(((((((((Incognito)))))))))

I'm so sorry, I've gone through exactly what you're describing and know how horrible it can be. But you're not crazy, it's just that these kinds of boundary issues of scheduling appointments provide really strong triggers for some really intense primitive reactions.

I know for me part of the struggle was that there was no such thing as "enough" time with my therapist. He has a very full schedule (he's actually not accepting new patients at this time) and in the past it has been diffcult always scheduling a weekly appt let alone more often than that and I have NEVER had a regular set appt with him (although we do tend to have 8:30 appts on either Mon or Tues but there's no guarentee). Add to that the fact that when I first broached going to see him when my last T retired, both my T and my husband were against the idea. So scheduling has always been difficult.

I think the problem is that we are so drawn to them because of the support we get from them but at the same time, actually asking for what we need or believing we're important enough to deserve their time is not only difficult to believe but depending on how our needs and feelings were treated when we were kids, can feel downright dangerous.

The other part of this problem is that when we're kids we aren't so supposed to have to work hard to make our needs known. Part of the attunement of our attachment figure is supposed to be that they are paying such close attention that THEY identify our needs and fulfill them without our having to ask. This is actually an important part of how we learn to identify and make our needs known. When we didn't get that, I think on some level we have this belief that if we have to ask for what we need, then the other person doesn't really love us. So it may be that what you're hearing internally is that if your T really cared and really wanted you, then he would know how much you wanted the appt and he would urge you to come.

But here's the problem (you knew there would be one, didn't you? ) often when these kinds of injuries occured, boundaries were non-existant and/or modeled very poorly, so part of the corrective emotional experience you have with your T is well modeled boundaries. And that means that they will respect your choices, whatever they are, to come or not come. Your T is providing the space in which all your turmoil about coming or not coming and all your doubts are being wanted or not wanted can come out. How else can you experience being you within your own boundaries and being able to decide what YOU want to do. Not your T, not your husband, not your kids, not your best friend, but you. When you're never been giving those choices, they can feel very scary and confusing ESPECIALLLY if retaining the integrity of your own boundaries got you punished as a child.

I can tell by how your talking about your Ts reactions that he really cares about you and isn't feeling so much of what you're worried about. From your point of view, you've had a really rough week (and you did, being a single mom with three kids on top of recent surgery is DEFINITELY well within my defintion of a rough week) and that means you need MORE connection with your T because you need more help regulating your emotions and you need the support. From his viewpoint, it was more than likely that he thought, wow, you're really overloaded and not feeling well physically so having one less appt to go to would probably be helpful this week.

I had a total freak out once with my T because I had asked if I could correct his name on his Iphone (whoever set up his email account misspelled his last name, I'm a technical writer and it DRIVES ME BONKERS!). He emailed me back and told me that he appreciated me pointing it out but he would rather correct it himself and if that felt creepy we could discuss it the next day (I had an appt). I saw the word "creepy" and although I knew he was using the word in reference to his actions, I went into total overdrive convinced that he thought I was behaving in a really creepy manner and that I had really violated a boundary and that the relationship was at risk. So I put in an emergency call. and when I say overdrive, I was sobbing and hyperventilating. The first few minutes of the phone call when he called back consisted of him telling me to breathe. But he told me something really important that has stuck with me ever since. Other people's boundaries are just that, theirs, and say so much more about them than they do about us. The truth is that when another person sets a boundary with us, their reasons can be about so MANY things but we go straight to there being about us.

But you're doing the right thing talking to your T about how you're feeling so you can hear what his reasons are and he can reassure you that your fears about how he is feeling aren't true. I'm sorry, I do know how painful and confusing this can feel, but I think it's really important and you're working really hard by staying with the feelings and paying attention to what's going on despite how crazy making it feels. I think an important part of your healing will be to just learn to listen to yourself and make the appts you want to and experience that what you want is OK and doesn't get you into trouble. That's what eventually made it easier for me (full disclosure: I can still struggle with how often to make appts especially not that we've started to discuss terminating.)

