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So, I had a mostly good and connecting phone session with T this morning. He called on time, well, at 10:01, but usually he is 15 minutes late, so I was kind of thrown off.

T started off with prayer as usual. He sounded so tired during the prayer, or sick, or emotional...I couldn't tell which. I almost asked if he was OK and if he would rather skip the session, but I resisted my caretaking stuff. He asked how I was doing and I said my cautious, "OK" and talked about how it had been a busy, distracting morning. T told me where he was with my journals that I send him (he had accidentally skipped over one from last week, read another, and didn't seem to know about a third I had just sent yesterday). I told him I was still feeling like "too much" for how much I send him and he refuted that idea straight away, saying again how good and helpful it is. I offered to send less and keep them to myself, but he said absolutely not, because he didn't want to be working in the dark, bumping into things and knocking them over all the time. He compared it to me and Boo, saying that if I was moving around the house in the dark, I would want to know where she was at all times, so I didn't step on her toes. That was, at once, a cute remark and a disparaging one (because of the implications of the phrase "step on your toes," which I don't think he intended to include). So, he is comparing his relationship with me a bit to my relationship with my own kid. Red Face

He said there was a lot of "interesting" stuff in the journal entry he had just read. I told him that that word scared me. He said there was a lot of stuff in there that he wanted to talk about and some things he felt we were not ready to talk about. I told him that we didn't need to rush if we weren't ready, but that wouldn't keep me from telling him when that stuff came up for me. He said that was very good. I chickened out on asking which stuff we weren't ready before (though I'm reasonably sure it is the boundaries/connection/invisible box stuff that it feels like he has been avoiding). I asked if interesting was a neutral term. He said it was a descriptive one and explained that he found much of my journal entry very helpful and that other parts made him feel he was not up to the task. Frowner I didn't ask which parts. I was about to, but we got disconnected. When we reconnected, he just did his usual, "I find myself more in more in my life just realizing my own inability and relying on God." Since getting off the phone, I am really wishing I had clarified, because I am in a tailspin thinking, "T will decide he can't help me and send me away" to some other T. I also wanted to ask if he consults with colleagues when he feels that way about my stuff, like our contract mentions he might. I have journaled that stuff and want to ask him both of these questions next time. I wonder if he'll be willing to reveal what those challenging parts are. As it was, I just apologized if I caused problems.

He moved on to reassure me about texting, because I had journaled that I didn't want to interrupt the client before me on Monday by sending him a list of what we should discuss. He said it's never an interruption, that he sees it come in, but it doesn't take his focus off of whoever he is present with. I told him that I feel worse about the texting during my freakouts, when I just keep getting worse and how it just seems I am sending him SO much. He said something like, "Well, you were feeling SO much and I want you to know you can reach out and connect when you are overwhelmed like that and it really is no burden."

Because my freakout involved SU thoughts and feelings, T asked if we could go over something I had written about that in my journal about getting to a place of not even wanting God involved when I am like that. He labeled that as a fragmented part (though with both of us acknowledging I am still "there" even when that part is on the surface and I feel like I can't intervene or get back to "myself"). He said he sensed there was a lot of hurt and fear and probably anger, not unlike a toddler. T actually talked more psychology than he ever has here, but unfortunately though I kind of remember the concept of what he was getting at, I have no recall of the words or exact ideas he utilized...I guess I went away hearing him describe me in that way He asked if I could give that part a label or name to make it easier to talk about, because he didn't want to name it for me. I told him the only name I had ever used (Victim or V) was derogatory in my mind and didn't match with his kindness toward that part. At some point in the conversation I expressed frustration with myself for acting out, getting so out-of-control and destructive and contacting him so much when I'm like that, and being so challenging. He compared to Boo again here, asking if she challenged me. Yes. If she got destructive. Yes. Out of control and unable to consider the consequences. Yes.

I told T that texting when I was very upset seemed to just make things worse in the moment, but in the long-run, texting with him when I was like that helped. He said we should aim for what was better in the long-run. I also let him know that I didn't think he could really ground me in those moments, because texts about accepting my helplessness and hopelessness as a part on relying on God gave me really bad reactions. He asked me to clarify and I brought up the whole "monster under the bed" discussion which he hadn't received yet. He asked what types of messages might work better and I told him I didn't want to give him a script or anything. He asked, "But, maybe reassuring messages?" And I said, "Yes, like that you're there and God's there and you know it's hard or scary, but things will be OK." I said that the other stuff would be fine if I wasn't freaking out already, but when I'm like that, it absolutely causes problems. I said, "Can you imagine me saying that to Boo? If we are labeling that part of me a scared toddler, I mean..." T said, "Wow, yeah, you're right, hmmm..." and got quiet. I asked if he was still there and he was and said he was just taking things in, understanding something now on a deeper level, rather than just on an intellectual level. He did this at one other time in the discussion too. I told T that his quietness made me feel like I broke something in our connection, but he reiterated that he was just really thinking about the importance of what I had said.

