quote:

I am concerned about pushing her away before she goes and having that disruption. I am also concerned about pushing her away when she returns. That happened the last time she was away and that was only a long weekend!!

STRM I definitely do this. I do it some before he goes but that is more of a matter of shutting myself down, not exactly pushing him away but being afraid to open anything painful or complicated because then I have to sit with those awful feelings all alone for 16 days. When he comes back I am relieved to see him but I definitely push him away because I'm angry that he abandoned me and went off with the people he REALLY cares about (as opposed to a tiresome awful patient like me) and I just won't talk to him very much. It usually takes me 2 or 3 sessions before we get back to real work again.

@UV... sorry to hear about your regression. I hope things are smoothing out for you now. Thanks for the idea. It sounds like fun and also a way to express yourself and keep yourself busy. Also a connection back to your T. I may do something like that, maybe less complicated but a creative expression of our relationship.

Some of the things I have been thinking about using to help me get through his time away are:

Journaling about how I'm feeling every day that he is gone so I can share some of it with him when he returns.

Definitely posting here to vent and ask for support and try to help others as well.

Using the crisis line if it becomes necessary and hoping I get someone as smart and caring as AG on the end of the line.

Going away for a few days to "try" to have fun and distract myself from thoughts of T. I don't expect to NOT miss him but hopefully that desperate feeling will not be as intense.

Set up a meeting with a back up T. I don't really know how much this will help to talk to someone who has NO idea of who I am or what I am struggling with but maybe I'll be surprised. At least it's someone I can vent to without feeling guilty. Also, since only a very few people (like 3) know I'm in therapy it will give me an additional person to talk to.

Try something new or different. Still working on that.

Take the Ativan if I need it to stay calm.

There are a few things I want to ask my T for. A few things that HE needs to do for me so that we can insure together that I can handle his absence. I want to ask him for the first appointment when he gets back and I need him to write it down on the back of his business card so I can keep it with me.

I would like him to handwrite me a note with some of this thoughts about how he sees me getting through this separation. Maybe some quotes, or encouragement or reassurance. Maybe writing down that he WILL come back and we will be okay.

I'd also like him to give me some homework or an assignment. Something that will enable me to feel connected to him and that I am working on something for him/us. I will leave that to him to decide.

Lastly, I was thinking of asking him for something of his, nothing valuable but something significant to him that I can hold onto only until he returns and then I will give it back to him. Sort of like... I know he will come back because he will return for (blank) which means a lot to him. It's also a tangible something that I can hold onto.

That's about all I can think of for now. I hope to be able to present my thoughts to him when I see him Tuesday. I need to do this so that he will have some time to do his part. I will see him twice after Tuesday before he goes away. Once is Thursday (night before my surgery) and I need that session for surgery discussion. Then I will see him before he leaves a week after my surgery and that's when I'm hoping he will give me what he decides he can.

My hope is that with these plans in place we can get through the separation with no contact or him worrying about me and how i'm doing. I may also ask him if it would be okay to call his office voice mail and leave a message not expecting anything back from him but just to talk to him and let him know how I'm doing.

I'd be interested in any comments or suggesions or ideas from anyone else and I'm also hoping that these suggestions/ideas may be of help to others out there who are also struggling with upcoming T vacations.

TN

True North

Nice to "meet" you

Sorry for your pain about this. I`ll try to answer your questions (from your first post i think) as well as i can (with my -soon-to-be-better-english)

Before vacation My T and I used al lot of time simply talking about my anxiety about the upcoming seperation before summer. Talk, talk , talk.

Then He encuraged me to write. Write a diary for the days (6 weeks vacation!)(I told him about a fantasy of mine: That He would recieve this post card from me in summer..Thats how it started and devolped to a acually good practical advice!) In that way, I would find a way to (a tool!) to communicate my inner things, and it helped writing as i knew my T was going to read it when we met again.

This also took away the need to call him or text him in summer. I would never done that anyway (dont wanna disturb his vacation) but I really felt more connected with my T during this time (only 1 week left before I see him again now) because of the diary writing..

Maybe you can try out something like that?? Whatever works for you..

For me i learned that the time BEFORE the seperation is the hardest part... WHEN the last session before vacation is over..You can allready begin to count down days `till you see your T again..instead of counting days till "the last session!" You see??

