hi kmay... I have always preferred a male T maybe because of my background. I did see a female for ten sessions after oldT abandoned me but she was not very helpful or effective and I left her.

My oldT was a PhD and my current T is a PsyD. I don't feel that the degree matters as much as the experience and training after the degree. I would highly recommend a T that is experienced in psychodynamic therapy and works in long-term depth therapy and has dealt with clients with complex PtSD and attachment injuries. I would also suggest a T that is okay with outside contact (email and phone calls).

My oldT was a PhD and had little training and supervision before opening his own private practice. He did research and worked administratively in a larger group practice. He had no experience with attachment (didn't know what it was even) and certainly not with trauma and while he claimed to do "psychodynamic" style work he had no freaking clue what that was.

My current T has had extensive experience in all those areas, worked in prisons, mental hospitals and had a grueling training program to get his PsyD degree (doctor of psychology not philosophy).

Hope that was helpful
TN

I agree with TN. It's the experience and ongoing learning and training that matter more than the degree. My own T is an MFT and as I have said before, the thought has NEVER crossed my mind that if she had a different degree she would be able to help me better.

If I were you, here are some of the things I would look for or ask about:

1. Does the T look calm, present, and comfortable in his or her own skin? Do you feel at ease being around them? These are signs of a healthy nervous system, something you definitely want.

2. Ask them to define trauma and summarize their theory of how they work with it. If they can't explain it in a way that makes sense to you, they probably don't understand it very well. And if they only have *one* method for working with trauma which is very narrow (like a certificate in EMDR and nothing else), that also means they might not be very well versed in that area.

3. Ask them what they know about attachment or attachment theory, or how it functions in therapy. Not all T's like to think primarily in terms of attachment, but if they don't even understand what it is, it's a huge red flag IMO.

4. Ask about their contact policy and policy on touch. There's no clear right or wrong here, but maybe you know what works or doesn't work for you based on your past experiences.

5. This is my own bias, but I really appreciate that my T has experience working with body-based methods of therapy (in her case, Somatic Experiencing). These are known to be particularly helpful for trauma. You could ask in general how they bring the body into therapy if at all.

6. If you want, ask how much experience they have working with people with similar issues to yours, and what those outcomes have been.

It's funny, though. I say all this, and yet it's not how I picked my T at all. After I left OldT, I interviewed another T before her, and I grilled her with all kinds of questions without being terribly impressed. When I met my current T, I had the list of questions with me, but I don't think I got to asking any of them. I walked into her office feeling like I was going to fall apart, and barely avoided crying while filling out her intake forms. But when I went in, she had such a gentle manner and asked me in the most relaxed fashion to look around the room and notice anything I might like to look at. After listening very understandingly to me about my situation, she helped me do a little grounding exercise, and by the time I left I felt less anxious, more hopeful, almost normal even. So it was really the way she helped me feel safe and balanced that convinced me she was right for me. Almost a year later I still know I made a really good choice.

TN & BLT,

Thank you very much. I really am not in a good state and so I don't want to just settle for someone b/c they have the first open appointment you know? I have never seen another T besides old T so I don't have anything to compare to. I did make that appointment with the MFT that I spoke about before. He has an opening tomorrow and I was able to speak to someone today to make the appointment. I have not been able to actually speak to any of the two other T's that I contacted, which both happen to be phd's. I left a message and sent an email today as well. Nothing yet
BLT - thanks for the questions to ask. That is really very helpful. When I started seeing old T, I was barely 17 years old and she was in my parents insurance (and their friend of course for those who know the story.) So it wasn't like I picked her out so I have never gone through this before.
By the way - do you think there is a reasonable amount of time that I should give the other T's to get back to me before just moving on? I mean, I personally feel like anything beyond 2 or 3 days (without their message or auto reply on email saying they are not available or something) is plenty long enough. But maybe I am wrong?
This is so hard. Every single step of it.

kmay, one thing you could do is just see anyone who will see you, and if it's not a good fit you can ask for a referral. That is how I got my T's name. I never would have found her by myself.

I agree it's a good idea to pick someone who returns calls promptly, although occasionally things come up and it may take longer.

