quote:

I am having other feelings and sensations and images that I don't remember really happening. It is very disturbing and frightening. How do you know what to believe? What is enough to base anything on?

JM,
I remember feeling exactly like this when I started to recover memories. There is an incredible drive to want to know exactly what happened and that you're not somehow making it up. The problem is though when you experience trauma, the hippocampus shuts down and its job is to make sense of what you're experiencing and store it as a memory that you can recall. That doesn't happen so traumatic memories not only are stored differently but in a different part of your brain than normal biographical memories.

The fragments you're experiencing may be all there is. But you don't have to know it all and have the complete story. You can just work with the pieces and the feelings that come up and work with your T so that you can make some sense of it. But you don't have to do that alone.

Part of what you're experiencing is also the rejection of the trauma. We don't want this to be true, so doubting ourselves is a way to not believe its true.

I know that this is painful and scary and confusing, but you'll get through it. You have a great T and she'll be able to help you handle it. But I am sorry for what you're going through. Its been years but I still remember vividly how bad it was.

AG

JM

I am so sorry that you are going through this right now. Being confused about what did or did not happen is a very scary place to be. Knowing more, or knowing less, won't change the reality that something really did happen. From what you have said about your T in the past, I'm sure she will be able to help you look at those feelings and emotions and make sense of them. I also know that when we have difficult issues, we want them to be resolved quickly so we can get past the pain. It is unfortunate for all of us that things don't move as quickly as we would want.

I hope that you can take some time to bring yourself into the present and tell yourself that you are safe now. Mindfulness is a wonderful thing, but it takes lots of practice. I will be hoping and wishing the best for you.

PL

JM,

I feel like I kinda get what you're saying. But, while I get wanting to know what happened exactly, you prolly wanna remember that - I think what we know for _sure_ is what it felt like. Whatever happened, what you can be sure about is how it felt - and what effects it had on you.

I hope, like PL said, that you can spend some lots of time in the present, too. It can be safe and warm here.

JM,

I don't have really anything more to add. I just want you to know I am thinking of you and wishing the best for you during this difficult time. You have usually known just what to say to help me when I post on here. I am sorry I don't have any helpful words for you. I agree with the others that you should probably try and focus on the present when it all becomes too overwhelming, though. Keep us posted.

JM -

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I don't have any memories of my abuse, really not much from my childhood at all. I understand your fear of creating false memories. I'm never sure when I do remember something, anything, from my childhood if it was real or not.

quote:

How do you know what to believe?

I wish there was a way to know, but I don't think there is. At this point, I don't think you should worry about what's a real memory or not, just how it makes you feel, like some of the others have said. If you look at these questionable memories like dreams maybe that could help - dreams aren't always about real events but they can give us a lot of insight into what we're going through and how we're processing things.

I hope you get some relief soon.

OW

Every one of you have shared something so beautiful and meaningful with me. I am grateful beyond expression. All of this has touched me deeply giving me the confidence to beleive that I don't need facts or proof to validate what I am feeling. Even my T told me that I need to respect and honor my feelings that I am having and not worry about proving or disproving anything. Why is that such a hard lesson to learn? Oh yeah, it's because I've been hard wired the other way for so long. I get lots of headaches lately. Could it be because so much conflicting information is crashing into each other in there?

Anyway, I just want all of you to know how special and important you are to me. I don't know how I managed without you all before.

Much heartfelt thanks!
JM

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
Even my T told me that I need to respect and honor my feelings that I am having and not worry about proving or disproving anything.

Resurrecting an old thread with my own twist on the topic. Hope JM doesn't mind.

I've been doing some reading on how clients' memories are received by therapists. Apparently most T's generally look upon memories, whether "recovered" or not, as the client's perception of what happened and not necessarily factual events. I'm not so humble about this as Just Me, because right now I rebel at the thought that my T is possibly regarding some or all of my disclosures as distorted, exaggerated stories rather than as historical accounts. How can I trust that my T believes IN me if she doesn't even really BELIEVE me? I notice that JM's T response also avoids accepting the validity of any memories, and that just bothers me. Should I be doubting my own memories? Are they all distortions of my imagination? How can it NOT matter?

Hi MH,

This is a pretty complex question - I guess it has a lot to do with the nature of reality itself, and how we understand it! The first thing I want to ask, though, is - has your T said something that makes you feel she doubts what you are saying? If so, that is going to have lots of feelings attached to it for you (I'd feel hurt and angry and invalidated) and is worth addressing directly.

But as for therapists <i>in general</i> - and people in general - I guess it is my expectation that they will understand what I say as having been through the 'filter' of me. That's how I listen to other people, too - because I think that it's an absolutely necessary part of being human to interpret what happens to us through our own individual understandings of the world, and those understandings *change* things.

So if someone's looking for a parking space and finds one, they could interpret that as God answering their prayers, or good luck, or a function of chance, or the only good thing that happened that week, or it being a quiet day at the shops, for example. None of these interpretations will seem like distortions or exaggerations to the person who has them, because they come from that person's belief system. And none of those belief systems is necessarily wrong or problematic in any way. We're all entitled to our interpretations.

A good therapist, I think, will listen to the story about the parking space not only to understand what happened, but to understand the client's belief system too. Because we interpret our perceptions, and make decisions, based on our belief systems - they are a core part of our unique personalities. So I think they are really important for therapists AND clients to come to understand.

A lot of therapists (most? all? I don't know) think that what happens to us in our lives and especially in our childhoods affects our belief systems. And that painful experiences give us ways to understand the world that might protect us sometimes, but hurt us other times. I guess this is where understanding the 'filter' gets tricky, because all of this is really emotionally charged.

