It's Ok, Firefly- I am often in a similarly helpless-feeling place. However, you *do* have power, in that you have a voice, and the ability to say things. If you are having regular sessions with her, then you simply must speak your concerns- or if you are not finding it worth it to do that, then find a T who is a better match. Haha! It's easy for me to give advice, now, I should take my own! I feel like a total hypocrite saying this, since, if you've read my threads, I haven't managed to make myself do that myself, so many, many times. And it has probably wrecked my therapy. But even if you are really in a difficult place emotionally- all I'm saying is that it is *still possible* even if it doesn't feel like it. I wonder if you could voice some of these concerns if you asked her to turn her chair around? Or gave it to her in writing? Something.

I think the therapy is learning to do difficult things. Sometimes things that feel like they are really impossible. I'm in a battle like that of my own, different circumstances- but same concept. You can do it. You can find a way out of the mess you find yourself in, either by fixing things with your current T, or finding a T that is a better match for you. And it will be ok. I know how hard it is. It's really, really hard. One of the hardest things that you may have to face emotionally speaking. but if you do it, you *will* grow. Growing hurts like hell, but in the end it is worth it.

hug,

BB

deepfried--thank you for responding. I guess I just feel like everything I have to say would be only a cruel personal attack on her I wish I would say good things to her. It feels like, whatever I do, I drive people away.

blackbird--hah! thanks. you words are very comforting. I think I kind of wanted to hear, "Your T is totally messed up! You should switch!" But maybe it's okay you didn't say that.

I don't know. Sending her a brief, to-the-point e-mail seems to be the simplest way to move things along. Really, I'm just very upset about something that happened in her office in DECEMBER and I just want to talk about it, but instead we keep talking about everything BUT that. I'm embarrassed to say anything to her.

My T has never given me her e-mail address to send her an e-mail about my feelings. She gave it to me one time so I could send her some stuff about getting academic accommodations at school. It's 2 year later. Am I going to totally freak her out if I e-mail her? Is it inappropriate? Do I just have to talk to her during the sessions? I think she gave me that e-mail address before she realized how tumultuous and sensitive I actually am...

Uhgh, I just thought about it, and I realized I don't even know how often my T checks her e-mail. What if she didn't check it until AFTER my next session? That would be so awkward. I don't think I'm going to risk it. God, I hate not knowing what her boundaries/methods actually are. This forum hurts my brain now that I realize how so many other clients/Ts operate.

quote:

maybe you could email her, then call her and let you know you had stuff to say that you couldn't express so you wrote it?

I think this is a great idea. I do think Ts wait for us to take initiative on stuff that involves the T-client relationship. They may have a sense that something is off and not that they ignore it, but I do think they expect us to learn to trust to bring those things to the table and work through them. I've found it to be very good (although excruciating) practice to take those steps of faith.

Firefly,

I am deeply troubled by your T's comment that if you are silent, she will just read a book. It is her job to 1. allow you to be silent if that is what you need. and 2. Sit with you and be fully present with you in that silence. and 3. Engage her brain to figure out what that silence is saying.

Her comment is shocking to me. I would seek a consultation with another therapist and share what she said to you with this other therapist. I really think you need to hear from a professional just how unprofessional and harmful that comment from your T was.

Thanks, everybody, for responding. I don't really know what to think.

I might end up seeing another therapist, for pretty much unrelated reasons. I am supposed to have an appointment for Thursday, but I never received my automated 2-days notice reminder from the office today, so I am pretty sure that something has gone wrong. This has happened before. No automated reminder = no appointment, generally.

Something always keeps going wrong. With my appointment times, with the insurance, with charges on my bill. I'm pretty sure it isn't my T's fault--and I know one of the receptionists is having health issues--but it makes me feel like I can't count on having a session from week to week. And, it is inconvenient when I take time off work for an appointment only to find out my appointment has somehow disappeared.

Bummer, eh?

LadyGrey, I have been thinking about your response. I wonder if my T's comment has something to do with her type of therapy? She does primarily a mix of CBT/mindfulness therapy.

FF,

I'm certainly no expert, so let me just get that out in the open right away, lol....however, I do think if your T were doing CBT/Mindfulness, she wouldn't be telling you she is going to read a book but would instead show patience and just wait for you to talk. I think she would use awkward silence to get you to change your behavior rather than telling you she's just going to start reading a book. Its your therapy and you get out of it what you put into it and I understand thats a big part of CBT but she still needs to be present and available to you.

