I can't admit to my T that I need or want help, or that I'm not sure how well I'll deal with her being gone. All of it feels forbidden and selfish.

Thinking of all of this, not just now but every time I think of any of this, makes my head feel under pressure and gives me a headache. The self-hate eats at my stomach and my chest and boils in my head. I wish I could tell some of these things to my T, but I just can't. It's this vicious cycle, because I'm scared that if I keep telling my T all of these self-deprecating things, she will get tired of hearing them and will get tired of me, too.

I'm sorry. I worry that I'll also make you all tired of me from my litany of insults I throw at myself.
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starfishstarfishMember
kashley

Oh kashley I am sorry that you are going through all these difficult feelings right now, that self-hatred runs really deeply doesn't it? Almost as if that is how we must feel as a response to asking for something for ourselves and addressing out own needs Frowner

But actually the oppposite is true - you are doing exactly what you need to be doing in asking for these extra sessions and your T is confirming this by being available to you. Kashley, if she did not think it was in your best interests or if it was inconveniencing her, then she would not be offering this. I am sure that you know this, no, I know you do Smiler, but it's sometimes hard to believe that it is ok for us to receive help in any way, because we wrongly feel we don't deserve it.

Please can you try to tell your T how you feel? I think that you seem to know that she will believe you that you're not suicidal, so she will then also probably undoubtedly know that you are not overreacting. And if she needed to know a reason for you asking for a second session kashley then she would have asked - my gut feeling is that she seems intuitive enough to know where you are, and meet that need. Try her out...nobody is tired of hearing your genuine hurts kashley, I'm really sure she won't be either.

I am so sorry that things feel so difficult. I am glad though that you have the offer of a back up T too, that maybe gives you a bit of a safety net if things get hard when T is away. There is no need to apologise here, just you
take care,

starfish
macmacMember
I don’t think I have any advice or, “do this and you will be cured!” (Wouldn’t it be awesome if life worked like that?) I can’t say for sure, but I think I’m starting to work though feeling so guilty for calling my T, asking for an extra session, or taking up too much of his time in general. I said that I don’t have any advice to give you, because I can’t say that I did anything in particular to stop feeling that way. Most of it I think came from finally believing what my T is telling me. Last Wednesday I decided to ask him for an extra session on Thursday, and it turned out to be one of my all time favorite sessions just because he seemed so happy that I was there… at the end he even said “I’m happy that you called me. I’m glad that you reached out, and found that there is someone here who cares about you.” He never says things like that!

There’s something that my T says to me that always pisses me off… It’s to keep doing what you’re doing. Keep working hard and you will get there. Most frustrating advice ever right?? But this is exactly what I want to say to you because I KNOW that you are working hard and you WILL get there. It’s a long hard road, but you’ll get there.
kashleykashleyMember
Sorry for the delay in responding.

Starfish,

Yes, the self-hatred feels like it's my own self-imposed punishment for asking for something. And then it seems like I double it up when I actually receive and accept what I asked for. It's frustrating, because it seems like I can know so many things logically, like I know..logically..that my T wouldn't offer something she can't/won't give and that she would ask me why I felt I need the second session if it were really a problem. But I just can't accept it on any other level, and all of that logic flies right out the window.

When I feel numb, like I do at the moment, it's almost like I can convince myself that I never felt the way I did before or that I was ridiculous for feeling that way, so I end up not telling my T. I'm going to really try to not let that happen. If nothing else, I know that I will really regret not telling her tomorrow before I leave to go home, and that may be enough to make me to spit something out.

STRM,

Yes, they are awful feelings aren't they? I'm sorry you're dealing with them too, but thank you so much for sharing, because it helps to know that someone else really knows what I'm talking about. And it helps me feel like maybe I'm not just making all of this up. A few weeks ago I asked my T if she believed the things I said, because even I rarely ever believe the things I say. And yes, it does help to know that I do have a safety net, even though I won't use it.

