*Ahem* Sorry. calmer now. It was just really nice to... vent. pointlessly. I feel better.

Wynne,
Nothing pointless about that venting. That kind of pain is an indication that your emotions are so intense that your nervous system was overloading and that translates into physical pain. Being able to express yourself (quite eloquently I might add, that was one of the finest use of special characters I've ever seen. ) helps bleed off some of the extra energy and helps with the pain.

I don't know if you've read any of Shrinklady's articles on the Nervous System but she does a really good job explaining what's happening on neurolbiological level. And in a manner that's actually possible to understand. The articles on Activation and Discharge would probably be really applicable.

BTW, do you want to talk about what got you so angry? I don't want to push if you don't want to discuss it but wanted you to know you're welcome to.

Okay, so, in addition to being really mad during group, the results are in, and it looks like I dissociated, too. Right when we were all talking about _me_, and everyone was watching.

One of them even brought it up about 10 minutes after the dissociation started - and then the session ran out of time. It was apparently Quite Noticeable - like I just wasn't there.

Not cool.

HI Wynne,

I just wanted to chime in and say I hope your pain is subsiding. I imagine you will have lots to discuss with your Tfella about your anger, pain, and dissociation.

thinking of you,

Well, incognito, it's tricky, because it's group therapy - I don't know if anybody else here is in that, though I remember AG said she'd done it once, long ago.

So it's me, and Tfella, and a Tlady, and four other folks. And this is pretty much the kind of therapy I'm going to be in until August 2009 - other than seeing Tfella twice more (once in December, once Sometime When I Need It).

So I really don't think that I will get to have lots to discuss. I'll have to have it out with all of them, as it were. And it's just not the same. All of the clients in the group come from totally different backgrounds with very different Stuff, so they don't all even get the... I don't know. I don't think any of them know what dissociation is, and I'll be d*mned if I'm going to be their lesson. *grumble mutter*

Sorry, still not very happy about it. At all. I feel like a freak on show, among other things.

Seems like a lot of folks have had troubling sessions today and yesterday, though. I think my grandma would have said, "Must be the moon."

Hi Wynne,
OK, first thing, you are NOT a freak. Say that again and I will get out the HTML slapper (and I'm working on a 2nd Gen version that's new, improved and slaps harder!).

You are exhibiting behavior that happens not because of what you are or things that you did,but in response to something that was done to you. If it says anything about you, its says that you were strong and creative enough to survive something out of the ordinary.

All that said I can see where dissassociating in front of other people would be upsetting. I've only had it happen in front of family members or with my T and that was bad enough. So I'm sorry, I know it must be hard to deal with.

When I was in group therapy, there were around 10 people and two therapists, one of whom was my individual T at the time. I continued to see her for individual appts during the 15 week period while the group was meeting. I agree with you, the dynamics of a group are vastly different, there's rough and tumble and even a competitiveness to group that you don't find in individual therapy. I'm sorry you can't do that because I did find it helpful to go to my individual sessions and work through some of the stuff that happened in group. I really benefited from the group therapy because it made some things obvious to me about myself that I had not realized. I especially remember one woman who was ALWAYS angry, but could never express her obvious (at least from the outside) pain and hurt. I was always hurt but could never recognize or own my anger. It was in watching her that I realized what I was doing, so it really got me past a major hurtle. Anger has always been problematic for me.

So I know it must be tough, not being able to see Tfella for regular individual appts, but you can always come here for what its worth.

And you're not a freak.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
Say that again and I will get out the HTML slapper (and I'm working on a 2nd Gen version that's new, improved and slaps harder!).

*represses _completely_ inappropriate joke*

quote:

You are exhibiting behavior that happens not because of what you are or things that you did,but in response to something that was done to you. If it says anything about you, its says that you were strong and creative enough to survive something out of the ordinary.

That's the weird thing. When I did it, I felt like it was an almost-choice: like I decided I wasn't going to "give them" anything, and then I closed down, went away. I feel like I had some small bit of control over it, and could have tried to stop. But I didn't, because I didn't _want_ to.

I'm not sure I actually could have stopped it, by the by. It just felt a little choice-y. Since it felt that way, I end up blaming myself for it. The what you've said sounds great, I just... yeah. I just don't "get" it, buy it, accept it. I feel like trash and blame myself for doing something bad and counter-productive.

*tries to use new vocab* *mostly fails*

Wynne,
I hate that you feel like trash. I completely understand it because I know how long and hard I've struggled with feeling like that. You're not trash, you just got treated it like it. But when we're little we take in the wrong way.

