Way to go on bringing up the subject of your records! I hope she helped you to see that it was a valid concern.

I used to have the same experience (i.e. forgetting) when I first started my SRT although I generally don't forget anymore. I believe it's because as my activation has come down I'm more present and I can remember more.

One thing that really helped me with my current therapist (she doesn't do SRT but uses some body-based techniques) is that I made a point of asking her--several times at the beginning--to interrupt me during the session and have me check in to my body and to bring awareness to the momemt. I do this all the time with my clients so I wanted it with my own therapy.(I wrote a bit about it here: Counseling and Resistance)

This really helps as it gives me pause to reflect. I also happen to believe that it's an effective way to change emotional patterns.

That's great that you process after the session. I should do that too. I imagine it would reinforce whatever I got from it.

You had asked about processing ideas. I imagine if you get your body into a more relaxed state immediately after your session like with a hot bath, it would help you to process deeper. I'd try to get into the "feeling state" of the session (i.e. shifting into right brain).

Take care,
Shrinklady
P.S. I have a Gund teddy bear and he now has a family!

What is SRT? why is a 'shrink' ging to a 'shrink? How long do you expect to go?

more later... just got back from holidays...

dude

Hey welcome back Dude. Well yes, you bet I go to therapy. I'm trying to make it a big point on the site...everybody has their stuff and that includes me.

I feel every therapist should go to therapy. If they really believe in the power of it, I can't see why they wouldn't.

And, for me personally I know that one of the fastest ways to have greater consciousness, is through an experience with another person. I feel so much more conscious these days compared to even a couple years ago. I just want more of it.

I believe, my nervous system is benefiting from the nervous system of my therapist. I wrote a bit about it in the Holistic Psychoherapy and Neurobiology. This is also why you need a grounded therapist.

So this is one of the major reasons I go...I become more conscious and I can manage my activation better.

Thanks for asking aobut SRT. Self-Regulation Therapy is a body-based therapy. So as I was saying earlier, my T will have me pause and check into my body sensations. Can't say enough about it and I love to talk about.

Take care,

Shrinklady

Thanks for the 'welcome back'. It was a great holiday for the most part... the weather got a bit crapy up north though. We did visit an old friend on our way back 'south'. And, the 'host' disclosed her dx! This friend wanted to meet one of us insiders so we had a 'volunteer' named Samy (a teen girl). Later, when we were all talking (host, friend and hubbie) I came out very briefly, and amazingly of all... she noticed it wasn't 'host' talking ! That was very insightful of her as I was very brief. I always find that interesting... when people finally realize there is a 'we' that they pick up quickly who is who. Or more... who ISNT who. Some can do this easier than others.

I always find it interesting that T's have their own T. I liken it to a mechanic having his own mechanic!

One last thought for now... our 'host' is thinking of going back to school to get a Masters in Counselling Psychology. Interesting... she wants to work with young kids. If anyone has any info. on the reputation of different universities they can PM me (HA! did anyone figure out how to do this?) Just kidding... comment away! Any help is appreciated!

More later.

dude

I"mi not clear what you mean by a 'greater consciousness' maybe a greater 'conscience' though!! (hehe...) I just read a bit about SRT 9though with our 4 girls and a friend over of their's it's hard to concentrate! I can't WAIT until school is back for them!) And found it interesting. However, the last time i did some 'relaxing - see how your body is feeling - type - stuff' with my T I flipped out! I mean, if my 'fight' is gone, what do I have left?

Dude

B.W. - I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my T having my previous records! Why did she need them? Also, 'how do you process therapy sessions' has got me thinking ... I don't know if I DO this exactly (as in writing things down) but it's a good idea!

Cheers,
Dude

Hi Dude, "try it you'll like it" ...working with fight energy is awesome for reducing your activation

I've had heard that comment before...that "I'll lose my anger". In fact, I addressed it in the manual I'm writing for squeeze balls.

But channeling fight energy out of your body won't take away your anger but the anger will be more manageable. Over time, it'll actually help to make you more assertive. And, you'll think clearer.

Like, have you ever been really mad about something and later felt that was too much energy for it? Working somatically with fight, takes the edge off it.

When I tell clients that I used to have an anger problem they are so shocked. And I understand it because I don't look like I would. But, when there's too much trauma in the nervous system and you start to come out of freeze, anger or flight is what's going to happen.

tata,
Shrinklady
P.S. Consciousness is very hard to describe...like trying to describe floating in water if you've never done it before. But here's my latest on it: A higher state of consciousness

""As I have become less dissociative, I have more moments of being "in my body".

What an interesting thing to say! Especially for us here with DID :P

I believe I got to this site from your squeeze ball my T had (which I used briefly) and a pin or something she had ... with the reptile on it.

I'm not keen on 'squeeze balls' I'd rather plow someone in the face :P ok... actually I'm rather gentle. Still trying to figure out the 'let go of anger' thing here. I still think that anger keeps me going, and lack of anger will have a negative effect on me.

Did I tell you I'm thinking of going on a 'field trip' with my T to a bee farm? Don't have the details yet but I'll keep y'all posted.