I don't know when this part of the conversation happened (sometime in the first half of our session), but we were talking about Boo and how challenging for parents children at that age are. I think it was in reference to how challenging I felt like I was, but I didn't really make the connection at the time. I agreed with him on that and said, "Yes, but it has its rewards." T replied, "You know, you just described exactly how I feel!" I didn't think anything of that statement, because um...duh, any halfway decent parent finds their children rewarding. I think I said something like, "OK." And T asked, emphatically, "Did you understand what I just said?" I said, "Yeah, I heard you." T said, "You heard me, but do you understand what I'm saying?" I started to become suspicious that I had no idea what he was trying to say, but of course, I cannot tell my T that I'm clueless, so I just parroted, "That you feel the same way as I'm describing." And he said, "Yeah, I feel really similarly about finding it rewarding." I was still really confused, assuming he was talking about what it feels for him as a dad to his own kids, and just said, "Well, I think MOST parents feel their kids are rewarding." T just said, "Hmm...yeah, me too." It didn't occur to me until much later that he might have been trying to tell me, "Yes, you sometimes challenge me, but I find our (therapeutic) relationship rewarding in that same way." Silly T...if that's what you mean, just say it? Now I'm stuck in this sort of, "Did he mean that or didn't he?" place. If he did, why not just say so directly? If he didn't, why all the emphasis on making sure I "understood" what he meant? Roll Eyes If he meant it that way, I am so touched and my Kiddo-transference stuff is going crazy with joy. If not, I feel like a fool for reading too much into it. It's so hard to tell these things over the phone! Grrr...

The last topic we talked about, and he asked if it was OK, was H's condition. He said that he really felt like he had to say he was so sorry that he had given the impression that he wasn't supporting me in taking care of myself with that stuff. He said he did have some hesitancy around the topic, but not related to me possibly leaving the bed. T explained that he really didn't make enough effort to understand the degree of helplessness I was feeling and now that he did that he understood and thought I was making a good decision to protect myself in that way. He said he wasn't going to push me one way or another (needs to be my decision), but in all his years of having women leave the marriage bed for various reasons, he had never met anyone who was MORE justified in doing so. He told me he wants to talk about H about the ways I can be protected in H's session (a week from this coming Monday) and asked me how I felt about that. I expressed reservations in him invading my H's therapy time with my stuff, told him generically about the teasing I receive and my uncertainty whether it was because H was uncomfortable. I told him that I thought it really was MY job to protect myself and T shouldn't have to intervene. I also expressed that it shouldn't be all on H to learn to control it, but also on me to learn to say no. T said something about being uncomfortable with that and I don't know if he was referring to me not thinking I deserved his help (him talking to T) or that the way of fixing it is my learning to say no. I had to journal after to clarify this with T, because I'm worried if he is taking on a "protector" role with me. I desperately want that, but if he extends himself too far and realizes later and withdraws, it will be very hurtful to me, so I'm just asking him to think that through before he talks to H on my behalf. It's a complex situation and hard to know what is "right."

Anyway, a lot of questions and fears. I feel a lot of relief from being finally understood and T obviously showing his care, but a lot of concern over a few things:
-His feeling not up to the task...does this mean he will ship me off to another T?
-His wanting to talk to H about how essential it is to protect me from more trauma, is that him crossing a boundary to "protect" me? Will he realize it later and regret it?
-Which topics are we not "ready" to talk about and is this readiness about MY safety, his own reservations or something else?

Anyway, feedback welcome on this stuff. Feeling connected to T, but any time I feel this way, I'm just so scared to lose him. Frowner

Edit: Holy $#!+ is this post long! Sorry!!!
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I wanted to send you a hug and be very honest, that I am not up to posting much or even reading much but I did try to read this post and I found myself unable to really concentrate, (due to where I am) so I realized I can still send you my warmth and care and concern and hugs, and will come back and read it properly later.
so my apologies but I intend to make time later.

Thinking of you.
Hi Yaku... thanks for posting your telephone session. I can see where you may be a bit skittish about some of his comments but in general I feel like he is working hard to help and understand you and your needs.

I don't know much about your T, not sure if you posted his background before and I may have forgotten. If so ... sorry. But what kind of therapy does he normally do? Is he psychodynamic? Does he have experience with attachment and complex trauma? From his age that you mention it seems he has pretty long experience in practice. I'm not asking because of any red flags I see, I'm just curious and it could explain some of his remarks.

I am slightly concerned about his timekeeping boundary. I think it's okay to run over 10 minutes or so once in awhile but not every time. My T only runs over with me if I'm crying really hard so as to give me some time to collect myself before I have to hit the road again. OldT would run over pretty regularly by 10 minutes. I think it's important for a client to know when the session will end because then I find it helps to say what you need to say right away without taking time to get to the point you need to discuss that session.

