Hi TN:

I can imagine how you feel. Happy to talk about w/you.. I too had my therapists betray me as you may have read.



LK

Crap!!!! What is up with these T's lately??

I am so sorry, so sad to hear this. I offer my support wholeheartedly.

((((((TN))))))

I'm so sorry (((TN))) I just can't imagine your T deliberately hurting you at all I do hope both of you can sort it out

(((((TN)))))

I am sorry you had such a bad session that you feel like the relationship is over. Is it possible that there was a misunderstanding?



Liese

(((TN)))

TN - he obviously deeply triggered you but I suspect it is not what it seems as this T is NOT like your old T. but I have every confidence in you being able to communicate with him and find out how he sees it, or what he thinks happened.

I am also so sorry that you are hurting so much. He obviously touched a really raw spot and it can feel terrible.

Awww TN - hugs and thoughts right over to you

So sorry to hear about it TN *hugs* I hope you can sort things out and talk about it with him. Hang in there ((TN))

Man TN, your post sounds incredibly familiar to me.
Don't go AWOL we will support you any way we can.
Repair is important- it will bring growth to you and your T.

I am sorry - not much advice on this- because I too, am in it.

HUGS to you TN- I am so sorry- as I do know how painful this can be.

Just so you know, my T is trying to repair- he has not given up on me. We are both trying with tiny little baby steps without expectations.

Please keep posting and accept our love and support- you were so gracious in helping me- and you did help me.

Stay connected!!!

(((TN)))

I'm terribly sorry to hear that your T has betrayed you, knowing all that you suffered with old T. I'm so hoping that you will be able to repair this rupture as you've done in the past.

Stay strong,



Summer

What happened, TN??

Here when you're ready to talk about it more.

((((TN))))

I'm sorry that your session was so bad that you are doubting the relationship. I hope that you can recover and repair with your T. For now I'm thinking of you.

(((TN))) I'm really sorry that you had such a difficult session and you are left feeling betrayed and re-traumatized. I know it can seem hopeless at times like this, but I hope that you and your T can sort this out.

Oh TN, I am so sorry. Remember the good and wonderful moments you have had with your T - well when you have written about those sessions, i said that I would remind you how wonderful and in tune he is to you and vice versa - if ever you had a rupture with him. I am doing it now....

What happened? Can you give more details? I don't want to believe that he would hurt you on purpose TN, you guys have just had a few bumps these past few months and I thought things were ok again. What did he do?

I have had a triggery week myself with my oldT - what is it with the universe this week???? I am really delicate myself at the moment with some OLDT stuff so I can understand your emotions right now.

Keep talking TN. PM me or others if you want to talk about it in detail. We are here for you.

Somedays.

Thinking back to many of your ol posts, this T sounded like he was just right for you, TN. We all make mistakes. Has he owned up to his part? Is he open for repair? Does he even know what he has done to you?

Forgiveness is one thing, are you willing? But building up trust is far different I am learning.

Think back to how he has helped you in the past. Look at your growth- can anything attributed to your relationship with your T?
This is what I am doing. Not everything needs to be an "all or none". Take baby steps if you and he are both willing. I don't know what else to say... other than I am really thinking lots about you, and hoping repair is possible--- so damn hard to start over, you remember that. Many many hugs TN!

TN, I am so sorry to read that you have been hurt to badly by your T. You deserve so much better.

Thank you all. I'm overwhelmed by your out pouring of support. It really helped me get through the night and this day so far. It feels like those days after I lost oldT and I was so scared and lost and alone. And it's so hard to have to act normal at work and at home with my family. I just want to disappear from this world.

It's hard to say too much here about what happened. So briefly, my T invited his second, trophy wife, who just got her grad degree (in a field outside of psychology) to move into the office right next to his. One foot separates the offices. They share a common wall. He did not tell me and does not know that I know who she is. She is using her maiden name. I feel very deceived and that office no longer feels safe. HE no longer feels safe because he is hiding this from me... when he KNOWS what happened to me with oldT and HIS wife who was in that office with him. I have discussed this at length with him how I could not talk to oldT when she was around, how rude and witchey she was to me, how it hurt me to see her in his office and to watch them joke together and touch each other and how she was in his files and later I found out that she was privvy to all my confidential information because she was filling out my insurance paperwork. My T knows all of this and then he goes and gives an office to his wife. And does not tell me and lets me find out myself.