AG

Around the holidays till the middle of January I have a really tough time, and before this past season started I had asked my T if we could do two sessions a week so I could get through that time period easier and he said sure. And then we only had one week (the last week) where we had two sessions! It was disappointing. I felt like he forgot and then I didn't want to be a pest (because like you fear I thought maybe he didn't want to do two a week after all). This year after Halloween I'm going to write out two dates a week and schedule them all at once. Then he'll expect me to be there and I won't feel like a burden.

If it's up to you to schedule the second session when you need it, schedule it and don't worry what he thinks. He's there for you, not the other way around!

quote:

I think on some level we have this belief that if we have to ask for what we need, then the other person doesn't really love us.

Hi Incognito,
I don't know if we have ever spoken before, but I too can relate to this. AG has wonderful insights. The only thing that I could add- that worked for me, is that I sort of... staked out my time. Monday at 5 was always my time unless I changed it. I don't have young kids though, so It might be harder for you.

(((Incognito))),

I'll apologize ahead of time for the fact that this is really long, but I'm a long-winded gal. We haven't officially "met", so hi! I posted something last night, but decided it wasn't what I really wanted it to be, so I'm going to try again. I feel your pain and want you to know that you are not alone in the "craziness" you feel right now. I don't have an "answer" for you, but I do have my own perspective on what you're going through. I also want to say that I agree with everything that AG said. She always has an amazing way of looking at things and putting it into perspective in a way I just don't see it on my own!

Fist of all, I don't know the specifics of your relationship with your T, but based on my own feelings for mine, and the impression I have that most of the members on the boards here also have feelings for theirs, I am going to assume that you do, too. I am a woman and so is my T, so my feelings are not romantic, and neither were the feelings for the male Physical Therapist (PT) that I will refer to in the rest of my post. Just strong, intense feelings that are difficult to really identify.

I had a doctor/patient relationship with this PT for several months while he was treating me in physical therapy. Although interactions between a PT/patient and a T/patient are very different, I developed a transference with the PT all the same. I had his email address and emailed him quite often about various things usually related to physical therapy, or a meditation he was working on completing and was asking me for feedback about--just harmless stuff. We actually became friends and the boundaries were not there like they are in psychotherapy (which they should be, but he is my neighbor, his wife and I are friends, and I see this guy at church). He was a really nice, friendly guy who was genuinely trying to help me with my chronic pain. He understands the mind/body connection and how our emotional/psychological stuff (past traumas, etc.) can really affect our health, and he was trying to help me through the things he was implementing with his patients. Anyway, I became emotionally attached to this guy without really realizing what was going on, or how deeply I was getting into it.

After I quit my physical therapy appointments with him I became really depressed and started emailing him with random questions about stuff that was kind of unimportant, but still had some pertinence to exercises, or even common interests we had like photography, or whatever I could think of to have some kind of contact with him about. After a while his answers were not what I was happy with. They were two sentences long, and I started reading things into them, like "I must not be worth his time if all he can give me is some two-sentence reply that doesn't even answer my question.", or, "He must not care about me because it doesn't even feel like he bothered to read the whole question." I started to feel slighted, rejected, not important enough, hurt, frustrated, confused, angry, etc. The problem wasn't so much that I was feeling these things, because feelings are legitimate, it was that I never bothered to ask him about what was going on. Instead, I let the feelings fester until they were really eating at me, and then I replied to one of his email responses one day and accused him of things, like not fully reading my questions, or trying to brush me off with "less-than" answers because my questions weren't important enough, and things like that. I started to create "drama" to express my hurt rather than give him the opportunity to clarify and explain things from his side, which really was unfair (to both of us). Things got progressively worse and I started to obsess about what was going on between us. I didn't understand why I even cared so much, either. Things really got worse to where my life was pretty much overwhelmed by my relationship with this guy and the emailing got more frequent and more uncomfortable and I would sit at the computer all day waiting for his response so I could email him back. He kept trying to help me see things and trying to help me work through stuff, but I was too far gone by that point. My "needs" within my relationship with him were out of the boundaries and unhealthy given the nature of the relationship. I finally started seeing how unhealthy I was and that this wasn't the first relationship in my life where I had been trying to get my needs met by professionals that were in some way or other "unavailable". It was a really painful realization to come to, but I was able to back away from the situation, apologize to this man, and ask for his forgiveness.