About the choice thing, one of the most intense sessions I ever had with my present T (which is saying alot as I have a tendency to be a little intense normally. On the emotional intensity bell curve of human behavior I tend to be several standard deviations from center. ) was about going to and remembering the moment in which I would make the "choice" to go away. I started having really bad physical flashbacks, my T later described it as looking like I wanted to jump out of my skin. I was in an intolerable place where I couldn't stay because what going on was so intense and overwhelming that it felt like it would utterly destory me, but if I left, I went to a gray place where I was utterly alone and wasn't sure I could make it back from. But at least there was no pain there because I was too numb. How much of a "choice" does it sound like that was?

quote:

I feel like I had some small bit of control over it, and could have tried to stop. But I didn't, because I didn't _want_ to.

When all your experience tells you its bad to stick around, why would you choose to? That would be insane. This is where the bind comes in, that you will have to learn to stay and experience that its different now when you stay. But I'm not sure if group therapy is a good place to do that, so I'm totally getting why you left. I would have.

I know people are probably getting tired of hearing this one, but please think of someone else on the site saying about themselves what you're saying about yourself and see how true you would think it was. The intensity of our feelings about ourselves can be so strong that it makes it feel like an unarguable truth, but its NOT reality.

And it is a new vocabulary and it takes a while to learn it. And whenever you feel slow, come talk to me, I've been at this for more than 20+ years (ME=SNAIL).

AG

Oh, and could you PM me the completely inappropriate joke?

quote:

On the emotional intensity bell curve of human behavior I tend to be several standard deviations from center.

Heh.

quote:

I was in an intolerable place where I couldn't stay because what going on was so intense and overwhelming that it felt like it would utterly destroy me, but if I left, I went to a gray place where I was utterly alone and wasn't sure I could make it back from. But at least there was no pain there because I was too numb. How much of a "choice" does it sound like that was?

This is by far the best description I have ever read of the kind of dissociation I feel. 'Cause I can even remote-control the human (me) from that gray plane - it's easier, even, and I can get it to do pretty amazing things, like JM said in the "trauma issues" post. It's so much easier, sometimes I don't even _want_ to come back. And it's existentially comforting, to know that nothing can _really_ happen to me, because I can always go back there.

But I also feel like that's weakness - it's relying on a dysfunctional coping mechanism. I hear what you're saying, that there's really no choice - but somehow you learn to do it, to make that choice and stay, after a while. So it feels like even now there should be a choice, of some kind.

One of the reasons I've only-once-ever-and-not-since had a problem actually _getting_ to therapy is because I've told myself that not going is hiding, it's a weakness, it's a cowardice where I'm running away and not facing things and not being productive. So I always go, feel good or feel bad. It seems like dissociation should be the same thing: that I should be able to 'suck it up' and just...stay.

I know this is just an unhelpful reiteration of what I said the post before. I guess...I'm just trying to get it out?

So, have you folks not wanted to go back to therapy after a session where you get mad and then get embarrassed and feel bad about yourself? I don't really want to go to group on Wednesday - I've been dreading it pretty heavy this weekend.

Wynne, I'm on my iPod so this will be brief, I'll post more in the morning. I'm am more often than not terrified to go to my sessions. I am the best terrified driver in the world.
I've lost track of how many sessions I've started by telling my T that I had seriously thought about quitting therapy. But my favorites are when I walk in so scared that all I can do is sit and try to control my breathing for the first few minutes. So no, I have no idea what you're talking about!

There's more to come about dissassociation when I'm on an actual keyboard.

AG

Wynne,

I know just how you feel. Lately, the last 6 weeks or so I'm anxious and terrified every time I go. Last night, I was trying to think how to express myself on some things I've been thinking about for the last 2 months but I can't bring up and I got so anxious I felt like there was a heavy weight on my chest making it difficult to breathe. Usually the dread doesn't start until 24 hours before but this week it seems to be starting earlier.

I'm also going on Wednesday if I can get myself there.

quote:

But my favorites are when I walk in so scared that all I can do is sit and try to control my breathing for the first few minutes. So no, I have no idea what you're talking about!
AG

Heh. While I don't do that so much in individual sessions anymore (or rather, I should say, at this point right now), it's how I react every single week to group. Friggin' terrified. And except for the last two weeks I've just sat there and calmed myself down for the first twenty minutes or so (hour.5 sessions). I'm sure I'll be back to that pattern this week.

Boo!

