Hi Hope_rising:

I only have an answer to number one. Maybe some others can help you with two and three.

Q1: Just my personal opinion but I think your T should have respected your feelings (boundaries) right then and always. I don't really like what she said. How long have you seen her? What the heck is she teaching you? That she has the right to violate your boundaries?

xoxo

Liese

Wow, these are some tough questions.

For the first one, I'm going to have to agree Liese. If your T perceived you as trying to "control" her just by asking her to stop writing, this is a BIG red flag for me.

I can't say anything about the second question. Only you can answer that based on how YOU experienced that hug!

For the third, if your T knows what she is doing, then she will absolutely understand being in a testing phase and would calmly hold her boundaries while you do that. On the other hand, not all T's are so capable.

Unless the 'don't control me' remark was meant as a light hearted quip, I would be worried. When I told me P not to make notes or write whilst I am talking to him, he immediately put down his pen and stopped. He RESPECTED my wishes.

Challenge her on that one.

Welcome, Hope Rising. Love your name!

I'm sorry about the pain you're having to process in your therapy. It was brave of you to talk about something that you feel so much shame about, that you don't want it written down (I can relate to that). To me, your asking her not to write that down was entirely reasonable, especially considering how much pain you were obviously in at the moment, and also considering how much shame you were feeling. I'm not sure what disturbs me more about her response to you - what she said, or the way she said it. I really don't understand why, in the context you described, she would take your request (which she should have responded to the first time, and not made you repeat yourself) as an attempt to "control" her, or why she would speak with such coldness.

I have no idea what to make of the "side hug" either, but it surprises me, too, that someone who describes herself as "huggy" would hug that way!! I can totally understand why you would have been disappointed.

The T I most recently worked with would most definitely have respected my wishes not to write something down, if I asked her not to. Actually, she hardly ever took notes, and never, ever when I was in the middle of expressing the kind of distress you described. She would have been paying attention to me instead. As for hugs, we didn't hug every session, and she struck me as not the huggiest person, but her hugs felt warm and caring to me.

I do not think I could work with a T who treated me the way you described yours as treating you. Given the first two situations you described, I would also not feel safe enough to risk pushing her away. I don't know how long you've been working with her, or if you've ever worked with another T. But I'm hoping that the feedback and support you get here can help you decide what to do next.

Peace,
SG

Hello Hope Rising,

Re question 1: Ouch, that must have felt like a slap in the face. I would have hated that! That's just plain bad manners on T's part, imo. I'm not sure I would actually be willing to go back if my T responded to me in that way. If I did stay, it would be something I would want to talk through thoroughly.

One time when I was disclosing something pretty major T started scribbling rapidly and I asked a little exasperatedly, "Do you have to write this down?" She immediately stopped writing and gave me her full attention. She said earnestly, "The only way someone else would ever see these notes is over my dead body, and, if you want, when you are done with therapy I can destroy them."

"Really? You would destroy your notes when we're done?"

She nodded and I proceeded to ask her some far fetched questions regarding the safety of her notes in various hypothetical legal situations, all of which she answered patiently (T is also a lawyer, which is cool) and I ended up feeling safe enough with the note taking to continue talking.

It made a big difference to me that she respected and was patient with my anxiety regarding what she was writing. I think your T could have handled the situation so much better, by using it as an opportunity to build trust instead of shutting you down.

Re question 2: I can't really speak to this, as I am one of those who finds the idea of a hug from a therapist alarming (for reasons I have yet to sort through) so I don't really know how I'd feel in that situation, or what is reasonable to expect.

Re question 3: Yeah, I think you have to feel pretty safe before embarking on boundary testing. At least I do. I understand your hesitancy. I think it's one of those situations in which following your gut is best.

Best of luck to you!
HIC

HI hoperising

1: This would be upsetting for me. My T is experienced and doesn't write that many notes, but I am used to therapy and it doesn't worry me much. I don't notice it that much - in fact I joke when I say something big and she writes something - I say 'yeah, I knew you would go crazy and write that bit down'. I remember telling my old T something once and said that I needed her to listen to me and so she said "ok, do you want me to put my pen down". She did then the sat up straight, put her hands together and put on the empathic listening pose. We both laughed. She said "You have my full attention".

Anyway my point is that this T was really young and inexperienced yet - she really listened to my request and honoured it.

2. Give the hug thing another try. Perhaps she felt awkward? I would feel uncomfortable with T touching me and I have told my T that if she ever comes near me to touch me - I will move. She got the message. One day we might try it. I don't think we have even accidentally touched.