Mac,

Oh, you could make millions if you were able to sell an instruction manual that would explain something like that. I'm glad you were able to ask for the second session and that it turned out to be so great for you. And especially that you got to hear such great things from your T. Thank you for the kind words...I really appreciate it.

Just for a bit of a general update, I guess...Last night was a bit of a hard night. I wanted to desperately to get away from myself, like being in my own skin was almost more than I could bear. I ended up going on a long drive to nowhere and only went home once I was feeling kind of numb again. Sometimes I think that my urges to drive are like sad little attempts to run away from myself, but I always know I have to come back.

I just can't ever get over the feeling that nothing I feel is ever real or that I'm weak for feeling something or that I simply don't deserve to feel the way I do. And then everything gets so mixed up in my head that it seems like I need to just retreat, stay quiet, stay invisible. Then I get mad at myself for that, because then I'm too numb to tell my T any of this.. I entirely forget what I felt like before. If any of that made any sense. Anyway, thank you for listening, everyone. I don't really feel very coherent currently, so I'll probably bow out for the night. I may post an update tomorrow after my session, but please forgive me if I don't. A lot of times I feel scared to say too much.

Thanks again,
K
kashleykashleyMember
A brief update…

Well, I told my T about some of my feelings, and I'm glad I got it out. My T suggested a role playing type thing, where I talk to my emotional self, the part that is the target of my hate, and then switch spots and talk from my emotional self. Of course, the thought of that absolutely petrified me. She made sure to tell me that I didn't have to do it, and I didn't. But it was mainly because I felt out of touch with both of those parts in session and would have been pretending and almost guessing at what each would say.

I have 2 more sessions with my T before she leaves for a week… I'm probably going to have about an 11 day break in-between sessions which is the longest since her vacation back in July, and it was because of that break that things got so intense afterward. This session and the last session I found myself hesitating a lot more than usual, because I'm afraid to get into anything. I'm more nervous about this break than the last one, though, because there's going to be a few things going on at the exact time she's gone. Go figure, right?

I feel so guilty for being dependent on her, even though I know that I shouldn't. She told me in this past session that she talked to the backup T and she (the backup T) knew that it might be hard for me to call if I need to, so we could set up a time that the backup T would call me during the week. Honestly, the thought of that freaks me out so much…I guess it scares me, because it just screams that I have a need, and to have someone else fulfill it seems intolerable. Especially because, since this other T doesn't know me, it seems more unacceptable, because why would she help me if she doesn't even know me? I'm really hoping I can convince my T that I'll be fine so that we don't have to do that.

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks again for the support. You all are amazing.
kashleykashleyMember
Thank you STRM and SpaGirl for your support.

STRM,

I find myself wondering the same thing about leading parallel lives. Pretty funny in a very non-humorous way, if you know what I mean! I'm sorry you don't like your backup T...I think, even though I know I would never call her myself, that I am slightly comforted by the fact that my backup T seemed so nice and approachable. It just helps. But, if I'm remembering right, didn't your T kind of spring the backup T onto you in a very less than helpful manner?

I don't know if I could make a thread for my T's vacation...I'll have to think about it.

SpaGirl,

Thank you for the quote. It's a good reminder, although I still find myself unable to believe it's true for me. But it kind of sums up a lot of what my T has said.

I had a session today and my T said that she didn't want to set an agenda for the session, but she wanted to talk about how in the last session it looked like I had "imploded" and looked like I was painfully suffering. She said that the light I normally have, even in the midst of struggling, was gone. She told me that she'd only ever seen me like that once before and asked if I was aware of how I acted and if I realized that it was different from how I normally am. Of course, I had no clue that there was such a drastic difference...it seems kind of crazy that there can be such a change and I didn't even really notice it. I told her that I couldn't even remember how I felt in that session, that the only thing I knew for sure was that I was there.