Dude

Dude:

I guess CG is a field trip kinda therapist....we too, have been on many field trips (so to speak) over the years.....I found them quite beneficial.....

Deb

Butterfly Warrior & Shrinklady:

I too have a "stuffie"....Buddy is his name and he has a velcro opening where I have stored some of my mothers cremains (ashes)....Sorry if that sounds gross.....Since I had never quite bonded/connected with my mother while she was alive, I thought this might be a way of finding a spiritual(or whatever term may apply here) connection through placing her in my teddy that accompany's and comforts me in those moments that I am in need of comfort, support or simply someone to tell my troubles to....He/She/They listens really well, never interupts and seems to love me unconditionally (LOL).....and have never betrayed me, not even once......

Still recovering from my visit to New York....
Deb
ps...Have found my "Waking the Tiger" book...and have started reading the intro....

Deb-
If you still get messages from here... thanks for sharing this message about your stuffie and your mom's ashes... its not gross, it's what helps you.

Glad you found your book waking the tiger.. I should ask Adrine how she likes the book now if she has gotten further along in it.

BW

Dude-

So funny you find it funny about T with T because I think any healthy therapist SHOULD have therapy if not more than once in their life. Many accredited programs require that you get persona therapy before graduating!! I have encountered this requirement in another programs I have been thinking of applying to! I know that many therapist I have worked with or around in terms of as my professors or mentors have all gone through or currently have therapy as a means of personal growth. It's a relief to me that they do go.. well those that go.. .because.. everyone is human... and even knowing so much about human behavior... doesn't mean you can recognize your own behaviors or even know how to address them.. with yourself...

I don't know..... It's logical to me but I guess some people find it quite shocking too...

I had one therapist that told me she is a real believer in therapy. She was my therapist and i think she read my mind because I did see her as kinda like... really stable.. like.. yeah right.. had to be short term therapy... right after i thoight that.. she added.. both long term and short term therapy.... lol.... such is life... I was a little surprised.... I had to think about why i felt that way and why was it significant.... whatever the case, I was glad she told me... it didn't make me feel so bad about the fact that I had been seeing her for like 4 years and was possibly going to continue therapy after graduation at the time.. (which I did.. and still am... ).

Okay.. random... if i don't make sense.... i blame it on my pain meds.. lol.

Hi everyone,

Nice to see you back Butterfly Warrior.

Just to add my thoughts to this discussion...one of the things I'm trying to raise awareness about how we perceive therapy is that there is a more effective way to change our behaviours than is traditionally thought and it has enormous benefits beyond what people normally go to therapy for e.g. anxiety and depression. But it's hard to describe briefly in words...

I suspect many people think of going to therapy this way: they will discuss their problems and then the therapist will make suggestions about what to do to change them. Then they will have to do their darndest to change the offensive behaviour with the support of a therapist--which is often helpful.

This certainly is a part of therapy. And, the benefit I see with this aspect of therapy is that you can become more aware of problems areas. However, changing those behaviours...in a way that's integrated and embodied is a different matter.

Because this kind of thinking suggests that once I become aware (with or without the therapist's help) if I read a lot of books and really understand what healthy behaviours look like, and I apply real effort, I can change myself...in effect...I don't need therapy (or another significant relationship). However, the way the brain is functions it isn't that simple.

So many people think they can just apply their will to change their problem behaviours. And it's generally perceived that people who can't change this way are weak. We know from neuroscience that it isn't that simple.

There's something else going on in therapy that is more effective in changing behaviours or feelings about oneself. We learn best by experience and in the moment. It isn't so much about becoming aware of our problem behaviours and trying to change them, it's about having an experience that changes the brain.

This is why I emphasize the therapeutic relationship and also somatic therapy. They allow you to have an experience.

So back to why I go to therapy. I go so that I can experience myself differently, in a more expanded way, freer, more creative. I've mentioned this before, but I could never have been so public as I am with this website if I hadn't had the somatic therapy I had...not to mention the help of a couple very fine therapists. (I remember when I first posted live on the net...I was so tied up in knots.)

Just curious, does this make sense to you guys?
Suzanne

Interesting... me and my T were just talking about 'will power'. I don't want to visit the bee farm out of pure will power (which I could do I"m sure) but change the entire experience of it all, thereby changing those good 'ol neuropathways etc. The purpose is to create a new experience of it all.

- dude

Shrinklady-

Yes- what you have shared makes a lot of sense to me.. I like the way you explain things at least for this particular discussion.

I think I'm asking something else in my post that is off that topic but also related too.

Hi Butterfly Warrior, sorry, I didn't follow your train of thought earlier. You were right, it was a bit of a tangent...I get inspired and there I go!

I read in one of your posts that you found "exposure therapy" yukky. I can really relate to your comments about it. Actually, I get quite worked up about the subject. I think too often "exposure therapy" is actually "flooding". And, in my books flooding isn't good for the nervous system.

Exposure therapy doesn't have to feel yukky if it's titrated. But I can't imagine using it without knowing what's going on inside someone, which is what I get when I use somatic therapy.

Problem is, exposure therapy works. But not in the way that's always beneficial. I hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation.