So how can I trust him with anything? How can I tolerate having his real life in my face each time I go to a session? What do I do when I am face to face with someone I DO NOT want to see under any circumstances? How can I talk to him knowing she is sitting just on the other side of a thin wall? How could he do this to me?

He does not know I figured this out. Yesterday I gave him a hundred openings for him to tell me. He remained silent. I told him his office felt unsafe. I told him HE felt unsafe because things were changing there. I asked him why he redecorated (it was obviously HER that was not satisfied with the reception decor).. he said it needed an "update". PLEEEEZZZZE... he is a man who would not notice if rain was pouring in through the roof I talked at length AGAIN about how upset I was by oldT's office with his wife and how I would never want to have that dyanmic or situation again. And he said NOTHING.

I feel horribly betrayed and I know that things can never ever be the same between us. If I stay I have to work to swallow the fact that she is there and I have nothing to say about it. It's that powerless feeling of the trauma coming back all over again. I can't eat, can't focus, can't sleep, can't think and all I want to do is disappear and somehow end this horrible pain I'm in. I am never allowed to have anything good, anything good get taken away from me. Even when I try really hard to make a good decision it gets ruined and I lose whatever means the most to me. People say that it's not true... but it is. I have lived this over and over again.

There is more to the story but this is what I can say for now.

How would you all feel if your T's wife, husband, or child was in the office with you?

Thanks
TN

Oh, TN, that does sound like a terribly retraumatizing scenario for you I think your T had a serious lapse in judgment by not warning you about this. If he didn't know you knew who his wife was, he was probably hoping to spare you all those associated feelings, hoping you wouldn't find out. But I think he should have told you anyway for the sake of honesty.

Are you able to call your T and yell at him about this? Even if you can't repair the relationship, I think it will make it less traumatic for you if you get the chance to hold him accountable and express your feelings. You are NOT as powerless as you feel, here. Remember, your T cares about you and I am 100% sure he wants to do what it takes to fix the relationship. But he can't do anything if he doesn't know what's even going on with you.

At this point, calling and screaming at him is preferable to what you are doing to yourself, suffering in silence. Even though he seriously messed up, I think he at least deserves a chance to apologize or to explain himself. Or at the very least to hear and understand why it is that you are mad at him.

He obviously doesn't know what's up with you TN, or he was having a bad brain day or something. Even amazingly good T's do stupid and clueless things sometimes.

Please take care of yourself and remember we care about you a lot

((TN)) I'm so sorry

I hope you can find a way to talk to your T because it may be a way to give an alternate ending to the trauma you suffered with your OldT. I also get that attachment wise, with the type of deep work you need to do with your T that would be just absolutely awful to overcome. Especially that he is being non-specific about it is kind of weird... I'm don't like that my Ts share their office space with ANYONE because I don't like hearing/seeing other people but thankfully I don't think they are family just friends. I know it would be hard to admit that you know who this lady is but I'm sure your T knows you google/search him?

My Ts husband in her office I'd be okay with because I share a kinship with him in a way - I know ways he is similar to me that she has shared so he seems endearing - my T is crazy about her H she has pictures of them and a little statue of a character that represents him in her office. I think an H I could handle... kids would be harder - I find it creepy my T has no pictures of her kids in her office, T2 does. To me it helps them feel "real" If someone loves them and I see them love others, I feel safe like that their love is real and genuine. That's me though - just answering what you asked I think if I'd had the experience you have had with her being bitchy and breaching confidentiality, engaging in PDA with T and causing you to feel unsafe I'd OF COURSE have a difficult time with it the transference would be deep. It's a shame that you couldn't talk or get to know her somehow as part of your work if you decide you can stay with your T through this.

I'm so sorry for the pain you are in and I'm sorry it feels like he's lying. I've had my T stretch the truth on really stupid things before and I can totally tell when she's bullshitting me - which isn't often but sometimes she is working hard to say the right thing, or not say the wrong thing and it comes across as super lame but she's trying to keep me safe/comfortable. Anyway even in this relatively minor it upsets me to feel deceived by my T and I can see how this would also break your faith in him since he can't say 'Well I'm sharing my office and wanted to get a new door' is better than 'It just needed a change' both are true but one is giving more truth, etc.