We talked a little bit about some of the darker thoughts I have and that have been coming up lately. One of the biggest things that we've pinpointed is that I tend to have those thoughts specifically as a 'solution' to not have needs. It feels like I'm on the brink of something, like breaking down for the first time in therapy. But then I feel guilty for feeling and being this way so soon before my T leaves. I have another session on Wednesday, and then my T will be gone all next week. So it will probably be about a 12 day break. I don't know what to think. I am a little scared, but mostly about how I'll react. I didn't tell my T this in session today, mainly because of the break coming up, but I also feel like I'm on the brink of breaking and having more suicidal thoughts. I'm scared of that happening and dealing with it alone. It would take moving Mt. Everest to get me to call the backup T, no matter how nice she is.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. I'm in a bit of a weird place right now...I almost feel like someone is telling me that I need to be quiet now, be smaller, be invisible. I apologize for really barely posting on anyone else's thread (both within the last couple days and from now on for a little bit), though I am reading everything. Just not in a mindset where I feel I can be of any help to anyone. I've got several things going on that will take up a bit of time, so I'm not sure how much I'll be around other than a few minutes here or there.

Thanks again, all.
J jillMember
kashley, just following this, and hate the pain that that self hatred takes on one's self. i am juggling it right now, too. and what is so frustrating to me, is i can't seem to get t to believe i really feel that way. t1 didn't take me seriously about that either.

i admire that you shared the feelings, and i hope that helps get t into alignment with where you are right now.

i need to really put it out there, myself.

massive hugs your way...too, i don't like to be 'cajoled' from feeling the reality of what i feel. is that some of it for you?? it is like they look at me and can't possibly believe i really feel this way. DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT!!! it is so embarrassing to state it, why can't they just believe it, despite all my walls and poses, that, THAT is the core of my 'deal'....

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

keep writing how this develops for you! you are helping others with this, as, i dunno, just good to know i am not alone here. jill
kashleykashleyMember
SpaGirl, STRM, Jill - thank you.

Thank you for telling me how you read into the session, STRM. I know dissociation can pop up in various forms...I've been able to recognize it most of the time, but I also think that there might be some element that I'm so used to living with that I don't even recognize as being different. It also kind of makes sense when I think about some of the things my T was telling me in my last session...they all sounded like grounding techniques, learning to be more aware of my surroundings and how I experience it. A few sessions ago, I was pretty dissociated, and my T mentioned something about the BASK Model of Dissociation. I think I may have learned about it before, but I keep forgetting to look it up and now that I'm thinking about it I don't have time. Anybody heard of it? My T rarely ever drops terms or anything, which I mostly appreciate, but sometimes I just want to know. Anyway, that was really the first time she had ever mentioned dissociation, but I knew about it before both from studying it in school and from reading on here. I just wish I knew why I dissociate.

Jill - I'm sorry you're dealing with this pain, too. I think it's a little bit of the opposite for me, as in, I pretty much never believe what I tell my T, but I know she believes it. I know that, because I told her one time that I don't believe anything that comes out of my mouth and I asked her if she believed what I said. She said that she did, and if I needed to have the knowledge that she believes me as a way of eventually making it true for myself, then that was fine. I also know that I appear emotionally pretty well put together...and I'm aware of how drastic of a difference there is between the person that everyone else sees versus some of the things I think and feel (at least I think they are real things that I think and feel...). Again, I know my T believes that I mean the things I say, no matter how contradictory it appears on the outside. But even with that knowledge, I am still convinced that she's just going to one day decide not to believe me and tell me that I'm making things up, that there's no way I can appear so put together if I'm not actually put together.

I've had kind of a hard time since my session. I'm not in any place of immediate danger, but I have been struggling quite a bit. I keep berating myself over and over for feeling that way. I just can't think of anything I feel as being legitimate. Making it worse is that I'm thinking about not only this break from my T, but also over the holidays. My own time away (my T is up where I go to school, which is 2 1/2 hours away from home) is going to make that difficult - when I was in therapy with my other T last year, I had a 6 week break in between sessions. No way I can do that this year. I can't think about that right now. Ugh, I'm finding it so hard not to hate myself for all of this. Or, I'm finding it hard to stop hating myself for it.

