Welcome anagum. That is a lot of questions you have. I'm not in a really good place tonight to respond but I wanted you to feel welcome here on the Board and not like your post was being ignored. I hope you find the support here that you are looking for.

My T is an analytically trained but does more of a psychodynamic type therapy with a lot of attachment theory and object relations thrown in. He talks a fair amount of the time and we do not do free association. For the past two years we have been working on our relationship. This is the first stage in trauma therapy and the most important. Without the trust you cannot do the work.

I'll try to get back here tomorrow to respond more.

TN

Hi anagum

Yes I am undergoing psychoanalytic psychotherapy and have done for close to four years now. I've found it by far the best psych intervention I've ever received.

As for the issues you raise:

Yes I have had times where I was hostile and rageful at my T. Not necessarily for the reasons you are, but I do understand how intense the feelings can be. In terms of examining your thoughts, that's what the two of you are there to do. I suspect there's shame and hurt under your fear. It is very hard to have your defences ripped away and to stand in the midst of extreme uncertainty and anxiety. But to build healthier and more realistic ways of viewing the world, yourself, others and relationships, those defences need to be dismantled.

It does sound like there might be an enactment with your T in relation to what's happening with your dad at the moment. Let me know if you want me to elaborate on that point.

I think what your T most likely meant was that it will be helpful when you are able to know at a deep level that your dads actions say more about him than they do about you. And you will know how to draw better boundaries to keep yourself safe. As kids we don't have the cognitive skills to see that and negative parental traits frequently get split off because they endanger our sense of security and safety in the world. There will be undoubtedly tough times ahead as you come to realise fully the damage your father has done and certainly his reaction to it will have a substantial impact on your relationship moving forward.

Free association really should be anything on your mind. It can be stuff you've been thinking about between sessions.

Psychoanalytic psychotherapy is poorly understood in the wider community, it's not easy to do randomised controlled trials on it, it's long term, and people classically think about Freud and infantile sexuality when they hear the terms. The lack of understanding, difficulties adapting it to scientific research paradigms and the incredibly confrontational nature of the intervention are important reasons why it's gotten a bad rap. Personally I've found it the most extraordinary journey of my life and its the reason I'm still alive.

Given its been 4 years its hard to think back to the beginning but I was in such a mess that I was on edge anyway. I did go through experiencing intense abandonment feelings and was very suicidal for a few months at the start. Therapy, especially of this nature, is opening the lid on your worst nightmares and deepest pain and its very normal for things to be more unsettled for awhile.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about this xxx

Hello. Everything you wrote is par for the course for analytic oriented therapy. It is very intensive.

The treatment is poorly understood and you will not find a lot of supporters, even other therapists think its odd or ineffective. The community itself, the analytic community has some strong views and they tend to think other therapies are not nearly as effective as analysis.

In terms of your difficulty, I have threatened to kill my analyst a number of times. Being angry with your analyst is not unusual. Analysis has brought out things in me that I would rather not see or know about. It is very frightening and disregulating. However, it is the only way I have found at addressing some of the pain hidden deep inside of me.

I think that different analysts have different ways of practicing and one analyst can make you fall to pieces while another can make you feel quite validated, understood and hopeful. I have yet to figure out how to find a good analyst who does not charge an arm and a leg.

(((ANAGUM)))

Your thread is timely for me because I've been wondering myself what other therapies might actually look like. Me, being me, what would a session look like if I went to a psychoanalytic therapist.

I was wondering if it would be okay if I post here (if not, I could start a new thread) about some recent frustrationg I've been having with my T - who is not psychoanalytic. I'm wondering if it's his style or if it's just those tapes in my head.

As for having negative feelings towards my therapist, yes, I've had lots.

quote:

ecause I am afraid that once I get all of those things (which have been rooted for so long) questioned, I won't know where to stand and life will be so much harder for me.

That sounds like a really reasonable fear to me. It seems as though our minds need some kind of structure in order to function, some way to distinguish between familiar and not-familiar and some way to distinguish between threatening and non-threatening. If you take the structure away, it can be a very scary experience. Hopefully, your therapist can be there for you to lean on while you examine the old stuff and before you build the new stuff.

quote:

My T said that I need to get to the point where those things don't bother me (it all depends on my perception), and I interpreted it as being indifferent.

