Way to go on bringing up the subject of your records! I hope she helped you to see that it was a valid concern.

I used to have the same experience (i.e. forgetting) when I first started my SRT although I generally don't forget anymore. I believe it's because as my activation has come down I'm more present and I can remember more.

One thing that really helped me with my current therapist (she doesn't do SRT but uses some body-based techniques) is that I made a point of asking her--several times at the beginning--to interrupt me during the session and have me check in to my body and to bring awareness to the momemt. I do this all the time with my clients so I wanted it with my own therapy.(I wrote a bit about it here: Counseling and Resistance)

This really helps as it gives me pause to reflect. I also happen to believe that it's an effective way to change emotional patterns.

That's great that you process after the session. I should do that too. I imagine it would reinforce whatever I got from it.

You had asked about processing ideas. I imagine if you get your body into a more relaxed state immediately after your session like with a hot bath, it would help you to process deeper. I'd try to get into the "feeling state" of the session (i.e. shifting into right brain).

Take care,
Shrinklady
P.S. I have a Gund teddy bear and he now has a family!

What is SRT? why is a 'shrink' ging to a 'shrink? How long do you expect to go?

more later... just got back from holidays...

dude

Hey welcome back Dude. Well yes, you bet I go to therapy. I'm trying to make it a big point on the site...everybody has their stuff and that includes me.

I feel every therapist should go to therapy. If they really believe in the power of it, I can't see why they wouldn't.

And, for me personally I know that one of the fastest ways to have greater consciousness, is through an experience with another person. I feel so much more conscious these days compared to even a couple years ago. I just want more of it.

I believe, my nervous system is benefiting from the nervous system of my therapist. I wrote a bit about it in the Holistic Psychoherapy and Neurobiology. This is also why you need a grounded therapist.

So this is one of the major reasons I go...I become more conscious and I can manage my activation better.

Thanks for asking aobut SRT. Self-Regulation Therapy is a body-based therapy. So as I was saying earlier, my T will have me pause and check into my body sensations. Can't say enough about it and I love to talk about.

Take care,

Shrinklady

Thanks for the 'welcome back'. It was a great holiday for the most part... the weather got a bit crapy up north though. We did visit an old friend on our way back 'south'. And, the 'host' disclosed her dx! This friend wanted to meet one of us insiders so we had a 'volunteer' named Samy (a teen girl). Later, when we were all talking (host, friend and hubbie) I came out very briefly, and amazingly of all... she noticed it wasn't 'host' talking ! That was very insightful of her as I was very brief. I always find that interesting... when people finally realize there is a 'we' that they pick up quickly who is who. Or more... who ISNT who. Some can do this easier than others.

I always find it interesting that T's have their own T. I liken it to a mechanic having his own mechanic!

One last thought for now... our 'host' is thinking of going back to school to get a Masters in Counselling Psychology. Interesting... she wants to work with young kids. If anyone has any info. on the reputation of different universities they can PM me (HA! did anyone figure out how to do this?) Just kidding... comment away! Any help is appreciated!

More later.

dude

I"mi not clear what you mean by a 'greater consciousness' maybe a greater 'conscience' though!! (hehe...) I just read a bit about SRT 9though with our 4 girls and a friend over of their's it's hard to concentrate! I can't WAIT until school is back for them!) And found it interesting. However, the last time i did some 'relaxing - see how your body is feeling - type - stuff' with my T I flipped out! I mean, if my 'fight' is gone, what do I have left?

Dude

B.W. - I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my T having my previous records! Why did she need them? Also, 'how do you process therapy sessions' has got me thinking ... I don't know if I DO this exactly (as in writing things down) but it's a good idea!

Cheers,
Dude

Hi Dude, "try it you'll like it" ...working with fight energy is awesome for reducing your activation

I've had heard that comment before...that "I'll lose my anger". In fact, I addressed it in the manual I'm writing for squeeze balls.

But channeling fight energy out of your body won't take away your anger but the anger will be more manageable. Over time, it'll actually help to make you more assertive. And, you'll think clearer.