Hey TN

Oh UG poor you this sounds incredibly hard and tough for you - and scary. When is your next session with your T? I really really hope you can tell him how unsafe you feel. And I am quietly optimistic that the two of you will be able to work through this till you feel safe again with him. However difficult that is to imagine now - you've had some pretty amazing acomplishments together so far.

I'm just so sorry you are in such an awful place at the moment.

Hugs xxx

I could imagine you having a conversation something like this:

"Dear T
I feel very uncomfortable with your wife just through that paper thin wall and your wife possibly having access to my files and I also feel upset as well as uncomfortable that you chose not to tell me that this was happening. For me this is a repeat scenario of what I suffered with the oldT. Could you please explain why you have not
1. told me about it
2. thought about how much it would upset me
3. seemed to try and keep it hidden from me.

Please explain,
TN."

Then sit back and watch him squirm a little. or a lot.

*hugs*

TN that is a tricky situation. I'm sorry you have to go through it. I know it sucks but I do agree with everyone else, do not suffer in silence and do confront your T about this, do talk to him about it, it's important.
Are you going to see him any time soon?

quote:

I hope you can find a way to talk to your T because it may be a way to give an alternate ending to the trauma you suffered with your OldT.

I like the questions that Sadly mentioned.

I can understand how it might feel like a betrayal. It may also worth considering the possibility that women can get a bit weird in these types of situations- old T's wife seemed a bit threatened by your presence.

I have had women feel threatened by me for no other reason than I was close to, or respected by, their man. I have no desire for female drama, but have been the unknowing target before.. and it can indeed feel very unsafe. This can be tricky, as was mentioned. It's a real concern, but what if the T gets defensive about his wife? Good thing you are sensitive, tactful, and articulate, that will help!

I may be way off on this, or not. Take it with a grain of salt if it is just my own projections.

Aside from my own mind, I read your post again so that I may put myself in your shoes. It's hard for me to convey that I'm listening on a blog, but I am.

Why are some men so clueless...isn't a T supposed to be ABOVE that? One would think...yes because they are always spouting on about relationships and how to make them work, and teach us how to make our relationships better- yadda- yadda -yadda. Then reality slaps us to show - that they are just another clueless male. Oh- perhaps with a degree.

((((TN))))

When do you see him again? Just wanted to wish you big hugs and good wishes for a good outcome. I have read that in treating trauma patients, T's should be transparent. He probably should have been upfront about it. It's hard to say why he didn't tell you, especially after all the stuff you have told him about OldT and his wife. Maybe it was just one of those, we'll cross that road when we get to it type of thing. IDK. It's hard to say.

I'm sorry that you find yourself in this position again, twice in a row.

I have been jealous about my T's outside life and have had to block out things because I couldn't deal with them on an emotional level. If my T's wife moved into the office next door feeling like I do now about my T, I know it would be difficult for me to handle.

I know it's not rational to feel that way. But I'm just being honest here.

Good luck!



Liese

Oh. TN, OK now I get the issues from the story. I need to think about this some more as what your T has done- I understand it on a purely rational, ethcial, boundary level - but OMG, this would not be good for me.

I am thinking and feeling all sorts of things about it so I will wait for that to settle down.

Triggered I guess. I get this each time I see childT as ext T is in the office next door. I hear her, I see her, I smell her.

You didn't need this.
Somedays

quote:

Why are some men so clueless...isn't a T supposed to be ABOVE that? One would think...yes because they are always spouting on about relationships and how to make them work, and teach us how to make our relationships better- yadda- yadda -yadda. Then reality slaps us to show - that they are just another clueless male. Oh- perhaps with a degree.

Hi Mayo... yes this is it exactly! They are so clueless.

It's worse that he tried to cover this up and then I found out. You cannot imagine the horror and sickness in my stomach I felt when I saw her name on the door. I was alone in reception. I was frozen to the spot and could not believe what I was seeing. I was willing it to disappear and not be true.

BG... it's not so much the issue of her seeing the files, although this whole situation is flashing me back to the oldT trauma... it's the fact that I am FORCED to confront his wife and his real life each time I walk in there. It's one thing to know your T is married, has kids, and has a real life somewhere out there. But to have to accept seeing it each time is really very hard.

Aside from that... for the transference to work you need that special, safe, protected space where you are free to play with thoughts and ideas and where you can fantasize and make your T anyone you need them to be. Well now the only thing I can think of is that he is married to the woman in the next office who I may or may not see each time I go there.

