quote:

She told me that she thinks I am seeking her attention--that she is going to hold her boundaries more firm, and that she's going to turn it all around on me to re-parent myself.

Hi Holly... reading this makes me really angry with your T and also reinforces my feeling that she does not understand attachment injury in a patient. Of course you are seeking her attention, that is what you are supposed to do for awhile. She has become internalized as your secure base and when things feel scary or you have anxiety or are feeling sad you turn towards her for comfort. There is a psychological name for what you are doing called "proximity seeking". It's part of attachment behavior. Unless you are really breaking and violating boundaries, then her making her boundaries more firm is just a punitive action which is going to first make you ashamed you reached out for her and her inconsistency is going to shake your trust in her. As for you re-parenting yourself, well if you could do that then why would you even need her? Would you tell a 5 year old to go parent themselves? Would that make any sense?

Her rejecting your need for reassurance and connection is just re-enacting the behaviors you most likely experienced as a child which caused your issues in the first place. I know it's difficult and sometimes may be scary for a T to have a client become attached to them but she needs to get some supervision on this because what she is doing is not going to help you heal from attachment injury and it's not building the trust and safety and stability you need to be able to talk about and work on healing the trauma.

Holly, you may have told us but... how old is your T? How long is she in practice and how long have you known her?

I'm really sorry she hurt you tonight and that you are feeling so awful. Maybe you could retreat into your left brain and do some attachment research that you can print out and bring to her for the next session. Maybe it would help with the pain for now.

I hope things get better for you. You are in my thoughts.

TN

Hugs to you Hollywood - I know you are suffering a lot right now.

True North - you have such a gift for explaining things. That has really helped me also by reading your post. Thanks for that.

Hollywood - Hope you find some resolution soon. Remember to slow everything down, breathe, don't make big decisions and just sit with the feelings. This has helped me a lot lately and I haven't been reacting as much.

SD... glad I could be of any help. I know you are struggling in the T relationship these days and I hope things work out for you.

TN

((TN))

So much to think about in what you wrote. You definitely have a way with words and helping me to understand things so much better than I ever could on my own.

My heart feels broken tonight. I feel quite overwhelmed with all that has happened and dis-associative. I'll be back, though, to answer your questions.

I am very angry at my T right now too. Why would she hurt me like she has?

--Hollywood

((SD)) Your hugs always make me feel better.

Thanks for your support, too, love!

Hollywood

You need a housekeeping session - where you and T renegotiate your relationship. Can you work out exactly what you want from her? And then tell her. If you KNOW that her answer is going to be NO all the time - honestly I just can't see how you are going to get along with her for the long term.

She sounds too inexperienced for me! Hey I have learnt from that the Hard way. You need more from her.

I told my T that I need tiny amounts of regular and boringly consistent contact from her between sessions. If I don't have that now - I am not feeling a connection as it feels 1 sided - in the future when I am attached to her - that tiny amount of contact will make me feel that she is there and listening. I said if I dont get that I am going to get all BPD desperate and ranty and crazy on her because I dont have object permanence and (thanks to True North's post earlier ) I told her that I will be proximity seeking all the time.

I don't know Hollywood - your T is sounding more and more harsh to me. Can you go T shopping and see if you gel with another one.

SD

quote:

Friday is a few days away, but as of now--I can't do this anymore. I will walk away. In that short period of time I have learned to love that little "freckled faced girl"---and the fact that someone is hurting her again makes me realize that I need to protect her--keep her safe. T treats her just like mom did--emotionally cold and distant.

Hollywood, your story is also my story. I took a risk and shared some deep hurts and it didn't turn out well with T. She couldn't or wouldn't comfort me and yes it was just like my cold and distant mom. I tossed and turned all night that night and have decided that I deserve better therapy. My concerns with her connection with me has been going on for months, since I first started with her. Most of the time I feel much worse after therapy and it takes me days to get back on my feet. I did talk to her one time about these feelings and she became defensive and nothing changed. This is not productive and it is time for a change. Thank you Hollywood for posting this. You helped me. I am going to find a new T.

Hello Hollywood
I want to send you a hug first off. It sounds like your t is not able to give you what you need right now and does'nt seem to have explained why she is taking this frankly tough approach with you. For example, T and I have slowed off the emotional/feelings stuff right now, but she didn't do it harshly or without talking about it/through it with me first. I was simply being flooded with feelings because they are a new language/thing for me and she wants to help me have some feelings building blocks first and go slowly therefore without being swamped all the time by things I don't know or have experience of. It concerns me when I read of t's not explaining things or discussing them with clients/patients. Your T sounds harsh in that you don't mention she has explained herself at all, t is always explaining things, talking to me about what approach to take in a certain way. Can you ask t to explain herself ? If she won't or you are not happy with her answers maybe a different approach would work better for you.
In the meantime, thinking of you
JMBx

HI there Hollywood,

I'm sorry you are in so much pain. It hurts me to hear what your T said to you because if my T said that to me, it would devastate me. So, I can only imagine how painful all of this is for you.