If you permit to go on a bit of tangent...for years behaviour therapy (the basis for exposure therapy) was the rationale for letting babies cry themselves to sleep. It worked! They stopped crying and each night they cried less and less. Problem is, they weren't recognizing that the babies were becoming docile. In effect, they were becoming depressed or as some practitioners might say, they were going into dorsal.

Behaviour therapy is based on good science. It's the application of its principles that I have a problem with. Not enough measures are taken to look at the whole person to see the impact of an intervention.

I think we're wired to avoid fear inducing stimuli for good reason. And, when we're ready, we step into the change. It doesn't need to be forced. And getting to that point of readiness, comes about with safety. Until that reptilian brain is safe, it will work against efforts that are contrary to what it feels is survival related.

So what am I questioning with the baby example above? How do we know that your fears aren't going underground where they might be harmful to you in other ways? I've certainly seen people become more activated once they've been flooded, which is what exposure therapy does.

So, I was glad to hear that you didn't like it. I'd say that's good instincts.

Well, that's my rant for the day,

Take care,
Shrinklady

Thank you ... this response makes a lot of sense to me as to why exposure therapy can be difficult to handle... the activation..... etc, etc...

strangely enough.... i did notice that it helped me more than symptom management.... I need more core work I guess so I just recently made the decision to start back to working on trauma with my therapist.. ugh.. i'm not 100% eager about this but it seems to be the only thing I can think of right now besides just giving up..

Don't get me wrong Butterfly Warrior--just to clarify my earlier remarks...when I said I didn't like exposure therapy, I meant when it is used in a way that doesn't include the somatic sensations associated with the stimulus. When we experience a stimulus in a "titrated" way, it is much easier for the nervous system to process. And there is less danger of creating a negative side effect.

I use exposure therapy all the time. But it's titrated. Whenever I question a client what they notice after talking about something difficult, I am in a sense using "exposure therapy". I am asking them to re-experience part of it. I use how they respond to decide whether to move forward or create a more balanced state.

Shrinklady

I understood what you meant but thanks for the clarification

You know, I've always wondered why my therapist always question so much about what you're feeling/thinking after talking about activating material... lol.... I mean.. I sorta guessed in some ways it's helping one become more present with the material as well as with the safeness of the current environment but also in another way, it was almost slightly amusing like... right.. I feel great!!! uh huh... yeh right... lol...

I think the biggest issue for me is how I feel some hours latter.. not right after or during but like... latter that evening... that's always the problem area for me.

Dude- if you read these... do you or anyone else find this to be the case too or not?

We need more people on this board... I need to start spreading the word about it among some communities I belong to.. I just haven't been much with 'it' lately...

AFter i did my bee/wasp thing i felt AWESOME afterwards! i felt like i actually accomplished something. I was overwhelemed at the time because i rather 'froze', that is, i didn't tell my T to drive away when i should have...
dude

p.s. YES we need more input here!

Dude, et al.. lol... I think that's a little too much exposure for me!!! You did a really incredible job with that.

I take myself and think of my trauma related fears and just can't imagine doing anything like that in person.... I don't care with my therapist.. i don't care... I think I would need a shot of xanax or something!!!

Did you ever open that jar of honey?

Today... therapist said she won't be able to see anyone next week due to some random in-house thing at the center so we postponed our starting trauma processing crap.... I was sorta relieved though at the same time sorta upset because I feel like I wasted a whole lot of worry and anxiety management for nothing... lol.... than she siad we can talk about some of my goals.. what I hope to accomplish and want through this process, etc and I did none of that.. it was like all or nothing.. that's it... LOL.. so we talked about my research, goals, academia, obstacles and other issues that came up over the week. She told me to give her a call next week if I want to phone in to check in which I thought was cool of her. She does seem to be a lot more available by telephone than my previous therapist or she makes herself available I should say.. I don't know if it's because of her more extensive background working in mood disorders clinics or what but she is very much the type to check in on your mood each and every session and if you call, she always screens for suicidal thoughts, etc... I'm so not used to that from my past therapist. Guess it's interesting seeing different peoples ways of doing things.

You know something I'm trying to figure out and maybe someone might have some input on this. I do have my own hypothesis about it. Last year, when I began doing trauma work, I was a lot mroe... well... I was nervous as heck but more open to it. THis time, I'm open.. I want to but I'm a heck of a lot more scared. I don't quite understand that because I was really scared before and now I've done this part before. I've told my story or stories before... I've done or been through some bits of exposure.. wrote some letters.. had to read them like every week at least once... did some other exercises like writing about how my abuse effects me from the past, present and future in self, other and world view, etc etc.... and now this time around, just the idea of having to repeat say a primary story is just really scaring me. Like I used to be able to thinl about it.. like reherse it in my head.. kinda... expose myself, if you will.... to it all.. write it out.. get it out of my system and than talk about it but now, i can't bare to do that.... and I just have to kinda wait.. .and deal with it as it comes. My hypothesis is that the processing that I did activated it so it's much more surface level than it used to be thus repeating the stories now is much more emotionally scary because Im much more connected to it than I used to be. I suppose this means therapy was working... but how long am I going to feel this way? The ultimate question for me....

