i get this pain oh so well.

Can you text her and say that you need to check in to make sure she is still there. Ask for her to reply to your text? Would that be ok and enough?

If you really want to talk to her, are you able to text her and ask her? Or is that too much too soon?

I have known my T forever and still have huge trouble asking to talk on the phone. I have rung her only once, but I text when I need to (if i am not too shut down) and she will text back.

Your new T sounds like a superstar T and knows her stuff so she will know that you need to check in with her. She will probably take your request as a really positive move.

This is not a pathetic longing!!! This is the early days of a beautiful attachment.

Somedays

Oh gosh SD I am sorry you know this pain so well. I guess I could try texting her. She is the first T I have ever had that actually texts. However I did text her last week and I feel like she may think this is some sort of bad pattern. I keep trying to think of the pros and cons of not calling her.

Pros of not calling: I won't be consumed by the shame of it in our next session. I won't worry that she's mad at me for bugging her. I will feel I accomplished something by not bugging her.

Cons of not calling her. This longing will continue. This long could go on and on and on and on and on....

Ugh

Hey Turtle,

The longing doesn't seem pathetic to me . Given what you've been through these last few months, the intensity, although it must feel really discomforting, might be a product of having to be so self-reliant and also related to how your last T relationship ended.

Have you guys talked at all about contact between sessions? Perhaps if you haven't and the pressure is unbearable you might email, phone or text and acknowledge that you've not spoken about this together yet but that it's come up for you and you feel like you need to check in.

If I am trying to get through something where I know my attention is being taken up by inner turmoil, I do stuff like put the radio on in the background to have something I feel I'm interacting with. It doesn't replace real people but it can help. I also parcel up my time into segments and then reward myself for getting through a segment. It's not easy and no fun... but it's a method.

Thinking of you, Turtle.

Edited to add: I just wanted to add that I get the pain too. I have experienced the struggle and it is really very hard to endure.

Do the PROS of calling !!!!!!!

They are the important ones. Focus on the good it will give you and her while you are both establishing your relationship.

(((SD)))

Here's the thing. My last T said I called her too much. That is really really hard to admit here. I have to say though that she was in general kind of a mean person. My new T told me that the T who dumped me was not well trained. She said she is still in supervision. I talked a little about what happened with the T who dumped me and she said that it sounds confusing and painful and it certainly was confusing and painful.

I don't want to call this T too much. Since my mom died I have been very impulsive. In the past I had much more control over this sort of thing. Now I feel like a blob with no boundaries.

I still think you should call her and it will be ok. This new T is a great one by what you have said. I do agree that one of the things you and her talk about early on is out of hours contact and try a few things to keep the contact during the week. That really helps with the attachment pain and needing to check in.

My T and I have a schedule each week of what she can reliably provide - on certain days she texts and some days she emails and I am allowed to send her texts when I need to check in with her. Also allowed to send lots of emails as long as I don't need immediately replies and she checks only them twice a week.

We took a long time to negotiate this and lots of tears along the way.

Turtle - I really want you to text this T, I don't want you to be in pain for the next few days, you have been through a rough period. I really think it will be ok.

SD

I am sorry Mallard we cross posted so I missed your response.

quote:

Have you guys talked at all about contact between sessions? Perhaps if you haven't and the pressure is unbearable you might email, phone or text and acknowledge that you've not spoken about this together yet but that it's come up for you and you feel like you need to check in.

No we have not yet discussed contact between sessions. I wish we had. I like what you said. I will consider that. I am hoping the urge will wane but because of the extraordinary stress I am under (evaluation) I don't think it will.

quote:

I also parcel up my time into segments and then reward myself for getting through a segment. It's not easy and no fun... but it's a method.

Yes this is what I have been doing. I get to mark my calander each day I don't contact her but you gave me an idea that perhaps I could break it up into smaller time periods. That's a good idea Mallard.

I called my old T a lot because I was having flashbacks. Seriously bad flashbacks because I was having all kinds of painful medical procedures that were done by my gynecologist. It was a horrible horrible time. At least I am not going through that anymore.

SD your last reply brought tears to my eyes. You really do get it. Yeah I want to call her but I don't want her to reject me. Maybe I can do a quick text. What can I say to her?

Dear T,

I am struggling right now with trying not to call you but I am not sure what is okay and what is not??

OR what would you say?

sorry to keep cranking you for answers! You guys are so helpful.

I think that sounds fine, Turtles. I might say, "I know we've not talked boundaries yet and I don't know what is okay but I'm struggling currently and feel I need to check in with you." But those are my words... I think yours are fine.