It also helped me to let my T know details about my days.. My plans and everything. Shear your conserns and worries, and let your T help you make some "correction-thinking" before you leave.

For me it was very hard before this vacation as well. I just got into a car-accident before my last session- and therefor I wasnt able to arrive the last apt. I had to call my T from the hospitale, late the day before our apt, and tell him "I`m Ok, but i just got hit by a car.. I have to stay here in the hospitale for a while..I m so sad I cant see you to morrow.. I wanted so much to say good summer and everything.." Yes, that was it. Never even got my last session. Just a very short conversation pr phone..

Good luck to you. Do what you have to, do what helps you the most.

TN,

I like your plans for preparing for your break. My T just told me he's going away for 2.5 weeks in September. When he asked me to talk about the feelings that came up when he told me the other day, all I could say - in a bit of a snit - was, "well, I'll probably fall apart like I did last time and just feel even more wretched than I do most days." I also said, "you're the only person I can really talk to. I need you around so we can talk, and when you go away, it messes that all up and gets me out of my routine."

He said, "you know, I see you're immediately looking at that giant fire instead of looking at me, and talking to me about how you FEEL about me leaving, and what those feelings might look like. You're just looking at the fire getting bigger and bigger without trying to find out WHY the fire is so fierce." "The fire" is his word for my mountain of worry about how I'll feel when we're on a break, not my actual symptoms of anxiety, if that makes any sense.

I said, "it feels like you're abandoning me." He said, "ok, let's stay with that, see if we can see that as clearly as we can." But that's all I'm ever able to get to: I feel abandoned. I can't bring any more depth to the feeling or where it comes from. All I can do is speculate about why I feel this way, reaching back to having basically been left alone emotionally as a kid. But, those memories and feelings are all still so vague. I won't really let myself miss him yet. It sucks, because in place of that is a worse feeling.

But, that break isn't until September 21, so between now and then I'm going to try like hell to actually allow myself to feel something REAL for this man other than my projected, pushing-away anger from my Dad. I'll probably ask about seeing his colleague once or twice, too. He's also an excellent T.

TN, this might sound like a strange question, but do you remember when/how you started having these feelings of attachment to your T? I mean, like missing him between sessions and on breaks, feeling sad that you're not a part of his "real" family, and just genuine feelings of affection for him? Did it happen naturally, or did you have to work at it? I have to work at letting my wall down, but it just feels so odd to have to work at such a thing. My T says I need to start taking some risks with getting closer to him, but I'm not sure what he means by that.

Did you one day just realise that you have intense love for your T, and all the feelings that come along with that?

I feel like such an emotional novice that I can't even feel any kind of tender feeling for this person who's been trying like hell to help me for over two years.

Thanks,
Russ

STRM,

Thanks for the reply. I can almost feel the wall I keep up to keep my T (and other people) out. I think it's all tied in to how I see myself as a person. God know, that has to change.

Thanks,
Russ

Russ I've been seeing my T for nearly 4 years and i felt my first bit of attachment about 2 months ago. She told me she was going on holiday (i didnt expect it)and was in bits. I remember crying and saying I didnt want her to go, I even phoned her the next day (never done it before)We spent the next 3 sessions talking about what i was feeling.

She is on holiday now for 6 weeks and this time I've shut down, I don't think i miss her or maybe i will not let myself miss her.

Russ when i read your posts i think you sound so much like me. All i know is therapy is hard and sometimes i feel i will never get 'it'

Hev

Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread.

Russ, I started feeling attached to my T even before he was my T. He was still my son's T and I realized that I could not wait to get to the next therapy session because I would feel so good. It was like a drug I needed. It took all of 3 weeks to become attached to him. Then a month later I asked to see him individually and he agreed and this was 2.5 years ago. His first summer vacation after I saw him for 6 months was not too bad. I missed him a lot and I emailed him once... he did not answser because he did not have email access but I didn't know that. But the following summer I really freaked out and then the following Christmas vacation I sort of did the same. It was very painful not to see him and neither of us handled this very well. And now I find myself in the awful place now of being extremely attached to him and terrified that he will abandon me. All the talk of my seeing another T and that he is not good enough for me added to the fact that I have surgery on Friday and we are not on solid ground is really painful for me.

