Hi L to F...I can really relate to what you are writing...I don't trust my instincts either because of my abuse...especially when it comes to anger. I'm afraid to be angry with anyone because I believe I tend to overreact and/or I tell myself that the truth behind my anger relates to my 'issues of abuse' and therefore isn't legitimate, etc. I don't know what to do about it either...I always feel I have to be ever vigilant of my emotions because oh my...I might overreact/be unreasonable...so...I guess what I'm saying is yes, I get you...but, I don't know of any advice to give...mlc

I know how you feel. I have the same problem and lately it has been frustrating me. I think part of my problem also is that I would rather let someone hurt me than for me to hurt someone else. So I never say what I think or how i feel because i might hurt someone's feelings. Even though those people could care less about whether they hurt me or not. I have been going through this a lot lately with my family. My parents said some really hurtful things to me one of which was that it was all my fault that my psychiatrist got his divorce several years ago because of the way I was acting. That was back when I was hanging out in his neighborhood and he stopped seeing me over it. My feelings told me to stand up for myself and not to believe it. To tell my parents how I felt and then walk out of their house. But I kept my mouth shut and just took in what they were saying because I felt like leaving all pissed off would be an over reaction. I wish I could learn to say what I think and feel without being so worried about the other person. They dont care about me so why should I care so much about them. My P says the way I react to things is affected by the abuse I went through and that I have to learn to change it. But I dont know if I ever will be able to.

On the good side of things I was able to see my P yesterday and tell him what my parents told me about his divorce being my fault and how I felt about it and that it really hurt me because as much as I love him and want to be with him it would really hurt me to know that I caused him those problems. I told him even though it would hurt that I needed to know the truth. He was able to tell me it wasnt my fault and we were able to talk even more about the transference and the ways I screwed up that made him stop seeing me. So what they did kind of helped me out in a way.

I just hope some day I can fix the other problem and trust that the way I feel is okay and that it is okay to let others know how I feel even if it might hurt their feelings a little bit. I guess I just have to care about myself enough first before I can make it happen. But its nice to know that I am not alone it dealing with it.

Hi LTF.

I know what you are saying, as I have had very similar dysfunctions all my life...

I think for me, the change came when I began to see myself as an adult, (same level as every other person) and that as an adult I have choices. I stopped seeing myself as a victim. Instead of being in the blaming mode, I began to see that it was my dysfunctional patterns in adulthood (learned from childhood) as the catalyst to my problems. This is when healing began, when I took responsibility.Once I could 100% acknowledge this, I started to feel in control, because it was something I could work through and change!!
Through EMDR therapy I was able to work through & process my traumas and all the negative emotions associated with them, so that they no longer hurt & triggered me. I was able to move forward which is very key. Also, in therapy, I was allowed to vocalize my thoughts and emotions to my P, and I was never judged, questioned or criticized. This helped me tremendously to the point, where I don't fear what other people think of me so much anymore and I actually feel like I have the right to speak! I found self respect for myself.
I think that therapy really helped me a lot because it gave me a safe place and a safe person to start practicing this and it boosted my confidence to be able to speak up and express myself and set boundaries in real life. I think through this experience, I see it as
a muscle.. Like, the more you exercise it, the stronger it gets. In fact isn't everything like that? Each experience or encounter you have to stand up for yourself, take care of yourself, speak what's on your mind, the easier it gets.. the fear starts to lose it's grip and you start to see that not everyone is your abuser when that is what you were seeing. And it is fear of ____________ (rejection,abandonment,their anger, your anger, etc) that is the root, it's not about not wanting to hurt someone else's feelings as I always believed. Being able to deal with conflict
can be done with both truth and grace.

There's one thing that has stuck with me, that I read from a book. It's that when you are confronting someone about something, it means that you care, that you care enough to want to talk and work it out with one another because you want to maintain and have a good relationship with the other person. Not speaking up about it, on the contrary, would be the opposite, because things would start to slide. That was really a paradigm shift for me when I read that because I always saw confrontation and speaking up as such a negative. I still do have to remind myself of this new thinking whenever I revert back to a flash of my old thinking & I feel some hesitation... It really does work because it is the truth, and the truth sets you free.