I had some issues with my T re: attachment but he would never had said anything like what your T is saying to you. He and I were able to work it all out but I'm not sure your T really understands or is willing to try to understand her part in all of this. From her point of view, the issues are with you and you alone. So, what I'm trying to say is I don't know how receptive she is going to be even if you do try to talk to her about it all.

Have you thought about just consulting with someone who specializes in trauma just to get a feel for what the heck is going on? I completely agree with you that she is pouring salt in your wounds. You were pushed away in childhood and now you are coming back, trying to get close to T and she is pushing you away again.

I went to a T who became a T later in life also after having had a career in banking. She was nice but she also had a lot of baggage. It took her so long to get straightened out that she moved too fast for me because I don't think she believed in wasting time. Anyway, so I am a big believer in T's with lots of experience. The young and/or inexperienced ones might be fine for simple problems but as the problems get more complex, I'm not so sure.

In any event, I hate to see you in so much pain and I don't think you should have to put up with it. (big brave words coming from little me!) It's your therapy afterall. At least try to consider going on a consult?

xoxo

Liese

quote:

She said "you need to not depend on me, and learn to depend on you!" "You need to be your own "T"! How can I be my own "her?" She left me confused with all of this?

Holly I am so so sorry she said those inappropriate things to you. She is re-enacting your childhood pain that needs to be grieved and I don't know of any medication that can wipe out grief or I would have taken it after my T abandoned me last year. This is something that needs to be felt and worked through with a T who is kind, reassuring and suportive and who offers connection and allows some level of dependency. Otherwise it will just cause you more pain on top of what you are dealing with. What skills is she talking about? Is she a DBT T??

I don't know of anyone who only uses a DBT T to recover from childhood trauma and attachment wounds. If it was just a matter of skills you could read a book and check off the skill list of stuff to do and be cured. Does not work that way. You were injured interpersonally and relationally and so those wounds need to be repaired in a relationship with a T who allows this to happen and who is aware of how this all works psychodynamically. She needs to be your corrective emotional experience. It is through the EXPERIENCING of the feelings and longings that come with an intimate psychodynamic relationship that fosters healing. Not a T who says you need to go do skills and heal yourself. That makes me SO mad at her.

Holly, I know you feel attached to her and it seems that you cannot live without her but you can. I suggest you lay all your attachment needs on the table and if she cannot work like that or has no clue about it then I would say you should at least consult with another T who is trained psychodynamically or psychoanalytically. Someone who has experience in at least object relations theory if not attachment theory and who works with trauma. I can see that your T is not experienced enough and is threatened by your "dependency" on her. I imagine you are really not that dependent you just need to keep and develop that connection to her and when you are scared or upset you want to be close to her. That is SO normal. It actually means you are healthy enough to form an attachment. She should be thrilled instead of backing away and that shows her inexperience in this kind of work.

I hope you can have an honest discussion with her on Friday and if not, I would suggest that you do a consult with another T to decide if you should stay or go. I'm afraid she will only end up hurting you further.

Hugs
TN

Hugs to all that have reached out to me during this time. It means a lot to me that I can come here and write out my feelings. Wow, I don't think I have ever been hit so hard over the head--I woke up and my mind felt like it was swimming in this grief; almost drowning--I'm functioning-have the ability to appear normal on the outside, but my brain is doing that shut down mode thing where feelings have been turned off for the time being. I think it's for survival. It's almost as if I can feel a disconnection between my mind and my body. I'm walking, talking, acting normal...but in reality I am focusing inward and my brain is trying to sort out all of this. (I need to respond in more depth and I will be back in a little while to do that.) I just really wanted to let you all know that it's the support here that's keeping me grounded right now. I can't even express my gratitude.

Love you all.

(Broken Hollywood)

((((BROKEN HOLLYWOOD))))

Love the blend, btw. Glad you at least didn't drop the Hollywood. I feel much like you describe very often so I can relate, unfortunately for both of us.