Like, have you ever been really mad about something and later felt that was too much energy for it? Working somatically with fight, takes the edge off it.

When I tell clients that I used to have an anger problem they are so shocked. And I understand it because I don't look like I would. But, when there's too much trauma in the nervous system and you start to come out of freeze, anger or flight is what's going to happen.

tata,
Shrinklady
P.S. Consciousness is very hard to describe...like trying to describe floating in water if you've never done it before. But here's my latest on it: A higher state of consciousness

""As I have become less dissociative, I have more moments of being "in my body".

What an interesting thing to say! Especially for us here with DID :P

I believe I got to this site from your squeeze ball my T had (which I used briefly) and a pin or something she had ... with the reptile on it.

I'm not keen on 'squeeze balls' I'd rather plow someone in the face :P ok... actually I'm rather gentle. Still trying to figure out the 'let go of anger' thing here. I still think that anger keeps me going, and lack of anger will have a negative effect on me.

Did I tell you I'm thinking of going on a 'field trip' with my T to a bee farm? Don't have the details yet but I'll keep y'all posted.

Dude

Dude:

I guess CG is a field trip kinda therapist....we too, have been on many field trips (so to speak) over the years.....I found them quite beneficial.....

Deb

Butterfly Warrior & Shrinklady:

I too have a "stuffie"....Buddy is his name and he has a velcro opening where I have stored some of my mothers cremains (ashes)....Sorry if that sounds gross.....Since I had never quite bonded/connected with my mother while she was alive, I thought this might be a way of finding a spiritual(or whatever term may apply here) connection through placing her in my teddy that accompany's and comforts me in those moments that I am in need of comfort, support or simply someone to tell my troubles to....He/She/They listens really well, never interupts and seems to love me unconditionally (LOL).....and have never betrayed me, not even once......

Still recovering from my visit to New York....
Deb
ps...Have found my "Waking the Tiger" book...and have started reading the intro....

Deb-
If you still get messages from here... thanks for sharing this message about your stuffie and your mom's ashes... its not gross, it's what helps you.

Glad you found your book waking the tiger.. I should ask Adrine how she likes the book now if she has gotten further along in it.

BW

Dude-

So funny you find it funny about T with T because I think any healthy therapist SHOULD have therapy if not more than once in their life. Many accredited programs require that you get persona therapy before graduating!! I have encountered this requirement in another programs I have been thinking of applying to! I know that many therapist I have worked with or around in terms of as my professors or mentors have all gone through or currently have therapy as a means of personal growth. It's a relief to me that they do go.. well those that go.. .because.. everyone is human... and even knowing so much about human behavior... doesn't mean you can recognize your own behaviors or even know how to address them.. with yourself...

I don't know..... It's logical to me but I guess some people find it quite shocking too...

I had one therapist that told me she is a real believer in therapy. She was my therapist and i think she read my mind because I did see her as kinda like... really stable.. like.. yeah right.. had to be short term therapy... right after i thoight that.. she added.. both long term and short term therapy.... lol.... such is life... I was a little surprised.... I had to think about why i felt that way and why was it significant.... whatever the case, I was glad she told me... it didn't make me feel so bad about the fact that I had been seeing her for like 4 years and was possibly going to continue therapy after graduation at the time.. (which I did.. and still am... ).

Okay.. random... if i don't make sense.... i blame it on my pain meds.. lol.

Hi everyone,

Nice to see you back Butterfly Warrior.

Just to add my thoughts to this discussion...one of the things I'm trying to raise awareness about how we perceive therapy is that there is a more effective way to change our behaviours than is traditionally thought and it has enormous benefits beyond what people normally go to therapy for e.g. anxiety and depression. But it's hard to describe briefly in words...

I suspect many people think of going to therapy this way: they will discuss their problems and then the therapist will make suggestions about what to do to change them. Then they will have to do their darndest to change the offensive behaviour with the support of a therapist--which is often helpful.

This certainly is a part of therapy. And, the benefit I see with this aspect of therapy is that you can become more aware of problems areas. However, changing those behaviours...in a way that's integrated and embodied is a different matter.