Yeah, with the segments I kind of have an inner conversation with myself about time because I work from home and struggle with the isolation at times. So, I'll set myself a "I'll work until x-oclock and then I'll do x" even if it's only making a cuppa and allowing myself a stupid game of Bejeweled Blitz (the coloured gem matching game) or something, although I have to be careful with those bloody games because 1 game can turn into 10 very easily!!

It sounds like your old T didn't set the kind of boundaries that were right for her, right from the start and then couldn't cope. It's so frustrating and sad when that happens. I'm really sorry you ran into that, if that's what it was - it's so painful because it reinforces lots of the stuff we already experience about being 'too needy' or 'too much for people'.

If it's ok to say, I think you're doing really well with trying to look after yourself. I get that it may not feel like that and so I'm kind of hesitant and understand that it might not be the right time to be complimenting you when you are feeling bad.

What you and mallard said is good.

I usually add that I want to check that she is still there. The segment idea is a great one, I might make a more deliberate effort to use that technique. Thanks Mallard.

I have been doing online jigsaw puzzles. I downloaded the program onto my computer and it also allows you to take any JPG file you find anywhere and it turns it into a jigsaw. you can alter the size and number of the pieces. I am finding lovely pieces of art by famous artists and turning them into puzzles and saving them and doing them. Yes it is wasting a lot of time at the moment - but it is enjoyable and I am appreciating art at the same time. My version of Bejewelled Blitz

Turtle - I do anything like this to help me get through minutes and hours (and lots of hours). Then an hour passes or half a day passes and I have been safe. And I have managed my emotions on my own. I was a success.

I also email my T about my feelings and that gets a lot of my emotion, anger, frustrations out. Sometimes just by writing, words flow out that I never knew were inside me and issues come out and I amaze myself.

SD

Hmm, I'd like the URL of the jigsaw maker program if I may?

I think I found it via this website http://thejigsawpuzzles.com/

Or Everyday Jigsaw by Kraisoft. They come loaded with a few free ones and they release new ones each week, but i love the Make your own feature.

Might have to google it. When i first looked at it I wasn't that impressed but once I realised what it did, i love it and only run it from my PC. Depends on how much time I have - I adjust the number of pieces, or edit the JPG to make it larger - just experiment with what works.

SD

quote:

Yeah, with the segments I kind of have an inner conversation with myself about time because I work from home and struggle with the isolation at times. So, I'll set myself a "I'll work until x-oclock and then I'll do x" even if it's only making a cuppa and allowing myself a stupid game of Bejeweled Blitz (the coloured gem matching game) or something, although I have to be careful with those bloody games because 1 game can turn into 10 very easily!!

Lol. I know that one about the computer games. I have given those up for fear of carpel tunnel syndrome I played them so much. Part of my problem is I have to do some very unsavory work for days on end hours on end for the next 5 days. It is mindless and so my mind is fully there but I must do this. I wish I could just distract in a pleasant way. I am listening to music and that helps.

I did text her this morning. She did not reply. So I texted her later and said that pain was intense and cancelled the apts with her seceratary. Then she called. I ignored her call. Then she called 3 times in a row. Then she texted and said she needed to hear from me or she was going to have someone check on me. I called and said I was fine that I was not going to harm or kill myself etc. She talked to me for a half hour. Told me that she was good at taking care of herself and that she'd talk to me about her limits etc when we meet again. She said she was very sad and worried at the idea of me leaving. She said she thought that she could really help me that she could offer therapy that I have never had before. She said she felt that I was very dissociative and worried about where that would go for me if I quit with her. Then she became like a used car salesman. She was working me. We talked for about a half hour. I feel like an idiot. I told her it was humiliating to call her secretary back and reschedule. She said that this was okay and that she expected me to do it. She said she was impressed with how much work I had already done and that she usually can't get clients to work as hard as I have been working and that she didn't want to see what I had already done go to waste. I have been meeting lots of new people. Spending time with new people. I volunteered. I am to show my artwork in a gallery on the 26th of October. She said this is all so promising. I told her that it was very unusual for me to be so involved socially and that the whole time this is going on I am watching it from a distance like I am not there. I am probably saying too much....
I may have some games you guys may like online. I will get back to you on that.

I am so grateful for the time that you guys have given to me regarding this.

((((turtles))))

(((Peng)))

(((CD)))

Thanks you guys. I do feel hopeful with this new T. I can tell she is going to help me. Afterall she LOVES working with my diagnosis and I see that as a good sign. I mean even on her Psychology today sight she says that this is her specialty and I never see that anywhere. She was very very good with me on the phone today. I can tell she is very unhappy with my last T. She all but says that she was negligent. I have even defended old T and she sort of gives this look that tells me that she feels bad about what happened with old T.