I don't need a personal reply. I don't want to be pushy but I'm going to be anyway. What I would love is to hear that you've seriously considered a consult. You don't have to leave her. Just go talk to someone else who is trained in the field to see if she is doing the right thing by you or not.

xoxo

Liese

Hi Hollywood,
I feel so bad for the pain that you are going through right now. I haven't taken very many risks with attaching or admitting to wanting to feel close to my T, but if I had, and I heard what you heard from your T, I'd feel devastated. I'm glad that there are so many people on this forum who know what to tell you and have experience with these situations. All I know is that I'm pretty angry with your T right now. That may not help much, but I also hope that someone can help you feel better soon, whether it's your friends here, or a consult, or even your T. Good luck.
Quell

So, I am hearing from you all that a consultation with another therapist is in order? Wow, I never imagined it would come to this. I got swept in over my head with T--let her into my heart, and now it's come to the point where I feel like she can no longer help me in the way that I need to be helped. At this time, I feel almost terrified to see another T. I am scared to allow myself to get close to anyone. It's opened such a deep wound, and I have been feeling the pains I felt so long ago in regards to my teacher that I was attached to and lost. I value all of your advice, and when post after post tells me to do a consult...I better get my butt into a consult then. ONE thing I have gotten in therapy thus far (and I guess I can look back on it with a hint of success is that I have connected with that young girl inside of me. She was strong. She hung tight through out all of those years of hell, and today I am hanging tight for her).

You are all very wise, and it's in my best interest to take the advice.

LOVE and HUGS.

I'm off to see P. Not looking forward to it, but it's gotta be done. Wish me luck.

AND I am on the verge of ripping T a new one through an email or phone call. Many of you have stated your anger towards my T, and the anger inside of me keeps bubbling more and more. How can she do this to me? I can guarantee before this day is over that T and I are going to have a little conversation....and I'm not going to let myself back down.

Awww, Hollywood, I'm glad you are standing up for yourself or at least feeling entitled to. But I also hope I didn't give you really bad advice. The good thing about the consult is that T doesn't have to know about it unless you want to tell her and it may give you an idea as to whether or not she knows what she is doing or is hurting you.

My "don't rock the boat" side is saying, oh, hold off blasting T until you go to the consult. But that's just me. The only one on the forum who hasn't slammed a door. I'm very uncomfortable around anger. So you do what you want to do.

The long and the short of it is that you don't feel like you are getting what you need from her. Lots of people here go twice a week and need that level of support and also need support in between sessions. These issues that we are dealing with are HUGE. I don't see anything wrong with that, in my very biased opinion. I don't know why you aren't entitled to that type of support as well.

You sound all fired up. Hope you are doing okay.

xoxo

Love,

Liese

Hey Hollywood,

Let us know if you contact T. I know you probably have a lot to think about.

xoxo

Liese

I posted the letter here.. BUT, I need to take it down. Freaking out she will find it. Right now I am working through processing everything and feeling very overwhelmed with feelings, thoughts, etc.

Thanks all for being there for me.

Hollywood,

That sounds really direct and honest. Did you email it?

xoxo

Liese

I did! I'm scared but that little girl needed me to stand up for her and protect her!

Hi Hollywood
Wow, that's a brave and powerful letter/message to t, I'm glad that you stood up for the little girl
JMB

Hollywood - what is your plan of attack now? Does it depend on how T answers your email? She might use her stock standard answer....... I really think you should find an alternative and test the waters with someone else or are you going to give T another chance to grow some compassion??

Keep talking to us about it.

HW,

I love that you stood up for that little girl. And I agree with SomeDays about thinking about what's going to happen after you hear from her ... depending upon which way she goes.

xoxo

Liese

I woke up this morning in panic over the email I sent to T. I don't know what to expect, am a little worried about her response, BUT at the same time I feel relieved to have gotten my feelings out. She hurt me. I think it's only fair that she knows it, and she is told why.

I appreciate you all for being so supportive during this time. I know sticking up for myself was brave. I'm proud of myself, and only hope that I can continue to fight for what I need.

Am waiting on a reply, which I may never get. I am also exploring my options.

Will keep you all updated.

Love, Hollywood

Hi Hollywood,

I hadn't commented on this post up till now, because I am very new to the ways of Ts and to being in therapy compared to many on this board and felt inadequate to comment. I only know that if I were you I would be feeling angry and very hurt and the possibility that my T could act in this way is scary. I haven't yet tested her yet with the full force of my attachment, so I don't know for certain if she could handle it or not. I can imagine the pain of rejection if she couldn't, though, and I feel really bad for you.

Anyway, the reason I am coming out of the woodwork and commenting now is because I wanted to compliment you on your email. I think you articulated things very well and hit just the right note of honest vulnerability combined with dignified self respect. You didn't hand over all your power to T and are taking full charge of protecting your little girl and finding her the help she needs (whether that is through repairing things with this T or finding a more competent one).