And many thanks, incognito. I'm sure we can both do it. It's just... a step... at a time....to the door. *shudder*

Wynne,
I actually told my T once it was like a ballistic rocket path. In the beginning you accelerate towards your destination and keep increasing in speed (me jonesing for my T between appts and HOW LONG can a week possibly take) but as you approach your destination, you flip the rocket ship over and start accelerating AWAY from your destination as a brake so that when you get there, you don't fly past. I'm really anxious to get to the next appt until around 24 hours before hand. Then it's like, hey, maybe I don't really need to go this week. The best part about having a crush on my T, it provides a strong pull to go.

And to return to the subject of disassociation.

quote:

But I also feel like that's weakness - it's relying on a dysfunctional coping mechanism. I hear what you're saying, that there's really no choice - but somehow you learn to do it, to make that choice and stay, after a while. So it feels like even now there should be a choice, of some kind.

Disassociation is NOT a character flaw or lack of guts. Show me a woman going to therapy and I'll show you someone who isn't a coward. The truth is that what we're supposed to be taught by our attachment figures to handle our emotions and regulate our nervous systems by a repeated experience of them helping us to do it. Because of the way its learned, its learned on a very deep, not conscious level. When you had to disassociate as a child it was literally because that was the ONLY way to survive. Have to do it enough and combine it with a lack of being taught how to handle emotions even when you did stay and its a behavior that is laid down on a very deep level. Trust me, going emotionally to that moment when I "choose" to go away was terrifying, it was like standing on the edge of an abyss filled with chaos. In some ways, your body just does it, much like it will go into shock to maintain the main organs when you are severely injured. So a really strong neural network is built around the ability to disassociate. When your system gets overloaded that's how it knows to handle it. Its not a conscious choice. Its not, wow, I don't want to be here, I'll go away now, you just go away.

So to learn not to go away is SLOW painstaking work, being with a T who is attuned enough to teach you to handle the kind of distress that would usually drive you away. And you have to do it over and over and over again, until the pathways in your brain around this set of behaviors can rival the ones you learned as a kid.

And you shouldn't have to "suck up" anything, you deserve to have more than just an ability to endure pain. (Sorry, one of my mom's favorite attitudes is a "life is hard, just get on with it" which can sometimes work, but most times is just a way to tell you shut up and stop having those pesky emotions where she might have to deal with them. I get a teensy bit angry at that phrase. )

AG

AG,

Do you mind if I argue with you even if my intellect (what's left of it!) thinks that you're right? Because I'm sure you're spot on and all that - I just. can't. believe it. There's a large bit of me that's just arguing this point out endlessly. It goes like this:

quote:

When you had to disassociate as a child it was literally because that was the ONLY way to survive.

Right, that bit of me says. But (and here we go again) I go back to the idea of 'trauma', 'was it really trauma', and 'it wasn't that bad.' I would have survived. And even Tfella said that one of my issues is sensitivity. So there it is: I'm too sensitive, I just can't handle it, I... yeah.

And then there's the idea that I'm clearly being too hard on myself, what with being a dead ringer for someone who's had what Tfella was willing to call "a traumatic childhood" *shudder* ...but ain't trauma in the eye of the beholder?, this wee little inner critic asks? So a weak person would just experience 'normal' things as trauma and...

*sigh*

This back-and-forth with myself is frustrating. I know you're right (I think). The other frustrating bit is this:

quote:

So to learn not to go away is SLOW painstaking work, being with a T who is attuned enough to teach you to handle the kind of distress that would usually drive you away.

And time like this I hain't got, not on my plan. So I just get to go back and forth with you wonderful people (you are! enormously helpful and listening and Stuff!!!), but no T. Well, group. But... yeah. Different.

quote:

Right, that bit of me says. But (and here we go again) I go back to the idea of 'trauma', 'was it really trauma', and 'it wasn't that bad.' I would have survived. And even Tfella said that one of my issues is sensitivity. So there it is: I'm too sensitive, I just can't handle it, I... yeah.

Wynne, I do agree that your natural level of sensitivity may serve to make someone more prone to experience trauma, but what the hell does that matter? If you are a sensitive person, that's who you are, it's not like one day you woke up and thought, gosh, I think I'd like to learn to be really sensitive person! So not all people would experience the same things as trauma. That does NOT make it inconsequential or somehow a reflection on the person. It just is, its a fact. And there are a lot of other factors contributing to someone struggling with traumatic events. Was it one time or ongoing? Did you receive assistance in dealing with it? How long passed between experiencing the trauma and getting help? Did you have a secure base formed when you experienced the trauma?