Wish me luck all. I am going in tomorrow to talk about my vacation coping strategies and that I am also agreeing to see another T for a ONE TIME visit while he's gone to allay his fears of leaving me in this unstable place. I found a T who would be willing to see me one time if my T calls him and briefs him on stuff. They do know each other and he is a HE which is important to me.

But right now I'm dealing with an email I got from T today switching around both my appointment tomorrow and the one on Thursday which I purposely set up late in the day so I could see him before surgery. We had some back and forth about changing times and he has not done this in a long time with me so it's making me feel really scared that he does not want to see me and is making it hard for me for some reason.

Of course, there could be a very good excuse for his doing this but he won't tell me (stupid idiotic boundaries ) and so my imagination is running wild. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. I'm really scared right now.

TN

TN, hang in there. sounds like a tough patch, just keep your eyes focused forward and don't look over the edge. kind of this boat imagery someone told me that helps when the waters are rough.

((TN)) i am sorry you have these two things hitting at the same time. you can do it. you will move through it. like your quote. just don't focus on the rough waters over the side. steady and forward. hang in there. jill

Thanks, Jill. My T actually gave me that quote when we were really solid and doing amazing work together. We both like quotes and that was the first one of many many that he has given me over the past year. It really means a lot to me and I've tried really hard to follow it for both of us. But lately, any courage I've built over time in working together has been sorely tested and I'm just really tired.

I'll try to hang on and I'm trying to be ever hopeful that tomorrow will bring something good... finally.... to my session.

TN

((((((((((True North))))))))))

Good luck tomorrow, dear TN. I am sorry your T changed your times unexpectedly like that...the twists and turns just keep coming without respite, it seems, when that is just the opposite of what you are looking for...and I wish I could make them stop for you, I really do. I hope your sessions tomorrow and Thursday hold no more surprises, and that they give you the comfort and stability you need. As for the other T, I hope your meeting with him goes as well as possible, under the circumstances.

Big hugs to you,
SG

((((TN)))))

Good luck with your appointment today. I hope that your session today goes well and brings you some peace about all of the changes going on right now.

I know I promised to let you all know what happened today. I don't know how much I can tell you all because my heart is heavy with pain. It was not a terrible session and there were a few bright spots but I just feel so sad and I think being nervous about Friday and then having him leave for such a long time has me unable to see anything good in anything that I'm dealing with. If that makes any sense. Lately, I'm not sure if I make sense about anything. I think I'm in that awful head fog of fear that Russ always talks about. It's quite paralyzing.

I went to the session with my Vacation Strategy notes... a copy for me and one for him. I also took with me copies of two short stories from a wonderful book given to me by a dear friend called "Kitchen Table Wisdom".

When I walked into his office I put my purse down and as he closed the door I turned towards him and put out both of my hands with the palms up. He looked at me for a second and seemed puzzled so I again stretched my arms out towards him and he took both my hands and asked "what are we doing?" and I said "we are connecting". He held my hands until I broke the connection and he said "I thought you were healing me" and I told him "maybe I was". We sat down and made a bit of small talk and then I told him that I did not take an Ativan because they were causing me to be unable to think straight and speak articulately. He asked me how I felt on them and what dosage I was taking. Then I told him I wanted to discuss vacation but first I would like to read him something if he didn't mind. He said not at all and so I pulled out the stories. These stories are very moving and there was a definite message in both of them that I needed him to hear. The book is written by a woman MD who is now a therapist for people who are dying. She wrote about how it is not expertise that heals but compassion and understanding and acceptance. She describes going to a seminar by Dr. Carl Rogers and his Unconditional Positive Regard message. She talks of how being whole and human with someone allows them to know themselves and how listening is the most important thing and how wounded people can know and heal other wounded people....it goes on but it's very poignant and I was really struggling with reading it without breaking down. I did not want to cry in front of him because I have been doing that so much lately and last week he seemed to lose his patience with my tears and sort of very firmly told me to stop crying. So I finally got through the story with a lot of stops and starts and trying to breathe. Then I told him I needed to read another one. I gave him a copy of it.