I love that this new T is my age. The first time I ever saw a T my age and I can tell it helps a lot. A lot. She is my best friend's age. The old T is my oldest sister's age and that was not necessarily good. Anyway I am willing to commit fully to working with this new T. I am willing to do my best to get better. This therapy is very structured and very very complicated. I can see now that so many Ts try to do this therapy and they just are not equipped or experienced enough to actually do the actual therapy effectively. The potential for using this therapy in an abusive way is too high. I told her about the pain in between sessions and she wants to discuss this with me. It is something I am inclined to hide. But I have to change this and be totally honest and talk about what is difficult.

Thanks for reading this if you made it this far.

(((SD)))

I think I missed the opportunity to give you a hug.

((Turtles)), thanks for the hug.

You have a renewed positive vibe about you, which is lovely. It is hard to embrace this... but when T's terminate us or do something horrible to us, we go through so much pain for a long time and it affects us badly - but I always feel that it always works out better. They do us a favour because an even better T is there for us.

(((Turtles))) I'm glad you got to talk to your T.

Is it ok to ask (and please do not feel obliged to answer - I will live without knowing!) what was going through your head when you decided not to pick up when T called back?

It's a really tough road you're travelling. I really think you are very brave to be committing yourself to working with this new T. It is really hard to look at yourself in detail particularly when you are in so much pain. I hope you two can do some good work together. I guess there will be downs too - but it looks more possible that you will be able to form a better relationship with this T so if you guys hit a rough patch, then you will have more of a secure base to work through it from.

It's okay to ask as that is a very good question. I felt frozen. I did not know what to say to her. I wasn't trying to play a game or anything like that. I was afraid to even listen to her message. She left one message that I listened to after we actually talked and it was "Please call me back." I was crying pretty hard and was upset. I was actually expecting her to text not call so this was also a surprise. Then she texted and then I called her back.

I was thinking further on this....

Okay so what happened was I was going through emotional pain so intense it was physical. A radiating pain throughout my chest. This pain has been a driving factor in many of my problems in my life. This pain gets so intense between most sessions that while about 4 hours of no response intensified the pain. I knew she had gotten the morning text. My phone tells me when texts have been seen. I also understood that she may have been too busy to respond. However what happened was the pain was magnified. The disorder I have also incorporates impulsivity etc. So as the pain grew I thought I can't keep doing this. So that's when I cancelled with her receptionist. I texted her and said "I can't do this pain anymore. I am taking a different route. Thank you for your time." She called immediately after that. I texted and said "I am okay, I am safe there's nothing to worry about." Then it went on from there. I truly meant to quit. When I said she acted as a used car salesman what I meant was she was selling the therapy to me. She told me that she totally understood why I was discouraged and that she understood why I would want to walk away after all I had been through but that she had something very different to offer me. I guess this shows I have a lot of work to do.

I keep thinking about this thread.

I think it is probably confusing. Like it may appear that things went badly but the truth is they went well. My T knows the disorder I have and she knows how to work with it. In deed she guarantees complete recovery if I do the work and stick with it for the next year or so. So I was thinking you guys encouraged me to text or call her and I did. Then I report back that I quit with her. Then she calls and I don't answer. Then I answer then she talks me into staying and getting better. I can see how this would all seem so dramatic and like it didn't work out. It is complicated and I just want to assure you guys that it did go well.

The big thing about bpd is that what you see on the outside (the behaviors etc) are not what is going on on the inside. For decades people have attributed the behaviors as direct indicators of intentions on the BPD's part. This is not the case. What it is is BPDs have a hard time regulating their emotions so they do all these crazy things to try to get control of them which only makes things worse usually. Their intentions are not to manipulate even if it seems that way. Their intentions are to get control of their emotions but this is usually done in a maladaptive way. I just demonstrated that maladaption here. (not intentionally but that is what happened now that I look back on it) what this therapy is going to help me with is learning how to regulate my emotions in effective socially acceptable ways. It sounds so easy for most folks and perhaps for some it is easy. For me it is not. It is a challenge. The brains of people with BPD show abnormalities that are believed to contribute to this disorder usually. I may or may not have that abnormality. It is a biologically and environmentally based disorder. Actually most mental illness is biologically and environmentally based.

The good news here is that my T and I are figuring out how I operate and what to do about it. You guys helped me with that even if it seems like things went awry. I know that when I meet with T again that we will dive into what happened in an indepth manner that will help me understand it and help me get to a better place.

