What is a rupture RE?

a big, nasty fight?

I don't know the official definition, muff, but basically, I just mean that there was a breakdown in my relationship with T. I no longer feel supported or understood, even though we have talked about the incident that set me off.

T says everything is fine, but I don't feel right. T says further discussion is a diversion from "real work," whereas I feel the T relationship needs to feel right before other work can proceed. Does that make any sense?

That sounds a bit like you vented rage. Did you feel rejected by her for that to happen? If so, do you still think she will reject you again? That would be worth a chat to the quack.

RE,
I've been through ruptures a plenty, and had issues I had to return to again and again. The no hug policy took a long time to process (as in years) and included several bouts of screaming anger. You work to repair the rupture but if its still bothering you, keep returning to it. I find that if its still bothering me, I haven't dug down to the bottom of what is bothering me' I'm one week into a four week (at least) rupture right now, and its going to take some serious jabber to get to the other side.

Sometimes our therapists screw up and sometimes we get triggered. As much as we hate it, it happens. But we get to learn something really important in working it through. That someone can mess up and hurt and anger us, but that its safe to go express that to them, and repair the damage, restore attunement, and continue the relationship. It was a fantastically important lesson for me since I eclipsed my life by trying not to risk being hurt. But I am learning that being hurt is just another part of life and can be worked through. That the definition of safety is not absence of hurt, but being aware I can handle being hurt. A safe person is one I can talk to and repair things with, not someone who never hurts me. No such thing. To quote my T "if the only way for any of us to be safe is to only be in relationship with a perfect being, we're all screwed."

Go back and talk more if you need to.

AG

quote:

T says further discussion is a diversion from "real work," whereas I feel the T relationship needs to feel right before other work can proceed. Does that make any sense?

RE,
Sorry we cross posted. And may I respectfully disagree with your T, knowing that she knows you better than I, but knowing you know yourself best? As I stated above, working through ruptures with your T is a very important part of the real work. If this is still bothering you, than its going to get in the way of being able to go on. If you're not feeling better, then exploring why you don't and where that is coming from is really important information about you. I truly believe your T should be willing to continue talking about it unless she knows that only time and her behaving consistently will solve the problem. But in that case, she should say that.

AG

quote:

"if the only way for any of us to be safe is to only be in relationship with a perfect being, we're all screwed."

I'm aiming for safety within.

((RE))

I once had a rupture/misunderstanding with T for six months.

We worked thru it successfully and I learned a lot from it.

I agree with your T that it can be a diversion from the work, but that's not always the case.

My T may have believed I was resistant but she didn't say so is she did. She did however consistently pursue the why behind why it bothered me so much and for so long. We sort of made it part of the work, it it was the right way to go for me.

Ruptures are difficult!

But it's possible to get thru them and with a whole lot of insight as well.

muff, yes, I was outwardly enraged (a first!), but underneath it was a feeling of rejection/shame/humiliation, because I risked being open with T and did not receive warm, fuzzy reassurances. Ow. Thanks so much for your response, muff.

AG, I should have remembered your Hug Policy Talks. I really hope my current situation won't rival the length of your negotiations with BN on that point But I now understand how much courage and stamina that entailed. I am worn out after "only" 2 months.

quote:

the definition of safety is not absence of hurt, but being aware I can handle being hurt. A safe person is one I can talk to and repair things with, not someone who never hurts me. No such thing.

with your permission, I may have to get this tattooed in reverse script somewhere on my body, so I can see it in the mirror every day when I get dressed. Your words are a kinder, gentler version of my T's question "Are you going to DIE from it [hurt feelings/disappointment]?" Ow again. But I'm starting to see the point.

Thank you!
RabbitEars

quote:

I risked being open with T and did not receive warm, fuzzy reassurances.

What did you receive RE or RT.

Blu, sorry we cross-posted. Thanks for replying. And thanks for the reassurance... 6 months is a long time (((Blu))), but maybe there's hope in that.

I can "own" some resistance (though it certainly wasn't conscious resistance), but I guess I want T to think about my point of view too, not just brush it aside and say "everything's fine because I say so".

I will keep trying. Thanks for the encouragement.

RabbitEars

quote:
the definition of safety is not absence of hurt, but being aware I can handle being hurt. A safe person is one I can talk to and repair things with, not someone who never hurts me. No such thing.

Love this!!

quote:

What did you receive RT?

Hi, muff. It's RE (RabbitEars, not RedTomato)

I received nothing. Silence. Given that my T is most definitely not the silent psychoanalytic type, this nothingness/silence came as a shock to me. I have received more empathy over a paper cut than I did on the occasion in question. I don't want to say too much about the actual content of the session; it's still sensitive material for me.

I can speculate on the reasons for T's silence and even understand intellectually how it might have helped me, but the hurt and confusion linger on.

I'm wondering if you perceived silence as rejection when you were a wee one?

quote:

And may I respectfully disagree with your T, knowing that she knows you better than I, but knowing you know yourself best?