Kudos to you and good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by heldincompassion:
You didn't hand over all your power to T and are taking full charge of protecting your little girl and finding her the help she needs (whether that is through repairing things with this T or finding a more competent one).

HIC--This was definitely my maternal instinct coming into play for that little girl. This is the first time EVER that I felt so strongly about protecting her. Up until now, I have despised that little girl inside of me. I couldn't look at her, couldn't connect. I must admit that my current T helped me to do this and that is something that I will be forever grateful towards her for, even though she makes me so incredibly mad right now. I never want that poor little girl to experience sadness and pain like that again. If it is my job to re- parent here, then I am going to protect her.

Thanks for the warm wishes.

--Hollywood

Did you change your name to unbroken? I love that! You have given me inspiration and courage. Even if your t can't give you what you need, you stood up for uourself and you Deserve to get your needs met! (trying. To tell myself the Same thing!)

I'm all over the place with this name change, but Holly just wasn't fitting me. SO, I decided because I am partial to Broken--it's where I started, and now that I have grown and am no longer Broken that I will be Unbroken. Stronger. Reinforces powerful affirmations for me and that little girl inside. I'm going to get through this. I am going to turn this thing around.

I am proud of me for fighting for what I need and want. T and I chatted on the phone this morning very briefly. We are planning on meeting on Friday, and we will see how things go. I realized that there is no need to suffer, she can't make me feel so bad. Therapy is supposed to feel good and we are either going to work this out, or I am going to go find someone else who can be a positive impact on my life.

I still have lots to process before the session on Friday. Thanks for hangin' in there with me!

Unbroken!

quote:

Therapy is supposed to feel good and we are either going to work this out, or I am going to go find someone else who can be a positive impact on my life.

Unbroken,

I am VERY glad that you are talking to your T about how your feeling and standing up for yourself. But I had to comment on the above quote. Therapy should most certainly have a positive impact on your life over time. But there is no way in the world I would ever say that therapy is supposed to feel good. Therapy is usually messy, chaotic and painful. We go to therapy to look at ourselves and often we are looking at things that we have avoided for a long time. For very good reason.

So especially in the beginning, because you are actually letting long buried stuff out, things actually get MORE painful. There's a reason we avoid our stuff, it's painful. Even when everyone is doing everything right, therapy can still be painful to the point of breaking. I once asked my therapist that, why was it so painful when no one is doing anything wrong? (about my being in pain over the boundaries). And he told me that a lot of this stuff is tough enough to learn as a child, but as an adult it can be quite difficult.

It may be that you need a new therapist or you may find that you can continue to work with your present one. I just would advise against making therapy feeling good as a criteria because I don't think it's a realistic goal.

AG

quote:

SO, I decided because I am partial to Broken--it's where I started, and now that I have grown and am no longer Broken that I will be Unbroken. Stronger. Reinforces powerful affirmations for me and that little girl inside. I'm going to get through this. I am going to turn this thing around.

I am proud of me for fighting for what I need and want.

I am proud of you too. And, as AG said, it was no picnic getting to the point you are at now but it might have been worth the pain?

How did the conversation go this morning?

xoxo

Liese

AG & Liese,

I think I might have worded that wrong when I was saying that it was supposed to feel good. I completely understand what you are both saying, so thanks for pointing that out to me. It's not going to feel good when it's delving into the deepest core issues. I think when I was referring to good was the relationship that I have with T should at least feel safe, secure, and accepting. If it's not those things then I need to reassess things.

The phone call this morning started off a little cold on my part. She asked "how are you?" and I was like "hanging in there." She wanted to see if I was coming back and let me know that this is the hardest part where a lot of people decide to leave therapy. We are delving into some deep processing now, and she said that she'd understand if it was too much for me, if I needed a break, or if I wanted to end things with her. She said that if we decide to continue that she has to hold boundaries firm because it's what is best and safe for me. It's not about her. It's about me. She also said that she is trying to help me by being the supportive therapist that is not angry or defensive with the feelings that I have. She talked about skills and how they will be important in our work together. She is a psychodynamic T with training in DBT. She's probably the most specialized DBT therapist in the area and she told me that she is very much familiar with Borderline Personality Disorder.
She gave me the option to think things through, and wanted to really have our session this Friday to talk about things. I agreed to see her. I want things to work out with her because I do have faith and trust in her. I just sometimes bump up against some boundaries that sends shooting pain through my heart!

SO, this is where it is at right now. We are meeting to talk. I will process my feelings after that session, and will go into the following session with a final decision on where we go from here.