Ok, phew, I've taken up too much time writing this and am about to be late for a class. I can't thank you all enough for your support. I would be in a much worse place without you all.
starfishstarfishMember
Kashley

How hard for you - it feels like you are caught between these two dilemmas: to tell T about what's on your mind, what's real and coming up for you, (whether you understand it or not); against the fear that if you open up you are going to get hurt, by yourself or by your T not being there when you need her and reciprocating earlier previous pain.

I can imagine how that dread of breaks coming up in holiday time must feel really scary too - I know that feeling very well...part of me understands and wants to be self sufficient, part of me feels really needy and very vulnerable without T there to fall back on if I start remembering. It must feel hard to be so far from your T when you are at home as well - that must feel even more isolating for you.

I wish I could say something that might help you stop hating yourself for what are real and understandable feelings in your circumstances. Are you able to talk to T about the dissociation? Sometimes the act of more understanding gives us empowerment and strength to carry on ...and maybe might allow yourself to be kinder to yourself too. I really hope so kashley. You have nothing to blame yourself for.

Take care,

starfish
J jillMember
kashley, your quote..I also know that I appear emotionally pretty well put together...and I'm aware of how drastic of a difference there is between the person that everyone else sees versus some of the things I think and feel (at least I think they are real things that I think and feel...). Again, I know my T believes that I mean the things I say, no matter how contradictory it appears on the outside. "

..makes me realize how true this is for me too. my t told me that i 'walk the walk but don't talk the talk', meaning that i do and act and SEEM so together, but my self talk and description of myself to others is so low. that it is usually the other way around for people (((how OFTEN have i heard that about me!!)). that most people are all talk and no action, i 'implement' well, but berate myself to myself and anyone else that will listen.

i had a major 'episode' last night, down to the five year old and told my husband i wished i had never been born. really, really low. also, i always have this 'powerless' passive aggressive way of being, not that i wanted to k. myself, but that i wished i had 'passively' never been born. anyway, i shouldn't ramble on my deal, but, thank you, kashley, in this, you have helped me clarify some things for myself.

i hope you are doing better, and i empathize with you in this tough stretch.

((kashley)) jill
kashleykashleyMember
Starfish, Jill, STRM

Thank you. I'm not really in a mindset right now to reply to everything, but I did read it all and I value everything you all have said. Jill, I'm sorry that you experienced such a bad episode the other night. I hope you are doing a little better now.

A few weeks ago I went through a stretch where I was having trouble remembering what day it was - almost missed a few classes/meetings. During a smaller part of that stretch, it also seemed like the time on the clock was meaningless, like they were just numbers. I had to stare at it for a minute and think hard about what those numbers meant. Well, yesterday I told my T that it didn't feel like I had just been in there on Monday, and I guess she heard some buzz words that sounded like what I was experiencing before, so she asked me if I was forgetting the days and times again. I actually have been, the past couple days. This started a longer conversation, all of it really sounding like it was a conversation about dissociation, though my T never used that word.

At the end, she said that she'd been thinking about our endings in sessions and wondered if it would help me to take some time, like 10 minutes, at the end to talk about something like the weather to come back to the present and get ready to 'go back out in the world'. I did dissociate a bit toward the end of the session yesterday, but it doesn't really happen in every session. But I guess it makes me wonder if my T notices it happening more often? I'm not sure.

Since we don't have a set schedule for sessions, I didn't know when our next one would be. Well, since our schedules conflicted we couldn't schedule another session until the Wednesday after she gets back, which is two weeks from yesterday (13 days as of today Frowner). I still can't get over just despising myself for so much of what I'm feeling. I know how counterproductive it is, but it's like I won't allow myself to just accept my feelings, especially my feelings about this break.