Thanks, AG. I disagreed too, but not so respectfully To be fair, T knows my tendency to ruminate, so she may have been trying to prevent that. It's so hard to re-initiate a difficult conversation, and then T's asking me to set it aside just adds more anxiety to the mix ("Dare I mention it again?")

until the water runs clear...

quote:

They are almost always due to my tendency to be hypervigilant and over-sensitive and are then further fueled by inadequate communication on my part. On the odd occasion they are a result of T's lack of perception or understanding of a certain issue, though the catalyst for that is always my lack of transparency in the first place.

Monte, thank you so much for your reply (I read through it quickly and will try to memorize it,in case you decide to take it down). The quote above states exactly what goes on in my therapy. I know that most of the communication problems are my fault, but I get exasperated with T anyway. I want her to have a Magic Translator/Mind-Reader device that would prevent these problems!

Everything you mention about learning in relationships is what I want and need from the T relationship. That is why this rupture (and hopefully, repair) is so important/difficult for me. I was thrown off by T's initial dismissal of my feelings, which caused the original rupture to explode into something much bigger.

Anyway, your reply is really helpful to me, and I suspect it will be helpful to others on the forum...So maybe you will leave it up for a bit?
Thanks, Monte!

RabbitEars

quote:

Originally posted by muff:
I'm wondering if you perceived silence as rejection when you were a wee one?

very much so, muff. Silence meant "you should not have spoken" and "we must never speak of this again". Silence delivers a powerful message.

Did you feel that message (silence/rejection) from your T after you expressed rage?

Can you see where I am coming from RE?

Silence doesn't always mean rejection. It can mean total acceptance of the way you feel.

quote:

Did you feel that message (silence/rejection) from your T after you expressed rage?

muff, the silence came before the rage

Then the rage was met with calm (which REALLY enraged me, as I took that to mean T didn't care that I was so angry; T didn't take me seriously)

Then further rage (from me) was--how shall I say it? "reflected back to me" by T? Despite my rage, I'm generally a timid rabbit type, so having T show anger silenced me pretty quickly.

as i said, a nasty fight. But T is going with your interpretation, muff, and I'm trying to learn from it too.
Thank you
RabbitEars

Silence can be permission to get angry.

quote:

until the water runs clear...

RT, I missed this. Keep talking until the water runs clear?

Thanks
RabbitEars

Hollow, thank you! (((Hollow)))

quote:

Has your T provided any belated empathy since then?

Yes, she has, but being a difficult sort of person, I perceive it as "fake" and "too little, too late". But I'm trying to get over it, and I guess I know now to just come to the forum for my warm fuzzies.

Thanks again, Hollow, for your kind response.

RabbitEars

Talk it out with your T until it is all sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by muff:
Silence can be permission to get angry.

It's like I come from another planet. I am learning a lot here on this new planet.


Thanks, muff

quote:

Originally posted by Monte:
Shucks thanks and no probs RE. I'm in a "It is safe to post" frame of mind just at present, so it should be there a while.

Monte

YAY!!!

It was hard lesson for me too RE.

Phew, yep! It might take a few cuppas to get through this one.

LOL.

Anyway, congrats on your rage (rupture) RE. It wasn't so bad after all was it?

You deserve two cuppa's.


"Therapy is about feeling that rage. It feels like it still threatens our survival before venting it."

Nope I don't think your T did screw up at all. She was steadfast and strong in accepting your rage.

Hmmm, this is another worry: Did she intend to cause the rage by her silence?

The rage wasn't pleasant, but it was real emotion, in "real time"--that's progress for me.

The buggers are a step ahead of us RE. She must have known you were ready to

You could ask yourself who put that rage there in the first place.

ooh, that makes me angrier!

There you go. The bottom line.


"T didn't move for the right reasons though, and waited patiently for me to feel safe enough to give up the anger." Blu.

Transference/projection is a part of therapy. Sometimes it is the only way rage can be vented.

.

((RE)) I don't have much to add but... I've had some long or long periods of short ruptures with my T. We pushed through... with T as gentle as possible - actually now she is more reassuring but for the first two years it was a a lot of patience on both our parts as we had to dismantle many of my defenses and cognitive distortions. My T used and uses that stuff as my "real work" she's able to thread it in, until it was used as a "positive" (hahahah never felt like that) contribution to my work. Eventually...

Thanks, cat. When I read your posts, I definitely pick up on the "fight" in you, and I share that trait (I "share" it with my T too ). I seem to want to do my therapy by myself, and after I've figured things out, only then will I let T in for comments & suggestions--heh.

My T seems to go "good cop, bad cop" on me, sometimes gentle, sometimes not so much... But I admit I've put up a formidable defense against the gentle approach for many years, so maybe it was time for her to get tough. Obviously she must have thought so.

I will have to contemplate how my rage-o-saurus act could become a positive...

Thanks again, cat.
RabbitEars

quote:

Originally posted by muff:
Transference/projection is a part of therapy. Sometimes it is the only way rage can be vented.

I think this is right, muff. I fear it is! I don't want to go through another episode like this last one, but so far, transference has been the only way I've accessed feelings from the past in session. I think it's going to be a long trip.

RabbitEars