I thought I did 'ok'. Actually, i didn't get out of the car LOL. But, there were darned bees frlying around it which totally flipped me out. My mantra is 'they are NOT out to get me personally'.... more later.
- dude

I don't have a bee phobia Dude.. and I wouldn't have gotten out of the car.... that's common sense!!!! If therapist said we should get out of the car, I would have said, you first!! hehehe.. kidding.....

you did terrific which is much better than 'ok'

Guess no one has any input on my hypothesis from my last post, eh??

Besides that comment, wanted to say that while I live in San Diego, so far, we are safe from the fires... lots of fires but we haven't had to evacuate. I don't know anyone personally affected as of yet...

Another completely unrelated question to the above two statements.. well maybe not completely unrelated but not directly... where do intrusive memories 'flood' (is that the term?) from? It makes sense that if there is a stimulus related to the memory, that intrusive memories might come about but if one has the intrusive thoughts/memories, etc with seemingly no provoking/triggering stim.... what explains that??

Or is that a matter of.. maybe one just didn't recognize or pick up the triggering factors....

"My hypothesis is that the processing that I did activated it so it's much more surface level than it used to be thus repeating the stories now is much more emotionally scary because Im much more connected to it than I used to be"

You also have a new therapist right? it always takes a while to trust someone. Perhaps you aren't ready for that big of a step? Perhaps it doesn't yet seem safe enough for you? Our T has the view that each time you deal with a memory, you have new feelings, new thoughts, and perhaps new ways of looking at it. Maybe the memory is going deeper for you?

Also, I think our body has a way of betraying us! It remembers and responds before our 'head' does. Therefore, you may not sense a trigger for a memory 'in your head'. Make sense?

Glad you are keeping safe. We have another friend in California who we are worried about... need to try to contact her.

- Antoni (I'm with Dude)

Hi Butterfly Warrior, I'm sorry I didn't see your post.

I think you're right that you're more connected to to your trauma, but this could be for many reasons. I think of it as the level of activation being up and our level of activation can be up for instance as Antoni mentioned...if you're not yet feeling enough safety with your therapist. This is a big factor. Stress from life circumstances can bring our activation up too. I think of the body as a container where too much stimulation can bring up our activation even on a daily basis. After a good night sleep for instance, our level of activation can be a little lower.

The more my container is "full" i.e. activated, the more I feel my "stuff", my traumas, my issues. Too much activation in my system--from whatever source--makes me less resilient. I feel my traumas more intensely.

I'm also wondering as you mention, if you're re-triggering the memory of the work you did before. Is it possible you got too much "exposure" last time when you did your trauma work? We can get re-traumatized by going over our own traumas when it isn't titrated i.e. in keeping with your level of activation. I'm always surprised--and so are my clients--how activated we can get without knowing it. The only way we can know it is by slowing everything down and checking into our body--and only--when we're feeling safe. Otherwise, the nervous system may block some of your activation from your awareness. When there is a lot of dissociation (i.e. numbing) in the way, it makes it harder to recognize it too...boy is it ever complicated to try to describe my work.

But you're doing the "work" anyway even though you're not in the middle of the trauma. Just feeling the angst about doing trauma work is the "work".
By calming yourself down as you think of doing it, could help (i.e. hot bath, connecting with your therapist). I experienced regular progress in my therapy without going anywhere near my traumas. And I did this for years. I have only touched on some of my trauma stuff today.

Shrinklady

Sorry everyone that I have been so long in responding.

Im in san diego california where all of the fires have been and it has been really stressful. Things are much much calmer now but my own stress/depression/anxiety levels are not great and I have been doing a whole lot of sleeping, even to the point that I missed therapy this past tuesday, something I NEVER, EVER do.

I very much appreciate everyones feedback on the issues I brought up and plan to respond to them but right now, I still feel pretty crappy after dealing with another migraine today. I think it was a rebound one because I'm on MS COntin. . a type of morphine for my chronic pain but sometimes, it turns against me and I believe that happend today because I was really late taking it from.. well sleeping bassiucally all day.

I'm glad to see we have a new face here at the forum and hope to see more.

ttfn

Butterfly Warrior

Hello Butterfly Warrior, good to hear from you. I was thinking of you this past week, being in San Francisco and all, and remembering as I heard more about the fires, that you were near them. I haven't heard where the fires are now. Have things started to settle? Are you safe where you are?

I glad to hear that you're getting plenty of sleep. It's a natural ressponse. I'm a big "bath" person. Hope you're getting those too.

Take good care,
Shrinklady

Shrinklady-
Thank you for your kind thoughts.. sorry Inever responded... looks like i somehow never saw them or something.

I love taking long hot showers. I can't take baths due to my arthritis but I miss them however I sit on my showerchair and enjoy the water just falling on me.. loveeee it.

Hello Butterfly Warrior, so glad to see you back.

Yes, about posts...I have the dickens of a time...as my grandmother would say...finding posts on this board. But since it's my first board experience I figure it will just take me some time...so I completely understand that you might not have seen it. That's what I figured.

