(((((deeply rooted)))))
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. I honestly don't think your T handled it very well, it sounds like she panicked and kicked you out.

I went through something similar with my T but he handled it very differently. I had kind of drifted into working with him individually and I started by going every other week on weeks where we didn't have marriage counseling, then when the marriage counseling went to every three weeks, I started coming any week we didn't have a couples appt and eventually I told my T I wanted to come once a week whether or not we were doing couples counseling (my individual therapy, while helping my marriage, very much concentrates on MY issues, not my relationship with my husband. There's actually less overlap than you would expect.)

Because of this I really didn't have a regular appointment slot. My T carries a large client load (he's actually not taking new patients right now). At one point, near Thanksgiving a couple of years back, he took some time off because he was traveling for the holiday and basically told me I couldn't have an individual appt the following week because my husband and I were coming in then and he couldn't give me two appts.

It was a LONG SUCKY MISERABLE two weeks, for a lot of reasons, but one of them was me struggling with being told I couldn't have an appt when I felt like I needed one. So when he came back from vacation, at our next session, I told him I had been really miserable, that what I really wanted was a regular appt slot (I had always had one with my previous T) but I would settle for just knowing I could get in every week. He told me no. Very clearly. BUT here's the difference. He listened to, heard and understood my anger. He was very affirming that of course I was angry. He in no way dodged my feelings nor did he make me feel like I was doing something wrong by having them.

Then he very gently and compassionately told me that he would not promise me something he could not deliver and after 30 years of practice, he knows how he works and giving a patient a regular slot isn't how he does it. We were then able to discuss some other aspects of why it was I would want it and what it meant to our work.

In retrospect, his holding this boundary was very important for me because it taught me that someone could not give me what I wanted but still care for me. But I was only able to work through to that because, while being sure of what he was doing, he was incredibly non-defensive, even to the point of encouraging me to express my anger. He was sure enough of himself and what he was doing that there was no need to be scared of my feelings.

So I think your T could have handled it better than she did. Especially taking a declaration of the end of therapy delivered in the midst of what was very obviously, a very emotional moment. And then sending you off and not providing any sessions to process the ending. Even if she was firmly convinced that the right thing to do for you was to refer you out (which sometimes happens if a T feels they can't control their countertransference) she still should have met with you and been able to hear all your feelings about what happened.

I think what I'm really trying to say is that you didn't do anything wrong. Therapy should be a safe relationship in which you can express all your feelings. So your T wasn't wrong in refusing the appt, that's her boundary to set, but she was wrong in not being able to hear how you were feeling and understand it. Because no matter how good her reasons MIGHT have been, it's impossible not to feel punished for expressing yourself which is the complete opposite of what you need and is re-traumatizing.

I can really understand why you're so upset.

AG

Thank you, Dragonfly, for your thoughtful words. You are right, it would be difficult to trust her or anyone else again. I must accept this as my reality and be at peace with it but right now, it hurts too much.

AG - Whenever I read about the relationship you have with your therapist I think of becoming a member of a "therapist envy support group." I know you have grown to appreciate the firm boundaries set by your T and in them you feel his care. You are allowed the freedom to be all that you are at any given moment while in the confines of the physical space of his office, time limitations of your appointment slot, and within the relational boundaries inherent of a client/therapist relationship. That "space" is a place of safety and for metamorphosis. It is a gift.

I thought I had found that "space" but I discovered I was wrong. I agree it would have been beneficial to process my feelings about being transferred, at the very least. I wish she had allowed me that space. As for hearing "no" to a request. I am sensitive to rejection, though I am getting better at it. It is easier to accept "no" when I understand the reason for it. What hurts me the most is that she did not validate the feelings I let her see during that phone call. She did not help me find another "legit" way to get my needs met.

Maybe she saw me as having a tantrum and decided I needed to do a better job at regulating my emotions before allowing such a powerful memory to surface. It's possible that is why she recommended DBT. But, it seems to me, if she had helped me "hold" those strong emotions that come with such painful memories and I felt comforted by having someone present while feeling them, that the comfort would become a balm to the pain and thus help diminish those more intense emotions. In my unprofessional opinion, that would help regulate my emotions and it would allow me to stay in relationship. I think of a child running breathlessly to a parent after witnessing something very traumatic. Before the child can explain what just occurred the parent needs to remind the child to calm down, take a slow deep breath, and calmly start over with the story. That, right there, is a small example of training a child to regulate their emotions.

I can pontificate all night long but in the end, I must figure out the next step of this dimly lit path. Thanks for your encouragement.

deeplyrooted

{{{{{{{deeplyrooted}}}}}}}

I am terribly sorry to hear what has happened to you. I had a longer response almost ready to send to you, and then I had that mysterious thing happen to me that I've heard has happened to others before - it mysteriously disappeared (myshrink even kicked me off and I had to log in again - weird!!). And I'm out of time for now...but I just wanted to say I'm sorry for the pain you are in right now. I will write more later. Hang in there, DR!

