Hi AV,

I can relate a little. My transference is mostly maternal, but I experience it from a range of developmental stages, so to speak.

There is a very regressed aspect of it that feels like early childhood. When I am like this, nothing makes me happier than a smile or a kind word from T and it seems as though the magic of hearing her voice can chase away all of my demons. I feel very trustful and a bit clingy.

But there is also an angry adolescent side to my transference. When I'm like this, I'm inclined to find fault with T, doubt her wisdom and intelligence, and pick on her a bit (though I generally am successful in restraining that impulse). I feel moody, contrary, and argumentative.

Then there's the "adult daughter" who looks up to T but interacts as more of an equal. When I'm like this, I will discuss more frankly issues regarding my marriage, or parenting my own kids. . . or we'll go all abstract and talk about philosophy, theology, literature, psychology, or religion. We frequently have very broad ranging conversations. T seems to enjoy these sessions, which is gratifying.

I feel in a way like I've moved through these stages in a somewhat linear fashion since beginning therapy, with each one lasting several months, but depending on what is coming up for me in real life there has been some cycling and overlap within that.

For me, the desire to take care of my T manifests in a fairly specific way-- I often wonder if she is eating well enough and wish I could cook for her. lol! I don't even know what that is in terms of transference. She seems healthy enough, it's just that I know she works late a lot and wonder if she has time to cook, or if she just settles for convenience food, fast food, or restaurants all the time. I don't like to think of T eating frozen dinners, for example. I'd rather serve her a bowl of home made minestrone and freshly baked breadsticks. Not like that will ever happen, but. . . I dream.

Phew, sorry for so much babbling and self analysis on your thread. I guess I'm just better at relating with my own experiences than actually offering insight or advice. But it does seem to be the case for both of us maybe, that if there were lacks in a variety of areas or development stages. . . that it all comes out in therapy. I agree that it can feel confusing and a tad overwhelming to project so many roles on the same person! Are we supposed to work through it in the sense of no longer having any transference at some point? I can't even imagine what that would look like for me and my T. It seems as though the relationship is the transference. Maybe that means I have a long way to go. . .

Hi AV,

quote:

They are almost like the holy trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But in my case they're Father, Son, and potential Partner.

I've done something similar with my T. Lots of paternal transference with a smattering of the erotic. Throw in some mother and sibling issues too as well as some negative figures from my past. You are lucky that it's all positive transference!!!!

Is it all about the unmet needs and how we've learned to get those needs met in the past? I do have to say with time and my T needing most of my needs, it has become less intense. I'm able to catch it more quickly when I start to relate to people IRL like that.

quote:

The role of her protector comes I think from the fact that she is alone with little close family and carries her inherited illness. I mean; I could easily spend an entire session talking to T about her and wanting to help her out!!

Hi AV...

I don't have a lot of time right now but I was wondering if the above feeling comes from your past when you were in the role of care-taking for either your inadequate parents or for your siblings. I fall into this role quite often and it was a major problem for me with oldT who allowed me to do that and then resented me for it and it really was detrimental to my therapy with him. I was always afraid to upset him because I had to take care of him.

My current T is well aware of my tendencies and does not allow me to take care of him AT ALL. He cares for me. It has been hard to accept this. For example, I am not allowed to bring him food items as gifts. I always "fed" my oldT.

And yes I mostly see my current T as my paternal attachment figure. He is my stronger wiser other. But at times, there is a smattering of erotic transference mixed in. That has been fairly recent and it is very fleeting. When that happens I have to examine whether it relates to some revelations that I need to share with him from my past which I am fearful of. I've also thrown onto T loads of negative transference which comes from the disasterous previous T relationship I had. That part has definitely lessened but it is still around.

I guess I've never progressed enough in therapy to find out if the other feelings of transference lessen in intensity. I'm hopeful in time that they will.

Happy New Year
TN

quote:

For example, I am not allowed to bring him food items as gifts. I always "fed" my oldT.

It must be an Italian thing. ('course with me it's just a fantasy, but still)

This is a really great topic, and one that hits home with me right now as well....

I am in the end phase of my therapy and in the grief stage, so I went through the transference issues, and it was the hardest part of therapy, at least for me it was.

I had primarily a maternal transference with my T, but there was a time when it was ET, and the negative transference was intense with her. She is one that never self discloses, very non emotional, and I really struggled with that because of my own mother having been so emotionally absent. My T saw my wrath on many occasions

Long story short.........keep talking about whatever you feel at the time for your T. I found that over time, you become more and more aware of it when it's actually happening, and the more you recognize, and accept it for what it is, the more it begins to resolve itself.

