(((SG)))

I wish I had something smart, witty, and potentially healing to share. I don't.

But your post touched me deeply. I (we all?) know the feeling of overwhelming shame and how crippling it is. I don't understand it yet, but I recognize that pervasive ever-present feeling.

It's awful. Just plain awful.

(ok, so this was a pretty useless reply...argh. sorry.)

((SG)) Thinking of you as I know any type of attachment is hard to deal with--it doesn't matter who the attachment figure is.

((((((SG)))))

the whole situation sounds incredibly painful, from you t leaving, you running into the wife, and facing the likelihood that you will be running into your ex-bf, his wife and kids for many years to come Oh gosh I hate to lay it all out there Like that and overwhelm you. But you r dealing with a lot right now


I am sorry that you haven't been able to find a t who deals with attachment issues. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved feelings re your ex that you need help resolving. With someone you can trust and who is not going to hurt you again. R there many t's in the area where you live? Is it possible to find one who works with attachment?

You live where you live and you have as much right to live there as he does. And I hope one day you can believe that and be able to hold your head up high. His wife is not better than you.

Xoxoxo
liese

(((hemlock))) Please, your reply was not useless at all...thank you for saying you were touched by my post. It means a lot to me even that you responded to say you understand the feeling of shame. Thank you.

(((Broken))) Thank you for understanding, I really do appreciate it.

(((Liese))) Thank you It is painful, and made more confusing by the unusual history and connections we have in this town. It is hard to find someone who understands attachment issues in the way I'd like them to understand. The couples T I found a while back had attachment issues listed as one of his specialties, but his focus was really on correcting attachment issues as they were happening, with children...he tried to help with what I gave him but really didn't know how. I am asking a lot, in that this attachment is really, really old...but inside me, it's like it just happened yesterday. When you say his wife is not better than me...I hope I've not given the impression that she thinks she is, because that's not it at all...she's never been anything but nice to me...but the thing is, she really, really IS better than me. It's not just my perception. Part of the history I'm referring to is that I used to work with her, so I know what she's like...and over the years, my mother and siblings have remained in touch with them (not so much more recently, but for a while) so I KNOW she's "better" in lots of ways...she's strong, and vibrant, and beautiful, and super nice, a great mom and wife...and next to her, I just feel like a toad. I just don't know if I can bear to run into them this much or for them to "see" me...I don't know how to explain it...I mean, I love my H and kids and am proud of them...but I am ashamed of me and how I have failed...argh, it is so hard to explain this. Anyway, thank you...I hope one day I can just feel like we're all "okay" no matter whether I'm around them or not.

(((deepfried))) The situation you described at work sounds absolutely awful. I am so sorry you were treated so badly, and THEN had to endure being in such close proximity to her AND the "other" woman. I am thoroughly impressed at how you overcame it and are now okay enough to talk to your ex. Resolve...that is exactly what I want to feel. I don't feel madly in love, or hatred/scorn...it feels much more like overwhelming sadness and despair and just crushing disappointment that he's lived his life without me...he was my first love, we met under kind of a crisis condition when we were teenagers...and were given lots of time together and lots of leeway...I really believed we would be together forever, and so did he, at the time...but I've just never been able to get past the fact that he changed his mind...I think I must have transferred something onto him, an attachment that really belonged to my mom, but was never able to attach to her because of her drinking and her treatment of me...which is why it seems that there's just no resolving this...because I will never, ever get that love from him again. And I'm not equating guilt with shame...at first I was calling it guilt, but that can't be right because I'm not "guilty" of having done anything wrong...it feels much more like shame...monte hit the nail on the head below with her rephrasal of how it feels (see, this is how I was supposed to be, etc...). And yes, I do feel VERY weak and incapable and bad for still having these issues...it just feeds the shame all over again and keeps cycling. The part you said about just going to the same place as him, even if I don't actually see him, knowing that I "could" is triggering all by itself...yes, exactly.

(((Monte))) Thank you. You are so right...that longing is always there no matter how much I try to deny it...just like that constant hunger pang, just like that nagging headache on a lovely day. And yes, you are exactly right...it IS that longing for emotional security and sense of value. THAT is what I put on him...I had it as long as he loved me...and when he stopped, the emotional security and sense of value went out the window...and it hurt SO MUCH. And even though it's been SO long, and SO much has happened that should override those messages...when I run into him, or her...all the loss gets triggered again...and it might as well have happened yesterday.

quote:

And his wife...it must be something like, "See,see?...that is how good I should be...look at all the things I am not...no wonder I am unhappy, I don't have the right qualities..."