Now, can you seriously tell me that a young child, powerless to take care of themselves, forced to depend on their parents (no matter what kind of people they are or problems they have) are responsible for controlling all those factors? That if only you were a stronger person it wouldn't have bothered you?

You mention you would have survived it. You did survive it, you're here talking about it. And one of the things it left behind is a tendency to disassociate under stress. That's a behavior, not who you are.

I'm really sorry about the attuned T comment, I know you don't have individual sessions right now. But I still think that even group therapy and how you're engaging it here can help.

And can I say one more thing you may want to smack me for (and which I could be completely wrong aqbout, so take it for what it's worth)? When there is ongoing trauma as children, the single strongest characteristic is our complete powerlessness to stop it. Powerlessness is a helpless feeling and can lead to despair because it brings you face to face with the fact that you can't do anything but endure. And realizing that could put you over the edge. So do you know what most traumatized kids do? They make it somehow about the person they are being responsible or causing it, because then, maybe, just maybe, they could control it. If you could just figure out what you were doing wrong, then it would stop. The problem is, we grow up, it stops, but we still believe we did something. I believed for years (decades, I'm old!) that I was intriniscally evil and repulsive, that I deserved the abuse from my father and as a matter of fact that my wanting affection and closeness and to be held presented a horrible temptation to my father and MADE him abuse me. Those are lies straight from the pit of hell. But they gave me hope that I could stop it, with the added benefit on preserving a "good" father. Can you see how it would work? That maybe your determination to make this somehow about a lack in you, of strength, of courage, of perserverence, of fortitude might be an attempt to retain control in what was an uncontrollable and as a matter of fact, an out of control, situation?

I hope I'm not coming on too strong. You are intelligent, witty, compassionate and self-deprecating to a fault, and I've picked up all that just through reading your posts. I get so angry that there are so many people in so much pain because of what was done to them not anything that they did. That not only was their innocence wrested away from them violently but also their ability to believe in their own obvious worth. Makes me crazy. And yes, I know I do it too. But it still makes me crazy.

AG

Oh and NEVER hesitate to argue with me when you disagree!! I am as prone to error and blind spots as the next person and I think that sometimes the best stuff comes out of going back and forth from different perspectives.

I'm not so insecure about what I believe that I can't defend it and I'm not so arrogant as to believe I always get it right. I get it wrong quite often and on that point, a lot of people who know me well could really back me up.

quote:

And can I say one more thing you may want to smack me for (and which I could be completely wrong aqbout, so take it for what it's worth)? When there is ongoing trauma as children, the single strongest characteristic is our complete powerlessness to stop it. Powerlessness is a helpless feeling and can lead to despair because it brings you face to face with the fact that you can't do anything but endure. And realizing that could put you over the edge. So do you know what most traumatized kids do? They make it somehow about the person they are being responsible or causing it, because then, maybe, just maybe, they could control it. If you could just figure out what you were doing wrong, then it would stop. The problem is, we grow up, it stops, but we still believe we did something. I believed for years (decades, I'm old!) that I was intriniscally evil and repulsive, that I deserved the abuse from my father and as a matter of fact that my wanting affection and closeness and to be held presented a horrible temptation to my father and MADE him abuse me. Those are lies straight from the pit of hell. But they gave me hope that I could stop it, with the added benefit on preserving a "good" father. Can you see how it would work? That maybe your determination to make this somehow about a lack in you, of strength, of courage, of perserverence, of fortitude might be an attempt to retain control in what was an uncontrollable and as a matter of fact, an out of control, situation?

AG, this might be the most clear description of how a child makes themselves responsible I've ever heard (much better than the one my T gives me LOL). I feel like I learn so much on this forum. I know how Wynne feels because I often wonder if I am just too sensitive or too needy. I think my childhood wasn't that bad or I try to remember that others had it worse.

My T told me that I had one of the most difficult childhood traumas he'd ever discussed not because of the abuse, but because of my family system, my lack of attachment to my mother (because she is a completely self-centred), and the lifetime of being "okay" so my happy family can stay in denial. The problem is I don't believe him and I think he was trying to avoid telling me that I was too sensitive.

This thread and its discussion of the nature of trauma and how each individual perceives it has been quite eye opening.

thanks,

I'm sorry AG; here we go 'round again. But! Keep your hands and arms inside the cart for this Exciting! New! Trip throooooough... Denialland!