Oh, I totally get this and can understand why you interpret it the way you did. I have had life-long issues with my mother. Somehow, miraculously, her comments don't hurt me as much or even at all. It's not that what she says isn't hurtful. It's that I've gotten to the place where I've separated enough from her and have started to develop a more positive sense of who I am that I am able to just blow off her comments. There was a very sad period in there for me when I stopped pleasing her. She went into a depression. It was as if to save myself, I had to kill her - something I didn't want to do. I just wanted to save myself but, in doing so, unwittingly took away the props she had been resting on.

So, it's not that your T is indifferent. It's just that he understands that it's going to have to be something that takes place inside you. It's not that what your father says isn't abusive and it's not that you are too sensitive. No one will ever be able to change your father except for himself so the best way to deal with that is to change how we feel about ourselves in relation to them.

I have a question for TN. Can you explain how psychoanaltic therapy would look different from psychodynamic therapy?

(((Hey Greeneyes)))

I'd love to ask you more about psychoanaltyic therapy and how it looks different than the other therapies from your personal experience. I actually have a situation from my life that I would like to share and ask how your therapists might have handled it differently but I don't want to hijack so just let me know if it's okay to post here.

Ooh, I have a question for those in analysis or psychodynamic therapy, too.

How much is working with dream imagery and other symbols (like from fantasies or day dreams) a part of your work? If this is something that your T does, do you feel that he or she is good at it, and how important would you say it's been to your growth and healing?

(((anagum)))

Welcome to the forum and thanks for starting a cool thread! I think a lot of us will be following along with interest.

i have had psychoanalytic therapy and none of the T's make big issues out of dreams. one did more than others and it was more like analyzing the characters...like oh i dreamt this guy in jail tried to slash me and i was in jail...
and then it turns into oh, interesting, do you feel like youre in jail during your life...or oh interesting, you must feel like youre in jail in relation to your mother or something like that...and then oh the guy tried to slash you, gee says the analyst, is there some part of you that identifies with him? what do you supposed the slasher meant...you basically try to make meaning out of the dream to get clarity on something in your life. its not the meaning itself that matters, its the process of thinking about it, you make connections in your mind, things somehow make more sense.

not all t's are big on it. other t's focus more on the transferrance.

HIC I do talk about dreams and T s pretty good at analysing them. I think they're more paramount in psychoanalysis. Some of the more profound dreams I've had we're very obvious in their meaning and highly charged emotionally.

Liese feel free go PM e your question if you don't want to post it here

Xx

THANK YOU all for your comments. I didn´t get a chance to be online for almost the entire day but I did check my email and it made me feel a lot better (and just in the knick of time; I had my appt today!) Just knowing that there are people out there who have been through this and are so postive about it (and have intelligent reasons why!) is very comforting.

GreenEyes, I will definitely be in contact with you from now on. I did mention to my T today about my transference feelings and how a lot of things about him are reminding me of my father (at least on the threatening side) and he said we were going to work on that. From what I got from it today, for me, it goes on to view older men in general as threats, and it has a lot to do with my Oedipus, which we will eventually touch.

I did sense that for the past three sessions (the first ones) I have been, more than free association, asking questions and clarifying things. I assume this is normal, am I wrong? My T seemed kind of anxious to actually get to the part where we go into free association but, pssst....I'm kind of afraid that I won't be able to do it right? When I am there, I tend to feel nervous (though not so much anymore; today was a big break towards trusting him) and the idea of spewing whatever crazy things come into my mind seems easy, but not so much when I was there. Any tips? /hugs

DaRock, Okay, I am sure then that feeling hostile is normal and that is because of perfectly good reasons. I hope that, with time, I will start to accept things easier, and if we do get to things that are very painful (which, gulp, I'm sure we will) that it won't be that unbearable.

Liese, you are more than welcome to ask questions here! I've only seriously been through another T before this one, but I find that I am learning more and more through each session and I am getting more convinced of why psychoanalysis is the way to go, in my opinion.

I am hoping as well that when stuff gets really scary, that he will be there for me, but he reassured me, again, that I am welcome to contact him via text, email or phone call, provided he's not working. So I feel hopeful, but there's still that little super-ego that makes me feel nervous about it. Part of the therapy will be to not make it so "super" anymore.

I really got a lot from your part about my dad. It's a bit tricky right now because I'm more sensitive and uncomfortable around him at the moment, but perhaps soon I will get to that point. That is a big goal.