SG

While reading the post, massive missive, by AG I realized something must have happened along the therapy road that interrupted the positive feelings I had for my therapist. I did not realize until now just how closed and guarded I was with her. I realize that this long-time therapist would know that my connection to her was not strong enough for me to directly confront the trauma memories that were trying to surface. I am not saying this is her reason, as I am sure there are other reasons for her sudden withdrawal, but I realize that this is one very good reason that makes sense to me. For weeks, I resented her boundaries and have cried a bucket full of tears trying to understand how her decision to terminate was good for me. An ongoing dysfunctional pattern of mine is not to respect her wisdom or to trust her heart. I find myself second guessing and analyzing everything she does instead of trusting her. I keep looking for proof that she does not care by looking for fault. When I begin to think that she does care about me, I am afraid to believe it. Yet these are conversations I never had with her.

With this latest episode, I failed to remember that all these years she was watching me closely and had grown to know me well. One thing she would know is how determined I am to my healing and that I would move forward without reasonable caution or patience. Instead, I will allow myself to get overwhelmed, thinking that I must hurry through them so I can heal. I now think she did what she had to do in order to honor the code, client safety first. She suggested I attend DBT Skills for six months (or more) and then after she enjoyed three months without me, and I returned for a visit, she began terminating my individual therapy with her. This greatly distressed and confused me. I can't figure out how another therapist is going to be able to help me right now. But then I realized that even if I jump in to another relationship she knows it will take time before I can trust a new therapist with these horrific memories. So, by default, the process slows down. At the moment I do not think I will continue to look for another therapist; at least until I can completely accept this loss. If I can do that, then I would be able to say I have begun to internalize the DBT Skills and am now better able to move forward with another therapist who specializes in trauma and dissociative issues.

In the meantime, I think it would be good for me to spend some time taking an honest look at the relationship I had with this therapist and see what it is I can learn from it and of my relational patterns. I need to be willing to see the good from our time together. I want to look at all the things at which I took offense and be willing to see them from her viewpoint. I know I will suffer how it feels to love because she really did try to help me and grieve how I pushed that care away because I could not accept it. Maybe I can benefit from this exercise without the risk of still being in the relationship. Maybe this could be a way for me to glean all I can, identify what I need and see how I sabotage relationships.

If anyone sees red flags flying and thinks this is not a healthy exercise, please tell me. So many of you understand the process so much more than I do.

deeplyrooted

Hi DR,
I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I have so much respect for how you're willing to examine and learn from what happened. I think that it's healthy for you to look at what happened, but my only caveat is that as human beings we can only know ourselves IN relationships. It is in how we relate to other people that our unconscious wishes and feelings are brought into the light. So while I think that your reflecting on your own about what happened will to some degree be helpful, I do not believe that full healing can be achieved all on our own by most people. So I do think eventually finding another therapist to work with, when you feel ready to face that, would be a good idea.

AG

Hello Deeplyrooted

I too am really sorry for what you have been (and are going) through - having a T terminate in response to expressing anger would put me in a really black place. From what you’ve written my first response was anger on your behalf - what kind of T takes the words that you spoke in frustration and hurt at face value and uses them as an opportunity to get rid of you! It sounds like she was using them as a kind of ‘excuse’ to push you away so I’m wondering what actual reasons she gave you for terminating? That you are now struggling to find some way of making sense of it all tells me she hasn’t properly explained to you her reasons.

And that you are telling yourself that she did it with your best interests at heart makes me feel sad because it sounds like you are blaming yourself for it, looking to see what you did ‘wrong’ that ‘made’ her withdraw.

It’s no bad thing for you to think about your relationship with your T in order to see patterns or things that might be operating in other relationships, but I have to say that I did respond to that with a red alert in my head! I guess I have this image of a good T as being eminently capable of dealing with and helping sort through negative feelings towards them and the whole issue of trust and feeling safe enough to be open about frightening and overwhelming feelings and memories - and to me it doesn’t sound like your T was doing this at all - so my red alert is more to do with the fact that I see you dropping into a well of self blame - it would be so easy for you to see how it was all about you not being ‘good’ enough in the relationship to get her to properly help you.

I echo AG in her suggestion that finding another T when you feel ready would be a good idea, this is no small or trivial thing that has happened and being able to sort it out with another T would really help you.

Having said all that I have to put in my own caveat that I don’t understand the process very much at all, so am just giving you my personal response to what’s happened to you.

Hugs to you Deeplyrooted

Lamplighter

I appreciate your responses to my situation, AG and LL. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have to bring the anger I feel toward my therapist for terminating me, and whatever was already feeding it, to another therapist and somehow trust that the new therapist will be willing to hear about my anger.

You are right, LL. I am blaming myself and my mind is full of if only I had........I think what she did to me was wrong, unfair, unjust, insensitive, selfish, demanding, and cruel regardless of how much "good" I am trying to make out of it.

I forgot to mention that what she did to me was also cowardly and unprofessional! I guess I don't know how to pick a therapist or recognize when one is not helping. I hang on too long to what is not good just so I can somehow make it into what I need. No matter who I blame or where I look, in the end, I will always see my own failure. I can learn from that but every situation I encounter will be a new one with its own set of risks. I will never get it right. Never. If that is the goal of therapy then I quit. I am chasing the wind because the process of learning is growing is life-long.