I know it's so hard. Have you talked to your insurance about it? I have unusually nice insurance but they actually helped my H find his T. They called around for him. They did the same for me, I just didn't end up picking any of the ones they found.

I hope you find someone soon. I know when I first looked it took like a month because nobody got back to me either. Waiting can be awful. We're here for support.

Kmay I’m sorry you’re having such a hell of a time trying to find another T. As BLT says, it’s the waiting that’s the killer .

From my vast experience of seeking out new Ts every few weeks I very quickly realized that those who messed about getting back to me in the first place were the ones who would continue messing me about during therapy and so even though I wouldn’t automatically discount a T who didn’t get back to me within a couple of days, it was most definitely a black mark against them. I did however end up seeing some of them simply because I was running out of options. I still think you should spread your net really wide and have as many Ts lined up to see as you can get. Then you won’t feel so pressured by just having one at a time to see and having to wait on them getting back to you at their leisure.

I think BLT has some good advice there, just go along and see whichever T can give you an appointment (it can be very useful to get a better overall perspective on what sorts of different Ts there are out there and how they make you feel and what they are like compared to your oldT) and just move on to another if you don’t click with them. Also, I’m now convinced that getting referrals is the best way to find a decent T – so though it might be difficult to ask a T you’ve only just seen for the first time for a referral to someone else, if they’re any good as a T and realize they can’t help you or that you need more specialized therapy they’ll be happy to refer.

As for the differences in qualifications – I don’t know what the American ones mean, but I’m pretty much convinced now that the higher and more rigorous the qualification, the more LIKELY it is that the T is going to be more effective. But that’s obviously not a blanketly true thing. In cases of trauma and attachment injury and complex PTSD though, the knowledge and understanding of these things is essential and I’m not sure that a bog standard T with minimal qualifications would have that knowledge. Again though it’s experience that counts for more than anything, so finding a T who’s had many years experience in an approach that you think would suit you is probably a better indicator of whether that T will be good, than just their qualification. Ideally they have both, qualifications and experience. So not asking for much then .

Sorry to have written a novel and I’m sure you’ve thought of all these things yourself. I’d just encourage you to go see as many Ts as you can at this point and give yourself a choice. The simple fact of having a number of Ts to see will also help you get through this empty time while you’re waiting to start therapy again. The other advantage is that if you do meet more than one that you like, you choose who you think will be the best fit, but have another(s) in reserve if it doesn’t work out, that way you don’t have to go through all this agony again.

Good luck with it (((((((( Kmay ))))))))

LL

I know I keep writing here, sorry, lol. LL had some good advice. It just occurred to me to say something else. Don't make it harder than it has to be. If you can, get the list from your insurance of providers in your area. Then you go down the list, call the first 10-15 numbers, and leave a message that say, "Hi, I'm kmay, I'm a prospective client who would like to talk to you. My number is XXX-XXXX. I look forward to hearing from you." You should be able to do that in less than 30 minutes. When someone calls back, ask if you can ask them a few brief questions on the phone. When they say yes, which they probably will, ask them what their training is in, and how many years experience they have in treating complex trauma, or whatever other question is important to you. If their answers are OK, ask for an appointment. Then if you go and you don't like them, you can still ask for a referral.

One mistake I made when looking for T's was to put too much stock into whatever their website or other online information said about them (or didn't). Some of the best T's have NO web presence at all, and for those who do it often doesn't represent them accurately. Talking to them on the phone for even 5 minutes would give you a better idea of what they are like.

Good luck!

BLT - Write as much as you want I love the input. I think we actually have an unusally nice insurance too. With the few times I've needed to talk to them, they have been great so that's a great idea. Maybe I will have them help if they will. Also, the more I thought about it, you are absolutley right about not putting all my trust in their website or reviews alone.

