Hmm, I have no idea if the British are generally more secretive about these things. I just know that for me (and I am a US citizen) my therapy is currently an extremely private matter. Except for online disclosures such as this forum, I have not told anyone except my husband that I am in therapy. I did not even tell him for the first 3 months, but it just became to hard to hide where I was going and how I was paying for it. I am not sorry I told my husband because he reacted much better than I had anticipated. Still, once you tell someone you can't take it back. The sorry truth is that many people do make automatic negative judgments, and discrimination still exists. That is one reason I am glad for this forum, because it provides a safe outlet to explore our private stuff.

As for 2+2=6, I really can't recall having had that experience with my T yet. Maybe it just isn't my T's style to focus on connecting all the dots so obviously. Or maybe she is such a genius that every dot she has connected has made sense so I haven't questioned it. However, when you wrote the words "I can't seem to accept..." well, those are the words I use when I am in denial and wrestling against feelings or experiences that don't make sense or seem unjustified. I really can't know how it is for you, but is it possible you are trying to downplay the impact of your childhood experiences because it feels threatening in some way to accept it?

Thanks for coming back, MH.

Well, I'm certainly wrestling with some experiences and feelings that don't make sense, that's for sure. And perhaps I am trying to downplay my childhood, but I think that's still part of my flawed thinking over my 'need' for therapy. It's all very confusing at the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by Magpie:
Thanks for coming back, MH.

Well, I'm certainly wrestling with some experiences and feelings that don't make sense, that's for sure. And perhaps I am trying to downplay my childhood, but I think that's still part of my flawed thinking over my 'need' for therapy. It's all very confusing at the moment.

How I am taking what you wrote (and please correct me if I am way off) is that you are concerned about using your childhood experiences as an "excuse" for therapy, and you struggle with feeling whether your therapy is truly justified?

I guess I'm still wondering if what I've experienced justifies my being in therapy. Was it really that bad? I don't know. Certainly it could have been worse but I'm trying to take AG's advice and not score my history. Maybe I should just be able to pull myself together. But, since I've recognised that things aren't right for me and I don't like the way I think, I know I need some assistance to put things straight. I'm not completely sure that my T and I can achieve this but I really do hope so. I would be so good to feel differently.

Hey Magpie... just wanted to throw this out there... usually, when I find myself saying "c'mon, it wasn't that bad!" it's a signal that something indeed was wrong. I guess I'm trying to say that the mere fact that my "oh, suck it up" response was triggered means that something happened. If it was truly "no big deal" then I wouldn't need to "suck it up" in the first place, you know?

I feel like I'm talking in circles here is the best example I have: One night, I was about 9 or 10, and my mom got really mad at my brother and i for no apparent reason. She sent us to our rooms and told us not to come out (we were good kids, never really got grounded, so this was odd). Well, a few hours later, she comes in my room and says "why are you in your room? What are you doing?" in this angry, awful tone. I simply looked at her and said, "well, you told us not to come out." She simply walked away and slammed the door. The next day, I ask my dad about it and he said she "accidentally" took an "extra dose" of her medication and had a hard time remembering some things.

No big deal, right? I mean, I wasn't hurt, I wasn't in danger, I wasn't berated... I should be able to forget about it, right? So, I spent one evening alone in my room... I mean, I had plenty to do, so why did it bother me? It was okay, right?

WRONG. SO VERY WRONG. You know what I took away from that episode? That my mother was volatile... more unpredictable than I thought... that she was capable to not being aware of where/who I was. What else was she saying that she didn't recall? What else was she going to forget? It chipped away at the dwindling sense of security I had at home. I was scared she was going to leave me at school or forget how to drive or think that I didn't do something that I really did do.

So when my father suggested that I "not let it bother me" and that I let her angry tone "go in one ear and out the other," my "blow it off" response tried to override my instinctual feelings... maybe that's what I'm getting at here, that when I hear myself telling myself to disregard an experience or to get over it, the reason it's so conflicting is becuase what i'm really trying to do is override my initial, instinctive feelings. Does that make sense?

I don't know if this applies or is even understandable... hell, I'm still working through all this myself ... just wanted to add my two cents.