I am angry that I am forced to start over with someone new. I am angry for choosing this therapist in the first place. I expect to foresee all problems and to avoid them. I live in fear around everyone. Where do I go to discuss the dysfunctional relational aspects of surviving childhood sexual abuse if I can't go to a therapist who should understand. I am angry she will not be for me what I need. No one can be for me what I need. I guess the sooner I get that the sooner I can let this go. The opportunity for getting what I needed from the people who owed it to me ended decades ago when I became an adult. I am left to make sense of and fix all the carnage left in the wake of what they did to me or did not do for me. Now, the one and only person who knows the whole story refuses to help me. I don't get it.

How do I make this about the past?

Aw (((((deeplyrooted)))))
You are hurting and rightly so. And you are right That what she did was cowardly and unprofessional, so you have every right to be angry. But the anger needs to be directed at her, not at you as well. You have done nothing wrong in all this so you have not failed at all, you have just been let down in the worst way possible. Your past traumas will make trusting people hard in the first place, we think everybody will let us down again, so when they do, it fuels the belief that there must be something wrong with us, because it just keeps happening.

You are right, your therapist SHOULD understand, that is their job, but there are a lot that seemingly don't. It sounds trite to say there will be someone who can help you out there but I believe there will be and you WILL be able to work through this safely and in a helpful way to eventually truly put it behind you. I cannot imagine how hard it will be to go through your story again with someone else, but I think that is the only way you can make it about the past. I tried on my own for a long time to just forget and carry on, but it never really worked, I also tried with my T to just do a few bits of it, but that's not working either - the only way forward seems to be to work together. Deeplyrooted, unless you are immensely strong, this seems like too big an ask for you to get through all your past traumas on your own. I do hope you might be able to find the right person, I know there are plenty of people here who have experience and helpful advice if you try to do that. In the meantime, remember that it really wasn't your fault - just like your childhood traumas - not one bit of it.

starfish

{{{{{{{{{{deeplyrooted}}}}}}}}}}

What you are saying just rings so loudly with me...I just have to respond to this and let you know, there really is hope although I really understand why you can't see it right now. I'm so, so sorry you are hurting like this.

quote:

I guess I don't know how to pick a therapist or recognize when one is not helping. I hang on too long to what is not good just so I can somehow make it into what I need.

It hurts so much to read this. This kind of thing is a symptom of having experienced the kind of abuse you described. You might as well blame yourself for having been born to parents who didn't know what they were doing. What choice did you have? And you can't blame yourself either for trusting and working hard with someone whose job it is to be trustworthy!!! You did nothing wrong, deeplyrooted. Really!! It sounds like you were terminated for expressing your feelings...but that really doesn't make sense, does it? We go to therapy to learn how to express our feelings...so to get terminated for doing that really is pretty bogus. I think you know that already, otherwise you wouldn't be feeling angry.

I was also terminated abruptly for the bogus reason of expressing my feelings. So much of what you said in your post has gone through my mind SO many times since then, I mean practically verbatim, such as:

quote:

I think what she did to me was wrong, unfair, unjust, insensitive, selfish, demanding, and cruel regardless of how much "good" I am trying to make out of it.

I have no doubt you will get something good out of this eventually, but it sounds like you are trying to do what I did, see the good before you work through the anger. And you really do owe it to yourself to work through the anger, because you really WERE treated wrong, unfair, etc. Your anger is a healthy reaction to what happened and I very much wish for you that you would find a T who is willing to hear about your anger.

When I started with my current T I had the same fear. But what you said applied to me too - stuck between a rock and hard place - so what choice did I have? The kind of therapy I wanted from the beginning is the kind where I can bring ALL of me, all my warts and everything, and be brutally honest and face whatever it is I need to in order to grow and change. What hurt so much about the termination is that I was terminated for taking what was a very courageous step (considering how terrified I was) to do exactly that, after having been encouraged directly BY HIM to do just that! Fortunately my current T turned out to be EXACTLY what I had been looking for all along in a T but it was scary at first because I was so afraid I was talking about what happened with the former T too much. But she never got sick of it and gave me a safe place to work through the feelings. She even offered at one point to accompany me back to the clinic to say some things to that T that I didn't get to say at the time because I was so scared. At this point I doubt I'll take her up on it, but it felt so good that she was on my side enough to make an offer like that.

quote:

I will never get it right. Never. If that is the goal of therapy then I quit.

Nope!!! That's not the goal of therapy. Not even close!! So the good news is that you don't have to quit. What I am finding with my current T is a safe place where I can talk about anything, feel anything, and no matter what I say or feel, I can't get it wrong because she doesn't react with her own feelings, agenda, assumptions, judgements, whatever. And yet she is still very genuine and responsive and caring. So what I think you need is a T like that, who can hear you and be with you in the space of YOUR therapy.

FWIW my current T describes her approach as psychodynamic. Would it be possible for you to find someone like that? Or who has had experience working with trauma patients, or who knows about attachment theory?

It is so wild that you are posting about this right now, because just in the past week, I've been noticing that my anger about what happened with my former T is FINALLY fading away. And I don't think it's a coincidence that in the last few weeks I have finally started to be able to feel in my current T's presence. I've started "coming out of my shell" so to speak and the rewards are already beginning to show themselves, although I have a long way to go.