Because this kind of thinking suggests that once I become aware (with or without the therapist's help) if I read a lot of books and really understand what healthy behaviours look like, and I apply real effort, I can change myself...in effect...I don't need therapy (or another significant relationship). However, the way the brain is functions it isn't that simple.

So many people think they can just apply their will to change their problem behaviours. And it's generally perceived that people who can't change this way are weak. We know from neuroscience that it isn't that simple.

There's something else going on in therapy that is more effective in changing behaviours or feelings about oneself. We learn best by experience and in the moment. It isn't so much about becoming aware of our problem behaviours and trying to change them, it's about having an experience that changes the brain.

This is why I emphasize the therapeutic relationship and also somatic therapy. They allow you to have an experience.

So back to why I go to therapy. I go so that I can experience myself differently, in a more expanded way, freer, more creative. I've mentioned this before, but I could never have been so public as I am with this website if I hadn't had the somatic therapy I had...not to mention the help of a couple very fine therapists. (I remember when I first posted live on the net...I was so tied up in knots.)

Just curious, does this make sense to you guys?
Suzanne

Interesting... me and my T were just talking about 'will power'. I don't want to visit the bee farm out of pure will power (which I could do I"m sure) but change the entire experience of it all, thereby changing those good 'ol neuropathways etc. The purpose is to create a new experience of it all.

- dude

Shrinklady-

Yes- what you have shared makes a lot of sense to me.. I like the way you explain things at least for this particular discussion.

I think I'm asking something else in my post that is off that topic but also related too.

Hi Butterfly Warrior, sorry, I didn't follow your train of thought earlier. You were right, it was a bit of a tangent...I get inspired and there I go!

I read in one of your posts that you found "exposure therapy" yukky. I can really relate to your comments about it. Actually, I get quite worked up about the subject. I think too often "exposure therapy" is actually "flooding". And, in my books flooding isn't good for the nervous system.

Exposure therapy doesn't have to feel yukky if it's titrated. But I can't imagine using it without knowing what's going on inside someone, which is what I get when I use somatic therapy.

Problem is, exposure therapy works. But not in the way that's always beneficial. I hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation.

If you permit to go on a bit of tangent...for years behaviour therapy (the basis for exposure therapy) was the rationale for letting babies cry themselves to sleep. It worked! They stopped crying and each night they cried less and less. Problem is, they weren't recognizing that the babies were becoming docile. In effect, they were becoming depressed or as some practitioners might say, they were going into dorsal.

Behaviour therapy is based on good science. It's the application of its principles that I have a problem with. Not enough measures are taken to look at the whole person to see the impact of an intervention.

I think we're wired to avoid fear inducing stimuli for good reason. And, when we're ready, we step into the change. It doesn't need to be forced. And getting to that point of readiness, comes about with safety. Until that reptilian brain is safe, it will work against efforts that are contrary to what it feels is survival related.

So what am I questioning with the baby example above? How do we know that your fears aren't going underground where they might be harmful to you in other ways? I've certainly seen people become more activated once they've been flooded, which is what exposure therapy does.

So, I was glad to hear that you didn't like it. I'd say that's good instincts.

Well, that's my rant for the day,

Take care,
Shrinklady

Thank you ... this response makes a lot of sense to me as to why exposure therapy can be difficult to handle... the activation..... etc, etc...

strangely enough.... i did notice that it helped me more than symptom management.... I need more core work I guess so I just recently made the decision to start back to working on trauma with my therapist.. ugh.. i'm not 100% eager about this but it seems to be the only thing I can think of right now besides just giving up..

Don't get me wrong Butterfly Warrior--just to clarify my earlier remarks...when I said I didn't like exposure therapy, I meant when it is used in a way that doesn't include the somatic sensations associated with the stimulus. When we experience a stimulus in a "titrated" way, it is much easier for the nervous system to process. And there is less danger of creating a negative side effect.

I use exposure therapy all the time. But it's titrated. Whenever I question a client what they notice after talking about something difficult, I am in a sense using "exposure therapy". I am asking them to re-experience part of it. I use how they respond to decide whether to move forward or create a more balanced state.