-CT

I told almost everyone that I'm in therapy.
My boyfriend knew, it's through him I found the place where I met my T (now he is my ex-boyfriend, heh ), I told some of my friends from work, the ones that are close to me. I told my sister and my mum, my old friends from my homeplace. I kind of hardly keep my mouth shut about it. I would like to send everyone to therapy.
I don't know if I should rather stay quiet about this.
I'm not from US or UK, or being in therapy wouldn't be common in where I'm from.
Couple years ago I was seing psychiatrist about my depression. Everyone knew, since I didn't keep it secret. I was crying to everyone. Only person who seemed bothered was my mum. She said that perhaps I shouldn't be saying everyone around that I'm going to psychiatrist (she meant they will think I'm a loonie or something?).

Hi CT. Thanks for sharing that. I can see why you felt the way you did and I empathise.

It's just taking me some time to adjust to telling my history and explaining how I feel to someone after years and years of trying to ignore said history and thinking I'm personally responsible for the way I feel. For starters, it's a novelty to find someone who's prepared to hear it all, let alone offer the hope that I can change.

But the trigger for this thread really was a connection my T made between events in my past and one of my automatic thought processes. I just do not make the same connection. I still think my T might be wrong on this issue. But I have to be prepared to consider that she may have a point as I have to believe that she's the expert at spotting these things.

I think I'm concerned that she thinks she has me pigeon-holed and therefore can jump to conclusions when it's not that simple and I really am at fault/weird whatever. Can't some issues be self-generated and not as a result of childhood? Oh my brain hurts with thinking about it all. Sorry if I'm not making sense.

I'm in the US. I'm not shy about saying I'm in therapy. I find that when I talk about it, sometimes other people who are shy about it will start talking about their experiences too. I think being in therapy is more common then people think.

I'm with Amazon in wanting to send everyone to therapy

As for connecting your past events to the present ... well, I don't know if that's always especially useful. What I'm feeling from your post is that deciding if something in your past influences a current behavior isn't as important as understanding your current behavior, in the present, and working on it from there.

quote:

It's just taking me some time to adjust to telling my history and explaining how I feel to someone after years and years of trying to ignore said history and thinking I'm personally responsible for the way I feel.

I definitely understand you on this one Magpie! It was hard (and oddly defeating) to learn that I wasn't the one responsible for everything that happened in my childhood. For me, I felt much more powerless once I realized other people were more responsible (or liable) for things that happened than I was.

The other thing I wanted to say is that I think it is totally possible for something your t says/interprets to be inaccurate. I mean, my t has suggested stuff before and I've told her that it doesn't fit or that I disagree. Just becuase it could have been that way, doesn't mean it has to have been. I think you are making sense and I think you are grappling with a very troubling scenario. Confusion is an awful part of therapy.

Can you talk to your t about this issue and explore it further? Will she be okay with you saying, you know, "I'm not sure that fits." or something like that?

quote:

I think I'm concerned that she thinks she has me pigeon-holed and therefore can jump to conclusions when it's not that simple and I really am at fault/weird whatever. Can't some issues be self-generated and not as a result of childhood?

You know, I would be concerned if I felt pigeon-holed too. But I think, at least in my experience, that t's aren't looking at things in terms of people being weird and what not. You are doing something or thinking something that you want to change and I think she's looking for WHY you might be doing it so that you can learn how to not do it. it sounds like her take on WHY this is happening doesn't sit well with you though.

Also, i know you probably know this already, but i'm gonna say it anyway ... it's often easier to think that we are at fault/strange/screwed up than it is to accept the reality of why we are the way we are (not even assuming your t's interpretation is accurate). Just a thought.

BTW, I'm from the US and am not shy about being in therapy, although I don't advertise or anything . I, too, think everyone should be in therapy... partially because i think they need it and partially so they will have to suffer too! Wrong? maybe, but still true!

-CT

I just wanted to thank everyone for responding and for being so candid about whether they were open about their therapy. I really appreciate that you folks would spend the time replying to my posts.

Thinking about the 2+2=6 thing, the more I think about it, the more I realise that the reason I don't agree with my T's explanation is due to the fact that I haven't told her some stuff yet. And I think these events play a greater contributory role in what's going on in my head. Only trouble is, I haven't the courage to tell her the events yet. I just can't trust her with that yet. Not sure what's worse: will she laugh and try to minimise it/tell me it's normal, or try to delve more deeply. Ooh scary, scary thought.

Isn't introspection a headache?

How about 2+2+x=6
To most of my T's smart interpretations I reply "I don't know... maybe..."
There are also things that would reveal propably something about the "x" which I haven't told yet. I'm not ready, it's not time yet, although I feel that I can trust him absolutely.