So now here I am with my T. I am in a better "place" with her than I was with the PT, but I still have my "needs". I don't have her email address, she doesn't live in my neighborhood, I'm not friends with her spouse, I don't see her at church, and she has great boundaries (and I am SO GLAD for all of these things--usually ). But I still have the same strong feelings, the wish to have her friendship, to connect with her on an emotional level, to have my needs met, etc. It's hard, and I have shed so many tears and been so very uncomfortable in my sessions with her because this time around I told her from the very time my feelings for her became apparent to me that I was attached to her. I'm still trying to get her to "get it", but I'm not going to give up. I have gotten to the point where this time around I have come to realize that the most important thing I can do for myself in this "relationship", and really, in ALL relationships, is to be open, honest, up front about what I am feeling. If I am feeling hurt, confused, frustrated, scared, rejected, frightened that I'll be abandoned if I share my feelings, etc.--I have to express those feelings, even if it scares me to death!!! I have to do it anyway. Being vulnerable to someone else is freaking scary!!! I run from it as much as possible. I'm always wanting to fight off my feelings by putting up a wall of anger and throwing my issues onto someone else by blaming them for the way I feel. I have come to realize I have to face myself and my issues if I want to grow, and being honest with myself and others is a huge first step in doing that.

I don't know if any of this is helpful in the least, Incognito. I just know that I feel your pain and "think" I understand where you are coming from, although I could be very far from where you really are, and if so, I apologize for my post. I know it's easier for someone to say that you need to tell your T what you're feeling (your confusion about his questioning your need for the second appointment, etc.) than it is to actually DO IT. In all honesty, I haven't done it myself yet, and I'm working so hard right now on psyching myself up for my appointment this coming Friday because that is when all hell will break loose and my T is going to get it ALL. I am so looking forward to the relief I will feel afterward, because I know the burden of the weight I've been packing around by keeping all the feelings and worries to myself all this time.

I know you feel "crazy" right now with the spiraling thoughts and that it wears you out. I have been literally exhausted for the past year from all of the anxiety that ruminating thoughts cause and the energy they consume. I realized that the drama I create through email and trying to control interactions with others rather that just getting to the heart of the matter and facing it head on, even if it hurts and scares me, is really what will ultimately help me feel better.

I hope you don't mind me posting this, but I found this from a post of yours a while back and wanted to include it here because I think it is so interesting sometimes (and also helpful) to see some insight we had earlier but have somehow forgotten: <<When I had been seeing my T for about 3 months, we had a conversation about whether it was helping and if I should quit (I didn't want to but I thought he wanted me to) and at one point I got so upset I left the room in tears and cried in the bathroom. I was so embarrassed I did not want to go back in but I had left my purse there. When I calmed down and returned he asked me if we could talk about what had been coming up for me and he asked if I had felt relief, I replied no I just felt rejected. He said he didn't want me to stop coming but he wanted me to know it was okay with him if I did. That was the first time I realized that he really didn't know how things felt for me if I didn't tell him. I think I react in my life like it is so obvious how I feel and think that others must know and therefore is someone is doing something that makes me feel rejected or ignored I assume that they know that it does that and that they are doing it on purpose so I withdraw from them. T is the first person who I could stick around long enough to realize he didn't know how I felt if I didn't verbalize it and he might not be doing the very thing I feared he was doing.>>

Anyway, a couple of questions for you to consider, and then I'll wrap up my novel:

Did you mention specifically to him about the fact that you feel confused about his feelings when he asks you things like "so do you want to meet on ..., or is ... a no-go"?
You also mentioned that near the end of the session you get the feeling that he doesn't want to hear any more and you get quiet. Does that always happen, or just at your last session? Did you tell him that you felt that he didn't want to hear any more? You really need to mention to him all of those thoughts you had, you know, the "spiraling" ones? These are real and genuine valid concerns, and I'm not saying you have the same issue as I do, because more than likely you don't, but I have had episodes during the last year where I go into obsessive periods where I am stuck in negative thought patterns and can't get my T out of my head, and I ruminate about her constantly and obsess about what she thinks about me and have thoughts similar to what you were describing. I'm now on medication to help with that because for me it was bordering on OCD (although not typical OCD). My T didn't think it was OCD because she sees it in terms of the usual type, but my MD saw it differently. Anyway, be open with your T. It's not just a trivial thing you're dealing with here, especially when it affects you to the point that you are spending your entire day on it, hours planning how to end your life, etc. This stuff is serious! Please, do what you need to to get yourself in a better place. I know it is hell and I hate to "see" you where you're at.