This story was about a man who has cancer and is dying and how he goes to see his oncologist for chemo shots and how much he loves just being able to talk to his doctor and tell him things that no one else wnanted to hear or could understand. After awhile he realizes that the chemo is not working and askes the doctor if he could stop the shots and just come to talk to him for 15 minutes each week. The doctor gruffly tells him that if he does not take the chemo shot there is nothing that he could do for him/offer him and they could not talk any longer. The man goes on to say how his doctor's love is so much more important than the medicine and how much it meant to him but that his doctor did not know. The woman who describes the story said she did not know either (this man was her therapy client) that a doctor's love could mean more than is expertise and ability to cure. She said it was a real lesson for her. But the end of the story is this.... the doctor was ALSO her client and suffered from deep depression because he felt that no one cared about him. That he was only a white coat, a morgage payment for his wife and a tuition check for his son and if he disappeared no one would miss him. The author goes on to write that this doctor, because he felt he could not cure the man's cancer, was also unable to receive the love that was offered to him.

That's the gist of it. It's very moving and poignant and as I was reading it I just broke down.... I tried....I really tried to finish the story but I stopped and was trying to catch my breath when all of a sudden... my T starts reading the story TO ME! In his soft and gentle voice... the old voice that I used to hear all the time... he read to me about how relationships are what matters most even at the edge of life itself...and I sat there in shock wanting to hold onto this moment forever. When he finished he put down the papers and we looked at each other and he said that was very poignant. I nodded. We sat there a minute and then I got nervous and told him I had to talk about vacation.

So I went over all my plans and what "I" would do to cope and then I got to the part where i needed to ask him for things. He stopped me and said..what if I can't provide them? And I told him it was only a request not a demand and he could refuse. I asked him for a note, an appointment on his business card and a token to hold onto as a transitional object that I would return to him. It's not much. At least I don't think so. He didn't say much about anything but he did write my appointment for after his vacation in his book... Sept 1st. He also took notes on his pad which has not done for a good while and I gave him the papers I had typed up. He said it looked like I had my support in place and that I was moving ahead in growing because I could do that. I whispered that I still needed him too. And he said he knew that.

We talked about boundaries a bit and how confused I am that he is changing them all on me and all at once. Or at least I talked he didn't say much. He alluded at one point that he is thinking that he may have trouble treating my son now... I don't know why and I got scared again... really scared and told him I felt sick. I was afraid he was going to make me chose between my son and myself as his patient. He said he didn't want to get into things too much because he was mindful of my upcoming surgery and we could talk more in September when he got back. That only made me feel sicker because I have to live for a month w/o knowing what is on his mind.

he also noted that while I say I have meds they are not the ones HE feels would be most helpful to me... meaning A/Ds which I won't take. I would think he could be a little supportive that I'm taking anything right now. That was a HUGE HUGE concession on my part to ask for anti-anxiety meds. He thinks I'm depressed... I'm not I'm scared. He does not get that I'm so afraid I'm losing my attachment figure that I cannot think straight and no drug is going to solve this for me.

He did tell me that I'm a strong and very resilient woman. When he calls me a woman I wonder who he's talking about because I don't see myself like that... especially with him... I'm that terrified little girl who needs her Dad who is angry at her right now. Or at least it feels that way. I told him I feel like he just got up one day and decided that he hates me. He said he does not hate me ... okay he just detests me then... I don't know... it all feels so confusing. At one point he said he understood what I was trying to do ... trying to say to him and I asked...what am I trying to say? And he pointed to the stories on his table and said to me... what it say in the stories... that is whay you are trying to tell me. Okay... so I'm trying to tell him that his love is more important than his trauma experience? Or am I telling him that I love him? What exactly did he get from all of that? He wouldn't say and I was too afraid to pursue it.

He talked to me a bit about surgery and said it would all be fine and that I would surprise myself how well it all goes for me. And I told him that I needed to feel him in there with me and he said the connection is there... he is there and I could take him in whatever way I could into surgery with me.

By the end I was not feeling better nor feeling worse... just still scared and unsure. I got up and on the way out I offered my hand for a handshake and he took it and held it awhile and looked at me sort of teary (he was teary in session as well) and said... nothing is as bad as I'm thinking it is. I don't really know what he meant by that but at least I left there with the feeling of him holding my hand and looking at me with a softness in his eyes instead of anger.

I will see him again on Thursday at 4pm. After my surgery I see him once more the following Thursday and then he leaves for 19 days. This is the longest I'll be without him ever and even though I have made all those plans... I'm still scared that I can't do this and I have no choice. I can't contact him and I will just have to tough it out.