Shrinklady

I understood what you meant but thanks for the clarification

You know, I've always wondered why my therapist always question so much about what you're feeling/thinking after talking about activating material... lol.... I mean.. I sorta guessed in some ways it's helping one become more present with the material as well as with the safeness of the current environment but also in another way, it was almost slightly amusing like... right.. I feel great!!! uh huh... yeh right... lol...

I think the biggest issue for me is how I feel some hours latter.. not right after or during but like... latter that evening... that's always the problem area for me.

Dude- if you read these... do you or anyone else find this to be the case too or not?

We need more people on this board... I need to start spreading the word about it among some communities I belong to.. I just haven't been much with 'it' lately...

AFter i did my bee/wasp thing i felt AWESOME afterwards! i felt like i actually accomplished something. I was overwhelemed at the time because i rather 'froze', that is, i didn't tell my T to drive away when i should have...
dude

p.s. YES we need more input here!

Dude, et al.. lol... I think that's a little too much exposure for me!!! You did a really incredible job with that.

I take myself and think of my trauma related fears and just can't imagine doing anything like that in person.... I don't care with my therapist.. i don't care... I think I would need a shot of xanax or something!!!

Did you ever open that jar of honey?

Today... therapist said she won't be able to see anyone next week due to some random in-house thing at the center so we postponed our starting trauma processing crap.... I was sorta relieved though at the same time sorta upset because I feel like I wasted a whole lot of worry and anxiety management for nothing... lol.... than she siad we can talk about some of my goals.. what I hope to accomplish and want through this process, etc and I did none of that.. it was like all or nothing.. that's it... LOL.. so we talked about my research, goals, academia, obstacles and other issues that came up over the week. She told me to give her a call next week if I want to phone in to check in which I thought was cool of her. She does seem to be a lot more available by telephone than my previous therapist or she makes herself available I should say.. I don't know if it's because of her more extensive background working in mood disorders clinics or what but she is very much the type to check in on your mood each and every session and if you call, she always screens for suicidal thoughts, etc... I'm so not used to that from my past therapist. Guess it's interesting seeing different peoples ways of doing things.

You know something I'm trying to figure out and maybe someone might have some input on this. I do have my own hypothesis about it. Last year, when I began doing trauma work, I was a lot mroe... well... I was nervous as heck but more open to it. THis time, I'm open.. I want to but I'm a heck of a lot more scared. I don't quite understand that because I was really scared before and now I've done this part before. I've told my story or stories before... I've done or been through some bits of exposure.. wrote some letters.. had to read them like every week at least once... did some other exercises like writing about how my abuse effects me from the past, present and future in self, other and world view, etc etc.... and now this time around, just the idea of having to repeat say a primary story is just really scaring me. Like I used to be able to thinl about it.. like reherse it in my head.. kinda... expose myself, if you will.... to it all.. write it out.. get it out of my system and than talk about it but now, i can't bare to do that.... and I just have to kinda wait.. .and deal with it as it comes. My hypothesis is that the processing that I did activated it so it's much more surface level than it used to be thus repeating the stories now is much more emotionally scary because Im much more connected to it than I used to be. I suppose this means therapy was working... but how long am I going to feel this way? The ultimate question for me....

I thought I did 'ok'. Actually, i didn't get out of the car LOL. But, there were darned bees frlying around it which totally flipped me out. My mantra is 'they are NOT out to get me personally'.... more later.
- dude

I don't have a bee phobia Dude.. and I wouldn't have gotten out of the car.... that's common sense!!!! If therapist said we should get out of the car, I would have said, you first!! hehehe.. kidding.....

you did terrific which is much better than 'ok'

Guess no one has any input on my hypothesis from my last post, eh??

Besides that comment, wanted to say that while I live in San Diego, so far, we are safe from the fires... lots of fires but we haven't had to evacuate. I don't know anyone personally affected as of yet...

Another completely unrelated question to the above two statements.. well maybe not completely unrelated but not directly... where do intrusive memories 'flood' (is that the term?) from? It makes sense that if there is a stimulus related to the memory, that intrusive memories might come about but if one has the intrusive thoughts/memories, etc with seemingly no provoking/triggering stim.... what explains that??