And, if I may put my two cents here in relation to your question for TN, psychodynamic therapy and psychoanalysis have a lot in common, but there is a whole lot more interventions going on by the T in the former.

heldincompassion Dreams are a big part in psychoanalysis, at least for my T. We haven't gotten into them but probably will soon. Since, in free association, you have to talk about everything that comes through your mind (with no censoring) I'm assuming that fantasies and day dreams do play a big part. I've already stated some of mine.

I am glad that people find the topic so interesting when just a few days ago I was feeling so lost and misunderstood by it. It's completely a win-win situation.

You guys are great. I'll keep you updated with what comes next in my journey.

Anagum being worried about getting it right is normal. There is no right or wrong, what you do is just fine and what you need to do. It can be very hard to be so open and vulnerable but as time passes, trust is created and you experience acceptance over and over again it gets easier. I have seen T 4-5 times per week for the last 4 years and there are still things I won't discuss but a lot of that relates to a severe trauma and neglect history.

HIC my T and I often discuss my dreams, I remember when I first began therapy my thoughts were a dream is just a dream! Now after 7 years of analysis I look forward to discussing my dreams because so much comes up for me. They can often be very profound for me, brings up a lot of unconscious thoughts and feelings. I seem to feel a lot closer to my T after discussing dreams. Especially if my T is the topic of my dreams

Luc

Anagum, What is an intervention?

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:
Anagum, What is an intervention?

It´s when your T literally intervenes, says something and discusses your train of thought. In psychoanalysis, when starting your sessions, the T is pretty silent, and you job is to simply talk about what´s going on through your mind. When you get to a repressed thought or a thought that changes your original train of thought, then the intervention begins.

Anagum,

I could not do pure psychoanalytic therapy. I'm too much of a pleaser and would fall fall fall apart and fast!

i'm late to this thread, but i'm also seeing a psychoanalytical T and i wanted to add a few things. (it might be more of a negative rant as i'm angry with her at the moment).

2 years on, i still find it confusing, unbearably frustrating sometimes and a crazy emotional rollercoaster. my previous T was psychodynamic, she was similar in some of the ways she worked, except at a much less intense scale, but she was definetely warmer and more human. i dont get this at all with my current T, she is very reserved, and i perceive her as cold (maybe transference - my mother was rather cold and distant). in saying this though, my previous T felt less effective in some ways, i didn't feel like she could really handle all my crap, while my current T feels strong and stable. i think i felt this strength from the beginning but i also still get confused about it, sometimes i wonder if its just a sort of re-enactment, she reminds me a lot of my mother / my parents as they were very strict and not very warm.

i don't know if i'm getting enough of the 'benefits' of therapy, whatever they're supposed to be (feeling safe, cared for...?...) i feel that i am constantly in emotional pain, full of rage, frustrated and full of unbearable feelings that i just want to run away from. i am going through another stage where i just want to quit, but a part of me is agonizingly attached to her and i know that i just can't.

one last bone to pick, i also think psychoanalytical Ts take too many f**^ing holidays!

hmmm... did i say anything about the benefits...? somehow, i'm still seeing her, either i can't quit because i'm attached (scared of abandonment etc) or maybe deep down i see that it's helping me. OR i'm just a sucker for punishment.

sorry for the long rant. just wanted to share my experiences with it. sounds like some are quite similar to others... why does it have to be so F*&^ing hard? i am tired

puppet

Puppet I can experientially relate to everything you've said.
Hard to know about T's coldness. There's a certain air of conservative aloofness that surrounds psychoanalytic tradition but I think the firmness and reserve needs to be melded with warmth and empathy.

It sounds like your therapy is bringing up everything it's meant to - pain, frustration, feeling like you're going nuts, rage, intense attachment, fears of abandonment and wanting to run.

I firmly agree that they take too many f/@&ing holidays but I think to be able to work that way they need the rest. I've got a 10 day break coming up from Good Friday which I am dreading because I don't do separation well.

Hugs xx

If I can add a bit to this, I did definitely feel the coldness coming from him at first, but I've gotten more and more open and less inhibited about complaining to him about how I feel and even my hostile feelings towards him (always handled constructively) that I feel very close to him and a little attached. In the end, he says something that makes me feel better 90% of the time. So, yeah, psychoanalysts are supposed to be a little distant, as tradition goes, but there should be an element of companionship and trust.

I would definitely say that probably what you are going through is transference. A lot of the negative feelings I feel towards my T are exactly what I feel around my dad. I was actually kind of hesitant of that at first and was thinking of the possibility of switching to a female T, but I think it's actually more of a growing opportunity to stick with the one that reminds you the most of your parents. Think of it that way.