Well, I was right, there has been a mistake with my appointment. Apparently, I am scheduled for Tuesday. Which makes no sense because I remember 1) feeling relieved when I scheduled the appointment last Friday that I'd see my T in less than a week and 2) that I took time off work to go to the appointment today. Now, I can't go on Tuesday without pushing the envelope at my job by asking off work again.

This wouldn't be a big deal except that this kind of thing seems to be happening all of the time. Double-booking, scheduled appointments that disappear on me, appointment date mix-ups, random charges on my bill, issues surrounding who is responsible for handling insurance issues. I hate it. I'm tired of it.

I know that I am attached to my therapist. THAT is obvious. And I know I don't like feeling dependent on her. That's obvious, too.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of things going wrong logistically with my therapy that aren't all my fault. And I think I have a right to hear an apology from someone about all of the mix-ups that have been happening. I haven't received one.

Maybe my therapist & the people at the office don't think these errors are significant. Maybe they think it is all my fault and I'm just "acting out."

But *I* think it wouldn't be that hard for someone just to apologize. I DO think my therapist should acknowledge what is going on, and I do think that she should reach out to me in some way, even if it is just bring it up in session.

I feel additionally brushed off because I called her VM to ask if I was on her schedule, and she just had the office staff person call me, which would be fine except that once again--no acknowledgment of error on anyone else's part.

I left a message saying I can't go to the appoint on Tuesday and I canceled it. If my therapist cares at all, she can call me. I wish I knew how much of this is "transference" and how much of this is based in the real, here-and-now. I tend to self-invalidate, so I feel like if I'm this angry and have noticed this much of a pattern enough not to feel like its all my fault, then I think I'm probably right.

Which scares me and angers me and tires me.

I don't know whether to try starting with a new T or just waiting 4 months when I figure out where I will be living next (I may be moving to a different state, then). This sucks.

Firefly, I'm sorry there was a mix up with your appointments...how frustrating that must be especially if it keeps happening and you have to keep asking for time off work. I too think you have a right to an apology from the staff.

I hope your therapist does get back to you so you are able to sort out a new appointment time. It's a tough one if you are moving in 4 months, I guess it would depend on what you were looking to get out of the new relationship and if you would be able to cover it in that amount of time.

Butterfly

I think it is absolutely insensitive that your therapist's office is screwing up your appointment times so badly, and making it so hard for you to have a regualr appointment. grrrr! It is hard enough to get to therapy, without having to actually have to fight to get your needs met in this area.

With this in mind- I think you should explain everything that has happened to t=your T, how frustrated and judstifiably angry it has made you. If she invalidateds you or blows you off- then that means it is time to find a new therapist- imho. It can really be painful when they don't realize how importnat it is to feel cared for on the basic stuff that is their responsibility- like scheduling and payment needs. on the basic stuff they are *supposed* to take care of. I deal with the same, as my T is not very organized- and it is really awful, and makes me feel horribly neglected and triggered by him. I hope you will be able to find the strength inside to assert yourself, and ask that your legitimate needs in this area be taken care of. It might require raising your voice a bit, and clearly speaking that you *need* the appointment times when they were scheduled, and that you expect that to be filled as you have to take time off work. same with the billing stuff.

You deserve not just an apology, but also for these matters to be appropriately and professionally taken care of in future.

Thanks for the kind words, butterfly.

And, blackbird, now that I have calmed down a bit--yes, I think I should voice somehow to my therapist that things have gone wrong and actually explain how/why.

I will be gutsy and face the office staff again tomorrow (which I HATE DOING, I feel angry and humiliated talking to them), and I will cancel my appointment for Tuesday. Then, I will say that I can rescheduled at the times that fit MY schedule, which I will list.

If there are no appointments next week, then I am not going to schedule an appointment, because honestly three weeks is a long and painful time to wait after being used to weekly appointments and without any dialogue from my T.

At that point, I don't know what I will do. I will either send an e-mail (uhgh) or leave a message on my T's voice mail. "Hello therapist, I am leaving you this message because I am having trouble making an appointment with you that fits my work schedule. I have tried pushing around my schedule multiple times before in order to come to therapy, but it ends up resulting in a large amount of hardship for me. I make what are (to me) significant sacrifices to come to therapy, and I am upset by the issues I keep running into--random charges on my account, conflicting messages from different staff people about what I am actually responsible for insurance-wise, appointments that are not a the time I recall scheduling them for, and so on. This has hurt my confidence in therapy and in your reliability a lot. I am really angry at you and at the situation, but I don't actually want to stop therapy. Being unsure of where I'm going to be in four months, I don't actually know what is the best thing for me to do. I'd like some communication with you about the options available at this time. I hope to hear back from you."