LL,
Yes, I agree about not getting back to me. Its a sign of whats to come. You know, a couple months ago I was looking for a child psychologist for my daughter b/c of a scare we had that something may have happened to her while she was around someone who was recently accused of CSA. Anyway, the first P I contacted in our insurance by email, emailed me back right away. She gave a time she would call between appointments and she did. She answered all my questions and I felt so safe with her (as you can imagine how scary this was going through this with our daughter)and calmed by just speaking to her over the phone. I wish I could find a T that responded like that



I have a fear about asking them questions. I don't know why. I feel like I don't have a right to question them and that they will think poorly of me if I do....isn't that crazy? Part of my issues of course. Boo! I do have an appointment with someone today at 10:15am. Its the one I mentioned in my first post who was the associate of the original one I called. He is a MFT, so we shall see. I will update you tonight. He has no website presence at all so I couldn't research him. I will update you guys.
Thanks again for all your support!!

(((Kmay))) Good for you for starting the search for a new T.

Sorry, I'm a little late to this. Like others have said, it's not the title that matters, rather the experience and overall ability the T has to empathize with a client. Also, I think the max time you should wait for a call back from a potential T is 48 hours, but I think even that is pushing it. You should really get a call back within 24 hours. My T is wonderful and was very prompt when I called her the first time. And, she actually called 3 times (I was a student and she kept calling while I was in class) before I was finally able to answer, which I really appreciated.

I was terrified of asking her questions and barely did on the phone. Oh, and as far as the website goes...my T doesn't even have one, so I wouldn't put much stock into that (in my very humble opinion). Don't limit yourself to Ts that have websites...try to branch out as much as you can. If you like this T you meet with but know you don't want to stay with him, don't be afraid to ask him for some referrals - he may know someone who is maybe more suitable for you.

Best of luck - I hope today goes as smoothly as possible.

hi kmay....

for what it's worth my current T has NO web presence at all. Nada. In fact, he is the only T out of six that I saw that I didn't see a picture of before meeting them. When I asked him why he was not on the web he responded that he has not had an opening in years and that I got in to see him because I was referred by a friend (and also he knew some of what happened to me from said friend and he knew he could help me).

My oldT had a website of his own with old out of date information and it did not give an accurate portrayal of his qualifications. Of course he could hardly list himself as incompetent!!!

So view websites with caution and dont' judge a T by it.

Another tip: Most T's will give free 10 minute interviews via phone. I got tired of paying to interview in person so I did this with my current T. I had a focused list of questions for him and he totally aced the answers and I knew I found the one for me when he told me that attachment was normal and healthy and he expects it and it does not scare him at all!

Good luck.
TN

so how did it go, kmay??

Well...here's the big and the small of it,

When he first walked through the door I took one look at him and immediatley thought "Hell No" He didn't look gentle or nurturing or whatever "look" makes me comfortable. But of course, I went on with it.

Here is what I liked -
-He has been practicing for 32 years!
-He talked to me about different types of therapy that he said he "knows" can help me with my struggles. He mentioned EDMR and that's the only title I remember. He talked about some body memory stuff and a few other types that I don't recall. I was so enthralled with all of this b/c in my 10 plus years with old T, I had never heard of any of this.

-What I didn't like -
-So when we first started talking, I explained to him that I had been seeing old T for 10 plus years on and off and that I got really hurt in the end. A little later in the discussion, I tell him that I am married and he says "wait...I thought you just said that you got out of a long relationship for 10 plus years." I almost laughed out loud b/c of course I literally did...but clearly he wasn't listening!! I had to re-explain about T.
-He also talked in a sort of robotic tone like he was so used to saying the same thing over and over and over.
-When I asked him about his policy on contact outside of the therapy hour he looked at me like I was a little nuts and said "Well, I take crisis calls, as in if your feeling suicidal. If I took calls outside of crisis calls, then I would never be able to hang up by phone b/c people would be calling saying things like "Uumm I'm supposed to go to my in-laws for dinner but I don't want to so what should I do?" - Yeah I didn't like that so much.
-I also didn't like that when he was explaining how to reach him through the call center they use (I can't have his cell phone number) that I need to be very very clear about what I need b/c he is certain that they only hire stupid people that have an IQ of under 80 to work at the call center and they make too many mistakes. I thought that was really mean to say The girl who helped me at the call center was really nice and made no mistakes.

