That is a tough one, DR.

Personally I would think that if she's not able to understand and respect what you need to function in life, then maybe she's not ready to be in a relationship with you Some people have a hard time putting themselves in another person's shoes.

the challenge is BLT, that when i say look i need this she says im not taking her need for financial independence seriusly. when i say this is not negotiable she says im not being flexible.
so yes she cannot put herself in my shoes. and she thinks i cannot myself in hers.
i wish there were a way to solve this. we both want to be together.

I just fail to see what YOUR therapy has to do with HER financial situation if you're neither married yet nor sharing finances. Until you are committed in some way, your life is still your life, not hers. You are not obligated to consider her in all of your decisions.

Once you get to a higher level of commitment, like marriage, then it is true that you have to take each other into account. Since therapy is so important for you, I don't think I'd really consider carrying on a more committed relationship with anyone who doesn't support it. It would be too impossible to work out, I think.

yes. i see what you are saying. makes perfect sense.

any ideas on how to address this?
i think saying support it or this wont work it an ultimatum.

so im wondering how to put this out there without being threatening.

perhaps say look this is one of the most important things in my life, in order for us to move to a more serious relationship, this has to be resolved and that involves you being more accepting of it.

but that seems like an ultimatum too. hmmmmm.

Is there some reason you don't want to give an ultimatum? I mean, if having therapy is really more important to you than this relationship, then the relationship is going to fail one way or the other if she won't support it anyway, right?

the reason is that when i gave one last night i said i need you to support this or this wont work.
she said but youre not supporting my need to be with a partner who is financially secure (i already have some debt and paying for treatment prevents me from climbing out of it quickly).
so i feel like my saying support this or we cant be together will bring out in her a desire to say well support me in my financial needs or we cant be together.

another reason is taht right now im with a therapist who is not costing me much. i just started. so i feel like it may not be an issue. but then again, she is balking at the future prospect of my paying for therapy, the idea of it bothers her...even though its not even happening now.

so isnt an ultimatum unfair? she isnt giving me one. she is just saying this is really important to me, etc. but she did say at one point if you decide to pay for treatment then i will need to make a decision.

DR, only you can decide what YOUR bottom line is. If push came to shove, would you reduce the amount of therapy you are doing if it were the only way to save the relationship? Or would you continue therapy even if it meant losing her?

Hi daRock...

What worries me is that she seems to be putting her need for financial security above your need to be well. That seems a bit shallow in some ways or maybe her need for financial security to live in the way she is accumstomed is important to her sense of self.

There is another angle here I would look at... I wonder if her feelings about therapy are related to some unresolved issues she has with her father being a P? It may be worth discussing with her.

I wish you the best with your new T and in starting this new journey in therapy.

TN

Hey DaRock,

I was just thinking, a little bit from your girlfriend's possible perspective. . . debt can be scary for some people. I'm kind of like that myself, and it isn't so much the desire for a certain lifestyle as it is angsty-ness about being entangled and trapped by mounting payments. I prefer a pared down lifestyle and cutting out unnecessary expenditures. So coming from that perspective, I wondered if maybe she just wants the reassurance that you are working towards financial wellness (i.e. eventual freedom from debt), that it is something you care about and prioritize, etc? If she knew and believed that, perhaps she would be more understanding of your need to prioritize therapy within that context? There are times when therapy is simply a necessary expenditure and I think she should care enough about you to respect that if you are thinking long term relationship. I just wondered if she might feel better about it if she felt her concerns were being heard and addressed as well. Surely it is possible to prioritize both mental and financial health, in the overall scheme of a possible life together?

Just some thoughts. Hope all works out well for you.

Hi da Rock

Just want to weigh in here. I think she is being very controlling. Her need for financial security is her need and she should rely on herself for that. It's like she's saying, you're perfect but you have to change this thing that I am not comfortable with. If you do this now, just think down the road when the next issue comes up that she's not comfortable with? Before you know it, you'll have given up one thing after another and you will become resentful of her and the relationship and rightly so.

You are who you are and if he really wants a guy with a bigger nest egg than you, then she should be honest with herself and you and move on instead of asking you to give up something that is very important to you. Or she needs to work at accepting you the way you are.

For her to be exerting so much control over you after 4 months is a little frightening
to me. A bit of a red flag so to speak. It doesn't sound like she is sorted out re her own needs nor does it sound like she's taking responsibility for them. Nor will she if you give in to her.