I'm sorry for being completely useless in supporting everyone else consider how much support I've gotten. Ok. I feel like I just need to shut up now and crawl back into the hole I've been in the past couple days.
starfishstarfishMember
kashley hi,

quote:
I feel like I just need to shut up now and crawl back into the hole I've been in the past couple days.


Please don't...what you have posted is very real and understandable too. The missing time thing has happened to me and I know to others here as well, for me it is to do with dissociation....I once bought a jacket I had no recollection of ever doing; was really surprised to see it hanging up! (Fortunately it was quite nice Smiler)

Dissociation can feel really tricky to accept and discuss, but it's just a coping mechanism that your rain is using to protect you from other maybe more difficult memories or feelings. I was convinced (and still am smetimes) that I am going mad. Ca you talk about these fears with T? For me hearing T's explanation of what I am experiencing and having her normalise it in the context of a natural reaction to what my experiences were, really helps me. And yes, I still need masses of reassurance which she understands ....I don't think I've got through a session recently without asking her if she thought I were mad.

And yes, the endings of sessions can be really hard if you've been dissociated...so difficult to come from that deep intensity to everyday reality again. So my T often takes time at the end for general chit chat, from my answers and the time it takes me to connect, she can make sure I'm ok to leave and fully connected again. So maybe give it a try and see if it helps.

Aw kashley, 2 weeks can feel an age when you are in a difficult place, sometimes there is a real need to talk to T just for clarification of what you are feeling and why. I guess that feeling of despising yourself runs really deep and is hard to change ...what would you feel if another here was to pst similarly about their feelings, you would probably long to convince them that they were certainly not despicable and want to help and support them (like we do for you)....it's just that we are always so much harder on ourselves aren't we? We have a different rule book for ourselves than for others Frowner

Keep posting kashley, especially over this 2 week break. Sending you warm thoughts and a hug,

starfish
kashleykashleyMember
Starfish,

Just wanted to thank you for your support. I think I'm going to make another thread that's a little more relevant to my T's time away. Just thought I'd tell you that I so appreciate you sharing your experiences with dissociation. In a lot of cases, I think labeling stuff doesn't help a ton, but I feel like it does with this, for me at least. And it's odd, because every time I notice something new that seems so weird that it must mean I'm either completely crazy or completely fine, well, they all seem to be stacking up in the dissociation category.

I have asked my T before, fairly early on in my sessions with her, what it was that I was experiencing. I thought I knew, but I wanted to hear it from her. She only said that she had theories, but she didn't want to say anything prematurely. Then, a few sessions later, she mentioned dissociation, but then she almost immediately told me to forget that she had said anything, that she shouldn't have said anything. Then a few more sessions later, she mentioned the model of dissociation. But she still hasn't flat out said that what I'm experiencing is dissociation. A lot of times I wonder if it's because she doesn't know why I dissociate. I don't have any traumas in my past, at least none that I know of or would consider traumatic. But there is a lot that I don't remember, too. Mainly things from at home - I can remember more about the times I spent riding horses or in school. A couple months ago, I shared with my T a memory I had from when I was in kindergarten, and I remember doing a certain thing that could possibly be considered self harm. I've only told my T a little about it, because I'm so ashamed, both that I did it at all and how I did it...She's brought it up a few times since then to see if I was ready to say more, but I haven't been, and she completely respects that. It's the ambiguity about wondering whether I was really doing that in response to something in my environment or if I was just a weird kid that wanted attention that keeps me from thinking that maybe there was something that was causing me a great deal of stress then. But even when I tie that together with other things that, when looked at together, are indicators of some sort of early psychological stress or something, I refuse to accept it and then go on this angry diatribe directed at myself for being the way I am and having no other reason for it than just being born this way.

Anyway, I've gotten off on a major tangent. Thank you for encouraging me to reach out. I'm going to go try and make a thread before I lose the bit of courage I have at the moment.

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