3. It is really normal to be in a testing phase - I do it subconsciously from time to time. When I am aware of it I will actually tell my T that "I think I am testing you" and we will discuss it. Tooka long time for me to realise what I was doing though.

A good and experienced T will know exactly what you are doing and why and will respond accordingly.

SD

Hi hope rising,

Q1 Gosh this would really upset me and throw me off course. Firstly in what she said, secondly that she said it in a cross manner, and thirdly that she was busy writing whilst you were so upset. Surely there is time for notes after she has settled you or helped to deal with the bigger issue of shame? Personally my T has never made a single note about me in session, the only notes she writes are ones for me, in my book with my permission, to look at afterwards.

Asking someone not to write down personal information about you is about respect and understanding NOT control. You need to talk this through with her I think.

Q2. Hmmmm I wouldn't be asking for a hug if she'd told me off, I'd be too frightened of rejection. But odd that she says she is a huggy person and then act coldly.

Q3. That's difficult because only you know your T. But I would look at the feelings that are making you want to test her in the first place. If you push her away she may care and try and salvage the therapeutic relationship...or she may respect your choice and step back or away. It's maybe not worth the risk, I'd just be honest with her about your worries in the first place. Saying that that all depends on whether your T is constant or not - I would put constancy as one of the greatest T qualities to have.

quote:

I am fairly new to therapy and don't know what is "normal" so I feel really ABnormal sometimes.

I totally understand that - therapy has a lot of unwritten rules that are sometimes don't come to light until we break them!!! I guess it's about communication and asking T to explain how she works a bit more.

Let us know how you get on,

starfishy

1 - I never asked my T to not write something. I've *felt* like I've wanted or needed to, but didn't open my mouth. Last week while there was a silence, she decided to start writing and then I just stared at her. Which, made her uncomfortable....I can smile about it now. She said, while writing and looking up at me a half second, "I'm listening." I didn't talk. I just stared. And, shen she got done writing she looked back up at me almost blushed and just rocked the pen in her hand without moving her hand. My gut reaction is that if you ask her to not write it down, she shouldn't. But, what is your reason for not wanting her to write it down? I've wanted to ask for my T's notes, a copy, to see what she writes. Maybe if I knew I could see it was helping her help me and make me more comfortable while she's writing in session.

2 - side hug does not equal huggy person in my book....might be worth a conversation with her!

3 - One time I was pushing my T away and I said, "I think I'm pushing you away before I get attached." She smiled and said, "I know what you're doing."

I'm not sure if I can do a good job answering these questions as I seem to be immersed in some of these issues myself! (except for the hugging- I do mostly online work)

My take is that your request (asking her not to write down the details of the thing you are ashamed of) seems honest and straightforward. I wonder if it isn't just enough for the T to record the "stuff" behind the shame or the shame itself. Do the details of the shameful event matter?

I am new to this and find all the power-plays and button pushing and games to be confusing. I often wonder if the whole thing is just going to end up driving me nuts and make me feel even more depressed. How do you guys do it?

Which brings me to the last question: I am pushing away my T before I get too attached. But if I tell him, it defeats the purpose, and is almost like asking him to stay.. like wanting two things at once, and obviously, only one outcome is possible. I really do despise this dance, and I think I want out, but will also miss my T. However, that's where I'm at, not you. I respect that. I'm going to watch this post because I'm curious and want to see you succeed/figure it out. I like the warrior metaphor: I think a good "warrior" makes a decision and abides by it. I seem to be sitting on a fence, so what can I say?

Except I'm curious about why you want to test and what's behind that. Pushing just to see if it's still safe? Are you pissed off at your T? Do they seem more cold or distant than they used to? Do you want to see if they still care? More info?

If that made any sense at all!

Hi again Hope Rising,

Just remembered another similar experience I had with the T before my last T. He took a lot of notes, and I never asked him not to...but there were a couple of times when I brought things I had written/drawn, and I wanted him to go over them with me, and he asked to make copies so he could read/look along with me...and then both times, he asked if it was okay to put these in my file. With the thing I had written, I was fine with it, but with the thing I had drawn, I was much more hesitant. He kept it in a drawer instead for a few months, and then later, asked if he could put it in my file, and if not, then he was going to get rid of it. By that time I was okay with it being in my file so he put it in there, but I really appreciated that he asked me first, and was willing not to put it in there if I didn't want it in there. Just wanted to offer that up along with all the other great responses you are getting.

SG