So as you can see, the bad list outweighs the good list so I am thinking no for him. I was almost thinking I might see him again b/c I am so hopeful that he said he "knows" he can help me and b/c he talked about all these therapy methods I had never heard of before. Truth is I am starting to think that my old T only really knew how to do "talk therapy" and nothing else. She had a kind caring soul, but I'm not sure how much she actually helped me to get better. She comforted me and took my calls any time day or night, but I am clearly still in the same emotional shit mess that I was in when I first started seeing her. So I suppose that there are certainly other T's out there who can help me using these other types of therapy and I will hopefully click with one of them better.

So anyway...I guess I will keep searching for another T.

I couldn't bring myself to ask for a referral. I just couldn't. I am really afraid I won't find a good T without one.

Oh and I cried the entire session. I mean the ENTIRE thing. He probably thinks I am a total basket case!

Kashley,
Thank you. I agree with you about the 48 hours max. I still have not heard a word at all from the other two T's I contacted several days ago so I guess they are out.

Kashely & TN - this may sound strange, but do you mind if I ask exactly how you worded the request for a referral for another T to the T you had decided wouldn't work for you? I don't know how to do it
And after how many appointments until you asked for a referral?

quote:

-When I asked him about his policy on contact outside of the therapy hour he looked at me like I was a little nuts and said "Well, I take crisis calls, as in if your feeling suicidal. If I took calls outside of crisis calls, then I would never be able to hang up by phone b/c people would be calling saying things like "Uumm I'm supposed to go to my in-laws for dinner but I don't want to so what should I do?"

I'm sorry, I just found it funny that he thought that. My T does take non-crisis calls, and she's never complained about getting too many. All you have to do is take a while to answer the non-emergency ones and then it dissuades people from abusing it. Just saying.

I say...if he didn't quite feel right, trust your gut and keep looking. You'll probably learn a lot just by interviewing some different people.

BLT - I thought it was totally funny too. I laughed out loud when he said it but my laugh was also a little sarcastic b/c I was thinking to myself "Geesh...I don't know if I should feel better or worse that he just assumed that I would call him for something of that nature."

Kmay... I never asked for a referral from any T. I always sought out my own T's. A friend of mine was also seeing my current T and she said he was good and to try him and so when I got desperate (after trying 4 other T's) I called him and left a message. He returned my call within 24 hours and spoke to me for 12 minutes on the phone answering my questions about trauma and attachment. I knew he was the one for me by his answers. He was the first T that did not make me feel crazy after being abandoned by my oldT.

The first T I saw after the abandonment seems similar to this T you saw today. I also cried through the entire session and used half a box of tissues in there. He told me he would have to keep tighter boundaries on me which scared me to death and felt like punishment. He also said he does not have email and avoids using the telephone at all costs and I could only see him once a week. I was so wounded I knew I needed outside contact and more frequent sessions at least for awhile.

I ran from him and never looked back.

I saw another T for one session and he told me that he only accepted calls if the patient was suicidal. Great. I ran from him too.

I saw a lot of red flags in your post about the guy today. My T takes emergency calls and wears a pager. He accepts emails too. No texts. His sessions are 50 minutes long. He returns calls between sessions or at the end of the day. He only responds to emails in the morning before office hours. So I usually email him at night and have a response in my box in the morning. He trusts his patients not to call about stupid things and to use good judgement. He is always gracious on the phone and never makes me feel like a burden. He said he would HATE it if patients only called when they were suicidal because it's better to avoid getting to that point with a quick check in before that. He also believes that if he has that kind of rule then people will tend to act out in order to get his attention instead of just giving him a call to connect and get reassurance.

I also think that T today was mean and condescending about the phone center. That showed his innate character and it was not pretty. Don't go back to him. YOu don't need that.

Keep looking for the right T for you. Ask yourself what you really need in a T and then go find that person. I had a list of requirements and my T met just about all of them. I do think it's imperative to find a T (with your background/history) who does in depth psychodynamic therapy and is trained in object relations, attachment, trauma and has experience working with those who have histories of abuse. I would avoid CBT T's who specialize in short-term, quick-fix therapy.

I have never done EMDR but I would say that even if you were to use it ... in those with long term complex trauma it is not a quick fix and you need to have established a long-term, trusting and safe relationship before delving into EMDR and processing the trauma. I read extensively about this kind of technique and there are no studies to back up the success of it for complex trauma patients. It may work well enough for single trauma sufferers... like those in accidents, war or who witness murders or natural disasters but for complex trauma (those with long-term childhood abuse/neglect) I suggest someone skilled in the theories of psychodynamic therapists (and not just someone who is willing to "talk" with you). It would be helpful to have someone who knows the process of getting you well and who has experienced it with previous patients.