Watch this video and see if it helps you..
I really love this website, it addresses some really great issues!
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v...p?clip=townsendA1657

take care Flicka

quote:

I'm afraid to be angry with anyone because I believe I tend to overreact and/or I tell myself that the truth behind my anger relates to my 'issues of abuse' and therefore isn't legitimate, etc.

Thanks mlc! You do get it, and you explained it so much clearer than my rambling did! That's it exactly... We can work on this together!

quote:

I just hope some day I can fix the other problem and trust that the way I feel is okay and that it is okay to let others know how I feel even if it might hurt their feelings a little bit. I guess I just have to care about myself enough first before I can make it happen.

Pippi, that's a very interesting point. By not standing up for ourselves, we really aren't caring about ourselves - and we deserve better than that. It sounds like your P is an amazing man. He sets limits, but is also open and honest with you, and that's a great relationship to have to help you get to where you want to be.

quote:

This helped me tremendously to the point, where I don't fear what other people think of me so much anymore and I actually feel like I have the right to speak! I found self respect for myself.

You're right flicka, self respect is a big part of it, and def something i want to work on. I watched the video, it was helpful. I just need to try to talk to my T about this so I can work on it. Now i'm aware of it, at least that's a start i guess.

thanks for the replies. i felt kind of silly and embarassed after posting it but now i'm glad i did.

LTF

quote:

...instead of vocalising/expressing that emotion, I question the validity of it and do the opposite.

LTF, Thank you for sharing what you did...you're not alone, I do that all the time, too...I run several possible reactions through my head but since I can't predict the outcome of any one, I end up paralyzed and do nothing.

In one of our earlier sessions, my T said "If you don't remember anything else I tell you today, remember this: You need to TALK." I'm learning (slowly) that I need to "articulate" my feelings, and (slowly) learning to trust him that it's safe to do so. And yes, it is particularly difficult facing conflict, or fear, when a man is involved...especially when I'm experiencing transference with that man. Lots to learn, I suspect...

quote:

one more thing to add to the never-ending list

Hey, you've got one of those, too? At this point, I'll never have enough time to get caught up, and every time I talk with him, more "stuff" comes up. I'm starting to think in "categories" rather than single items...if we address just one "thing" from the category, maybe I can apply that solution to the rest.

And this message board has been so helpful...I haven't posted much yet but I've been reading lots.

Hi, Pippi...I'm glad you were able to talk things out with your therapist!

quote:

Being able to deal with conflict
can be done with both truth and grace.

Amen, Flicka! My way of dealing with conflict has always been avoidance, running, escaping...if not physically, then mentally, and/or emotionally. The few times I have tried to face conflict, the truth part came out, but I have a long way to go when it comes to grace.

I've been in therapy since January and we are just getting into talking about transference. I've almost bolted several times...there's the avoidance. And I've kept lots of thoughts and feelings to myself, out of fear of being hurt or abandoned.

Last session, we looked at a hypothetical statement he had made a couple of sessions back that triggered some fear in me. We traced the fear back to its roots, which was abandonment. Not only that, but also probably explains why I didn't ask him to clarify, because I might hit a boundary and...abandonment. So he gave me an example of a question I could have asked that was both truthful and graceful: "Last session, you made this hypothetical statement that really triggered some fear in me. Would it be a boundary issue for me to ask whether it's true?" Then he paused for a few moments, then said, "So is there something you want to ask me?" My version wasn't quite as polished, but it'll get better I'm really grateful that he can be so concrete about modeling how to articulate truthfully and gracefully when fear has a hold...I need a "script".

And he answered me, truthfully, gracefully, without abandoning me...and with not a bit more information than I needed Just like a T (a good one)

Keep "punching"!
SG

I found some more psych videos from CloudTownsend that really helped me. I hope that someone gains benefit. I really enjoy this free advice!