Thanks for listening.
TN

I just wanted to add that I don't know what's left to say on Thursday. I am afraid to talk about anything and right now I feel myself already shutting down and going to the numb frozen place. How do I handle walking away from him and into surgery? And then knowing he's leaving for 19 days the following week? What is left to say?

TN

OH TN.......
Tears streaming down my face for you. I think whatever your body needs to do right now - shutting down, numbing is what it needs to do to help you through this painful time, TN.

I know how scared you are to have this surgery and I wish I could do something to ease your fear. I really hope you can take the feeling of your Ts hand in yours and the connection you felt with him into the OR with you. He will be with you. And know that we will all be thinking of you as well. All of that positive energy HAS to help a little doesn't it?

Gosh, I really wish I could make this better for you - I can feel your pain so deeply.

Please be kind and gentle to yourself. And know we are here!!

Seablue... I'm so sorry for making you cry but it means a lot that you tell me to allow my body to do what it needs to do. Everyone else is telling me I have to be a certain way and I'm exhausted fighting with myself and my automatic defense system. It's been a really long month of stress in therapy when what I needed most was a secure place to talk about my fears, and someone who could offer support and empathy. Instead I used most of my energy and strength on things I should not have had to spend energy on. I'm pretty depleted right now and resigned to whatever happens. It's actually crazy to think I have control over ANYTHING in my life and I'm worrying about surgery? It's not like I have never felt scared, powerless and threatened before. What is one more time?

Thank you so much for responding. It seems that the Board is pretty dead just when I need it the most.. this week and throughout the three weeks following when my T is gone.

I hope things are okay with you, SB.

TN

TN,

I agree with SB that you have to do whatever your body needs to do right now to get through this. I can see why you are feeling so depleted right now. I'm sorry that everything is happening all at once.

Please keep us posted. I hope that your last session before the surgery goes well and brings you some peace and comfort.

Hi TN,

I've noticed too that the boards are pretty quiet. Earlier tonight, I thought I had suddenly figured it out - that you were all camping out on the "Intimate Discussions" thread! But when I got there, it was quiet, too. Shucks.

I am beyond sorry that your week has been so exhausting and frightening, when, like you said, you needed those resources for other things...I wish I had some answers for you...I just wanted to wish you the best tomorrow and Friday. I will be thinking of you. ((((((((TN))))))))

quote:

It's actually crazy to think I have control over ANYTHING in my life

You could also say it the other way...thinking that can sometimes make us crazy!!

Seriously though, TN...there is a TON of peace to be had in accepting what we have no control over (at least that is what I hear...now ask me how well I can do it myself!). I hope this doesn't sound like I'm offering you empty platitudes...this is something that really has brought me peace, even if only for a few moments (before I'm off and running again with worry or fear, etc.). If you were to ask my husband, he would confirm for you that I say the Serenity Prayer quite often. It is so simple, that the first time I heard it, I thought it was a joke. Seriously, I thought "...and the Wisdom to know the difference" was the punch line. So I laughed. But seriously...every time I am upset about something, I am either trying to change something I can't, or I am too afraid to try to change something I can (and usually need to). And I'm always getting the two mixed up...which would be the reason for that third line. So saying that little prayer does help center and refocus me, and sometimes helps me direct my energy toward what I can change, and helps direct my worry away from what I can't.

If this isn't helpful then please just ignore it...but it is what came to mind when I read your post. Please keep posting as much as you need to these next few weeks so we can help support you. And BTW...I will do what I can to help "liven up" the board, too!

Big hugs to you TN,
SG

Hi TN. I know the boards have been quiet... I just wanted you to know that I have been reading your thread and that I'm thinking of you. Wishing you the best for your surgery, and during your T's vacation.

Your T is right: Nothing is as bad as you think it is. The surgery will be a breeze compared to what you anticipate. And while being without your T for a long break will be painful, you will survive it. Best wishes.

Hi TN

I am guilty of reading but not responding lately I know, have been finding my own stuff difficult, and not knowing how or if to post...so go into quiet mode, which is my traditional coping method

But I have thought about you and your break from your T and the impeding surgery, and want to send you hugs and thoughts. Echo is right, you will come through this and it will be ok. The waiting is the very worst and you are a strong person who can do this. Take care TN,

starfish

TN,

Sorry I haven't chimed in in a bit. I've been out of town on vacation, trying to stay away from the computer . I'll also be away next week, but will have some internet access.