I feel like I'm in a horrible nightmare and I can't wake up. He's been in that office for 20 years and NOW when I start seeing him NOW he has to bring his wife in to the office. I never in a billion years thought that this was even a remote possibility. BTW, they are married no more than 5 years. Second time for both.

I am seeing him tomorrow late afternoon. I have no idea if I can talk to him at all. Everytime I think of this I just start crying. Maybe I'll just fling the brochure at him and ask him about his new staff member.

I don't want to leave him. He is my light. He saved my life. But I don't know how I can stay.

TN

(((TN)))

Be strong TN *thinkin about you*

(((TN)))))

I know in my gut, from all you have written about the two of you, that you WILL work this out with him.

He is good for you, you learn so much with him, like the chair, this is something that can be discussed and heard and met.

Tell him.

quote:

don't want to leave him. He is my light. He saved my life. But I don't know how I can stay.

-TN

That is the dilemma, isn't it?

I have very similar feelings for very different reasons. Tha betrayal word speaks volumes, doesn't it? And I am very down on the whole (deleted swear) attachment thing right now.

BUT... I am giving him the benefit of the doubt- because of all that we have been through, and all that he has meant to me. Under the current top layer of shit (can I say shit?)I deeply respect this man... very deeply respect him. I think my T is wrong - and I am telling him that, and insisting we do things my way- but I am willing to listen to him- because I am...gulp, gasp (don't want to say it) attached to him and he HAS BEEN WONDERFUL...OUR RELATIONSHIP WAS GOOD, SOLID, STRONG at one time.

Your story is different than mine...but I feel the pain and the hurt (for me deep core abandonment)are similar. How do we move forward with trust? I don't yet know that answer, but I am willing to explore that with him.
Meant to add- I hope you give him a chance, too. From everything (most everything)you've said about him- he is a good T for you, and you've done lots of good work together.

HUGS TO YOU!!!!!

(((((TN)))))

Good luck today.

Liese

((((TN))))

I'm coming back to this thread late because I've had a busy week but I wanted to say I'm sorry that this is so hard. I can completely understand why you feel like you can't trust him and he has in effect lied to you about something he knew would have a major effect on you. I wish he had told you in advance. It would have still triggered all kinds of feelings in you about safety and his real life but at least you would know that he was aware of and acknowledging that it would be a trigger for you instead of hoping you wouldn't become aware that she was his wife.

I have lots of questions that you can ignore if you like but I'm trying to understand because my T works in an office by himself no reception other T's. I suspect he has an office manager/assistant who I've never met but takes care of billing etc. Does your T have other T's who work with him and do you know who they are or have you met him? If she has a degree in something other than psychology is she going to be doing counselling (I'm thinking of not psychodynamic therapy but something else like nutritional counselling) but in an area that you will not overlap so there will be no need to meet her or for them to discuss you. Is it a really different field?

quote:

If I stay I have to work to swallow the fact that she is there and I have nothing to say about it. It's that powerless feeling of the trauma coming back all over again.

I want to remind you that you don't have to say nothing about it. It is true that what you say may make no difference to her being in the office or worse may anger your T but you should say how you feel about her working in the office next to him and about the fact that he didn't tell you about it. You aren't powerless but I understand that you feel powerless. You can tell him how you feel. He will hear you and hopefully understand how difficult this is for you. I think he is a good enough T for that. After you've talked about it enough and he's heard and understood you enough then you will be in a place to move forward in this relationship or not.

I'm sorry this happened. It is unfair to all of us who have watched you deal with your last therapist and the damage that relationship did to you. You deserve better and I wish there was some way to give it to you. I will be thinking of you and hope that you go to your session tomorrow and start talking about it.

quote:

If she has a degree in something other than psychology is she going to be doing counselling (I'm thinking of not psychodynamic therapy but something else like nutritional counselling) but in an area that you will not overlap so there will be no need to meet her or for them to discuss you. Is it a really different field?

First thank you all for the hugs, good luck and encouragement to talk to him and tell him how I feel. Sadly, thanks for expressing confidence we can work through this. We have worked through a fair amount of stuff in the past BUT... we have still not worked through the touch issue and that was a biggie and I still cannot sit in his chairs w/o freaking out and NOW... it's even worse because I believe that the chairs were changed because SHE told him to change them and she took away my chair so I resent her even more. We never went back to the touch issue because although I told him we needed to... other stuff got in the way and I think he is just as happy to ignore what is hanging out there in regard to this. I did stop doing any trauma processing because I did not feel that he could be supportive enough while I was in pain. I had to work on getting past the need for touch while in pain and go back to remembering that I was able to do this as a child. To do without the touch while I was in pain or suffering. I very recently began to approach trauma stuff again and now this happened.