Hi Magpie,

I don't have any wise words but just wanted to share because there's so much in your concerns that resonates with me too.

I had to smile (or maybe grimace) when you said introspection can be a headache. Sometimes it feels like a revolving door to me, and I just want to get off for a while! That's why I enjoy gardening and playing guitar/piano so much. Those "right-brain" activities give me much-needed breaks. Have you ever heard the saying "the unexamined life is not worth living"? Well, I'd say the over-examined life isn't much fun either! Someday I'll find the right balance, I just know it.

As far as telling people I'm in therapy, I only tell people who "need" to know, or who I'm fairly sure will not judge me or might even be supportive. My husband has known all along. I've told my sister and my aunt because I knew they would be very supportive. I also told my boss because my issues were affecting my job performance, she noticed I was down and asked me about it, and I've worked with her long enough to know she's trustworthy. My neighbor noticed I'd been down this summer and offered to lend an ear if I needed to talk, so I told her.

The only person I wanted to keep it from was my mother. One of the main things I need therapy for is my boundary issues with her - my family has a legacy of enmeshment, dependency, even emotional incest - so you can see why I wouldn't want to tell her. But then one day I was going to miss my appointment if I didn't get someone to watch my daughter, and she was the only one available. When I told her I had an "appointment" she asked what for, so I told her I'm in therapy. She didn't ask any more questions and that's good.

And I agree that a T's interpretation of what I say can be off, or it could also be me not seeing something, or not wanting to see something. Eventually it will become clearer as we continue but I think the most important thing is to keep talking about whatever is coming up, keep the communication going.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
the mere fact that my "oh, suck it up" response was triggered means that something happened.

CT, thank you so much for sharing this and for illustrating with your example. How sad and scary that you had to live with that kind of uncertainty. It reminded me of one of my saddest and scariest memories: my dad was in the Navy and so some nights he would be gone overnight. Sometimes I'd wake up in the middle of the night and go to my mother, who appeared to me to be sleeping on the couch. When I would try to wake her, she wouldn't wake up or respond to me. I would get really scared then, start crying and say over and over again "Wake up, Mommy!" I was about five or six. This happened a number of times. What I didn't know is that she was passed out from drinking too much.

Now here's the problem: I can tell you and my T about this, but right behind it is a steel door that slams down and says "oh, come on, it's no big deal." That's my personal version of "suck it up" but it's the same principle. I intellectualize and say, well now I know the explanation so I can forgive her. But that skips right over the damage it did.

I can hear myself doing this in therapy over and over again: I tell my T something about my past, she offers her empathy and gives me space to feel, and then I turn right around and tell her why it's no big deal and then shut down. Then I compound it by thinking, if I can shut down so easily, then it really must not be a big deal, so why am I in therapy anyway? It's really frustrating for me and I suppose it would be for her, too. I'm really beginning to be afraid that my resistance is going to wear her out.

I'm reading another book called The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller. She talks about this very need to go back and process and grieve the injuries we had as children, and explains the kind of damage that continues to be done to us - and others affected by us - when we don't. The following paragraph hit me especially hard last night and I want to share it with you (bolding is mine for emphasis on what I'm having trouble with):

"Probably everybody has a more or less concealed inner chamber that she hides even from herself and in which the props of her childhood drama are to be found. Those who will be most affected by the contents of this hidden chamber are her children. When the mother was a child she hardly had a chance to understand what happened; she could only develop symptoms. As an adult in therapy, however, she can resolve these symptoms if she allows herself to feel what they were able to disguise: feelings of horror, indignation, despair, and helpless rage."

This reminded me that I'm not just doing this for me, I'm doing it so I don't repeat the same injuries to my own children. There's more I'd like to say about this book but I'm going to stop here.

Thanks for listening and for bringing up the topic!
SG

Hi SG,
Just a quick comment (sorry I haven't been around, I came down with sinus infection, and bronchitis the beginning of the week and that kicked off my asthma so it was a long hard week without any leftover energy.) but when I feel that door slam down, I have a mental exercise which really helps me. I believe you've mentioned having children? I want to think of one of your children being five or six and experiencing exactly what you experienced and see if it still feels like no big deal. When we think about it happening to someone else, our own defenses and emotional messages are removed and we can see the situtation more clearly. Even thinking about hearing it from another poster on Myshrink can help. Then you just have to fight off the feeling that it's different for you, you just have to accept that it's only your feelings making it seem different.