So I really want to encourage you right now that your anger is healthy, justified, and needs to be heard by someone who has done enough of their own work so they can hear you and give you empathy to work through it. It really is possible to find someone who can give you at least some of what you didn't get as a kid, enough to allow you to work through the grief of what you can't get now. But I am SO sorry you have been let down by your T. It is an awful, despairing, painful experience to invest in a relationship like that only to be re-injured and re-abandoned, especially for doing what you were supposed to do, tell her how you were feeling. That's exactly the kind of injury so many of us are in therapy for in the first place. But please don't give up, there really are T's out there who "get it". I knew my current T "got it" from the first session I met her and I still feel overwhelming relief about it. Even though it's taken me a while to let my defenses down, because she is so skilled, I've made more progress with her than I ever could have with my former T. And it took 8 months for the connection to start and for the anger to finally start healing. But it really is happening and that's what I wish for you so much. Please keep talking here as much as you need to, that's what I did after the termination and I'm so grateful this board was here or I doubt I would have made it. Sending you lots and lots of virtual hugs...

SG

Wow Strummergirl that is a great post - thanks for that!

Deeplyrooted some of the things you are saying make me feel even more sad -

quote:

No one can be for me what I need. I guess the sooner I get that the sooner I can let this go.

That is just so not right it shouldn’t be that way at all. And I say that from 50 plus years of experiencing exactly the same thing. Endlessly looking for what I need from the world, from friends, lovers, therapists and always finding myself flat on my backside wondering for the zillionth time what the hell did I do wrong THIS TIME (and finding the answers so easily!)

In a way it’s good that you are angry (even though there is no-one to tell that anger to so it feeds off itself against you) - because for me anger is the one thing that’s kept me going, that sense of something not right, something not fair, some con going on of which I’m obscurely aware but can’t quite get it clear.

I’m using my anger to keep at therapy - just finished with a therapist whom I finally recognized wasn’t going to give me what I need and am now in the process of trying to find a better one. And I’m refusing to blame myself for it (even though inside of course I believe it’s all my fault and I’ll never get what I need and will just have to accept that, just like your comment above…)

But having been on this forum long enough now to learn what good therapy can be about I’m pretty convinced that it IS possible to find the right T, someone who will give me what I need - and that’s let me see that the anger that I’ve had to keep controlled and turned against me is actually telling me a truth - and it’s strong enough to make me keep on looking and looking until I find the right person.

Sorry that’s a bit of a long-winded way to say that it’s not your fault, that you don’t at all need to accept that you’ll never get what you need, and that the anger you are feeling is totally legitimate and justified and that you can use it to help you get what you need. It doesn’t all have to be directed at the past or about the past - your T was in the wrong, present fact - no matter how much of the past is coming out in your feelings and reactions that doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve your legitimate anger now.

Hm I’m pretty sure that’s not what you were asking - but I’m just wondering whether you are trying to make connections between what happened with your T and the past in order to make some sense of it? Strummergirl has given some amazing insights into those connections I couldn’t even begin to explain it so will defer to her wonderfully clear explanations.

I guess I’d like to say to you the things I try and tell myself - you deserve to get what you need, just hang in there and don’t give up on yourself.

Lamplighter

Strummergirl and Lamplighter: What can I say? You have both shared amazing insight. Thank you for your words of encouragement. I am humbled by the time and effort it took for you to share them with me. Every time I reread them I cry at the same lines. I am not sure if those tears come because my feelings are validated or because of the work that lay ahead of me; maybe a mixture of both.

quote:

It really is possible to find someone who can give you at least some of what you didn't get as a kid, enough to allow you to work through the grief of what you can't get now.Strummergirl

It is hard to grieve what I did not get as a child because I do not remember my childhood. It is even harder to grieve what I can't get now. Partly because it is hard to see or admit how I am still looking for what I did not get growing up. It feels too shameful! I will want someone to do something for me that they are not suppose to do. It's the shame of asking someone to prostitute themselves, if I can use that analogy.

quote:

Just finished with a therapist whom I finally recognized wasn’t going to give me what I need and am now in the process of trying to find a better one.Lamplighter

Good for you LL for knowing what you need and having the strength to go look for it. You are so right, I was trying to see the good before working through the anger. I think I tried to do that because I know if I let myself feel the anger, then I will lose whatever connection I have left of her and I am not ready to do that. When I ponder this, I can see how I am afraid to feel anger in all my relationships. I see anger as a weapon that stands between me and others. I hide behind it. If I pick it up and use it, I will, in one way or another, push away everyone and I will be left alone. The only way back in with anyone will have to come through forgiveness. If I do that, then nothing will be left for me to hide behind. In the end, I will become genuine(vulnerable) but they will become human(forgive-able). !It's a long process.

I don't know if that makes sense but these thoughts come out of my tendency to analyze and walk around a problem ten times before acting. (Too bad I don't also do that before reacting.) After walking around it, I will walk to the edge of its cliff, look over and try to figure out where it is that I will land if I jump. If I can't be sure of a safe landing, I may not take the leap.