Good luck. Hope you can find a way to gently continue the
Conversation. It sounds like a big issue and could set the tone for the rest of your relationship.

Liese

quote:

Once you get to a higher level of commitment, like marriage, then it is true that you have to take each other into account. Since therapy is so important for you, I don't think I'd really consider carrying on a more committed relationship with anyone who doesn't support it.

My H has every right to give input on how much therapy I am in (and I did the same when it was just him in therapy), because we have been in a committed relationship, married for almost nine years, together for 13.5. We have a child together. My financial ruin is his financial ruin. Yet, even though it has cost us financially in very significant ways, he prioritizes my wellness.

On the other hand, if it's still in the beginning of the relationship and you ARE going into debt to pay for therapy, I could understand her not wanting to commit to a future with debt. Debt can be crushing to an individual and a relationship. If her concern is not what sort of lifestyle YOU can provide HER (premature after four months of dating as she should be providing for herself until you guys decide on a long-term commitment and if you agree that she would for instance stay home while you worked), but whether she will be committing to a relationship in which she fears she will be responsible for fixing a debt problem, you may need to show her some sort of budget about how you can/will pay for therapy.

It does seem controlling to me too, but as I don't know 100% her reasoning for not wanting to move forward, I will err on the side of believing the best in somebody you obviously care about (or else you wouldn't be trying to keep her).

I, personally, am in three sessions a week right now. I was in one for the first six to nine months, then two until the last couple of months. At this stage, three is a need for the sort of work I'm doing. I'm hoping it's not forever that I can't go more than a couple of days feeling safe/connected. And maybe that's something to communicate to her too. That it's not forever, but right now it's a need. I don't think there is anything wrong with just putting it out there like it is. It sounds like SHE is giving YOU an ultimatum, so you responding to it is actually not you giving one to her. It is just you making a choice about the one she gave you.

And it sounds like the choice you are making is something like:

"I really do want to be with you and I feel like this could be a really good relationship, down the line. But, right now, for me to grow into the person I want to be, so that I can contribute to and sustain myself in healthy, long-term relationships, I need to be in therapy three times a week. I hope eventually it will go down to two and then one, as I get better. However, I'm not going to put a timetable on it. I acknowledge that it's a financial commitment, but it is also hard work I am doing and a very real investment in both myself and the people who I love. I'm not trying to send you away, but I think the right thing is for me to be in this amount of therapy right now and so that's the decision I'm making. I hope you will want to stay."

I think Yaku laid it all out pretty well. I hope that she will stay with you in spite of your situation, but if not, she is really the one giving the ultimatum and forcing you to choose.

I think some people head into a relationship with the idea that they know how the outcome will be based on today.

Does it really work that way?

For instance, I had a dream, of staying home with my babies one day, as a full time stay at home mom, not working outside the home. However, because of the way my childhood was, I was determined to go to college and get a degree in a "career" type of field (so I'd have that to "fall back on" if I ever needed to). I never dated till I got out of college and I went into a career that I loved. I worked a lot of hours and was very into my career.

I dated a guy soon after I got out of college who was 11 years older than me, never married, and he 'knew' what he wanted (and was having trouble finding it). He said he wanted a Catholic woman who would stay home and raise lots of babies. Funny, how that's what I wanted, but he couldn't "see" it, since I was not that person that day.

I ended up marrying a guy who loved that I was very into my career (probably didn't believe one day I'd want to stay home with babies, even though I told him that). Soon after we married, we decided together I would quit my job and stay home. Two years later I gave birth to our first baby and I've been home for 11 years, with no work.

Now, my "dream" came true, I guess. But, my point is, neither man that I mentioned above "believed" me because of the picture that day.

I, personally, believe in growth. That people do change and grow. That the person we marry isn't going to be the person forever, however, some core hopes and dreams will remain. All is worth exploring, with the understanding that change is possible.

I don't believe in "ultimatiums," personally. But, I do believe in stating what is in our hearts at any given time. Neither of you is wrong. You may just prioritize things differently. (After 12 years of marriage, H and I do not prioritize things the same, either, and much of it comes from the life we had before we were together.)

I hope it works out the way you want it to.

Well said, Yaku. That was more or less what I was trying to get across, but I think you put it better.

you guys are so awesome and supportive. held, yaku, ninn, liese and blt all said some really wonderful and helpful things.
so far things are working out well and my reassurance that my being in therapy doesnt preclude having a nice life together has been well accepted.