By the way, are you able to get into to see your therapist yet? I was thinking about you lately because I recalled you were only able to talk with her over the phone and I've been researching phone counseling. It'd be ideal if you had streaming video.

Shrinklady

For each topic you can put "notifications : On" at the bottom. It might help a bit.

antoni

Thanks Antoni, yup, I know that one...took me a while to understand how it works. It doesn't always work and I guess it's when the subject changes and then naturally I don't get notified.

It might help if I read my manual...seems everyday something new to learn.

Shrinklady

Shrinklady-

Thanks again for your kind concern.

I'm not a fan of telephone counseling at all. That visual effect is REALLY needed. I guess if I were blind, it would be diffferent but since Im not, it drives me up the wall. I just can't feel comfortable. I'm glad to have the contact though so it's better than nothing at all!!!

I did get to see her today.. or make that yesterday actually and about 2 weeks ago, a friend took me by car which was really nice. Yesterday, we acclomplished a whole lot in person and I have to say, I was really nervous seeing her because it has been so long since I have been IN the office!!! How odd!! I guess I'm a real stickler to my safe space thing.

My depression is just horrible and I have been aware of it though in denial of just how debilitating it has been and I think that has been brought to my attention so back to the baby steps of behavioral activation. I do like this approach in CBT but than I get frustrated because I have the totally high expectations type A personality hard core need to achieve way more than my mood is ready to handle so than I'm like... oh... i can't do these baby steps, this is DUMB... So I did bring that up to her and she pointed me back to one of my favotite books "Full Catastrophe Living" ... mindfulness type approach about trying to reserve/hold back judgement/critisism... so that's a good reminder.. I need to find this book.. it's in my book shelf some place.

I looked up somatic expereincing therapist the other day and there is one near me that seems to have extensive expereince. Not only as a SE therapist but also in EMDR too. She sounds perfect for the trauma work I need but I don't have any financial assistance right now nor insurance so that wouldnt work however I was just happy to see that someone was so near to me. I'm tempted to email her just to find out more about her work, approach type thing.

In terms of managing your Boards.... it's amazing that you do this. I have tried to manage a forum within something like Livejournal and it was rather overwhelming for me!!! I'm sure you will get the hang of it all soon.

Next week I have another session and than it's christmas/new years.. so won't see her again until Jan. She said she doesn't like being gone so long which I guess is nice that she cares but it makes me feel weird when she says that.. not sure why.. guess im weird.. lol.

Ciao

reading your manual is always a good thing! You sure you're not a guy?? LOL NOT reading instructions is a typical guy thing is it not?

We're in 'crisis mode' rather here. So I (Antoni) am 'in charge' which I don't do so well but I'm trying.

I'm not so great with the kids (inside or outside kids) but I'm doing my best!

Antoni

Hi Antoni, yeah, I'm not one to read a map either. I guess I like to create a bit of challenge. When someone is describing where I'm to meet them, I imagine the houses, streets and landmarks in my mind and then I go from there.

Sorry to hear things aren't going so well. You have manage things, eh? Interesting. I'm curious do you have a sense of being a kid to draw from?

Shrinklady

LOL!!!
you're asking an inside guy if i have an inner child?? that's incredibly funny!!

antoni

Hey, are you laughing at me! Yeah, I guess it sounds kinda funny. Glad I could make you laugh.

Shrinklady

Hope to be laughing 'with' you not 'at' you! I'm just picturing it... that is, which inside kid wants to claim to be MY inner child! hrm...

yes, 'coping'... it's the best I can do at the moment. We have T tonight though. We give CG a run for her money for sure! It must feel like doing therapy with a crowd at times though. So many of us and only her little singleton brain to deal with it all!

Antoni

I don't really know why though it's probably because I'm really sensitive...Im being honest here in a way that makes me feel quite vulnerable but I really dislike when I make a post here ... maybe a rather long one and like no one responds to it... i guess it makes me feel insecure... yes,, im sure this reflects on some inner issue of my own but just the same.... it bothers me..

Hi Butterfly Warrior, yes that sucks when no one responds.

I enjoyed your last post and I'm sorry I didn't get around to responding. It was as if I responded in my head because you have been in my thoughts many times.

I think your voice has touched many people, more than you know. Your posts certainly have been very meaningful to me.

I was curious about a couple things. What is behavioural activation? I don't think I've run across that before.

Good to hear there's an SE therapist nearby. Did you end up emailing her? There are some study groups that have had guest clients come in to work with the group...maybe a possible option to consider if you could find a group like that.

Take care,
Shrinklady

"I can't do these baby steps... this is dumb" ... ok that sounds so like me! It stinks doesn't it? You seem to do a lot of reading and are very knowledgeable. That's awesome! I'm sorry you are so depressed this time of year. I think I 'heard' you don't celebrate Christmas? Can you find a way to have a 'good time' visiting others, familly or whatever, without it being 'Christmas'? Our Aunt was a JW and she would join us in singing (except not the caroles). It was a good memory.

Maybe you need a hobby? I haven't got my train up and running yet... been way way too busy!

Later,
Dude

Shrinklady-

This makes a lot of sense to me..