I am hearing, LL, that one way I can use the anger in a productive way is to use it to fuel my search for another T and to not give up on myself. As I battle against feeling depressed, I can let anger push me through the pain of starting over. It is just so hard not to believe that I am the one who made the colossal mistake. When I look back at my childhood I can see where believing that lie came easily and how it was reinforced repeatedly. I'm not sure if sharing those details are appropriate on this forum but it is clear that the more I make that connection the easier it will be to let the scale tip as far as it needs to go. One thing the T said is that I keep making the anger about the present and not about the past. That is why I was trying to make the connection.

What you both say is true, I am believing a lie when I blame myself for this, and I need to hear it. It is helping me to place the blame on whom it belongs. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to my rant and for caring enough to tell me that!

deeplyrooted

Deeplyrooted :hug:

Just posting quickly to say that your post has made me think of lots of things I'd like to say especially about your T's comment that you keep 'making' anger about the present and not the past - but right now have to rush off and will post more later.

Thinking of you

Lamplighter

I am so sorry for your experience with your T. I can't explain things any better than the others already did as they were all so eloquent and thorough in their responses.

I would like to add that I think it is possible to find the kind of T that you need to work through these issues. I have been to several "talking" T's and while one was somewhat helpful, the others were at best maintaining status quo or at worst harmful.

I work with a T who specializes in trauma and has great experience with attachment and dissociative disorders. She uses several approaches, but the most helpful method that she uses is called Sensorimotor Psychotherapy. She is also trained in EMDR and we have used that here and there. Sensorimotor psychotherapy has been exactly what I needed and it is perfect for treating trauma. The T that I work with now is helping me in ways that no other T has ever been able to. You can visit the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute and click on Find a therapist to see if there are any in your area. http://www.sensorimotorpsychot....org/home/index.html

I think that you really just haven't found the right T yet. It is possible to get what you need and have a T that really gets it. You deserve that and you deserve to feel better.

I appreciate your thoughts, STRM. I imagine a sensorimotor therapist would do great with trauma clients and I am glad you are in such capable hands. Unfortunately, there isn't anyone in my local area trained in this type of therapy. This really adds to my angst and confusion over what my therapist has one because she is the one who introduced me to the book "The Body Remembers" and she understands how the body stores memories and how it can help trauma clients process memories. She is also trained to use EMDR and we used that on few occasions. She understands attachment theory. We've never talked about it but I know that she identifies herself with a particular color. Her clients pick up on that and attach to something of that color as a means of comfort and a reminder of her. She did other things to encourage attachment as well. I know that she works with other trauma clients and that she understands healing is a long process. All this has left me very confused and discouraged. It is partly why I keep asking myself "what did I do wrong?"

deeplyrooted

{{{{{{deeplyrooted}}}}}}

quote:

All this has left me very confused and discouraged. It is partly why I keep asking myself "what did I do wrong?"

Nothing that I can see, DR. But I know that's practically impossible to believe right now because it hurts so much. I am so sorry that you have been essentially abandoned after four years of hard work with this T. I was only with mine for eight months when I was terminated, and the pain was very bad, so I can only imagine how much pain you are in right now.

It bothers me that you say she knows about attachment, and yet she's ending therapy with you in the most painful way imaginable for someone with attachment issues. It doesn't make sense, and I can only guess that her own issues are getting in the way of her helping you. Either that, or she's extended herself to the limits of her expertise in attachment and simply doesn't know where to take you from here. But it hurts just the same either way - so I wish she would have been a lot kinder to you in how she ended it.

Sometimes I wonder if T's are forbidden to admit it at all, when they have personal reasons for stopping therapy (just to the point of taking the burden of blame off the patient, without going into detail about what those reasons are), because of the potential for a lawsuit. There was a woman on this board a while back, Charlotte, whose T ended abruptly with her after she admitted transference to him...but the way it was handled left her feeling cared for and not blamed or abandoned (although the in-between part was still pretty difficult). I wish our T's had handled it like hers did.

Your asking "what did I do wrong?" keeps reminding me of AG's response to a very similar question I posted in my "Long rant - very confused" thread shortly after my abrupt termination. Her response really "rocked" so rather than try to paraphrase it, I'll just quote her.

First, here was my question:

quote:

How could I have been so stupid? Maybe I really did screw up the therapy somehow. This was the third therapist I tried. Maybe I'm too sick for therapy. Maybe I should just leave therapists alone and try to live my life the best I can.

From AG:

quote:

This is the reason that mishandling transference is SO very damaging. Most people who have experienced long term childhood trauma see themselves as defective and worthless.

quote:

We are SO vulnerable when revealing these feelings and even more so since our vulnerability in the past led to such damage. And so it is all too easy to make us turn on ourselves.

Actually there were a lot of great responses on that thread, and I was grateful for every one of them - but this particular statements of AG's seem to answer your question just like they answered mine. Like AG said, I know you want to turn this on yourself...but I really don't think you've done anything wrong.

Please lean on us as much as you need to so we can help you get through this.

Hugs,
SG

Deeplyrooted I made it back - here’s that threatened longer post.

Firstly I can see that you are really suffering with the sense that it’s all somehow down to you, your fault in some way that your T terminated and as I know that experience SO well I also know that no amount of rationalizing and looking at it all objectively can allay that self blame. I am therefore wondering if you wouldn’t be able to talk to her about it? It’s something that’s eating away at you and maybe it would be helpful if you could actually get to see her one more time to discuss her reasons for terminating and how it has affected you?