Or is that a matter of.. maybe one just didn't recognize or pick up the triggering factors....

"My hypothesis is that the processing that I did activated it so it's much more surface level than it used to be thus repeating the stories now is much more emotionally scary because Im much more connected to it than I used to be"

You also have a new therapist right? it always takes a while to trust someone. Perhaps you aren't ready for that big of a step? Perhaps it doesn't yet seem safe enough for you? Our T has the view that each time you deal with a memory, you have new feelings, new thoughts, and perhaps new ways of looking at it. Maybe the memory is going deeper for you?

Also, I think our body has a way of betraying us! It remembers and responds before our 'head' does. Therefore, you may not sense a trigger for a memory 'in your head'. Make sense?

Glad you are keeping safe. We have another friend in California who we are worried about... need to try to contact her.

- Antoni (I'm with Dude)

Hi Butterfly Warrior, I'm sorry I didn't see your post.

I think you're right that you're more connected to to your trauma, but this could be for many reasons. I think of it as the level of activation being up and our level of activation can be up for instance as Antoni mentioned...if you're not yet feeling enough safety with your therapist. This is a big factor. Stress from life circumstances can bring our activation up too. I think of the body as a container where too much stimulation can bring up our activation even on a daily basis. After a good night sleep for instance, our level of activation can be a little lower.

The more my container is "full" i.e. activated, the more I feel my "stuff", my traumas, my issues. Too much activation in my system--from whatever source--makes me less resilient. I feel my traumas more intensely.

I'm also wondering as you mention, if you're re-triggering the memory of the work you did before. Is it possible you got too much "exposure" last time when you did your trauma work? We can get re-traumatized by going over our own traumas when it isn't titrated i.e. in keeping with your level of activation. I'm always surprised--and so are my clients--how activated we can get without knowing it. The only way we can know it is by slowing everything down and checking into our body--and only--when we're feeling safe. Otherwise, the nervous system may block some of your activation from your awareness. When there is a lot of dissociation (i.e. numbing) in the way, it makes it harder to recognize it too...boy is it ever complicated to try to describe my work.

But you're doing the "work" anyway even though you're not in the middle of the trauma. Just feeling the angst about doing trauma work is the "work".
By calming yourself down as you think of doing it, could help (i.e. hot bath, connecting with your therapist). I experienced regular progress in my therapy without going anywhere near my traumas. And I did this for years. I have only touched on some of my trauma stuff today.

Shrinklady

Sorry everyone that I have been so long in responding.

Im in san diego california where all of the fires have been and it has been really stressful. Things are much much calmer now but my own stress/depression/anxiety levels are not great and I have been doing a whole lot of sleeping, even to the point that I missed therapy this past tuesday, something I NEVER, EVER do.

I very much appreciate everyones feedback on the issues I brought up and plan to respond to them but right now, I still feel pretty crappy after dealing with another migraine today. I think it was a rebound one because I'm on MS COntin. . a type of morphine for my chronic pain but sometimes, it turns against me and I believe that happend today because I was really late taking it from.. well sleeping bassiucally all day.

I'm glad to see we have a new face here at the forum and hope to see more.

ttfn

Butterfly Warrior

Hello Butterfly Warrior, good to hear from you. I was thinking of you this past week, being in San Francisco and all, and remembering as I heard more about the fires, that you were near them. I haven't heard where the fires are now. Have things started to settle? Are you safe where you are?

I glad to hear that you're getting plenty of sleep. It's a natural ressponse. I'm a big "bath" person. Hope you're getting those too.

Take good care,
Shrinklady

Shrinklady-
Thank you for your kind thoughts.. sorry Inever responded... looks like i somehow never saw them or something.

I love taking long hot showers. I can't take baths due to my arthritis but I miss them however I sit on my showerchair and enjoy the water just falling on me.. loveeee it.

Hello Butterfly Warrior, so glad to see you back.

Yes, about posts...I have the dickens of a time...as my grandmother would say...finding posts on this board. But since it's my first board experience I figure it will just take me some time...so I completely understand that you might not have seen it. That's what I figured.