I hope in time, that more about SE therapies can be added here.. research, approaches, etc...

In regards to the change, new expereinces and neuropathways, I think back to one of my neuropsych classes i took where the professor always said "Those that FIre together, Wire together!!" lol. Those being neurons... prevention of neuronal death which is natural but of course we want as many neurons wiring as possible.

I hope one day to get the chance to work with a SE therapist as I believe this is the right direction for me. It is my feeling that often times, at least it's how I feel.. parts of my brain and body is STUCK from the traumas in my life. WHile processing those traumas can be helpful to the psychological coping side of things, this can leave one still feeling like something is missing... and that I believe is the so what now.... what do you do with this space that is trying to open or I don't even know how to word this but I know what I mean.. LOL.

Well Shrinklady, for the things/therapies that brought you here to do this board and be open as you are.. it's cool. It's a nice thing to see from a therapist. I really like the feminist/cultural competency perspective when it comes to relating to clients .. that one can disclose more about themselves then what traditional psychology would teach and that it's even encoruaged to be more like a friend or willing to take that approach because it works better with some clients who grew up in a culture that is family/community oriented. I don't know completely what I'm talking about but yeh.. okay... i haven't slept all night ... lol...

BW

Thanks for your comments Butterfly Warrior, yes Hebb's work...neurons firing together and wiring together...Dan Siegel was talking about him. It's one of the basis for how somatic therapy works...states becoming traits. Neat that you picked on that.

I quite enjoy hearing your comments about SE. I'm so grateful for somatic therapy. Still got a ways to go...my body still creeks when I move. I still get headaches. I need to show up much more. But all of this is improving.

Actually, I've learned that the recent tightness in my body is actually the dissociation lifting...so even though it feels worse, I'm feeling more. This is one of the connundrums of progress in therapy...sometimes, you feel worse...in the same way as one would coming out of freeze. However, the other side of it...I feel as if I have movement...so I really resonate with your concerns over feeling stuck.

Somatic work is such a fundamental shift from where the field of psychotherapy is currently. I think that unless a therapist really experiences its benefits, it just seems like another tool to them.

I also think us therapists need to be more public...to remove some of the mystery around going to therapy. Course, this requires that we "show up" and probably in a way we didn't sign up for when we decided to be therapists. I had a lot of ambivalence about being on this board at the beginning...still do to some extent. I haven't seen too many models out there to follow so I'm sort of breaking new ground. The hard part is knowing what boundaries I need to attend to. It's sometimes fuzzy...no clear answers.

As a group, us therapists have been terrible at promoting the benefits of psychotherapy. I think we need to make it public that therapists see therapists, that counseling is valued among us and it can benefit us all. The line between the therapist and the client isn't as divided as many people think. In other words, therapists have their stuff too. If we stepped forward more about this, maybe it wouldn't be so stigmatizing to people to seek therapy.


It was working somatically that I came to understand that all these divisions around different disorders are not as neatly delineated as we think. By the way have you read Bob Scaer's work, The Body Bears the Burden or the Trauma Spectrum? I think you'd enjoy his work. Talked about him in the human nervous system articles.

Good chatting with you,
Shrinklady

P.S. Dude, a hobby is a great idea. Helped me out of depression years ago...I got into design and feng shui. At the time, I was living in a 16 foot ceiling condo. It was awesome fun.

Dude.. lol.. yeh.. I'm a little sarcastic cynical in my daily movements.. hahaha...

I do have some hobbies .. mostly writing poetry, painting, swimming, and reading. I havn't done much of those lately except I have been doing some poetry and a bit if sketching at times.

Shrinklady-

Thanks for your responses, etc I was just in a mood.. lol..... they tend to capture me at times... LOL.

Aww.. yes.. Hebb.... didn't rememeber the name but now it' slike YES, lol. Strange how those things come back. I went to UCSD (University of California, San Diego)- a very very VERY research oriented university and as a result my foundation in psych and human development is based primarily, strictly in research. In some ways this has been cool and I have learned a lot but on other way's it's confining because these types of programs try to create comformity to the point that anything 'not validiated' by research is not valid.. like... play or art therapy.

Behavioral Activation is a newer form of CBT that doesn't focus so much on you're thoughts and changing them but more on the actions. Most people who are depressed don't feel liek doing this or that so BA says well you need to do this and that.. lol.. but in small steps so that the person isn't overwhelmed. THe more a person accomplishes these steps. the greater 'mastery' is felt over them therfore helping boost their mood. So it's working on activation of behavior... working right on those things you litteraly do to help alter mood. It's fast and concrete and is something someone can think to do even without the help of a therapist once they are used to doing them. I guess this is a really lame explantion of it but thats my interpretation of it.. lol. It has shown a lot of validity, test-retest relibility and all of that in both inpatient and outpatient settings. I have to say that I do like it while I fight the 'baby step thing as I call it because of my Type A personaility, I have to say that when I find myself stoping and reducing activities, I will think.. well I Know I need to start an activity and start putting pleasureable things in my life (ie. going out to eat with a friend this week or going to the library to check out a book)... so it's an immediate reward...

