As survivors of abuse I think be of the largest challenges is allowing other people to care, like, appreciate, love because as you're saying here - it's scary and hasn't worked well in the past.

I too often feel like my Ts care and express too much - it doesn't make me want to run but it does make me take a couple steps back, to gaze at them suspiciously (sorta like a cautious cat). I think Ts cater boundaries to each client but ultimately genuinely care for, like and express that in some manner to all of them - so know you are not alone and knowing he is safe. I think one of the biggest contributors to my trusting T2 was watching her interact with others an seeing oh... It is genuine, it is safe, she does give freely. To extend that trust to T1 I had to keep repeating it. Maybe that is helpful, maybe not but it's helped meager even a toe over the "I dot deserve you, I'm suspicious of your intent" block.

Yaku,
Forgive the shortness but I'm on my way out to a dentist appt (just a cleaning! ) but I think this post on my blog would really speak to this: Hmmm, knowing it was love didn't have quite the effect I expected.

AG

quote:

Does anyone else here ever feel like your T cares too much, approves of you too much, likes you too much, gives you too much?

Yes, I frequently have a hard time with feeling like T cares too much. I've been thinking about that lately, and I believe it may be because I've shut down any emotional responses on my own part towards certain events in my past, so if T is at all emotionally expressive when hearing about them, I become suspicious or scared as a kind of defense. I think, "I clearly don't care all that much about this, why should you?" Displays of compassion and concern from her tend to make me become more remote. It's almost as though I feel safer with indifference.

quote:

How do you tell if those things really are too much or if it's just more distortions from past neglect and abuse?

I'm not sure how one would go about being really objectively certain of this, but lately I have been engaging in a little imaginary exercise that has helped me. What I do is try to relive part of a session very vividly. (I find it easy to get lost in thoughts, memories, and daydreams like this so for me it isn't too hard). I'll replay it in a lot of detail, trying to really see it in my mind's eye and make it seem real. I'll experience myself talking and watching T, listening to her replies. Then (and this takes a real effort of concentration) I'll replay the scene again but try to imaginatively switch my consciousness over to T. I become T, listening to my stories for the first time, hearing myself speak, watching me, taking it all in. I find when I'm able to successfully imagine myself in her place listening to me, I see things differently and feel much more strongly. It's like I'm kind of hit with a second hand pain. All of a sudden, her reactions begin to seem normal instead of overblown and inappropriate, whereas my own emotions seem a bit stunted and repressed (which they are).

Anyway, this little exercise in trying to imagine things from her perspective has been helping (some) in letting me receive her care as real and appropriate. I'm sure I still have a ways to go in that regard but it's getting a little easier.

(((Yaku)))

All the best,
Heldincompassion

Thanks to all who replied. Sorry it has taken me a bit to get back here. I had a monster therapy-hangover migraine all day yesterday and seem to be fighting off another one today.

Cat - that's a great description of sitting back like a cautious animal. I've used a similar description with my T before. That really is kind of what it feels like. Or at least, between the push to stay close and the pull to run, I average out in just observing and trying not to make any sudden moves that get myself noticed. I wish I could see T interacting with others (well, other than my H, who he takes a kick-your-butt attitude with sometimes for good reason, meeting everyone where they need to be met). I know he is generous with others, because he had some random person who was another T's client come and interrupt a session once, because she was in crisis for a while, couldn't get a hold of her T and needed to see "just anyone," and he scheduled to hang around later (on a day that he was only in the office to see me and one other client) in order to meet with her (though he did make her wait quite a while, since we had a longish session planned that day). Anyway, I know he would be generous with anyone he saw in need and that helps.

AG - I just (re-)read that one and yes, it definitely resonates. The fact that in less than two years of knowing me and about one of working really closely/intensely, he seems to have provided more supportive/safe care than all my caretakers combined kind of makes me feel ill. It feels like maybe he is the one who is wrong (for caring that much) if nobody else could be bothered about it.

HIC - Yeah, the dissociation makes for a fun game of, "Why the hell do you care?" with T at times. But, when other parts are interacting, they obviously do care...and then he cares EVEN MORE. It seems they will cry for all of five seconds and then shut down in fear or numbness. So, when he continues to emote (even in a less intense, neutral sort of way), it can be distressing. That imaginary exercise would work well for the times I'm fully present in session. I'll try it definitely. I don't know what to do for nights like Wednesday, when I remember about all of five minutes of an hour. T ends up with a lot of "why," from me, as in "Why are you doing so much?" or "Why do you care?" or "Why is it OK to offer what you do?" but I can never understand his answers. I mean, intellectually, I get them and a lot of them are spiritual concepts, but emotionally, it feels like it doesn't fit or belong with me...it's just not something I'm supposed to have and that belief is so intrinsic at this point that I don't know how to understand why he would allow himself so close.