On trauma: I'm just have such a hard time getting over the fact that he didn't hit me, there was no physical or sexual abuse, most of the trauma guidelines don't even mention emotional abuse, etc, etc. That's the whole point: that's what abuse was in our fam, and it was a point of honor that I never got hit. He even only kicked us out once, and that was after I was 18 and was just visiting - barely counts as "kicked out," really, except for my mom (who was actually kicked out, what with her living there and all).

So it all feels like nothing. If there wasn't a mark, if there wasn't a scar, it wasn't abuse and it didn't happen.

And, and, they never called me worthless. Ever. They were the "you can do anything you want to most of the time" sorts of parents.

On responsibility: And no, I clearly didn't 'make' my dad think the folks on the TV and radio were plotting against him, or make him drive away my mom's friends, or cause his crazy mood swings. I even knew that as a kid, and was never blamed for it (and if I had been, I might - just might - have laughed).

I only really blame myself for taking it so hard. He rarely even said two words to me! It was harsh words and whatnot to my mom, mostly. It didn't even really have anything to do with me.

When I hear the other stories of what folks' lives were like here, I just can't stop blaming myself for having the reactions I did to my at best minimally bad experiences. And no, it's not a bad thing about the folks here - before this I didn't think there was any 'trauma' to speak of at all.

I realize I'm just going round and round the same points here. I can only hope I get to another layer or past this or to some other level of understanding before the rest of you have collapsed with boredom. At least ya'll are spinning out some seriously insightful posts on the nature of complex trauma! I, like incognito, learn a _lot_ in these parts.

Incognito, I'm so glad it made so much sense to you. I struggled for years trying to understand that one. My T kept explaining it and eventually it sunk in. And it does make it easier to explain when you've lived it.

AG

Wynne,
You're going to make my head explode! And its just not pretty having bits of brains scattered all over the forums.

I really do believe that what you went through is the hardest kind of trauma to endure. Don't tell me you need a mark or a scar, because I never had any either. More importantly, I know that the fallout that has been the most painful and difficult to deal with wasn't about the actual physical acts, it was about the emotional damage, both in dealing with things I wasn't capable of dealing with, and in the withholding of things I should have had.

So, one more time around the block. (I'm very stubborn.)

A point of honor you never got hit? High standards, I see. So as long as your dad didn't cross that line, he was a good guy in his own eyes. That shouldn't be a point of honor, that should be a bare minimum. You posted once about placing bats in different places in the house in case you're dad did get violent. You're not supposed to live in fear of getting hurt in your own home.

I can believe they never told you that you were worthless, but children really need boundaries. If they could take care of themselves they wouldn't need parents. So "you can do anything you want to most of the time" can easily translate into feeling like you're not being taken care of or matter.

"I only really blame myself for taking it so hard. He rarely even said two words to me!" This is probably the most significant relationship you'll ever have with a man, the one that sets the template for all the others and he ignored you. Which on some level had to translate as you didn't matter. This is emotional neglect.

quote:

When I hear the other stories of what folks' lives were like here, I just can't stop blaming myself for having the reactions I did to my at best minimally bad experiences.

This drives me the MOST crazy. Trauma is NOT a contest! There is not some line that you cross and now your legitimate. Just because someone has it worse than you, that means your pain isn't valid? 'Cause I can tell you right now, reading between the lines on some posts, I have NOT experienced the worst abuse of anyone on this site. Not even close. Are you trying to tell me I must be overreacting because other people have it worse than me, so I should have been able to just handle it? You do NOT learn to disassociate because you're too sensitive or overreacting.

I really do apologize if I'm being too agressive in talking about this Wynne. And I promise this is the last rant I go on, and if I'm getting you angry please let me know. Or just tell me to shut up. I have at times experienced the kind of reaction to my trauma like "gosh, that happened a long time ago, why is it such a big deal?" It makes me want to punch people. I actually lost a friendship over a reaction like that. So I get a little frenzied.

I'll end with a quote from my T: Telling someone to just get over their past is like looking at a guy pinned under a car and saying, "you're fine, just go to the hospital." The only answer to that is "call 911, you idiot." Just because its not visible, just because there isn't a visible scar, just because there's not a physical manifestation doesn't mean that its not real or that its an overreaction on your part.

OK, I'll shut up now. (Finally! sighs everyone on the forum). I just want you to get whatever help you need to heal and to do without feeling like you don't deserve it.