YES!!!! That is it, EXACTLY. I just want to crawl in a hole. And BTW, it's not about ANYTHING she's doing...she's very nice. Which just makes me want to crawl in the hole that much more.

As for the need to "dig", I think you are very right. I love the work you've been doing with your T, but I think finding those kinds of T's is very hard, at least in this area. I have been searching again, but haven't found anything close by that seems promising enough to try. There was one whose bio sounds very much like what I'm looking for, but he's almost a hundred miles away, so it really wouldn't be practical. But I'll keep looking.

Thanks for all the support, everyone. I appreciate it very much. Been crying again this afternoon. The prozac seemed to be helping, but the last week or so the tears are breaking through again. I want to ask my husband if we can move to a different town. I asked him once before, a couple of years ago, but he didn't take it all that seriously. Maybe he would now. We're going to move there eventually, anyway, because he'll inherit his family's farm when his mom dies. So it would make sense to move to that town early. His mom would love it, too.

Love,
SG

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
...There was one whose bio sounds very much like what I'm looking for, but he's almost a hundred miles away, so it really wouldn't be practical. But I'll keep looking.

SG, you might want to e-mail/call this T who is 100 miles away, confirm his approach to attachment injury in adults, and then ask if he knows of a T closer to you that practices in a similar manner. A hundred miles is far for you to drive but might not be too far outside the radius of his professional contacts. It's worth asking him to dig through his rolodex.

Your experience is so painful. I hope you can find somebody to guide you through this.

That is a really great idea, Hemlock. I just might do that. Thank you for the suggestion.

Hi SG... I'm sorry you are suffering so much with regard to the exBF and continue to see him and the family which makes you feel ashamed and not good enough. I really do understand the kinds of feelings this evokes. I ran into these feelings in two places. One with my oldT...I was SO attached to him and I had to deal with seeing his wife almost everytime I was there and I had to watch them interact and see how they shared everything including their work. I also had contact with his young son and saw them together as a family. His wife would evoke the most horrible feelings in me... some of it was the way she behaved towards me in the beginning which got my hackles up and the other reason was because I saw her as so much more attractive, thinner, more athletic, more accomplished and sharing a vocation with him. She came from this perfect family and grew up in one of the best towns in the U.S. She had everything that I did not have ... including him. It made me feel like I didn't even have the right to talk to him and the attachment was such a struggle because why would he want someone as disgusting and horrible as me being attached to him. And in the end... you know what happened... he left me and it took a lot of time and work for me to understand that I am a better person than he was and that his wife was not all that wonderful either. Of course, I don't have much chance of running into them ever as they live in another town but seeing him recently woke up all those painful feelings again.

The other time was when I attached very strongly to someone who was not a T. I didn't even understand what was happening and what these crazy feelings for him were. When I tried to talk to him about how I was feeling, he fought with me and then he also abandoned me for some years. We still see each other occassionally but it's still hard for me and now he has a live in girlfriend and, like you, I tell myself... see that is what you are NOT and what you were missing and so he found so much more than you could ever be with her. If anyone around me ever mentions them it's like a stab in the heart and so I know I'm not truly over him either.

I agree with how Monte (she is wise) described it. I know that hunger pang that is never satisfied. I hope that I will be able to work on this with my new T and that I can battle through the shame to do that digging that needs to be done.

I can write here that you are enough and probably more than enough and that his leaving you way back when had to do more with him than with whatevery you feel you are lacking...but telling you this would not change what you feel inside. That is where the digging comes in.

As for T's... I just want to mention that even though you say you are not attached to this T don't downplay the very important role she had in your life for a long time and I hope you will say everything that you need to in your last session with her and that it goes well for you. I don't understand why she has no references though.

As for the T search... where are you looking for T's? Psychology Today's list? The phone book? I almost did not decide to go see my current T. He is not really listed anywhere because he does not need new clients. He is also the T of a co-worker and the way she described him I thought he was CBT and I really did not hold out any hope that he could help me. I remember telling this to my sister one night when I was in deep despair. She "made" me call him and leave a message. It was almost midnight! He called me the next day at 7pm. I had given up he would call me. But we had an amazing 10 minute conversation and I understood that he understood attachment, trauma and how awful a bad termination was. So I went to see him and stayed ever since. BUT... I almost wrote him off.