I agree with Hummingbird in that this was a great topic to start. I really thought I was the only one to have this problem.. so thank you LTF for having the courage to share your feelings, I feel comforted!
Best, Flicka

Why am I afraid of all confrontation and discord? How can I learn to be more comfortable with disagreeing and asserting my thoughts when they go counter to everyone else's? (3:14)
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v....php?clip=cloudA1142

Balance Grace and Truth (2:38)
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v...eo.php?clip=CCNT2334

Control Yourself Not Others (4:69)
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v...eo.php?clip=CCNT2299

Aren't Boundaries Selfish?(3:20)
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v....php?clip=cloudA1023

Learn to ask Active Questions (6:20)
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/v...eo.php?clip=CCNT2324

quote:

What my T did is shifted that whole paradigm, instead of reassuring me that he wouldn't hurt me, he asked me to think about how i would cope if he did. It had never occurred to me before that i could possibly cope, my entire existence was around avoiding and it led to the most glorious discovery of strength and resources inside me. So the answer was not so much in how i dealt with the outside event or person, or even what happened, but what i did with it on the inside, it is a very important difference.

This is a very important difference indeed and does take practice like you mentioned. And I don't think that T's can promise to never hurt us because it happens anyway but learning to talk about it with them when it happens can make all the difference.

HB,
That is so true! I can still vividly remember saying to my T in a session "but I'll get hurt" and him looking at me and saying "so what?" (He knows the good use of an occasional shock that man.) It was such an incredibly foreign concept. My life and so much of what I did and the choices I made were organized around NOT getting hurt because I had no idea what to do with the pain if I felt it. Learning what to do with the pain is what has freed me.

My T has told me over and over that in any relationship, even my relationship with him which is totally focused on my needs, there will be disappointments and failures. I'm going to get hurt. But that doesn't mean the end of the relationship or my destruction. The point of relationship is to get what you need to repair the hurt and continue. There's an incredible freedom in it and in realizing that you have the strength you need. Thanks for this reminder.

AG

Hmmm,
It's hard to not sound like a victim with stuff like this, that's what I hate. I feel like i'm whining. I hate feeling sorry for myself, I know so many people had it worse. I think part of it comes from when i first tried to talk about the abuse while i was at school I didn't cope well, i'd walk out of classes, etc and some kids labelled me a "drama queen". So that's when i realised I wasn't allowed to FEEL. So i shut it all out. And that's how i got to where i am now. And now my T WANTS me to feel and I just don't always know how to.

I think i'm going to try talking to her with my eyes closed. It probably sounds stupid but it's like when you're a kid and you close your eyes and you think because you can't see anyone, they can't see you. Sometimes when I talk to her I feel like she sees right down into my core and it scares me. So if i can try to be vulnerable just talking without eye contact, maybe that's a starting point.

Surprisingly, since I've started to acknowledge this stuff and the effect it has now, it's not so overwhelming anymore. I feel more in control. For today anyway Two more sleeps till i see my T. I hope it's a good session.

LTF

quote:

I think i'm going to try talking to her with my eyes closed. It probably sounds stupid but it's like when you're a kid and you close your eyes and you think because you can't see anyone, they can't see you. Sometimes when I talk to her I feel like she sees right down into my core and it scares me. So if i can try to be vulnerable just talking without eye contact, maybe that's a starting point.

LTF,
I had to pick myself up off the floor I was laughing so hard when I read this. I swear to you that for the first year and a half with my T I never made eye contact. I've spent countless sessions curled in a ball with my hands over my hand sobbing when I'm trying to talk about this stuff. I consider a session really good if I manage to keep my eyes open and my glasses on for the whole thing. I'm doing it more and more as I've become less scared of experiencing my emotions and more trusting of my Ts reactions. Its also helped because being able to take in my Ts reactions has really helped. A good friend really encouraged me to try and keep my eyes open more often and so did my T. I could lose track sometimes of where I was when my eyes were closed. But that's how I did a lot of my deep work. Just wanted to let you know that I totally get why you would want to close your eyes. And it doesn't sound stupid to me at all.

AG

AG!
LOL i am glad it made you laugh! Thank you for reassuring me. I really really want to grow into the person I want to be, and it's hard to know if i'm doing it right. I don't know how my T will feel with me closing my eyes. It's like I'm shutting her out physically so I can let her in emotionally... *sigh* We'll see how it goes I guess.
LTF

LTF - Don't feel bad if you need to close your eyes. If it helps you to get better, then do it. I'm sure your P will be just fine with it. I've asked my P to turn around in his chair, so that I saw his back. We were talking like that ! LOL I also felt childish and like we were playing a game. It was embarrassing, but it helped me to open up and express what I needed to!