I hope this helps in some way. I know it can feel overwhelming and difficult to find someone. But it is so worth it when you do find that person. If you have any other questions please ask.

Hugs
TN

quote:

e said he would HATE it if patients only called when they were suicidal because it's better to avoid getting to that point with a quick check in before that. He also believes that if he has that kind of rule then people will tend to act out in order to get his attention instead of just giving him a call to connect and get reassurance.

I also think that T today was mean and condescending about the phone center. That showed his innate character and it was not pretty. Don't go back to him. YOu don't need that.

OK, so on a more serious note, I agree with TN about these things. How are you supposed to open up to a T when you hear them trashing perfectly well-meaning people behind their backs? How safe does that make you feel? And yeah, I understand T's who offer no outside contact at all, but the whole idea of offering it *only* for crises is so misguided in my opinion, for the same reasons TN cited.

I totally agree with what TN said. I'm shocked at his comments about the call center. We have a call center at my work, and they are some of the most wonderful ladies..I can't imagine ever saying something so horrible about them. Also, a competent T would never say that he "knows" he can help you. At least in my opinion. A T cannot rightfully know that from the get-go. It takes a few sessions to get a clear picture of what's going on before a T can really tell whether they think they have the experience and resources to help you. Another thing is that my T has never really mentioned specific methods of therapy - she just uses them all in various ways like picking flowers out of a field.

Anyway, sorry - I need to run. Big hugs to you. It's really brave of you to go "try out" new Ts.

(((Kmay)))

Good on you for going to try and find a new T! It took me a lot longer to even attempt doing that.

Seems like new T is arrogant and seems to justify that level of arrogance by his 32yrs work experience as a T. While I am sure he has learnt a lot in those 32yrs there is no doubt he is missing out on a lot of learning too with that attitude. For starters if he generalises on the IQ of the ladies at the call centre, I have no doubt he will have generalised opinions on you too. So if you are a mother you are meant to feel like X, and if you live in that suburb you should lead the lifestyle of Y and be influenced by the social attitudes of Z. If you are in this career you have the intelligence of an ape, and if you are in that career you have the intelligence of a rocket scientist. Oh, wouldn't that be an easy puzzle to figure out! Except nothing in life is as straight forward as that, and if I were sitting there I would find it exceptionally offensive at the prospect of thinking that he thinks he is more intelligent and superior than me just because of his job title. Let me say in my line of work (well previous line of work since I am now studying and have changed careers), I can recall MANY instances where although I had been doing the work for lets say 5-10 yrs, and there were others who had spent the last say 20-30yrs in that career, I would be called by those who had worked there for the last 20-30yrs to help them. There were MANY times that I showed them new and improved strategies, even though technically they had more work experience than me, and so based on that fact, should have known more than me. What a load of rubbish! The day you close your ears to new learning because you think you know it all is a VERY sad day. Some of my greatest lessons in life, I have learnt through people with no education, and I've also learnt how not to be when looking at some people with a string of qualifications. It is amazing what shines through arrogance!

I never commented on this thread before because I haven't been to many T's and my experiences are somewhat masked. One thing is for sure, I am very comfortable going to somebody younger than myself, and qualifications although important, are not everything in my eyes. My old T was younger than me and not even a proper T at that, and although it killed me that she terminated my therapy especially in the way she did it, I felt so comfortable with her. There was a lot she did right. I needed the physical contact, and her way of thinking was very much in line with mine, so for that reason I was able to talk to her about everything. I've since searched for other T's and although I have restrictions in terms of what I can afford, I've seen others (very briefly - one session here and there) with higher qualifications than her but I don't feel the connection with them, and without that feeling of being able to connect I'm not going to open up, and so really they could put their qualification to better use on an ape than they could with me. Someone else might see that same T and connect wonderfully. The truth is there is no book about that connection, you just have to feel it and go with that feeling. Kind of like when you are looking for a partner in life. You can meet this person who has a tick next to your entire list of prerequisites for the perfect partner, but if you don't feel that connection with that person, you cannot enter into a trusting and intimate relationship with them no matter how hard you try.