I would call any T that is near you and ask for that free phone interview and then decide. And you can also ask each one if they could refer you to someone who specializes in attachment and trauma.

You may decide to move away but then the attachment to old BF remains unresolved. You can only bury things for so long. As they say "whereever you go, there you are".

Don't know if I'm just rambling here but I hope this helps in some way. I wish you the best in your session tomorrow and in your search for a T who is a good fit to do the work you need to do.

TN

(((TN))) Thanks, TN. I am sorry you have suffered these kinds of feelings with Old T and also with your other friend. You really do understand from experience, I know. I really admire your persistence in finding the T you have now and the work you are doing with him. I wish I could find a T like him around here (or Monte's, or AG's). I've used all the search engines I can find on the internet (psychology today's list was one of them). I don't really know anyone else around here who's in therapy, so I'm not too hopeful about getting a personal recommendation like you did. But thank you, I'll probably end up doing as you suggest and just start calling around. The thought of doing that, of having to explain everything all over again, just makes me really tired...but I just have to do it anyway. I don't know why my T doesn't have any recommendations. I do appreciate the work we've done together, though. I'm thinking tomorrow will go just fine. Thank you for everything -

SG

((((SG))))

I don't have anything to add on top of all of the wisdom that has already been shared. I just thought I'd throw in that my T isn't in any of the search engines either. I was lucky enough to get a referral from my first T, but I was wondering if you have any mental health clinics in your area? You could possibly ask them if they have a list of therapists in the surrounding area that they tend to recommend. Also, sometimes family doctors may have recommendations.

Do you think you can ask your T for her progress notes and such? A new T will probably still want you to start from the beginning (I know how hard that must be...I can't imagine), but it might help just to know that the new T knows a little bit already.

Anyway, sorry if none of this is helpful..I'm just so sorry for the pain you're in. Shame is one of the worst feelings.

Hello, SG! It is lovely to see you posting. I feel so bad for you about the sadness coming back, and that the prozac's effect seems to be dying out. And that your T is leaving...and the fall is looming...oh SG, you have so much to deal with right now. Honestly I wouldn't give up hope that you can find a T who will accept all your (very legitimate) feelings about your old BF. That's why they call them "unresolved attachment issues." SG, I have been very reluctant to post anything much positive about my experiences with Cowboy T so far, because of my still huge attachment feelings for my T- but I want to tell you that for sure, he is helping me. Today we had a good session, and I *finally* talked about my T! And it led into some actual talking about past stuff...and...he is good. I'm not saying that to hurt- but to inspire you. And honestly, he is not anybody that I thought would be able to help me- I was just kind of messing around, trying a couple T's, just to see if I could get some help. But as it turns out, he's really smart, and very accepting of where I am at. I really appreciate him. I think, no I really *believe* that you could find a similar T. The problem is finding the energy to do it, when depressed. I met with three different T's before I settled on working with him (I'm still saying "for awhile" since I'm not pable to let go of guru T) but he has been great. I think it might be a matter of just forcing yourself to go through the motions of finding a T, no matter how much you are judging yourself while doing it. I judged myself really harshly for needing therapy still, after two years of therapy with a reputable T. I'm not saying that you are- but might be doing the same thing. "I should be better by now" and "I shouldn't feel this way anymore" is what I am hearing in your post. But- you are entitled to your feelings- all of us are. Not "even" the old BF, but *especially* the old BF. and of course there is nothing wrong with the way that you feel. It just is what it is- you are grieving, a very long, painful grief. And it's awfully painful, which I feel so, so bad for you for. But I also think that the healing you are seeking might sneak in really slowly, and that you may not notice it happening- with the right T. You might wake up and feel just a little better, a little less pain, a bit of joy- and find that you are so accustomed to the pain that you actually may fight the unfamiliar good feelings! But gradually, with the right T, may learn to let them come in.

I don't think it is at all odd or wrong that you still long for the ex BF. I think it is perfectly natural. I can't imagine a time when I will not long for my T. I hope so much that the shame that you are feeling about it, and about your very lovely self- will soon abate. You are the farthest thing from a toad that exists, and- I cannot accept that anyone- anyone- is "better" than you are.