AG

*gulp* I didn't mean to downgrade or belittle what you went through, AG. I mean, I don't even _know_ what you went through, and I wouldn't want to do it if I did. You're right, it's the reaction that a person has that indicates how bad something was to them, and they're not weak or anything for experiencing something that clearly sucked.

...which it would be great if I could apply that to me. But hearing you put yourself in my place and and then react as though I'd said those things to you was helpful, 'cause I would never say those things to somebody else, car-trapped metaphor aside.

I also feel like your reaction was perfectly proportional (you seemed really angry!) as if I -had- said those things to you, which gives me some clue of how I might maybe think I'm 'sposed to feel about this if it were someone else.

I'd _would_ like to thank you (and everybody else, as always) for sort-of "performing" this whole debate out in the public, as it were. It helps that other people are 'listening' (reading) and that I can think about what it probably sounds like when I say these things that're in my head out loud (and how I'd react if someone else said them) - or even, AG, when you go there and call me on saying them. I think it's really tremendously helpful, and I'm sorry about your head asploding.

I'm also starting to think that, even if I can't see Tfella anymore, I should ask him about perhaps talking to someone else out in the *gulp* community (non-U Ts). I'd have to start all over again, as it were, and probably vet a whole bunch of 'em.... *sigh* . But I might be reluctant to do it more because I'm not sure if I'm worth the bother or that it's not 'bad enough' to do that for. That might just be silly.

quote:

*gulp* I didn't mean to downgrade or belittle what you went through, AG.

Wynne, I ABSOLUTELY did not think you were doing that. I did it deliberately because I know how much it helps me to think about someone else expressing and/or feeling the things I do. We're much more capable about seeing clearly with other people because we don't have emotions telling us otherwise when we're thinking of someone else.

And I know you wouldn't treat someone else that way which is why I get so frustrated watching you treat yourself that way. I was really angry, but not at you. I get furious that it's not enough that people get injured in this way, but that they have to even struggle to recognize that it was wrong or struggle to justify the time and energy it takes to heal.

And I want to say thanks, you've been really patient with me going off, more intensely with each post. Please know that its out of concern for you. And I agree that its good to do this out in the open, I have never met a trauma victim who didn't struggle with these feelings, so hopefully, its helping other people to read it.

And I'm glad to know you're thinking about going to a therapist who you can work with individually. And for the record, you are worth the bother (although its not a bother).

And my head is still intact (I use that word loosely As JM would say, I still need a few screws tightened.)

i don't got no outsid scars. noone knew what were bein done to us (mostly noone knew). most people don't see us insiders none. we were good at hidin us insiders. we were good at
'i just hav a bad memori' instead of peopl knowin whoevr is ut is actuali not ever met them afore! sori me typin is goin downhil i rathr stresed i supos.
samy

Samy, I think I can say that i can identify with you here at leastto some degree. The things that were done to me were less direct and often only threats. stuff people couldn't see or identify. But I was good at hiding (my feelings)pretending I was ok. lurking in the background or being really funny and making people laugh. That became my role and I did it quite well and it provided a very good disguise to hide my pain.

BTW: I am not saying that your experience was like mine, just the hiding part and typing difficulty.I just wanted to clarify that. ok?

Samy,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to trigger bad memories for you. I know how stressful they can get. You're safe now. And I'm sorry you've had to spend so much of your life hidden, because you're a really great person who deserves to be seen.

AG

Samy, I wanted to let you know that we do hear and see you, and that you are, imho, safe here. I at least have found it to be a pretty safe place.

I also wanted to let you know that you let me see something about how I was writing (I know AG was trying to get me to see this too, I think, but eh! What can I say. <---slow learner.) And let me in advance apologize for how I was talking, and say that it wasn't true, it doesn't apply to your experience, and it doesn't apply (and isn't true) for anyone's experience.

I said,

quote:

So it all feels like nothing. If there wasn't a mark, if there wasn't a scar, it wasn't abuse and it didn't happen.

There's no hedging in that second sentence: there's no "I feel like" or "when someone says X, I think Y," or even a "sometimes, for me". It's just a flat-out statement, and it's one that I know isn't true.

And, even better, I was talking like some folks here have probably heard other folks talk. I know I've heard that before.

I am _so_ not gonna be that person.

Not even to myself.

quote:

I am _so_ not gonna be that person.

Not even to myself.

AG does happy dance around the room!

Smiley's have a party (h/t to River)

Ok, i don't actually get why you people here are so nice to me. i mean, if you knewed all the stuff i'd done in my life you might be very surprised and probably hate me. I still tryin to figure it all out.

samy