AG

PS The part about dealing with our stuff to prevent passing it on very much resonated with me!

I am very open with everyone about being in therapy. I dont really care what anyone thinks about the fact that I see my psychiatrist or that I think he is the greatest guy in the world and that I am in love with him. All my family members, church family, friends and coworkers have known that I am in therapy most of them know some of the reasons why I go to therapy. If someone judges me for going to therapy that is there problem and I believe the only reason they would do that is because they truly do not understand what a blessing therapy can be and because of that they will never take part in that blessing and be missing out. I think everyone could benefit from therapy at least in one area of their lives. When I talk about it or have someone ask about it I talk about it like its just a normal everyday thing that everyone does, just like going to work is. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

I am very open with everyone about being in therapy. I dont really care what anyone thinks about the fact that I see my psychiatrist or that I think he is the greatest guy in the world and that I am in love with him. All my family members, church family, friends and coworkers have known that I am in therapy most of th

I am very open with everyone about being in therapy. I dont really care what anyone thinks about the fact that I see my psychiatrist or that I think he is the greatest guy in the world and that I am in love with him. All my family members, church family, friends and coworkers have known that I am in therapy most of them know some of the reasons why I go to therapy. If someone judges me for going to therapy that is there problem and I believe the only reason they would do that is because they truly do not understand what a blessing therapy can be and because of that they will never take part in that blessing and be missing out. I think everyone could benefit from therapy at least in one area of their lives. When I talk about it or have someone ask about it I talk about it like its just a normal everyday thing that everyone does, just like going to work is. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
------WebKitFormBo

Wow, some of the comments shared here are so powerfully felt. I have had a difficult time posting much lately because I find myself too emotionally moved by everyone's experiences. Apologies to Magpie, but I really would like to respond to some of the comments with my own experiences. I don't have enough energy to respond to all whom I would like, so I will just focus on a few quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by strummergirl:
I can hear myself doing this in therapy over and over again: I tell my T something about my past, she offers her empathy and gives me space to feel, and then I turn right around and tell her why it's no big deal and then shut down. Then I compound it by thinking, if I can shut down so easily, then it really must not be a big deal, so why am I in therapy anyway? It's really frustrating for me and I suppose it would be for her, too. I'm really beginning to be afraid that my resistance is going to wear her out.

This describes my therapy experience EXACTLY. I will know something is affecting me, but I will use logic to excuse it away or diminish it. Then later it feels like the problem still remains under the surface.

As an example, on the day before Thanksgiving my ex-uncle (who is also a narcissist and a perverted ex-con) showed up unexpectedly at my front door after no contact for several years. This happened to be a big trigger for me because he once tried to molest me when I was 13. In fact, he was sent to prison later for molesting a niece on the other side of his family. So I was totally caught off guard. I didn't let him inside, but I chatted politely with him and even allowed him to hug me (not what I wanted - why couldn't I assert myself?).

Then I sent a frantic text to my T -- the first time I have ever texted her -- because I was so upset that my ex-uncle knew where I lived now, and since I wasn't rude to him maybe he would come back. Then during the entire Thanksgiving weekend I berated myself for sending the text -- how I was overreacting because he wasn't going to hurt me now as an adult, and he really didn't even get very far with me when I was 13.

When I went to my next session, my T asked me to tell her about the uncle in my text. Instantly it felt like I was 13 all over again, and I started shaking. At the same time, I said I didn't want to tell her because then she would know how much I was over-reacting. We discussed whether he was in reality a present threat to me -- what was his purpose in coming to my door, what did he want from me, did I feel safe, etc. The thing is, I don't feel totally safe, even though it isn't logical to still feel that way. So I just got angry with myself for feeling it.

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
I want to think of one of your children being five or six and experiencing exactly what you experienced and see if it still feels like no big deal. When we think about it happening to someone else, our own defenses and emotional messages are removed and we can see the situtation more clearly.

It's funny how it never occurred to me to look at it this way - to give myself permission to feel it at the level of the age I was at when it occurred. Not that I was 5 or 6, but I was still at a vulnerable age. Thank you for this perspective.

I just want to thank everyone for sharing about their backgrounds and experiences. It's amazing to see that minimizing process working in other people - it makes it a lot easier to understand how it works as a self-protection. It's also amazing because it brings up such clarity of feeling to see other people's experiences.