I am guessing the worst part of it all is your not knowing why and so you’re coming up with as many valid and legitimate reasons as you can, mostly ending up in seeing yourself as the problem. Just want to repeat - IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! Nor should you be beating yourself up for not having magically known that this T wasn’t right for you in the first place - you went to your T in absolute good faith, bringing yourself and whatever problems or issues you had - and it was her job to help you and be on your side and not your job to have to double guess what her agenda might be.

The therapy relationship isn’t like real world ones - you shouldn’t have to be expected to analyze yourself to try and work out what you’re doing ‘wrong’ if the relationship doesn’t seem as good as it could be - ideally the T should be able to bring all that sort of stuff up in a healing way, not leaving you to puzzle over your supposed failings and faults. Sorry I could get carried away here because I’ve been in this same position so often and even though I come up with a thousand and one things I did/didn’t do could or should have done it doesn’t change me, just makes me more frightened and self hating and infinitely more wary of trusting anyone. That’s why I consciously chose anger as my way out - ok I’m not able to get full on truly legitimately angry, but I have enough resentment to find blame where I think blame lies, and be defensive enough about my self perceived badnesses to keep pushing to find help.

That’s what I meant by it’s being good that can feel some anger about it - somewhere obscurely inside yourself you are aware that she is at fault here and that it’s not really your fault - and that means you do have the strength within yourself to keep looking for the right help and support. I really think you would be doing yourself a favour by looking for another therapist, specifically initially to help you sort out the mess your ex-T has left you in. This is not a small issue, it’s major - and worthy of being taken very seriously not just by another therapist, but by you. Don’t for one moment think that you’re overreacting or being unfair to your ex-T.

quote:

One thing the T said is that I keep making the anger about the present and not about the past.

This comment had me hopping mad (sorry I get hot under the collar really easily!) Maybe it’s founded in a truism (that a lot of how we react in the present is down to unexpressed feelings about the past) but to me it sounds like your T was trying to push you exclusively into the past and not acknowledging how you genuinely felt in the here and now. Actually I believe that ALL feelings have their genesis in the present and it’s not so easy to go ‘oh that makes me angry oh I probably aren’t ‘really’ angry at that I’m probably ‘really’ angry at x or y or z in the past’ when as far as I can tell the only way to make proper internally comprehensible connections to unexpressed past issues is by tapping into the feelings created by present situations. Which means being allowed to go with whatever is making you feel bad in the present and letting the feelings themselves bring up any past connections.

I also get mad at comments like that (which I call psychobabble) because it’s such an easy way for someone to invalidate and negate perfectly normal acceptable rational and reasonable feelings experienced in response to a real thing in the present. It’s so easy to get caught up in the profound doubt of ‘oh do I really feel this about that, am I wrong to feel this way about that, what am I ‘really’ feeling this about’. And a dodgy T is expert at that kind of invalidation (even more so than people in the real world, who themselves are pretty good at offloading negative feelings by questioning their cause.)

I’m sorry Deeplyrooted if I’m going on too much about this, I just feel so angry on your behalf because I can hear the things you are saying against yourself as being just the sort of stuff I struggle with all the time - so I’m kind of fighting on my own behalf too in a way.

What is your DBT therapist like? Can she help you at all with this issue? Would she be any good as a new T, or able to recommend someone? From my current experience (looking for a new T, and now just having found one) I know that being T-less when you have really painful issues that are screaming to be dealt with is a hellish way to be - that dead end hopeless I can’t be helped nothing will ever change feeling that suddenly takes over. But knowing that someone is there or could be there, really changes that, suddenly there is hope again and that makes a huge difference. Which is probably why I’m pushing you to think about finding another T. Sorry if I’m being too pushy, at the end of the day of course you know what’s right for you. I really hope you are doing ok - please keep posting, I notice you wondered in an earlier post whether it was ok or not to post some stuff - I say go for it, say as much as you want to or feel comfortable doing - this is a pretty supportive forum and no-one judges or tells anyone that they shouldn’t have posted what they did. It can be a great T substitute when you need it, this place, and right now I think you could do with all the support you can get

Lamplighter

[quote]that dead end hopeless I can’t be helped nothing will ever change feeling that suddenly takes over.[Lamplighter/quote]

Yep, it's back with a vengeance. I wrote a long emotional ramble but deleted it. There is no need for rehashing the pain and trying to make sense of it. What she did to me was a travesty! She used all sorts of excuses to get rid of me and twisted the knife after I revealed something BIG. If I am going to heal, I have to walk through it to get to the other side. That's just the way it is. I plan to write the board of directors at the clinic. Not sure if it will be one of those DNS letters or something that I mail. It depends what it is I want to see happen as a result. That's vague to me right now.

Thank you again, AG, SG, LL, Starfish and STRM for sharing your insights, opinions and encouragement with me. Even though I am struggling, I want you to know they did not go to waste. I plan to go back and re-read your posts on this thread and let them remind me that there is hope, this pain will not last forever, that this is not my fault, and that I will find a T who can help me process all that happened.

Tomorrow I am meeting with another T. This will be #3 since the termination and I have one more on my list.