If i have the chance and find a good article on it, i will post it in the science and psych section.

So more tension is good? That's really nice to realize that you have more feeling and awarenes salthough on the other hand, it can seem/feel rather negative and aversive. I had an expereince like that where my psychiatrist really offended me and I cried (something i DON't Do in front of others) and my therapists reaction was "oh good, that means you're starting to feel your emotions more".. i was so taken aback like gee thanks a lot!

I do think that a lot of people don't go to therapy ot don't end up liking it, etc is because they feel their therapist is perfect or unreal. I know for some clients, they dont want to know their therapist is really human.. lol.. but I know for me personaly... my last therapist esp... Holly was very real with me and shared parts of herself with me and it truly helped me in many ways. I miss her for that alone but also so much more. My current therapist isn't so much like that. She isn't closed off but she is pretty much like there for me.. I feel that... I know she cares. she makes that very obvious but like i feel like I don't really know anything about her.

That book by Bob Scaer sounds really interesting. I haven't read it but I will ladd it to my list of books to look into.

No, I didn't email the SE therapist in my area. Still thinking about it. I don't think it would hurt to but I have been lame about getting things done lately and so sensitive to stuff that I guess I don't feel like taking any risks that might end up bringing me stress.

It's just been a hard week for me mood wise... I'm quite tired and can't seem to beat this intensive sleepiness I have. I slept from noon to near 11pm today and I've been doing that quite a bit. I know my sleep schedule is reversed but just the same, that is A LOT of hours and if i get up before then.. I'm just sleepy as heck and feel so tired, it's of no use to fight it.. than I think.. who cares. just go to sleep.. lol....

and than life goes on...

Butterfly Warrior,

Yeah, when you're tired, you're tired. So, I hope you just allow that to happen. Is the tiredness related to this time of year...did you get my latest newsletter? I talked about that.

You're Type A, eh? Well, it sounds like it's a good thing to be resting. Think of it this way, your body--and your nervous system--is learning something new.

Yes, I can see how behavioural activation would work. One of the most amazing things I got from somatic work is that I could finally see how change occurs. (I couldn't understand why other therapists weren't making more of this.)

I had recently read that it was the "behaviour" in CBT that was accounting for more of the change so what you're describing about behavioural activation sounds right on. Somatic work amounts to the same thing but we add a few things to make it more likely one can succeed at it. We add imaginal work (i.e. imagining the behaviour) and then gauaging the amount of change wanted with the amount of activation in the body so that's it's titrated. We then reduce the activation associated with the behaviour.

The somatic piece helps you to avoid setting yourself up for something you can't handle. But the more important reason--we think--is that by doing this in the presence of another nervous system, we're actually laying down pathways for that change.

So, in the session you build what's necessary to make it happen rather than talking about it and trying to do it on your own. So you create an "experience" in the brain. Doing a behaviour does this too. It creates an "experience" in the brain.

That "experience" with your psychiatrist sounded like his comment came at you from left field. It's too bad because in order to start feeling, we need a lot of safety...the nervous system needs to calm down...that comment would probably put me right back there in freeze mode too.

So, "feeling more" has its draw backs especially at the beginning when you don't know how to deal with emotions that have been blocked away for a time. When I wasn't seeing a therapist for a few years and I started to come out of freeze majorly, I moved right into fight. Look out!!! (Feeling much better, thank-you.)

Chat with you later,
Shrinklady

"feeling more" has its draw backs especially at the beginning when you don't know how to deal with emotions that have been blocked away for a time."

last therapy I basically cried the entire time. I just couldn't stop the tears even when i tried my darnest. She says it's 'a good thing' though it feels, honestly, like shit at the time! I'm not much of a crier.. I'm good at fighting and arguing though! i don't know what the 'switch' was (HA! no pun intended :P ) but I feel on the verge of tears a lot! I don't know how to deal with it actually... I tried so hard not to cry that I got a headache (though the tears still flowed!)I'm not sure how to cope with dignity!

Dude
p.s. things are a bit better... having a hobby (my new train track) makes a big difference!

That's good to hear you're feeling a little better Dude. That train set sounds fun. My grandfather had a train set up in the basement. It was awesome...tunnels, a bridge, forts. I haven't thought of that in years.

Shrinklady

Was just chekcing out your newsletter... but really don't have the 'brain power' to concentrate!