SG, your experience with your mum just sounds like a nightmare to me. In fact, when I was a little girl I used to have regular nightmares about my mother not responding to me - it was the scariest thing I could imagine or feel. I'm so sorry you went through that, in the middle of the night when you needed comfort!

CT, I had a similar feeling reading about your experience, and I know how it can be really undermining to your sense of reality when you have this experience that feels so WRONG and the people around you (with all their power) are telling you there's nothing wrong with it at all. I'm glad you have reclaimed your sense of WRONGness about it!

MH, I hope you were able to get good support from your T about the situation with your ex-uncle. In fact, it DOESN'T sound totally safe, and I am not surprised you freaked out. Put it this way: if a creepy narcissistic ex-con who had tried to molest me when I was a kid turned up at my door out of the blue, I would be really scared and upset. That you know him and were related to him doesn't make it safer, just more confusing. I'm really sorry to hear you have to deal with this, because it sounds like it brings the past into the present in a really uncontrolled way.

I'm going to add a little story of my own to the mix to make it fair! I guess one equivalent in my own background was shortly after my parents split up when I was 4, and I used to cry every night for my dad. One night my mum sent her new partner in to deal with me instead of coming herself. He stood at the door and growled "You can't have him. Now stop crying because you're upsetting your mother." Instant shut-down.... I think that was when I first really got the message to just switch the feelings off. Like everyone else, I think about this situation and go "umm, maybe that wasn't really a big deal!" But I have to think back to the crying me and know it was a big deal for her.

I think the thing that really GETS to me about these stories and the minimizing that goes with them is this: I think of the 9-10 yr old CT, the 5 or 6 yr old SG, the 13 yr old MH, 4 yr old me and I hear the minimizing as something that those CHILDREN were forced to do in order to cope with their situations. In other words we were forced to give up parts of our childhood, to grow up then and there in ways we weren't ready for. "No big deal" SOUNDS kind of grown up, but I'm thinking it's a kid's guess at what it means to grow up, and it marks a terrible loss.

Hugs for all, including (especially) those who can't yet write about their own experiences.

Hi AG - I'm sorry to hear you were sick, it sounds like you've really been through the wringer! Thank you for sharing that mental exercise with me. I will keep trying! It doesn't help that I'm also fighting my mom's voice which always said quit crying, you're just trying to get attention, I'll give you something to cry about. She would even intervene when my dad would try to comfort me. I internalized this on a really deep level so it will take time.

Pippi - I love your attitude about therapy, that there's really nothing to be ashamed of and if someone thinks less of you for it, then it's their problem. You are so right!

Mad Hatter - What an absolutely awful experience to have your narcissistic perverted ex-con uncle show up like that. And then to have a hug pushed on you, from a relative who once assaulted you, not to mention he doesn't even show any signs of remorse (and even that still wouldn't make it okay!). Your response was perfectly understandable and I'm so sorry you had to endure that. You didn't overreact at all. I'm glad you were able to talk to your T about it and thank you for sharing it with us. It was and is a Big Deal.

Jones - The way you put all of our stories together and then shared your own had a profound impact on me. What your mom's partner said to you was reprehensible and it hit me really hard, made me just break down and cry for the 4-year-old you and for any child that is treated so coldly when they've already been abandoned and are crying out for someone to care for them the way they need to be cared for.

Something about the way you all wrote about your perspectives and experiences really has caused a crack in this armor of mine. Thank you so much for sharing your stories.

SG

Hi SG. I'm really touched that you cried about what I wrote. It's really strange to know that someone else can feel something about it. I nearly didn't write anything about myself because I guess one of the things I learned was to switch off how I feel by focusing on how other people feel. This has done some real damage in my life, to me and others. I'm slowly getting better at seeing how it works and noticing myself in the process.

I hope you are going ok with that crack in your armour. That calls for some gentle self-care.

quote:

I can hear myself doing this in therapy over and over again: I tell my T something about my past, she offers her empathy and gives me space to feel, and then I turn right around and tell her why it's no big deal and then shut down. Then I compound it by thinking, if I can shut down so easily, then it really must not be a big deal, so why am I in therapy anyway? It's really frustrating for me and I suppose it would be for her, too. I'm really beginning to be afraid that my resistance is going to wear her out.

Whoa SG- this is me. I don't have anything to add, except thanks for this revelation- something for me to look at.