By the way, are you able to get into to see your therapist yet? I was thinking about you lately because I recalled you were only able to talk with her over the phone and I've been researching phone counseling. It'd be ideal if you had streaming video.

Shrinklady

For each topic you can put "notifications : On" at the bottom. It might help a bit.

antoni

Thanks Antoni, yup, I know that one...took me a while to understand how it works. It doesn't always work and I guess it's when the subject changes and then naturally I don't get notified.

It might help if I read my manual...seems everyday something new to learn.

Shrinklady

Shrinklady-

Thanks again for your kind concern.

I'm not a fan of telephone counseling at all. That visual effect is REALLY needed. I guess if I were blind, it would be diffferent but since Im not, it drives me up the wall. I just can't feel comfortable. I'm glad to have the contact though so it's better than nothing at all!!!

I did get to see her today.. or make that yesterday actually and about 2 weeks ago, a friend took me by car which was really nice. Yesterday, we acclomplished a whole lot in person and I have to say, I was really nervous seeing her because it has been so long since I have been IN the office!!! How odd!! I guess I'm a real stickler to my safe space thing.

My depression is just horrible and I have been aware of it though in denial of just how debilitating it has been and I think that has been brought to my attention so back to the baby steps of behavioral activation. I do like this approach in CBT but than I get frustrated because I have the totally high expectations type A personality hard core need to achieve way more than my mood is ready to handle so than I'm like... oh... i can't do these baby steps, this is DUMB... So I did bring that up to her and she pointed me back to one of my favotite books "Full Catastrophe Living" ... mindfulness type approach about trying to reserve/hold back judgement/critisism... so that's a good reminder.. I need to find this book.. it's in my book shelf some place.

I looked up somatic expereincing therapist the other day and there is one near me that seems to have extensive expereince. Not only as a SE therapist but also in EMDR too. She sounds perfect for the trauma work I need but I don't have any financial assistance right now nor insurance so that wouldnt work however I was just happy to see that someone was so near to me. I'm tempted to email her just to find out more about her work, approach type thing.

In terms of managing your Boards.... it's amazing that you do this. I have tried to manage a forum within something like Livejournal and it was rather overwhelming for me!!! I'm sure you will get the hang of it all soon.

Next week I have another session and than it's christmas/new years.. so won't see her again until Jan. She said she doesn't like being gone so long which I guess is nice that she cares but it makes me feel weird when she says that.. not sure why.. guess im weird.. lol.

Ciao

reading your manual is always a good thing! You sure you're not a guy?? LOL NOT reading instructions is a typical guy thing is it not?

We're in 'crisis mode' rather here. So I (Antoni) am 'in charge' which I don't do so well but I'm trying.

I'm not so great with the kids (inside or outside kids) but I'm doing my best!

Antoni

Hi Antoni, yeah, I'm not one to read a map either. I guess I like to create a bit of challenge. When someone is describing where I'm to meet them, I imagine the houses, streets and landmarks in my mind and then I go from there.

Sorry to hear things aren't going so well. You have manage things, eh? Interesting. I'm curious do you have a sense of being a kid to draw from?

Shrinklady

LOL!!!
you're asking an inside guy if i have an inner child?? that's incredibly funny!!

antoni

Hey, are you laughing at me! Yeah, I guess it sounds kinda funny. Glad I could make you laugh.

Shrinklady

Hope to be laughing 'with' you not 'at' you! I'm just picturing it... that is, which inside kid wants to claim to be MY inner child! hrm...

yes, 'coping'... it's the best I can do at the moment. We have T tonight though. We give CG a run for her money for sure! It must feel like doing therapy with a crowd at times though. So many of us and only her little singleton brain to deal with it all!

Antoni

I don't really know why though it's probably because I'm really sensitive...Im being honest here in a way that makes me feel quite vulnerable but I really dislike when I make a post here ... maybe a rather long one and like no one responds to it... i guess it makes me feel insecure... yes,, im sure this reflects on some inner issue of my own but just the same.... it bothers me..