It's tempting to pretend I never started down this journey and throw my energy into something completely different. But I can't. It must continue concurrently with the rest of life. If I quit then the pain will continue dictating how I respond to stress and difficult relationships and stealing joy.

Thanks for listening,

deeplyrooted

deeplyrooted

All the best for tomorrow - I hope this one turns out well for you. Well done for your determination and perseverence, I really want it to pay off for you.

Am also pleased to see some fight there amongst all that hurt and pain - to write that letter might help get some answers and some closure on how you were mistreated, so well done for planning to do something about that.

Don't throw in the towel deeplyrooted - this is the way to get rid of your pain in the long run. I'm sorry that the journey is so bumpy for you.

starfish

(((( Deeplyrooted ))))


I really hope this T number 3 is the one for you. Let us know how your T search is going (it’s good that you still have another T to see - are you going to see them all and then decide, or do you already have ideas about who you do or don’t want to see?) Don’t give up, at the least it would be really good for you to have a therapist with whom you can work through the crap your last T has put you through.

Thinking of you

Lamplighter

Deeplyrooted how is your T search going? Any luck with the appointments you mentioned in last post? Let us know how you are doing anyway?

Lamplighter

I started with a new T (interview #5) about five weeks ago. I found her through RAINN. The organization she works for specializes in working with sexual abuse victims but because she works for a federal grant program I can only see her for six months. She is helping me set goals for our time together and through that we are getting to know one another. Her approach and personality are very different than my ex-T. I have to be careful not to compare them too much. I am finding that distance inherent in time is helping to reduce my feelings about what happened. I wish I were better able to explain what is going on with me in a way that I think outsiders will understand and am going to keep trying to do it. I continue attending the weekly DBT Skills class. the facilitator cannot see me for inidividual therapy as long as I am in the class but she can see me on an individual basis if I am in a crisis. I have taken her up on that a couple of times and feel that I have that option as a backup while I am building the trust I need with the new T.

Until that trust is built I have not entered anything really new,hard or deep. I realize there are many layers to doing that but part of the trust issue I am attuning to is how she reacts to some of the smaller issues I bring to her. With my former T, I knew what to expect from her in and out of sessons but not yet with this new one. That information takes time to gather and I am trying to trust the process and not rush it or become impatient (LOL I accidentally typed inpatient, which would fit quite well as I cannot afford to 'go off the deep end'). The good thing is I am beginning to see something valuable during the wait. I am continuing to recognize more of the damage that has been done as a result of my upbringing. That insight is giving me something more tangible to grieve because I have lived in denial for so long. It is making me become more accepting of the fact that there is a reason that my defenses will not release the torrent of emotions that occassionally rise to the surface and threaten to break through the walls. I am learning how to tolerate tress and regulate the more intense feelings a little better. I am learning to let them out a bit more carefully so that I do not get overwhelmed but also so that I retain a sense of dignity. I am learning to recognize how differently each one feels in my body, what triggers them and how I respond to them. There is alot to this and none of it can be rushed. I have not embraced that truth very well. If there is a short cut I want to find it! Someone on the forum recently quoted their therapist as saying for trauma clients the slower we go the faster we get there. It made me think of the children's storybook, Tortoise and the Hare. If I remember it right...the first to cross the finish line was the steady and slow tortoise.

One other thing the wait is helping me do is establish more resources. I am developing a few new friendships and attending to some established one's in my real life. I am seeking a mentor or someone who will guide me spiritually and will pray for me. I also want to use this forum as a resource and turn to it for support. Expressing myself and sharing what is going on with me is good for me to learn but it is also hard for me to do. I rarely know where to start. I want to keep working at establishing a relationship with you all so that when it gets really hard again I will feel some comfort in knowing there are others who understand. It would be easier to just wait until I am in pain and then jump in and vent. I know many of you would offer encouragement but I don't think it will mean as much to me if I do not first know you have also struggled and that you know the context of mine. Knowing your struggles helps me remember I am not alone nor am I the only one who is in pain. When I read your posts and offer a word of encouragement my thoughts are not on myself for that moment. It helps to know I can give a little something even when I am consumed with my own pain. I guess that means we are sort of in this together. I hope all that makes sense.

I continue to say I am amazed at how much is involved in the process of healing. In my defense, I have to admit that I had no idea how deeply I am wounded. I guess that information must come to me slowly. Sometimes, there seems to be no end in sight to the depth of wounds or the path of healing. But like you, LL, and everyone else here, I will not give up. I think we share a strong sense of determination. That trait will help us prevail. This reminds me of a magnet stuck to my refrigerator. "I'd give up chocolate but I am no quitter."

deeplyrooted

[QUOTE]And sharing your own stuff helps just as much as answering other posts - it's just a different type of giving, but just as important!!! You have no idea how much others are relating to you, many of whom we may never hear from because they are being silent right now. You are "normalizing" other people's experiences just by sharing your own.[Strummergirl/QUOTE]

I read this quote by SG in a response to a post on a much longer thread and copied it because I didn't want anyone to miss it. I love how she communicates her thoughts and puts things in perspective. I really appreciate this so much because it is something I really need to hear and do not want to forget! It really is a great relief and much closer to reality than what I think I am capaable of. I knew it once but lost sight of it.