One thing in particular stuck out from our conversation. I said I just want you to understand that this hurts, and the way she said "I know it does" REALLY was meaningful and I could tell that she really does understand the pain. I just think she's really really firm on the boundaries.

I still am processing all of this. It's going to take some time to really look at this and look at myself. But, for some "strange" reason, through all of this, I am a little bit stronger.

HUGS!

--Unbroken

Unbroken

So glad you had a good conversation with T and she sounded genuine. Also glad that you are going to talk to her on Friday. I'm just throwing this out there to you or to anyone who wants to answer. I guess I just don't know why she would need to have such tight boundaries simply because of your diagnosis. What about your needs? Does that mean they are not legitimate and shouldn't be met by a therapist? Should someone with the BPD diagnosis not be given 2 sessions a week? Should someone with that diagnosis not be encouraged to have in between session contact, - although I don't know if she tolerates it from others, but just assuming that she's holding these tight boundaries for that reason? Haven't they pretty much decided that BPD is an attachment disorder? I'm just very confused.

xoxo

Liese

hmm, just saw this thread for first time rite now cause ive been avoiding the forum, as ive not been in good spot to read or post. (sorry, feels like i have to explain myself cuz theres so many hurt feelings here lately apparently). anyway, i hate to discourage you if you really want to keep trying with this T cuz its your call and all. but shoot, i just dont see her as a good match for BPD or attachment issues at all. too tight for me, at least. sounds like a painful predicament to be in. if you stay, this kind of thing is bound to keep coming up and ouch, i just want to send you running away to someone more gentle and flexible. but of course thats not without some pain too. but i think the pain staying could last much longer. yet if you stay i wouldnt blame ya. cuz its so hard to tear away. hope you dont mind me posting. hugs to you, dear.

Hi Friend who is not broken,
I've been offline a bit but am glad I came back in time to see your post. I wish that you were not having to go through this. I agree 100% with TN and I hope that you will look in to a consult. I do DBT and it's helped a lot but that doesn't take away the need for real emotional connection and healing. I can feel your pain and wish that you didn't have it. Love, ND

I am open and willing to hear any advice on this because at the moment I am still processing and trying to determine what exactly I am going to do for the long haul. I go back and forth between wanting to stay and wanting to go. It's going to take some serious thought and a good heart to heart with my T to decide where exactly we go from here. The one thing that I am at peace with is that whatever happens, I am going to be okay. I have found the strength to make it through.

Love, Unbroken

((((UNBROKEN))))

i hope you don't feel too pressured by all of us that you won't feel comfortable to come to us for support. I know how hard it is when you are so attached to your T. People around here were seeing red flags with my T but I was so attached to him I couldn't leave. It turned out that they were right and he realized that he was being rigid and we were in an enactment. He said he wasn't being flexible enough and just kind of applying a one size fits all rule to me and it wasn't meeting my needs. And, so things turned out for the best. But, no wonder people leave therapy if she says that kind of stuff to everyone. I just don't think therapy has to be that hard. But what the heck do I know. I make my own stuff up. I'm so glad you feel okay and you found the strength to make it through. That's the most important thing.

xoxo

Love,

Liese

hey Unbrokes.

I have just been thru a huge rupture with T. I was so angry for 2 weeks and withdrew from everyone so I could process. eventually I told T that I was angry with her. She asked me to come and see her so we could repair our relationship. I said I hated her, felt unsafe and never wanted to see her. But I went. It was one of the hardest things I did. I had a written list of my issues - T had let me down a lot (she admitted some of these) and had been inconsistent (admitted this) and had indirectly made me feel unsafe and insecure. We discussed it together because it is OUR relationship. T said she has clients like me - who terminated immediately and don't go back, others that send abusive, angry emails and don't go back - but ideally she wants clients to meet and discuss and renegotiate. And hope that both people do enough to repair.

You have a strong attachment to your T - but this current episode is downward point in your cycle - you have so much basis and depth to your relationship with her. You have a good strong base to work with.

I think you seeing and discussing this with her will help you work out what you want and whether T is right for you. Her strict boundaries and rules might be what you NEED - but not what you WANT. You will know tomorrow - when you see her and how you feel - trust your instincts.

Here for you when you need me.
SD

Hey xoxo,

Thanks for offering a different perspective! Always nice to hear.

xoxo

Liese

IAm so sorry you are sad but know exactyly how you feel. A few weeks ago my therapist told me she wasn't going to respond to my emails and this week took away her hugs. I am devastated. I feel my connections are severed. I feel more distant and don't know how to open up feeling like this. I have nothing to help me hold onto her. She says these things are not productive right now because of what we are playing out and the extreme transference that is going on. I too feel broken in a way I have never experienced. What is the use ot that???