As for him not knowing how to help you. I don't know what to say about that one. While he may be perplexed about some of your issues that does not mean he will refer you away only that he may need to do some extra reading about it or some consultation. I feel he is the type of T who would go that extra mile to learn what he needs to in order to help someone he cares about and wants to see heal.

Those are just some comments that come to me after reading your session. I hope you are okay today.

TN
Thanks, TN, for your input. It really means a lot. To be honest, I had only ever done a few weeks of therapy as a child before seeing this T, so it never occurred to me to ask what type of therapy he does until I found this board...and since then, I've felt a little weird about asking. His bio says that he has 25 years of experience. At the time I started seeing him, it was supposed to be about my H's condition and related issues...so it never occurred to me that I would be there a while and should find out this sort of information. I was so functional and efficient with dissociating my feelings on all this BS that I literally had no idea 90% of it even bothered me until we started digging, so I can't really blame poor T if he was a bit ambushed by all this stuff.

I want, desperately, to believe my T won't leave me. I mean, I've told him how scared I am that he'll realize he can't help me, or eventually think I'm "too much" and send me away or leave me. He always says things about how he never pushes a client out of treatment or texts things like "I'm not leaving," or "I won't quit on you...no need to worry." I want to believe it. I don't know why I can't. I feel pretty certain it's inevitable.

I really never cry in sessions. The closest I get is tearing up and wiping my eyes. When we have run late, it has usually been because T has this magical ability to sense when I have bad thoughts in my head and I, for some reason, can't bring myself to lie to him and just say, "Yeah, I'm fine. See ya!" I must get a look on my face when that stuff comes over me. I must look like a different person or something, because it seems like he ALWAYS knows. It has been better, though, since he followed my request to move his closing prayer to 5-10 minutes before we leave and then try to wrap up on some lighter stuff. And I have been more disciplined about not bringing up stuff that pops into my head at that time, but journaling it and trying to "save" it for next time. So, hopefully the time issue will get managed. He should change his contract, though, because it says 50 minutes and he pretty much always goes 60+ with every client as far as I can tell.

Do you think my T will be willing to discuss what issue he's not "up to task" on? It could be any number of things, like the complexity of H's condition and trying to treat both of us in relation to it, or the attachment stuff. I really haven't a clue. I don't think it's my depression stuff or related thoughts/actions or my past trauma (SA) stuff, because he seemed comfortable when all that stuff was on the surface. So, I'm assuming it has to do with either current trauma of H's condition or all my "connection" issues that are coming up, the level of my dissociation and the different states it sends me into, which are attachment related, I think. Those are my guesses. However, I'd rather he just be transparent and not leave me guessing. If he is open about it, it's possible I can help him navigate whatever it is by giving more information.

I think you are right about my T being willing to go the extra mile to help me. He seems to genuinely care, although I have trouble believing in it. However, if he didn't care and wasn't willing to do everything in his power, I suppose he wouldn't encourage my texts or read all my journals and insist that he WANTS to do those things. I'm trying to remember that his actions show he is not the person I keep feeling like he is. You know how hard it is to reconcile what you KNOW intellectually about your T and what your past experiences have made you FEEL is so certain...

Today, I am...just depressed. I waited through some nasty stuff and didn't act out, so that's good. However, I can't bring myself to even want to celebrate being a mom tomorrow. I am feeling like such a failure there right now. I told H if he hasn't made plans already to not bother. We have to go to church early, so I can play drums and H can run the sound board. I will be so tired. I will just want to come home and rest. It's stupid, I'm wishing my mother's day away, because once it is over, the next day, I get to see T and connect with him and hopefully work through some of this fear I am having about being abandoned. I want to hear him say it over and over, "I'm not leaving you!" I need him to tell me and show me until I believe it. Please tell me it won't take me YEARS to get there. I'm not sure I can live with this sort of fear always on the surface for that long. Frowner

Sorry for the long reply. Thanks much for your input, TN. (((hugs)))
Last edited by yakusoku
I am keeping aware of what you are writing here Yaku - keeping you in mind and sending you all my best wishes and caring thoughts.

Still feel useless on the commenting front, and again want to apologise.

the only thing that I seem able to say is that my sweeetP runs over so much I have given up trying to work out how long a session is. Formally it was meant to be 75 minutes, but it is always 100 minutes or more. He actually seems to be scheduling in 2 hours and tries to end it after 100 minutes.

Things are so intense at the moment. I reassure myself that it is HIS problem that he runs over, I am not making him run over (sometimes I am tired and wishing I could go much earlier!)

Same with phonecalls, sometimes I wish he would stop talking so much as they end up as 45 minutes usually when actually 20 minutes would have been fine. I think he is just like that.

My therapists have always run over with me. I don't know why.

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