Thanks for answering my question about the development of your attachment to your T. Sounds like it was a totally natural and organic thing. This sounds strange, I know, but I admire - and envy - your ability to have such an open heart about your T. I know it's dreadfully painful at times like this, but I think it's a sign that you're actually very emotionally healthy, as opposed to being totally numb or not being able to be open to that connection. To me, it means that your healing is in progress.

When my T went away for the first time, I saw one of his colleagues twice. It was a huge help because it was clear that the other guy was also a really good T. In fact, I sometimes wonder if I'd prefer to see that T. He had a way about him that was really comforting. So, you never know. Seeing this other T to help get you through your break might be a better experience than you think. Having this third party to talk to about this painful stretch without your T might be surprisingly beneficial.

As far as what to say today in your session, that's a tough one. What about just going with exactly what you're feeling, even if that means just sitting there silent the whole time? I don't think you need to put a ton of pressure on yourself to "make this one count." Just go in and let whatever needs to happen happen.

Do you find yourself feeling really, really angry at your T for this break? I would. If you're angry, maybe just being angry would be good. My T is going away for 2.5 weeks next month and I'm already working on being really, really angry at him for him taking yet ANOTHER vacation. I think you and I have the same internal kid voice who's saying, "what about ME?" when these breaks come up. Maybe you could let that little kid just be today.

Keep us informed about your surgery and break.

Russ

Just a quick note to thank all of you on here for your support and kindness and encouragement. Thank you for listening to me go through this difficult time. I would be in way worse shape without all of you.

My session tonight was worse than I could have imagined it would be. We barely spoke of the surgery and aside from some small talk everything that went on in there just made me feel sick. I tried to talk about attachment and why I felt that we were struggling lately. I showed him SG's diagram which I found simple and concise. I thought he would see in clear pictures what he used to do SO right with me but he was not interested. He just told me I'm working too hard and I work for the both of us and that just imagine how wonderful it would be to share that with some other T who was into attachment/trauma issues. I told him I was not ready to give up on us and that I was mad at him because he didn't believe in us or me and he said he believed in me more than I do. But that is his way of saying I'm strong and don't need him.

I was just so hurt tonight because he refused those few things I asked of him to get me through vacation. I didnt even let him finish telling me because I was so upset. He told me to write the words down in MY own handwriting, the words that he has "given" me about me. The good stuff he has told me over the years. That I didn't need him to write them down because I already knew them. As for loaning me something of his... well he tried to give me back something "I" gave him as a gift awhile ago. I didn't agree with his reasoning which again was that I was strong and didn't need anything from him... all I needed was inside of me. Well inside of me feels like a hollow drum these days and not very helpful when facing surgery and a 3 week break. He was about to discuss the request to call his office phone and it sounded bad so I stopped him and said I don't want to hear anything else. I was preparing to leave when some crazy woman started banging on his office door!!!

I thought I was his last patient of the day because he had me change my appt time to earlier. I could only do 45 minutes earlier and it caused me great hardship at work and a fight with my boss to leave early today but I thought I would lose the chance to have a session so I did it. Imagine how wonderful it felt to know he gave my appointment to someone else! I had figured he had a family situation or something personal to attend to. I must have looked stricken when she banged on the door and then I got up to go.

He said... are you taking the (the thing he wanted to give me) __________ and I said no I don't want it. It felt like he was returning my gift or banishing my presence from his office. I had something I wanted to give him in a small pouch and I felt that if I left it there w/him I would have a reason to return something to get me through the surgery. So I dropped in on my chair so he would see it. But I have no idea if he ever did or the next woman sat on it or took it herself. Or maybe he threw it away.... I thought maybe he'd let me know somehow that I left something there....

He hugged me at the door but by that time I was so upset and wounded I could not even feel it.

He never asked me to call or offered to be there for support. He never said, let me know how it goes. He never said anything... and so I left.

I'm off to bed now. Have to report at 9:15 and stay overnight. I pray I will see you all here sometime this weekend if I'm up to it.

Thanks again
TN