I'm going to make up an example: 'Clair' grows up in a house where Person X repeatedly tries to hurt her. She comes to believe that people will try to hurt her. For Clair, this is TRUE. As a kid, she NEEDS to believe it because the belief matches reality, and the belief tells her to be very wary of Person X. One day, at school, a teacher chides her for something. The teacher was not trying to hurt her, but Clair sees it that way and runs away, because it comes to her through the filter of her belief system.

Clair may not be able to tell the difference between chiding and a major threat, because she doesn't have the experience to help her with that - and because taking a risk on it is too dangerous. All the emotion of the threat comes up for her in the encounter with her teacher. To her, when she is chided by the teacher, she IS being hurt again. She takes that belief and experience into adulthood too.

To me, a good therapist for Clair as an adult will understand that there is a filter, AND understand that the emotions are real and the beliefs are valid. A good therapist will have a clear sense of where pain and trauma come from, so s/he can help Clair find the core of her experiences. S/he will help Clair process the feelings around what was happening for her at home. She might help Clair arrive at a more flexible belief ("Some people are dangerous some of the time, but not all of them all the time") and maybe in the process Clair might find a different interpretation of what happened with her teacher.

So THAT's my theory of therapy! Phew!! I guess I am procrastinating on some work. I'm sorry if this is really off the mark for what you were thinking about.

But I also want to say this: At the times when I feel cared for and understood and respected by my therapist, it's okay with me when she challenges some of my beliefs or interpretations. Maybe the thing to work on is getting to a place with your T where you feel that secure - and maybe that will take a whole lot of validation. I hope you can get that (and take that) from her.

J

Jones, have you ever considered being a therapist yourself? Wow, you really put some thought into that response, and I thank you for it!

My T has been pointing out a lot lately how I distort reality through my filters. I guess I have taken that charge a step further in wondering if she also suspects I've distorted my childhood traumas as well. As of yet she hasn't commented much on the memories I have disclosed, so my interpretation of her thoughts is left up to my imagination. Your reply is timely because I was prepared to head into my session in 12 hours as a very angry, defensive woman! Maybe I can cool off enough to not make an absolute a** of myself.

Obviously, I still have a lot of pondering work to do over this issue. I'm going to *try* to sleep on this and perhaps add a more in-depth reply later after my session.

Hi MH,

How did the session go? Were you able to talk about any of this with her? Hope you are feeling better than you were.

J

Thanks for asking, J. I did confess my suspicions to my T that I wondered if she doubted the accuracy of my memories (and I was able to do it calmly, thanks to your post). She completely reassured me that she didn't at all doubt the events that happened. She said the distortions she sees aren't in events but rather how I see myself in those situations,(e.g., it's my fault, I deserve it, I am bad, people can't be trusted, etc.). Pretty much the same thing you were trying to tell me, right?

So once again I am feeling foolish in belated recognition of my distrustful-type filters. I can't believe here I am embarrassing myself (again!) by admitting all of this. But the good thing that came out of the conversation is the reassurance and validation of my memories. I think I really just needed to hear the words, "I believe you" from my T, because she really hadn't said as much to me directly before now.

I'm really glad the post helped, MH. And that you were able to ask and get that reassurance! It's one thing understanding the process in the abstract, and something else to actually be able to tell you T about the concern and hear what she's really thinking in relation to YOU.

You were brave and smart to open the question up here, to look at the situation in different ways, to open the question up with your T and to take on board her response. There is NOTHING to feel foolish or embarrassed about in that. As for having the distrustful feelings in the first place - I am sure they have been in place to protect you for very good reasons. I think the ideal thing would be to check out whether they are necessary when they come up, and that is exactly what you did.

In short - bloody well done, you!

J

quote:

Originally posted by Jones:
You were brave and smart to open the question up here, to look at the situation in different ways, to open the question up with your T and to take on board her response. There is NOTHING to feel foolish or embarrassed about in that.

Thank you for your generous support. It does feel better to focus on the reassurance received, despite the pain getting there. I have a feeling I will end up repeating this process again at least a few times before I really "get it" at the cellular level!

Wow- Jones- you not only helped MH (and thank you for your candidness MH- now I know I am not alone) you helped me to understand some stuff. It is kind of like useing defences that you no longer need to hang on to because your world is safer now, am I right? Sometimes I respond to people as if they are attacking me and I either get defensive, or I get scared. But the reality of the situation may be skewed by my past experences. Feelings and reactions to my hurtful past, clouds how I percieve the reality of new or present experiences. Is this accurate?
Thank you for bringing back this topic. I too have very few memories of childhood abuse, and worried about - maybe I am making things up- and worried about being believed. So thanks.

Hey, Helle! I'm so glad this helped... what you say here really matches up with what I understand - hopefully that means we are both on the right track, rather than both wandering down the garden path!!

There are a couple of other things I'd add that have been helpful to me. One is understanding that we got those defences for really good reasons. If they are not helpful any more, we can still honour the little kid we were who was smart enough to come up with that defence when we needed it. Sometimes I feel like I hate myself for being absent-minded. But maybe when I was little I learnt to do that because to switch off, go inwards and process what was happening around me was the smartest thing I could do. It's still a useful skill to have.

The other thing I find amazing is thinking about why these defences we learn when we're small are so strong. Little kids' brains are built to hang on to the important stuff - how to eat, walk, talk, toilet, interpret the world - the stuff we learn at those ages is important, and it sticks around for good reason!

But I figure we don't have to depend on just those skills forever. We can learn a language and then learn another language later. We can learn how to crawl, then learn how to walk and spend the rest of our lives walking - but we still know how to crawl if we need to....

J