It is becoming more and more clear to me that I am on the verge of a flood of intense emotions and/or buried memories. It is obvious to me (from my last post)that I am actively making preparations for it. The reality is that when I or anyone else gets overwhelmed there is very little left of us to give. When that happens I may be tempted to shame myself and stay away. Or, I may put pressure on myelf to deny my pain and attend instead to the pain of someone else. Of course doing that would clearly be a repeat of the family dynamics I am trying to shed from my childhood. All that to say, I am adding this mental permission to my preparations for the torrential downpour. If I come here and can barely stick my head above water I can do that without the pressure of taking care of anyone else. Bless you, Strummergirl.

Yes, critic, I realize I just said all that with my out loud voice.

deeplyrooted

Hi DR... those were two very eloquent posts. And yes, it seems to me that in setting up support resources and in slowly testing your new T that you are making your preparations to go deeper and examine some really painful stuff. I tend to do the same thing. My T, who after 2.5 years now knows me pretty well, calls this my "foreshadowing" and he can now tell when and where things are moving. I also remember that post by SG that you quoted and thought it was a very important point. She has a wonderful insight and a real knack for expressing things.

I see a lot of new self-awareness in your posts. I find it hard to post when I should probably do so. I tend to try to be supportive and help rather than vent my own painful stuff. It's that sense of bothering people that I can't get past which was ingrained into me from childhood. You just didn't bother mom because it was dangerous to attract her attention in anyway. Better to just stay invisible.

It seems that Emily Dickinson is oft quoted here and having read a fair amount of her poetry I wonder if she had an abusive childhood. It just seems that she understands and "gets" the feeling that come along with it. I just wanted to share something that stayed with me after reading it...

"A loss of something ever felt I--
The first that I could recollect
Bereft I was-- of what I knew not
Too young that any should suspect---"
.......Emily Dickinson

Best,
TN

((( Deeplyrooted )))

Good on you for finding yourself a new T - and taking it slowly getting to trust her - it sounds like you are pretty well aware of what you need and want to get out of therapy, and I’m glad you are giving yourself time and space to get there.

quote:

I will not give up.

Yay! Shall we start a ‘Never give up’ club? Someone on a forum (can’t remember which one) has as their signature ‘the only way out is through’ - that’s where we’re all at I suspect, even if we wanted to give up I don’t think there’s much option, so we may as well turn it into a positive for ourselves. I’m so glad you’ve stuck up for yourself enough to get yourself back into therapy, lots of praise for you DR!

quote:

Yes, critic, I realize I just said all that with my out loud voice.

Lol - I like that - it’s good you’ve given yourself permission to look after yourself. I agree with you about SG’s quote - I needed to read that too because often I freak out when posting so much about myself and forget (well don’t think of it actually) that when I read others’ posts it really helps me so maybe what I write can mean something to someone else too. But it’s hard. I hope you do post a whole lot more, as you said things are coming to a head it can be really helpful to have somewhere (this forum) to just express whatever is going on and know people who understand are listening.

LL

Hi DR - I'm so glad that you found another T, thank you for telling us about it, it sounds like you are working VERY hard and it is amazing to hear about, especially all the details of what you are learning about yourself in being "forced" to take things slowly - paying attention to yourself and how you feel, emotionally and in your body, also making other connections and turning to others for support - this is all good for me to hear, being a really good isolater myself. And I'm glad you're watching yourself, being aware that you're getting ready for a downpour...and when it comes I hope your T helps you navigate it to what is on the other side, so to speak. It sounds like you are really working hard laying the foundation for the work to come and it is really awesome to see you go.

(I think I mixed about five different metaphors there...sorry about that!)

What you said about us all being in this together TOTALLY makes sense! In AA, they say you have to "give it away to keep it", meaning it helps us to help others in exactly the way we've been helped. There are times when I can't get out of myself, I'm in so much pain I can't even post...but as I'm reading, I'm taking things in, receiving and trying to use those things...and eventually, later, when I've moved past that spot and can post again, sometimes it comes out in trying to help someone else. And just the trying definitely takes me out of my own pain for a while, not in an avoidance way, but somehow in returning to my own stuff I find a bit of new strength or wisdom or insight, like someone left a little gift for me when I was away. Even without asking...and when I do ask, it is even better. I loved what you said about this, you said it so beautifully, DR. Thank you for that!

And I love the saying about chocolate.

As for the shout-out...I'm really glad that what I said helped you, but I was just repeating what has been said to me so many times right here on this forum...because I have needed to hear it, so many times...the first one that comes to mind is AG because she said practically the same thing to me in this thread, when I felt like I was talking too much about the pain of the termination with my ex-T...but I know many others here have said it, too. Here is what AG said in that thread:

quote:

And you're NOT talking about it too much. There are scores of people reading this who are relieved to hear that they are not alone in their feelings and who will read the responses you receive and the insight you achieve to understand themselves better. That's the whole point of the forum. No one can listen, if no one talks.

And before she blushes too much, she probably was passing on the reassurance that was given to her, too. So we are all blessed by each others' being here and it sounds like we are all grateful for it! It is all good.

Time for a virtual group hug {{{{{{{{{Psych Cafe forum members}}}}}}}}}}}

SG