If you need to "talk", please don't hesitate to PM me. Take care of yourself, and let us know how you're doing! And again, I apologize if I'm way off here.

MTF

thanks everyone for your replies.

Debbye and helle, I am lucky enough to have a regularly scheduled session every week that I don't have to discuss and rarely changes. AG is right I don't feel like I deserve a second session so I have trouble booking it.

AG, I'm not sure how I can tell my T how I feel because I often don't know what is bothering me until after I leave or I think it shouldn't bother me so I won't let it and then fail miserably at that. That was what happened on Wednesday I knew when he said so Friday is a no-go that he probably meant it out of concern so I ignored it and just booked the appointment. Unfortunately later it spiralled out of control.

MTF, thanks for reminding me of my own words. I appreciate the understanding. The thing that happened that made me think I should stop talking does happen fairly regularly but I didn't realize until this session why I stop talking. My T oftens normalizes things for me, so after listening to me talk about my feelings or reactions he will often tell me that he thinks most people (with a difficult childhood etc.) feel that way. For a long time it was very helpful because I always feel I am overly sensitive or overreacting (because I was told I was over and over) but lately it seems to stop the conversation for me because I figure there is nothing to talk about if it is normal or it's not worth talking about anymore. I get stuck in my head.

Today I am grateful my husband came home and I feel physically better but when I think about T I'm paralyzed. I can't imagine going back into his office because I'm so ashamed. I'm afraid I've gone too far and he won't want to talk to me anymore. I'm trying to distract myself and not ruminate about it but it is so hard.

Incognito:

quote:

Originally posted by incognito:

MTF, thanks for reminding me of my own words. I appreciate the understanding. The thing that happened that made me think I should stop talking does happen fairly regularly but I didn't realize until this session why I stop talking. My T often normalizes things for me, so after listening to me talk about my feelings or reactions he will often tell me that he thinks most people (with a difficult childhood etc.) feel that way. For a long time it was very helpful because I always feel I am overly sensitive or overreacting (because I was told I was over and over) but lately it seems to stop the conversation for me because I figure there is nothing to talk about if it is normal or it's not worth talking about anymore. I get stuck in my head.

If it's normal or not worth talking about then why is it still bothering you? (This is what I would be asking your T.) I certainly think it's worth talking about, even if your T "normalizes" it. Why does it bother you in the first place? Why are you overly sensitive to it? (I know it's the "difficult childhood" and such, but I would want to find out how you can NOT be so sensitive to these things. Does he have any ideas or solutions to help you?) In my opinion, if these things are still leaving you "stuck in your head", they aren't minor things to just be normalized and dropped. They still need to be discussed and dealt with until you feel better about them. That's what you're in therapy for, isn't it? Just my two cents.

quote:

Today I am grateful my husband came home and I feel physically better but when I think about T I'm paralyzed. I can't imagine going back into his office because I'm so ashamed. I'm afraid I've gone too far and he won't want to talk to me anymore. I'm trying to distract myself and not ruminate about it but it is so hard.

I wish I could help you on this one, but you have to just face him and get it over with. Shame is a very paralyzing thing and it keeps us from growing and changing and experiencing joy. This is where you're going to just have to open up and be honest and real about your feelings. I know it's hard, but until you tell him about all the confusion, frustration, etc. and really get it all out, it's going to keep going around in your head. You have NOT gone too far. He WILL talk to you. He even said he hopes you will continue the discussion in person. And really, a face-to-face discussion is how the healing and help occurs in the most profound way. Hang in there! You can get through this!! I have, and I know you can, too! It's hard, but nothing of real value and worth in this life is obtained without hard work and lots of effort. Good luck!! Let us know how it goes.

(((Hugs)))

MTF