Try not to analyze, or mess with it too much because when you're in it, it can be very difficult.Even though it's a very normal part of therapy, I know, as do you, that it sure doesn't feel normal.

The transference and role projection are an issue for me right now as well in leaving therapy because my T only recognizes our relationship in that way: as transference/symbolic. So, I am grieving the loss of her, and my real time connection with her, but she doesn't acknowledge that. Seems a little odd to me, but I think that's maybe a different topic...................

Keep working at it.......you will get there, AV.


Blu

((((Draggers))))

I'm sure you are right in that a lot of the ET is because T is over ten years younger than I am and beautiful as well. Plus she has an uncanny resemblance to the first love of my life!
As to which role has the greatest pull; well initially when I first saw T it was the needy child role. I was broken and fighting just to survive and needed a lot of caring for. Once that initial need was being met, then the roles of lover and father figure started. Now, i think it is the protective fathering role that is the most pronounced. Thinking of T now, it's usually wanting to be there for her; to look after her etc.

((((HiC))))

quote:

When I am like this, nothing makes me happier than a smile or a kind word from T and it seems as though the magic of hearing her voice can chase away all of my demons.

I absolutely get this. I can have had the worst week possible emotionally, but as soon as T opens her door to me and says "Hi AV" it all just melts away.

Like you, my desire to take care of T is very specific and revolves entirely around her health; wanting to be there to do the things she finds difficult.

quote:

Are we supposed to work through it in the sense of no longer having any transference at some point? I can't even imagine what that would look like for me and my T.

Me neither; I find that thought quite frightening. Perhaps we both have a ways to go yet.

((((Liese))))

It's not all been positive transference. The negative side of the ET reared its ulgy head along with the green eyed monster of jealousy when T's new boyfriend almost literally drove into me as i was leaving my session one time. I was furious with T for allowing it to happen and there were a few harsh words on both sides.

Yes it is all about unmet needs I sure; and now that I know that T is there for me in the supporting caring role that has become much less intense.

((((TN))))

I don't recall any times in the past when i was in the role of 'care taker' as such. Although i do remember our mother couldn't be bothered to take my younger sister to school on her first day and told me to do it. Sis was 4 or 5, and i was about 6!
I can't help but feel the care taking thing stems from the unfulfilled need of never having children to care for somehow.

quote:

I always "fed" my oldT.

Haha; I still feed T, even now! She did very well for homegrown stuff from the garden last year. I thought it would keep her healthy!

((((Blu))))

quote:

so I went through the transference issues, and it was the hardest part of therapy, at least for me it was.

Absolutely. If I'd known just HOW painful transference is I'd never have willingly put myself through it.

I'm so lucky with my T in that I can keep talking about it; even the ET stuff. I guess I am recognising it as it happens and simply by expressing it here; I'm accepting it for what it is.

We will keep working at it and perhaps one day I'll see her simply as my T, just another 'normal' person in my life. But you know, at the moment; there's a little part of me that's saying 'I don't want that to happen, not just yet'....maybe I'm not ready yet.


AV.

Avoidant,
I really have to comment on this but I have to go will be back a bit later. It surely is what has happened and what I can't figure out how to deal with and it has contributed to myself having such a difficult time with this holiday break and if I had known also that this is what happens I wouldn't have gone into therapy but would have done more self-help stuff. Really good topics members have been bringing up and such a relief just in knowing we're not the only ones. It's not just recognizing stuff but honest discussions with T "I guess" and moreso with members here that make me feel like I can openly talk to T about it. Anyways, thanks for starting this thread.


Hopeful

Edit: I shouldn't say I wouldn't have gone into therapy because although it has ebbs and flows it is an investment in myself. I want a little more encouragement from T but I understand why she gives it out so minimally.

Hey AV!

Happy New Year to you and everyone else reading!

Sometimes I wonder if it is not that we over analyse things? I mean in real life we are different things to different people, just in the same way that they are different things to us eg (I will speak from the female perspective - you can change it to the male perspective)...mother, daughter, friend, wife, aunt, cousin, employee, etc and since therapy covers all of those areas and you are talking to only ONE therapist while dealing with all of those areas/roles in depth, well it seems almost natural that your role play and/or perspective might change from topic to topic. If the perception/behaviour you are dealing with is slightly "abnormal" for lack of a better word, well look at it this way, therapy is equally as "abnormal" in a sense. The thing with therapy is that you are not just talking (well I'm not anyway) you are re-living and re-experiencing those feelings that you maybe never dealt with, or dealt with in distorted ways. So when you become that child it is easy to understand why the T looking back at you becomes that mother for example, and as your experience/role changes well so does his/hers.