Dude

Hi, I've been lurking for a few weeks and really appreciate the site. I have to keep my left brain happy in order to let my right brain function and all the information on the site has been a great help. This thread really hit because of both the topic of processing sessions and how we experience change.
Butterfly Warrior, I often have a great deal of trouble remembering sessions beyond general emotional impressions, I think because of my level of activation. When my emotions are really intense I have a lot of problems taking anything in. So it was a relief to read your post and realize I'm not the only one. The most effective thing I've found is to do a journal entry as soon as possible about the session where I don't so much write down feelings as write down as much as I can remember aobut what got said and what happened. Helps to read it later when I am processing. Hope that helps.
I really sympathize with the new therapist thing. I've been in therapy on and off for over 20 years (can you say long term?) and my therapist of 18 years retired two years ago. It was a really significant loss which took me awhile to work through. But I've been making incredible progress with my new therapist and have gained a level of trust I find pretty suprising. Hang in there, but be patient with yourself. It takes time, and should, to build trust with a new therapist.
Which leads me to the discussion of the therapy experience. I'm dealing with a background of both physical and sexual abuse by my father. I didn't remember the sexual abuse until in my 30s when I was triggered by having children. My first therapist was a woman ('cause who would ever trust men?) but I ended up going to a male therapist after she retired. Which turned out to be a really good thing. We've been doing really significant work in the area of attachment and its taken me a while but I've learned that the only way to make it better is not understanding it but to experience over and over the fact that I can go to my therapist and seek out attachment and not have it be a bad thing. These experiences are in effect "rewiring" my brain so that I can convince all of me that moving toward relationship is a good thing. I was really blessed by finding an amazing therapist who really gets this and has been there in an amazing way. So Shrinklady, I absolutely get what you're talking about now, but that understanding came after a great deal of work and confusion! Sorry I went on so long, its good to have somewhere to say this where people will understand.

Hey Attachment Girl...welcome to the site...couldn't have picked a better name.

Thank-you for your comments. Yeah, it is so hard to describe some of the concepts...I was really glad to read what you had to say, to know that the ideas are resonating with some people. And, I'm so glad you mentioned the idea of "experience". That's what it's really about.

I was laughing with my therapist yesterday on this topic and the topic of trust. I spend a lot of time just sitting with my therapist these days letting my body learn to trust another human being. I don't need to say too much. I'll talk about something and then after a few minutes, I'll process it at a somatic level. This takes much longer, so I end up just being with her not saying too much other than I feel this sensation or that sensation. We were laughing just to imagine a whole case load of clients like this.

Therapy would be a hecka of a lot easier for therapists and clients. But peoople would need to understand why this was actually doing something.

Something to think about, eh?

Thanks for joining us,
Shrinklady

Thanks for the welcome! I definitely get what you're talking about. One of the things which identifies for me when I'm really feeling the trust is that I can "rest." I'm a babbler by nature, especially when I'm nervous, so just sitting and being takes a lot of trust. Another great thing about my therapist, he's good at still being there even when its quiet. Thanks again for the site.

Attachment Girl

Interesting, the idea of talking or NOT talking during therapy. lately, we have our T 'touch' the littles a lot... hold their hands,r ub their backs, etc. As one of them says, too much hits need a lot of touch to balance it out.

robin

hi Robin, your comment about the littles was sad to read. I'm glad they have someone who understands what they need.

We comfort babies this way, rubbing their backs. It helps to bring the parasympathetic nervous system online (the relaxation response).

I remember that for 6 months during my early therapy, I had that urge for someone to rub my back. I think I was coming out of dorsal (a shut down state of arousal). I wish my therapist had had the courage to do this for me.

Thanks for your comment,
Shrinklady

Robin,
I can definitely relate to needing a lot of safe touch. That fits with what we were talking about earlier, that its not just understanding but having new experiences that actually changes you. Glad you have a T who gets that. BTW, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on the forum, I really appreciate your willingness to be so open about the littles. Having done work to recover small parts of myself that got left behind gives me an immense amount of respect for all that you're handling. And with a sense of humor!
I had a therapy session this morning and did something I've never done. I was feeling really scared all the way there (ok, starting the night before : ) ) because I was uncomfortable about the stuff I needed to talk to my T about. I walked in, sat down, and said I just wanted to sit for a few minutes until I realized I was safe. My T asked how it felt being so open about how I felt and I realized that it felt really good. The level of safety I have with him still feels really strange as I've never had that with a man before. Pretty cool and provides a sense of progress. Did I mention I babble? : )

AG

Interesting... I didn't think of it as exactly sad. Here's an interesting 'progress report' ... when we first started in therapy, this particular inside little would sit right by the door in case she needed to bolt. And our T couldn't go near her at all (she had to sit in a chair on the oppostie side of the room). And if anyone reached out to touch her, she figured you were going to hit her, and she winced. Nowdays, this same little is the one who is aching for touch! She will just sit beside our T and put her head against her shoulder, or hold her hand. The little is also getting quite the sense of humour (ask our T, whom you, Shrinklady, know, about her 'that was easy button') - robin

That's wonderful. Yes, it sounds like things are looking up.

No, I was just sad to think where that innocent comment might have arose from, obviously from a scary place. But I'm glad to hear things are better.

I won't ask your T, just to preserve the little's privacy...and to secure her feeling of safety.

But thank-you anyway,
Shrinklady

confidentialitiy is a tricky thing!

and, by the way, we have our Abnormal Psych. exam in just over a week! YIKES!

studying with so many insdiers is an interesting challenge... there's alot of info. they don't need to read about! however, they are also very curious. one good thing, if we ever get into a master's program, we have a little who is a whiz at mathematical concepts... it looks like (if we get in where we want) we'll have to take statistics!

robin

Hi Attachment girl- Welcome here to the group. I have been gone along while but read your posts. Sounds like you have a great therapist that supports you in your healing journey. I like your n ame here.