Hah... but that is way too long for one VM recording, huh?!

nope- I'd just read it out on there. Good for you. You deserve the appointment times you have scheduled and taken time off work for. I think you would be really brave if you go ahead and make that point very clear.

Let us know how that goes...I hope she hears you and apologized, and that you don't lose anymore appointments over thier disorganization.

hug,

BB

IM SO BRAVE. I sent an e-mail.

It said:

"I'm having trouble scheduling any appointments that fit with my work schedule. It is pretty much finalized through [insert month] as [insert schedule]. For the
past few months I've tried just pushing my schedule around each week to
make it in to see you, but I keep running into issues that are getting
really hard for me to brush off--random charges on my account, conflicting
messages about my responsibilities as a client (insurance issues),
appointment time mix-ups, etc. I don't actually want to suddenly stop
coming in, but I don't know what to do about scheduling, and I am having a
hard time working it out on top of a loss of confidence in your & your
office's reliability. I'd like to communicate with you about this and find
out what my options are, preferably before I push my schedule around a
great deal again. Sorry to send this as an e-mail, though I do remember it
is like sending a postcard.


I'm sure she's not really going to respond via e-mail, and she'll probably just be like, "schedule an appointment when you can," but I'm glad I at least said something, even though I feel like I'm just going to feel bad about it later and it probably won't amount to much. This is really not my style at all and I'm not sure what is going to happen. I'm going to try to go outside and get busy with my day so I don't worry about it too much.

I'm glad you were able to be so direct about your needs. I hope you are able to hold yourself in the idea that what you are asking for is healthy and reasonable, and hopefully T will respond better than you expect!

Thanks yaku, I'm totally freaked out now, I have no idea how I will actually manage to talk to her about this if she does try to contact me, I feel a little ridiculous now because I don't really know how to explain everything, and I guess all I really want is just a regular session time and an apology for something that wasnt even her fault!

Mmmrrhhhghh I want to disappear and I really really wished I'd waited to just bring this up in a session

aw, FF I am sorry you are hurting now. When is your next session?

I hope you are able to distract yourself and occupy your mind outside today enjoying this first day of spring.


((((FF))))))

I don't have one scheduled

There was a mix-up with my appointments which meant no appointment last week, and I couldn't get into an appointment this upcoming week, either. And then I was mad that I'd have to wait for 3 weeks for an appointment so I decided I wouldn't schedule one until I talked to my T about getting a regular appointment. Which is really stupid because of course I should have scheduled an appointment and asked her in a session. I guess in my head I felt like I deserved 5 minutes of her time after all of this confusion we've had and I was determined to ask for it. How embarrassing.

Ahgh I will definitely try to find some distractions today.

Mostly I'm just mortified that she's going to talk to the people at the front desk about this and they're going to say I'm crazy and they're going to be fake-nice to me but really just hate working with me and think I have all of these problems. I really just wanted to talk to her about it, not the front desk people, but she's probably talking to them all anyway, and blehch.

I was thinking that was the case (that you didn't have an appointment) but I hadn't kept up with the thread and thought perhaps I had missed something.

I do hope that T writes you back and not only apologizes for her blunder, but also schedules an appointment with you.

Firefly,

I'm sorry you are having issues with getting your sessions scheduled and finding a regular time. That is very frustrating! I would imagine that your T won't respond until tomorrow as she might not check email on the weekends. I hope that the two of you can work out a solution.

Angsttttttttttttttttttttttt.... she has not written OR called back yet. I'm sure she just hasn't checked her e-mail or is thinking over how to respond. But ANGSTTTTT. Haha. Just waiting now...

ohhh- did you hear back yet??

Nope! In some way it is starting to bring me peace of mind, though. "Maybe I will never hear back! Maybe I am freeeeeee!" Maybe it's a sign that therapy wasn't for me lol

(I say that but I bet I'll totally get a call in a week or two from my T who probably just never got my e-mail and wants to know where I am and I'll just end up going back to see her and all of this will feel sort of foolish.)
(Oh well!)

quote:

Originally posted by Firefly:
Nope! In some way it is starting to bring me peace of mind, though. "Maybe I will never hear back! Maybe I am freeeeeee!" Maybe it's a sign that therapy wasn't for me lol

haha, i totally know that feeling!