For myself.... my own experience of therapy left me floored in the sense that transference took over and I became child-like, which is hardly the sort of thing I expected to experience, considering prior to therapy I was this highly functioning, assertive professional person. Furthermore I experienced maternal transference with a T that was younger than me and somewhere in the middle I thought she would be my perfect best friend, and of course she was someone I would protect with my life. I didn't have erotic transference thank goodness and I can only imagine how confusing and embarrassing that must be, so the fact that you have addressed it with your T is really something you can be proud of.

I guess what I am trying to say is the roles that you (and a lot of us) are/and have experienced are confusing, but then so is therapy and I don't think there is anything abnormal about experiencing those feelings, its just really good that you can discuss them so openly with your T.

B2W

HIC - you just put words to my extremely similar experience.

quote:

There is a very regressed aspect of it that feels like early childhood. When I am like this, nothing makes me happier than a smile or a kind word from T and it seems as though the magic of hearing her voice can chase away all of my demons. I feel very trustful and a bit clingy.

But there is also an angry adolescent side to my transference. When I'm like this, I'm inclined to find fault with T, doubt her wisdom and intelligence, and pick on her a bit (though I generally am successful in restraining that impulse). I feel moody, contrary, and argumentative.

Then there's the "adult daughter" who looks up to T but interacts as more of an equal. When I'm like this, I will discuss more frankly issues regarding my marriage, or parenting my own kids. . . or we'll go all abstract and talk about philosophy, theology, literature, psychology, or religion. We frequently have very broad ranging conversations. T seems to enjoy these sessions, which is gratifying.

AV - thanks for starting this thread. I've nothing to add, but appreciate the learning!

(((B2W)))

quote:

and since therapy covers all of those areas and you are talking to only ONE therapist while dealing with all of those areas/roles in depth, well it seems almost natural that your role play and/or perspective might change from topic to topic. If the perception/behaviour you are dealing with is slightly "abnormal" for lack of a better word, well look at it this way, therapy is equally as "abnormal" in a sense. The thing with therapy is that you are not just talking (well I'm not anyway) you are re-living and re-experiencing those feelings that you maybe never dealt with, or dealt with in distorted ways. So when you become that child it is easy to understand why the T looking back at you becomes that mother for example, and as your experience/role changes well so does his/hers.

Thank you for posting that reply. Having read it I can better understand 'why' this role play occurs and why it regularly switches from one role to another and back again. Strangely; the father/daughter scenario tends to occur most when I'm not seeing T or when she is away as she is as present; and the needy child or lover/partner roles become suppressed.

Maybe I was starting to over analyse this a bit; so thank you for your insight.

Wow AV,

quote:

I know that I project at least three different roles onto my T. They are almost like the holy trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But in my case they're Father, Son, and potential Partner. At times I feel as if I need her to mother me like a needy son and to support me. At other times I have an overwhelming need to be her protector and provider; her father figure if you like. And at other times, through E.T. I see her as a wonderful potential lover/partner.

I have been and continue to experience all these roles with my T and they can flip from one to the other almost instantly and without warning. The feelings that go with these roles are intense. Drives me crazy!

The hard part with the roles is that they "feel" so real. They are real to me. I sincerely care about my T as a person and aside from the ET role I am attracted to my T.

Good advise Blu. Everyone's posts helped ground me for now and glad they helped you AV.

k

Km

Sorry to hear you are going through these role projections as well. I know how much it hurts.

quote:

The hard part with the roles is that they "feel" so real. They are real to me. I sincerely care about my T as a person and aside from the ET role I am attracted to my T

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON; EVERY SINGLE WORD!!

Okay; I'll admit it here and now. I chose my T simply because she WAS the most beautiful looking T in my area!! Hardly scientific was it? Not the most sensible way to choose a T. Crazy? Probably. Stupid? Almost certainly. Do I regret it for one moment? NO!

The strange thing was; T asked me at the end of my first session why I had chosen her specifically; and I had to be honest and tell her exactly what I've written above! Talk about the complete opposite of avoidant behaviour.

I got lucky; very lucky; but I wouldn't recommmend that selection method to anyone else

There are many roles my T takes on - protector and abuser, father, friend and spouse. There are times I'm very clingy and just want to sit on his lap and be cuddled all day and other times I completely despise him and wish we'd never met. All to do with lots of early trauma and deprivation, losing both parents by 27 and current unfulfilled needs with my family.