Monte - Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. It is precisely the closeness that has me in this dilemma, observation of the tiniest shifts or a squeeze or something. It's really hard to write about on the OF, as you know, as it is very vulnerable and also I don't want to offend/hurt anybody else. You'd figure enough times of being comforted or explicitly told his positive feelings and I would get over it being terrifying, but it just does not. it still feels as if I've "made him do something bad." And I suspect that might be something I don't fully remember yet, as the debilitating fear of the L-word seems to be (not isolated, but) centered in one particular part who took a lot of the worst stuff. Almost like the word itself was a precursor to something really awful and I hope that is wrong. Anyway, a lot of it is definitely accepting something that can be lost is terrifying. Due to my mom's many, many partners, there were so many partially formed and then aborted attachments in my early childhood, at least one very unsafe. It's almost like I broke a bone when I was little and while it was setting and healing, she came along and broke it...again and again. So, T gets too near that injury and I start wincing and trembling and crying out in pain, no matter how gently and carefully he tends it. That's how it feels.

xoxo - I bet some of it is counter-transference with my T. I know he not only has resonance with this particular part in terms of his own past pain (though he has only shared vaguely understanding the feelings from experience when he was young), but that I remind him very much of a previous client with this diagnosis. I finally asked about her recently and found out he was not able to help her as much as he would have liked, due to her relocating and other issues, so I sometimes feel as if I've got a sort of sixth sense thing going on with him. At the same time, I do believe he is very aware of all this stuff and examining it and also that he is weighing what he feels is the right thing to do, both from a therapeutic and a spiritual perspective. I guess the difference between him and I is that he is a million times more OK with his own feelings (loving and wanting to be loved--not necessarily by me, but in general) than I am. You are right that it does feel like it is coming more into my awareness before it fades away. Thanks for putting a positive perspective on that!

Sometimes I wonder if thinking our Ts have positive/negative counter transference is a type of transference in itself, or says something about what we desire, expect, fear, who we really are, etc. It's nice when a T can be direct by saying "I feel _____" but when they aren't I really think our deductions on what they must feel about the unspoken things do is revealing. What one person assumes differentiates their experience may make another person feel differently. I remember when I first started therapy I was offended ( ) my T called to check on me one day [I thought who is this woman she must think I'm stupid and incapable (i.e.: she must have overwhelming amounts of negative counter transference)].

Anyway, I'm glad you can see your T is generous with other too. I think sometimes the feeling of specialness or doting (based on whatever an individuals definition of "too much" is) can be very triggering - especially when you're talking about feeling like you've made him do "something bad". Some types of abuse people have experienced include a certain level of grooming. I know I get triggered when people try to offer me in excess of what I think is too much because it immediately puts them in an abuser category - I don't go in to self-punishing but rather self-preservation. I don't feel like the 'too much' is ill gotten but rather ill received so I think I may not be relating to you perfectly here but I do get it.

Sorry for such a long reply I just read a lot of me receiving = danger and was thinking maybe it makes it worse if you feel like you're getting too much/special stuff. NOT for everyone though, obviously!! I believe most people give freely, but people giving in excess of what I feel is a safe amount makes me feel objectified/sexualized and therefore extremely in need of my safety. So maybe T can help you normalize receiving and (if it wouldn't hurt you or be detrimental to your work) to also normalize his giving. I think for some people it is really healing to feel very doted on by their Ts - as I've progressed I don't much mind the extra things my Ts are willing to do I think a lot of people going through missing developmental steps too need to ground more in the uniqueness of their relationship w/ T rather than the samenesses in their relationship. I found grounding in the sameness to feel safe... now its morphed in to new things to tackle.

Hope your headache is gone. Sheesh sorry this was long. I started musing a bit too much. I just saw my T about 4hrs ago and she's on vacation and I miss her so I think this next week will be seeing 5+ paragraph responses from me while I try to deal!