Okay, at this moment, I... feel so sad about this I don't know what to do? I don't end relationships well? I didn't want me being mad at her to mean that I never talk to her again. I wish she cared enough to contact me. Not even that, I wish SHE felt something had gone wrong enough that she felt the need to contact me. It's just proof that once again all of this is in my head, that it's all about ME and my issues. I just want to curl up somewhere and be accepted and loved and be ME. And I can't get that from therapy. I just want enough of a grasp on my issues so that I can let go around someone else let it be tears and joy and peace and frustration instead of monsoons and explosions and tornadoes. I'm not making any sense, but... I'm sad. And when I think about just calling and scheduling an appointment, I feel sad again. I'm just wasting limited time. I'm so mad that she doesn't even know that there are issues going on. I know I'm going to cave and schedule and appointment. She probably knows that too. Actually, she is probably super busy and probably doesn't think it's that big of a deal that I haven't been in this week. Oh well...

Aw, Firefly- I could've written you last post...have you thought about going for a consult to a psychodynmically oriented T? I know how hard it would be to do that. I touwln't have to be a permanent solution, but it might help you to make sense of some of what is going on and get some perspective, how much of it is stuff that is coming from you, and how much is her junk. It''s just a thought.
I am so sorry that you are feeling so sad and misunderstood and abandoned. (((((Firefly)))

BB

Hi Firefly,

Sorry I'm so late to this thread (been fairly MIA lately), but I just wanted to say that I don't think of you calling and scheduling an appointment as caving at all. I see it as you trying to get the answers your desperately need, and that is a sign of strength to me.

That being said, I have to say that there is so much that your T is doing and has done that are huge red flags to me. BB's suggestion of a consult is a good idea and one that could possibly give you a little direction with your T.

Let us know if you hear back and, by the way, nice to meet you!

Well, I sent the e-mail on Saturday. She replied Thursday saying she wanted to talk on the phone and she'd have some free time Friday and I could call her or she could call me. I sent her times that would be good to talk. She called me late today. I missed the call because I couldn't get to my phone in time, I called her back with 2 minutes, went straight to VM, left a VM saying I was around. No call back. Called again 5 mins later, no answer. Thirty minutes later, called, left a message saying that 1) I was upset but didn't want to get into it over the phone but 2) I did think I would feel a lot better if I could just schedule a series of appointments at once instead of doing so week by week, & that I just wanted to talk to her briefly about how I should space that out and when would be the best time to do that.

Really, I don't need to talk to her on the phone at all probably, but I feel paralyzed because I don't want to talk to her front desk people either. I probably should just schedule an appointment but I am freaked out now that something is going to go wrong and I don't want to humiliate myself again.

I guess this upcoming week I can just try, once again, to schedule an appointment.

Therapy is totally over, though, since I'm moving in 3 months.

I don't know, I keep thinking in circles. I just still miss the predictability of weekly appointments, even though I'm angry

Aw, FF I am sorry you missed the call from your T and that you couldn't get a hold of her when you called back. I'm glad that you left a message for her saying how you were feeing about the scheduling stuff. I hope she hears you and is willing to work things out, even though you are moving in three months.

I am unraveling I don't know what the heck is wrong with me I feel terrible and like I'm about to jump out of my skin and like I want to do something horrendously stupid but I'm resisting, resisting, resisting.... I want something but I don't know what... it's just overwhelming want and overwhelming silence and emptiness... and god I sound stupid and over dramatic I don't know what to do

FF - Here with you. Can you write? Even if you cannot contact your T right now, is it possible to start writing out what you are feeling for a later time? Writing sometimes helps me. I know others have much better advice on grounding than I could give, but I wanted to let you know I'm here, thinking of you, and hoping you are doing OK!

Okay, I talked to my T. She finally called me around 7 PM tonight.

I was really civil on the phone. I knew what I wanted to ask about, which was scheduling. She told me that I couldn't just "have" a time indefinitely (which makes sense, and which I knew already), but that I could schedule a series of appointments in advance. She said that, since my work schedule conflicts with her appointment schedule, I could try to schedule a 45 minute appointment during my lunch hour. If that really wouldn't work, she said that for clients that she has had for a long time, occasionally she can move around her own schedule to keep on meeting regularly. She said, if I really need to, I could have an appointment time at an hour earlier than when she usually comes to the office--on a day that she said is now already really busy for her.