I'm with Monte- I don't think that just "counting your blessings" is necessarily the answer to this old wound. In fact it may be a way to enforce the shame...as in "I shouldn't be unhappy- I shouldn't be having these feelings after all these years- I should be counting my blessings, working on my marriage...should, should, should." (not to negate the value of marital counseling- not at all) But...I do believe that when we work on ourselves and our deep wounds individually, we actually *are* working on our marriages. We are working on healing at least 50 percent (plus grace) of our marriage...that's a pretty big percent!

I'm so glad that you have had this time of respite and being understood to some extent with your T...I'm also deeply sorry that she is leaving. The work you are doing with her was clearly not finished, but then...when are we ever done working on ourselves...it's the level of pain that has me concerned, and I'm thinking that you seeking therapeutic support when your T leaves is a good idea. I have to tell you to, to, when everyone on here encouraged me when I left my T, to find someone new to help me with the pain and the issues which keep breaking through... I know somewhat, how it feels to be "therapized." It's like you may be worried that if you are honest about everything that has transpired the T will think you are just a person who hops from therapist to therapist...rather than a person seeking healing? (If you are like me, that might be the judgement inside...)But that is a lie. Therapy is something that we spend a great deal of money and effort on, in trying to know ourselves and find the healing for our relationships as well. And it is no easy, to find a good therapist and a good fit! I encourage you to find a therapist who is trained in either Affirmation Therapy or deals with unresolved attachment issues...or, you might find one who deals in neither, but who "gets it." It may help you with this. But- I also think that there is no perfect therapist...I know very well, that you know this, but I think it's important to highlight here, because we tend to hope for the ideal when we are very badly hurt, and find it difficult to accept the less than ideal. I find this tendency very much in myself anyway. I'm certainly not saying that this is the case with you, but I think that Jones on here once told me once that we can find a different type of healing from many different people, and I never forgot that.

It is so nice to see you post! I've really missed you, SG.

Much love,

BB

Sometimes I wish we could post an advertisement for what WE want in a therapist and they all read them and then come to us. Like an ebay for therapy.

You know -
* required an experienced female, psych for long term female agedxxx for help with attachment issues, childhood neglect, abuse, PTSD, SU Ideation. Required to have qualifications in x, y and z. etc. Please contact me on xxxx if you are suitable.

and then WE can choose.

((((SG))))

I just wanted to add that I too have a history in my hometown but first I fled for 10 years. And when I came back, I thought I felt good enough about myself in order to face all those old feelings of shame. But I wasn't. (yeah for therapy) The upside for me is that none of the people I was involved in back then live around here anymore. I did run into the dad of my best friend from high school a couple of times a few years back and then actually saw her at our high school reunion. Whenever I saw the Dad, he would say to me, L is coming into town this weekend - as if I should call her and see her. I wanted to tell him that his daughter didn't want to be my friend anymore but of course didn't say anything. When I saw her at the high school reunion, she came up to me and said, I didn't call you because what do you say to someone you haven't talked to in 20 years? I was so mortified. I knew the Dad was probably saying the same thing to her, I saw Liese, call her. I was thinking that he told her that I wanted to see her, which was so far from the truth. It was all really painful and triggering so I can only imagine that the stress of seeing your ex-bf more frequently must be 100-fold of what I experienced because my ex-bestfriend lives in another state and I don't have to face that anymore. Not to mention, that I wasn't involved with her romantically and so don't have to deal with the wife and kids.

I do have to tell you, though, that becoming attached to me T has helped A LOT. Of course it was terrifying, etc. and took a really long time. But when I'm with him, I actually feel like a normal person with worth. And hopefully that feeling in me will grow and transfer to other situations and eventually I'll be able to build a new life that I FEEL really good about. The old stuff will be there but maybe I will have more compassion for myself and be able to forgive myself. And, like BB, I tell you this also to inspire you to look for that therapeutic relationship. I can see and feel the difference in my life already although I am far from where I need to be.

SG, I don't know what your *crimes* are ... but if you are anything like me, your only *crime* was in wanting to be loved. And once you can truly see what you didn't get when you were little and what you really needed and have compassion for yourself, you might be able to let go of some of the shame. Still working on it myself ... so ....

(((((HUGS)))))

Liese