I want to assure you that even if it seems like this crashed it did not. There is more hope now than ever. I am determined to heal. I finally have a T who is as determined as I am.

Hi Turtle,

I'm a wee bit concerned you might have construed my question as wondering whether you were being 'manipulative' in not picking up the phone. Just wanted to reassure you that wasn't where my train of thought was going. I was really just curious about how things panned out - I think I am just a bit nosey sometimes!

Having done some fairly 'nutty' stuff to try and get control over the kind of pain where I wondered whether I was actually going to expire from its intensity, I really feel what you say about it looking different from the outside, when what is going on inside is totally different from how most people would interpret it.

Your opinion on the situation is what really matters, from where I'm sitting at least. You're absolutely the best judge on whether the situation went well for you. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

No not at all Mallard. I did not think you were saying that about me. In fact I forgot to say thank you!! You helped me reflect on what happened. Because of your question I was able to go back and think about it and you have helped me arrive at a really good place.

(((Mallard)))

quote:

Having done some fairly 'nutty' stuff to try and get control over the kind of pain where I wondered whether I was actually going to expire from its intensity, I really feel what you say about it looking different from the outside, when what is going on inside is totally different from how most people would interpret it.

YES YES YES!! You get it. Exactly. I can't tell you how much and for how long I have HATED myself for my behaviors and reactions. I am finally learning to have compassion and to take a non-judgemental look into what I do and why I do it. To look into what motivates me etc. Let's face it this pain between sessions etc is excruciating for so many of us. It eats me alive sometimes. Someone just showed me the door with an exit sign to escape this pain IN A GOOD WAY. I am want to run for it, but I have been told that it takes time and a lot of learning and lot of therapy etc. So I see that exit sign with a lot of crap between me and it. If I can figure this out I think I will light my own world afire. lol. Some day I want to make a living on my artwork and on sales. I want to be able to do this and have a family etc. As it is I have isolated for way too long. Took care of my dying parents for 10 years and now I am hoping that the rest of my life can be shaped by me!

Yes I do think it went well. Do I want to go through this again with my T? No absolutely not. I don't want to quit on her every other week etc. What we will look at is how I can do this differently etc. I am pretty sure of that. Yet at the same time I am standing on the edge of the pool about to dive in. We have not made the formal commitments yet and once they are written up and signed I guess I will have to learn how to sit through and not quit.

Thanks so much Mallard for sticking with me on this!

Okay, phew, it looks like we're on the same page!!

I carry some shame too about some of the things I have done to try and feel okay. I know why I behaved in certain ways and I do try to have some compassion for the wounded parts of me - I guess I work from the principle that people are doing the best they can, given the resources (both internal and external) they have available to them. Funny though, I'm not always so great at applying that principle to myself and how I have lived my life!

I'm glad you're trying to have some compassion for yourself and take a non-judgemental view on why you feel and act the way you do.

((turtle))
i just wanted to say that your new T sounds wonderful! i'm sorry you're going through a lot of pain but it seems like you have such a hopeful outlook and are so determined, its really amazing! i think you are amazing to bounce back like that after that old b****h, i mean, T did to you!

i know a bit about the pain you talk about, and i have also 'quit' on ocassion, when i just didnt know what to do to make it go away.

wow, so great to hear about your upcoming exhibition, i hope it goes really well, dont forget to update us!

puppet

Wow Mallard you are miles ahead of me. I am so glad you can give yourself that kind of understanding and compassion. That is my goal. I am guessing that self compassion is the key to handling the pain in a way that is not so shaming to me.

Puppet!! So cool to see you post here. I think my new T is very skilled. She is different than anyone I have seen before. She is very blunt and told me she is very blunt. I said "I am starting to figure that out." and she laughed. However I can tell she's scaled back a bit with me at least for now because I thought she was mad at me. I am now understanding this is her style. She will ask you about something until you answer her. I mean at one point I was grabbing my head saying "I don't know!" She finally backed up and said "It's okay. It's okay." She was talking about dissociation at that point. Right now our goal is to stabilize before we ever even consider getting into that. Thanks for commenting on my resiliency. I can't tell you how often I want to give up.

I have to commit to therapy for the next year and I have to commit not to quit among other things. I asked her what would happen if I did quit and she said that Marsha Linehan would hunt me down. lol


Had to edit a typo...
Yeah this will be my first time showing in a gallery. I hope it goes well. I can't believe that I am not nervous at all about it. I thought I would be falling apart over it but it's like something I have to check off on my list of things to do.

I am chatty. sorry for the long reply. I will keep you guys updated for sure.