And, yes, I know where you are coming from when it comes to between-session feelings. Before I started my sessions, T warned me that psychonalysis is not exactly comfortable and that it can be a very anguishing experience, as documented by Lacan and Freud. I go through my days feeling angry, confused, exasperated at times (around my parents, mostly) but that's the subconscious opening up and moving around. It's a bit annoying, but I know that I am getting somewhere and am really learning a lot about myself, even though the healing and the things I want to happen aren't happening when I want them to.

Puppet, do you feel like the original issue (why you came to therapy) is somewhat lessening? With me, I feel like my anxiety is slowly fading away, which to me is the sign that the therapy is working, even if it's not rainbows and butterflies.

greeneyes, it's really good to know its not just me, and i'm not going crazy (or crazier lol)
she has been slightly warmer / more emphatic at times, but not very often (or i just dont take it in, i'm not sure).

quote:

It sounds like your therapy is bringing up everything it's meant to - pain, frustration, feeling like you're going nuts, rage, intense attachment, fears of abandonment and wanting to run.

thank you for saying that!

anagum,
yes, i agree about the transference, i suppose it can be useful... but it just really sucks!!! and i think if it gets too intense, then it ends up being less therapeutic, more something that gets in the way and gets you stuck in the past.
about your last question - i think i have too many issues to really know (yet).. but sometimes i feel something within is shifting...



puppet

Have you ever tried to tell her about it? I find it helps me break through it. Even Freud himself believed that it was something that got in the way, at first, but then started using it to his advantage.

Hang in there!

Guys, I need someone to hear me out, or at least somewhere to write this down. I was thinking of putting it somewhere else in this forum but since the people who are going through the same kind of therapy are in here, I figured this would be a good place.

I am having a hard time handling things with my dad. To give a little background, he's been very dominant and sometimes abusive (mostly verbally) with us (me and 3 brothers) for years. He's been the biggest source of my super-ego and one of the main reasons why I went into an anxiety crisis with an old relationship months ago. Anyway, yes, he plays a big part into my fear, my inferiority complex, and a lot of my issues.

T at first had said that I need to get to the point where the things that he says don't bother me. Still haven't gotten to that yet...in fact, I think I'm more afraid now and sensitive towards him than I was before. Then I thought I had made a breakthrough by not being tense and weird around my parents (as I had been since I first started therapy) and realizing that I can love them and respect them and have fun, but the issues are still there (or how do I explain it? The frustration of not being able to reverse the situation that got me into therapy in the first place). We then figured out that the feminine role that my mother has implanted in me is part of the problem, which I felt pretty confident upon, except that I am STILL afraid.

I guess, I didn't have these sensitivities around my parents before, but now that I am aware of them I am more receptive to the dynamics plays upon and it disgusts me at times. But I am also disgusted upon myself because I don't know how to handle them yet. Does the subconscious work that way? Once you figure out one of your deep conflicts and the source of it, should you just be able to grab the bull by the horns and make the situation easier? I feel bad, too, because for some reason I think T is going to be disappointed or estranged with me for not being able to handle it within a week (though he did say once that I am rushing too much into this and that I need time) but I feel that pressure coming from him.

And now, to make things worse, my dad is starting to notice the tension and the weirdness around him and is a little resentful. And that makes me feel anguished and aaaaaaah because 1) I don't want to cause him discomfort because he is my father and I love him and 2) I don't want to go and pamper him for everything, similar to what my complacent mother would do.

I don't want to analyse everything I do with my family. I want to just be happy and be able to handle my relationship with them to a point where I don't have to think about it.

Major confusion and frustration. I don't know. Is it wrong for me to want to fix things within a week? Is that how it's supposed to work? My T has been very careful in not specifically saying what I need to do and not do but that only makes it more difficult but I can see the reasons why he would not. But maybe somebody has had a similar experience and can give me some insight?

hi anagum,
its just a very quick reply as i dont have time now - and i will come back later... but i just wanted to say... you are giving yourself a week to sort out something so major?? i think you are being too hard on yourself. i think setting such harsh goals will only make it harder. take your time. and i'm sure your T must know how slow progress usually is. i think it will probably be an issue that you will revisit and improve on in time, unfortunately there is no fix it once and for all and be done with it (i wish it was too).

puppet