Hi all...not writing much lately, but I can relate. For me...love hurts because I don't trust it enough to let it wash over me and comfort me. Therapy seems to have reached a plateau. T is as special as always...but no more growth. Hanging on to him now is really pointless. For me... So tired of the dependency...and the relationship seems to be just that. He tries, and I know he cares, but I think I am brain damaged from early childhood abandonment and rejection and unable to take in that nurturing love

Without trust...I cannot seem to grow...and I can't seem to grasp ahold of how to trust enough. So as not to be black and white...I will see T sometimes. Sorry to be such a downer, but this is life as I know it...at least for now. Great topic- makes me work again.

I have had to think about this for a few days and will need to re-read it all. It was a bit too close to home at the time.

I have found that the more my T has made changes for me ie showing compassion, kindness, care and attention - the less I eye contact her. She can see inside me more and this is another layer of discomfort. I think I don't look at her much so I don't have to see that care. If i see her care - then it means I have to reciprocate on some level - and I avoid all people, relationships and deep stuff.

We also have a kind of friend relationship - when we have our therapy hats off, I have absolutely no qualms about eye contacting her, speaking about all sorts of things, being in close proximity and when we walk - hell we even touch. We were in a crowded shop one day and we were an inch apart and needing to speak really closely as it was noisy. But in that therapy room where she is paying attention to me - and I guess it is a level of being intimate - I am totally shut off and on guard, waiting for the bad to happen. Care and love = danger and pain.

I often say to her 'why are you so nice to me, why are you doing it, why would you care' - etc all along those lines. I have been so desensitised to accepting kindness that it is a bad thing and there is always a catch.

HIC, i liked your technique - very interesting way to think about it. I think I would be horrified to be in her place and to look at me to be honest. But something I should try to do.

SD

I sure would like to have a T who would see me every week for the rest of my life!! Providing he/she was ethical about it.
I had many times in hospital and saw psychiatrists & PhD's, and seems it always was just business-like, just listening to me to see if the meds were working (Ugh!)

I finally figured out things all by myself and got a hold on life. But I could talk about my inner world forever if someone would just show an interest and understand things I say!

Sorry I've ignored my own thread for so long. Something came up today and I have started to realize another reason it bothers me and it is just because of some inappropriate joking by H that made me feel another layer of there being something wrong with feeling liked, cared about, special to T. I talked to T about ad nauseum today and to H tonight and I think we're all on the same page about him avoiding those triggering teases, so I am feeling a little less stressed about it. Sometimes they are really bad. Sometimes it is just that H thinks that T acts like I am the best woman in the world or something and says stupid stuff like, "Well, in the future, when he marries you, he'll figure out what you're really like." He just thinks it's funny because it gets a reaction out of me, but to me (and kid parts) it's traumatizing, 'cause it's like saying my dad is interested in me, yuck. T totally didn't understand this dynamic had been going on since the beginning and seemed really taken aback by it and reiterated the safety and also the ok-ness of caring and connecting like we do within the framework of therapy. It calmed me down a lot and I was actually able to have big me hug today without feeling like I needed to flee or dissociate. I think outside of my H and daughter, he's the only person I've been able to manage that with. That was really nice.

xoxo - Yeah, that is kind of sweet, seeing a therapists attachment from the outside in a while. I feel so bad for this other client. I won't post exactly what happened with her on the OF, but I really wish he could have helped her more. My heart hurts for both of them what happened. There's no way it didn't impact him deeply, even if it was nothing he did or could have done.

Mayo - I'm glad you wrote here, even if you can't often! Don't worry about being such a downer. I know what you mean about feeling damaged in some sort of fundamental way that does not seem like it can be transcended. I do hope someday the light will pierce through and you'll be able to take a little bit in. When that happens with me, I remember why I am going. There are whole areas of human existence I shut out trying to stay safe from pain and dependency.

SD - Yes, I so get that. The more compassion, the less I can look. Today, no kids were out and he felt bad for something bad that happened (my own doing, but he knew it was upsetting to me) and was gently patting my arm and I felt like I wanted to completely disappear. If we are talking band practice or movies or sports or any number of other things, I could probably horse around with him, make full eye contact, nudge him or hit him with a pillow or anything like that. If things get close emotionally, tunnel vision toward the floor or coffee table or some such thing.

Skylynx - Sheesh, that sounds nice. I think if I knew I could have my T for the rest of my life just every week to sit and be with, well, never going to happen, but I think the goal is as I integrate, I will be able to form other relationships who can be that week-to-week person for me without it being so threatening. And for it to be give and take thing too would make easier, to share my inner experiences and hear theirs as well. Someday, I hope I can do that without being terrified of getting close. Maybe in a few decades.