I know that, if I try to do the lunch time appointments, it's going to be really stressful for me. I have a hard time with transitions and I am disorganized and easily stressed. I rely heavily on my lunch hour as a time to keep myself together and frantically take care of things at the last minute (did I forget to pack a lunch? do I need to go to the bank? did I forget to mail my rent check? etc.). Also, my office culture is one where lunch isn't at a set time but at an hour that is negotiated daily based on the needs of all the staff and our clients. It would be stressful for me, and for the people I work with, to ask off for a couple of hours in the middle of the day at a regular time regardless of what is going on at work.

I know this, and so I know the early appointment time that my T offered is what I am looking for. I'd still have to show up to work a little bit late, but it would be much, much less emotionally / organizationally demanding on me.

I just feel like I'd be taking advantage of my T somehow, though. Or, like, she's doing me a favor, so that means I need to be Extra Good In Therapy to make up for it. But, I know if I start going back, I'm going to be angry, and silent, and sulky, and sad, and accusatory, and superficial, and difficult to work with. I feel like I don't deserve the special appointment time, like I need to Get It Together and fight for a lunch hour appointment at work and learn how to get myself organized and stop being so over dramatic. Am I being manipulative or greedy? Is she going to resent coming in early each day? Am I making her life hard just because I refuse to make tiny changes in my own?

I know the early appointment is good for me, but I'm really, really scared of asking for it. I told T that I'd try to work things out in my head / at work and let her know.

Meanwhile, Consult T is tech savvy, invites people to e-mail, responds promptly, does her own scheduling, cites issues really relevant to me on her website, and has appointments at times that are really good for me. I might still meet with her. Maybe.


yaku>> Thanks for replying, I actually really needed that message. "Here with you" was the most comforting thing to read. I don't know much about grounding or when you're supposed to do it, I know that I do write my T a lot though (and never share any of it with her, but, eh!). I'm glad you post on these forums.

FF - Glad I was able to be some comfort and happy you're here too.

I think that I would feel the exact same way you are...but, from the outside, if T offered you that as an option, it is because she is willing to go that extra mile for you. T does this for me. He usually meets with me at 9:00 pm at night, because it is difficult for me to find a babysitter for earlier appointments (his 6:00, 7:00 and 8:00 are regularly taken by others) and even when I have a sitter, it is too emotionally draining to come home from therapy and care for my toddler for several hours. I spent several weeks asking him if it was really OK with him to stay so late (sometimes until 10:30 if he was running late and we went over), but he has made it plain that it is his choice to schedule how he does and accommodate me. Whenever I am able to accommodate him, it makes me happy to do so, because I appreciate how he goes out of his way to work with me. I have finally stopped feeling guilty most of the time and now just feel really appreciative. What am I suggesting here? It sounds like it is honestly too stressful for you to do a lunch appointment. What would you think about contacting T and saying something like:

T - thank you so much for offering the scheduling alternatives we discussed. I know you are trying to go out of your way to work through our scheduling conflicts and I really appreciate it. Lunch times at my work are negotiated on a daily basis, so it would be nearly impossible for me to schedule appointments ahead of time. I would like to take you up on your offer of a morning appointment, but I also feel anxious I am being too burdensome. Are you sure it is OK to come in early on those days?" And this next step is the most important part: if T says "Yes, I'm willing," no matter how much your instincts tell you that she is lying or you are taking advantage, you have to choose to accept her answer. You may still feel bad about it for a while, and that can be good material for a session, but it really is T's choice to meet your needs. And the difficulty you have accepting it is most likely about some other person/people in another time...or at least it is for me. Hope that makes sense.

Yaku!! Thank you for your long response. I wanted to wait to reply until I had organized my thoughts a little more.

Your story about meeting with T later because finding a babysitter is difficult (as is taking care of the kids after therapy) was actually really helpful. A lot of the time, I tend to ask for things only if I'm Really Desperate and Things Are Really Serious, but I'm pretty sure it's okay for me to ask for the early appointment simply because otherwise things would just be plain old extra stressful. Who knows, maybe my T will think it was good of me to ask (even if she is dreading having to wake up earlier). Maybe I'm making (extremely difficult and slow and resistant) progress?

I am going to go with the Tuesday appointment for the next little while, if she'll let me. That would be really nice. I'm a little nervous to talk to her about it, but hopefully it'll all go okay. I'll try to trust her and not be TOO terrified of her.

FF,

I think if she offered that you can take her offer at face value and accept it if that works best for you. Hopefully she meant it and won't be resentful later. I doubt that she would be. I understand why it is hard to accept though.

Good luck and keep us posted!