So if I am to give my most unqualified opinion I would have to say, follow your feelings Kmay. Look at their qualifications they are necessary, but one of the most important questions to ask is "do you think you will be able to connect with this person sitting in front of you?" One T may have a higher qualification or more work experience than the other, but that doesn't address connection issues. Like I said it's an unqualified opinion but it is true to how I feel.

Good luck in your search Kmay!



P.S. Sometimes we are looking so hard to replace or avoid our old T's when looking for a new T that it is very possible we miss out on the perfect new T. Your heart knows what you need. It's not always necessary to fight that feeling.

B2W

TN,

quote:

He said he would HATE it if patients only called when they were suicidal because it's better to avoid getting to that point with a quick check in before that. He also believes that if he has that kind of rule then people will tend to act out in order to get his attention instead of just giving him a call to connect and get reassurance.

-So funny you said this. I was thinking the exact thing in my head when he was talking. I was thinking "Hhmmm, well if I am to the point where I am gonna do myself in, and I couldn't call you about anything that lead up to that point, then I'm thinking making a 911 call will be more helpful than you."

quote:

EMDR and processing the trauma. I read extensively about this kind of technique and there are no studies to back up the success of it for complex trauma patients. It may work well enough for single trauma sufferers... like those in accidents, war or who witness murders or natural disasters

- Ah ha! Again...he actually used the war veteran as an example of how the EDMR stuff works. He says that they get triggered just like I get triggered by certain things and that this EDMR method will help....Hhmmm I don't know much about any of this but it sounds like from what you are saying, that it is not most helpful in my case.

Thank you so much for your input and help. I have only ever seen old T. I have never researched different types of therapy before and I actually didn't even know they exsisted. I just want to get better. I want someone who knows what they are doing, who is caring and compassionate and who can actually help me. I don't want alot huh?

BLT,
Yes, I agree too. I am not going to go back to him. I think I am so desperate for someone to give me some emotional relief that I was half willing to just go a second time and see if he would all of the sudden change to my liking

Kashley,
I really like what you said about him assuming he "knows" he can help me. To be exact, what he actually said was "Oh...we can get rid of that. Those memories, those triggers. No problem." Like he was just going to erase them away with his fancy tequniches. Oooops...stupid me for having some hope in that huh? You are so right....

B2W,
Yes, you are right. While I still do want to ask about what kinds of therapy they use, I am going to just trust my intiwishon. What I feel about connecting to someone. It has rarely failed me before so that is the way I am gonna go. Thank you for your "most unqualified opinion"... - I love it.

Thanks to all!

quote:

To be exact, what he actually said was "Oh...we can get rid of that. Those memories, those triggers. No problem." Like he was just going to erase them away with his fancy tequniches.

Can I just say something about trauma processing here? As far as I know, with a competent therapist, and having done enough ground work (none for some people and years for others), EMDR or other techniques can help process traumatic memories, so that sensitivity to triggers is greatly reduced, and you can think about the memory without panicking or going into flashbacks. It doesn't remove the memory, or turn it into something pleasant, it just takes the charge off of it. To claim that such a thing is possible is not being cocky, it's just a fact.

Also, EMDR by itself is not going to fix complex trauma, but as far as I know, there are many competent T's who treat complex trauma while using EMDR as one of several tools that they have at their disposal. So I wouldn't write a T off entirely just because that is something they work with.

BLT,

I am hoping I didn't offend You? Or maybe I am just reading your message wrong. I am very sorry if I did. I don't think I articulated what I was trying to say properly.

No, you didn't offend me. I was just trying to clarify my opinions on EMDR and trauma processing in general. I wasn't sure whether you might have gotten the message from what TN wrote than EMDR is useless for complex trauma, which is something I would disagree with.

I guess I also heard TN as saying (even though she probably didn't mean to) only psychodynamic T's are effective for certain things, and my own opinion is that my T and TN's are totally different in their training and approach, but that both have been very competent and effective.

So maybe that was more to TN than you. I apologize.