Incognito... thank you for your post. She is in a different field (not want to specify here) and there would be no need for them to confer about me... no ethical reason anyway... and this is troubling because she is not versed in the APA Ethical Guidelines if she is not in the APA and would have no idea of privacy issues and confidentiality and what her place is there. She just got out of school so this is new. I have seen the other T's in his office but never really spoke to them aside from saying hi. He is the senior there.

Right now I feel like if I see her I will be anhiliated and she has the advantage over me because I have NO idea of the hours she works and so how can I avoid her? She may be popping in and out of the office at all times. She may have an intense curiosity about her husband's patients and want to check them out. Maybe she is possessive and planned to work there to keep an eye on him? I have all these thoughts in my head and they are making me go crazy insane.

The only power (and choice) I have is to leave my T. I don't see how telling him anything will change that. Of course I can rant over it but she is not moving and I will be terrified at seeing her each time I walk in there. In the end, I lose my safe place that I have worked SO hard to believe WAS safe. Now it's not.

TN

Gosh, TN - you are deeply and horribly triggered here.

One of the things I notice is that you are ascribing (is that a word?I am not at my best tonight) many qualities to her that you cannot know she has. She may be a lovely intelligent sympathetic person who is just working from the room next door and has no interest or involvement in your work with your T. I suspect my T's partner works either in the same building or very nearby. But I don't know. For all I know, I might know her.

I know for you all the OLD STUFF around OldT's Wife is coming up and you are layering it onto this new T's wife. Understandable. These feelings are real but they are not necessarily appropriate to this current situation. Oh gosh, I am sounding too forceful now, might be because I am rushed for time.

I only want to ask you to re evaluate the situation, whilst knowing that you are being triggered by another past event which is being projected onto this current situation.

Well, I know you know that. But it will help sort and untangle the strength of the feelings and who they are connnected to.

I feel for you. I am in the middle of a muddle with feelings myself and very close to losing perspective. What I have always admired about you is your ability to remain insightful whilst in the midst of confusion and maelstrom.

You can leave your new T. You can talk to him AND leave him. You can talk to him and resolve. All three options are possible. but first of all it would be helpful for both of you if you talk. I look forward to hearing about your next session.I forget when it is. Maybe it is tomorrow?


and as for the touch issue: I weep for you, having been there myself.

I've got to agree with Sadly and LG. You are living in the past right now. This situation reminds you of past trauma, but it's not the same.

You are not the same person you were back then. You are stronger, wiser, more confident.

Your T is not the same T as you had back then. He is steadier, more ethical, more competent.

Your T's wife is not the same person as your ex-T's wife. I don't know anything about her, but I know that she's a completely different person.

Things don't have to turn out the same way this time. Change something. Start by going to your session and telling your T exactly how you feel, even if it means completely ripping him to shreds.

I think you owe it to yourself.

quote:

this is troubling because she is not versed in the APA Ethical Guidelines if she is not in the APA and would have no idea of privacy issues and confidentiality and what her place is there

TN: SHE doesn't need to be versed in it. It is HIS job and HIS job only to protect your confidentiality and privacy. Under his ethical guidelines, if she is not his employee directed to handle office matters where she would need access to certain parts of files then she should have zero access to them. His files should at all times be held in a manner in which the integrity of the confidential nature of the files is protected. HE is bound ethically to make sure of this.

I'm going to gently agree with BG here as well. This T is NOT oldT. His wife is not oldT's wife. It does not have to be the same way. This time you DO have choices and an opportunity to tell your T what has upset you and what you need. I'm not saying that will be easy at all, but you do have choices here. It sounds like you are giving him all of your power because on a reflex/defensive level you believe he is oldT. It is not at all surprising that your defenses are on high alert here but I think the key to getting through this is working through those defenses, giving yourself the voice that you didn't have as a child and that you didn't have with OldT. Regardless of the ultimate outcome of the relationship with your T, I know that you don't want another trauma with a T where you didn't get to have a say and speak your mind. You fought too hard with oldT to finally get a say to let your voice and your power go now.