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Some people do think like that, and it makes me mad too. 
So ignorant and judgemental.
I think if I had spare money I'd hire a nanny for the kids a few hours a week, so I could have some time to clean my house. ;P
For self indulgence, mmm, buy more books, see more movies, new rug for the living room, shoes, purses, eating out, etc. Maybe hire someone to paint the trim in my house since we've never gotten around to that.
So ignorant and judgemental. I think if I had spare money I'd hire a nanny for the kids a few hours a week, so I could have some time to clean my house. ;P
For self indulgence, mmm, buy more books, see more movies, new rug for the living room, shoes, purses, eating out, etc. Maybe hire someone to paint the trim in my house since we've never gotten around to that.
quote:I think if I had spare money I'd hire a nanny for the kids a few hours a week, so I could have some time to clean my house. ;P
HIC... hire someone to clean your house so you can play with and enjoy your kids before they are all grown up.
I would spend my money on a long cruise with lots of spa visits LOL.
TN
Funny how no one thinks a cast on a broken leg is self indulgence - or chemo for cancer - insulin for diabetics. Just mental health support that is picked on...
Well, if I had money, I'd get some good therapy, near my house so I wouldnt have to drive a long way.
If I didnt need help - I'd take my kids on adventures And fix up the house.
Well, if I had money, I'd get some good therapy, near my house so I wouldnt have to drive a long way.
If I didnt need help - I'd take my kids on adventures
And fix up the house.quote:HIC... hire someone to clean your house so you can play with and enjoy your kids before they are all grown up.
It's a pride thing, hired help being notoriously critical.
I think, or at least imagine, that my children are more of a credit to me than the state of my house. One has a reputation to maintain. (lol, I jest.
)
Nobody thinks it's self-indulgent to go to the gym and work out, but people think it's self-indulgent to go to therapy? They're both challenging things that you do to be the best version of yourself. Unless you're just going to therapy to blab about how much everyone in your life sucks without doing any actual work of self-examination...
My sister thinks it is self-indulgent, and reminds me of it regularly, while knowing I am in therapy... She sees it as self-pity, contemplating oneself instead of moving on and focus on the future... Well... Obviously, she does not get that in order to do that, I kind of "need" therapy. So I just ignore her. She has her believes, I have mine.
Therapy is the furthest thing from indulgence I can think of. In fact, it's the hardest work I've ever done in my entire life... :/
Hrm, if I had the time and money I spend on therapy and didn't have the issues that have caused me to go there, I'd probably go to school for a masters degree or more and get a degree...I don't know, the thing I feel most missing is a sense of having a calling, a way to contribute, as Boo gets older and needs me less.
Or, if we are talking about more trivial things, I would hire a maid weekly to keep my house sparkling, while freeing up time for me to get back in shape or play with my daughter more.
Hrm, if I had the time and money I spend on therapy and didn't have the issues that have caused me to go there, I'd probably go to school for a masters degree or more and get a degree...I don't know, the thing I feel most missing is a sense of having a calling, a way to contribute, as Boo gets older and needs me less.
Or, if we are talking about more trivial things, I would hire a maid weekly to keep my house sparkling, while freeing up time for me to get back in shape or play with my daughter more.
Wow! If people think that Therapy is for whiners and complainers, they are in dire need of an "education" on life, and they are unaware of people who want to heal from experiencing some horrific things. It also makes me think that these judgmental people are not in any pain, and they forget that our life experiences have not been as fortunate as theirs. They reek of being "SELF CENTERED", and they think we are to think and feel the way they do. Forget about their "IGNORANCE" and keep moving "FORWARD"!
If I had spare cash, I'd love to take care of all the neglected animals by finding them good loving homes, and donate healthy food and blankets and toys to the animal shelters
If I had spare cash, I'd love to take care of all the neglected animals by finding them good loving homes, and donate healthy food and blankets and toys to the animal shelters
Draggers,
Yes, some people do and it's a real red button issue for me. I actually ended a friendship because when I was recovering memories of the sexual abuse, I truly risked being vulnerable to share with a very dear friend what had happened to me and what it was like trying to heal from it. We share our faith and she is very devout, and I have no doubt that she meant what she said in the best way possible, but her response was "Isn't Christ enough, why do you have to go back?" It felt like she hadn't heard a word I said.
Ironically enough, she had some issues in her past that badly needed to be faced and that she was using her faith to avoid looking at.
So here's my take, the people who most loudly proclaim that therapy is a crutch or self-indulgent? They are more often than not, protecting themselves from facing their own pain and issues. I think on some deep level they know how scared they are, and so they devalue therapy so that they can feel justified in not having any.
I had a very healing moment once when a very old dear friend (we met at 14 as Freshman in High School; sorry don't know how to translate that into British.
) told me that I was stronger than her because I had the courage to go and face my issues and she didn't. I was shocked because I had always seen her as stronger than me and more well adjusted.
Therapy is not for wusses. Going in to face and understand yourself and in the case of trauma or neglect, processing that pain is a demanding, arduous task that calls for a lot of courage to face. So to people who say that therapy is self-endulging, I give a short pithy anglo-saxon phrase in response.
Yes, some people do and it's a real red button issue for me. I actually ended a friendship because when I was recovering memories of the sexual abuse, I truly risked being vulnerable to share with a very dear friend what had happened to me and what it was like trying to heal from it. We share our faith and she is very devout, and I have no doubt that she meant what she said in the best way possible, but her response was "Isn't Christ enough, why do you have to go back?" It felt like she hadn't heard a word I said.
Ironically enough, she had some issues in her past that badly needed to be faced and that she was using her faith to avoid looking at.
So here's my take, the people who most loudly proclaim that therapy is a crutch or self-indulgent? They are more often than not, protecting themselves from facing their own pain and issues. I think on some deep level they know how scared they are, and so they devalue therapy so that they can feel justified in not having any.
I had a very healing moment once when a very old dear friend (we met at 14 as Freshman in High School; sorry don't know how to translate that into British.
) told me that I was stronger than her because I had the courage to go and face my issues and she didn't. I was shocked because I had always seen her as stronger than me and more well adjusted. Therapy is not for wusses. Going in to face and understand yourself and in the case of trauma or neglect, processing that pain is a demanding, arduous task that calls for a lot of courage to face. So to people who say that therapy is self-endulging, I give a short pithy anglo-saxon phrase in response.
It's a red button issue for me also. I'm pretty lucky that I don't encounter that attitude very much, probably because I've filtered out most of the idiots over the years and surround myself with people who at least have the good sense to keep quiet around me if they don't think therapy is useful.
I think that our collective national identity as a nation of survivors, with the good old wartime 'soldier on' mentality, keep a stiff upper lip, smile even when you're crying inside attitude that is still prevalent actually kind of gives legitimacy to the whole 'self-indulgence' argument and keeps it alive. Although it's changing, I do think the idea that we should all pull ourselves together and that having needs and feelings is somehow just not good form is quite dominant still even now. As a society we reward 'keeping it in' and label people who don't as whiners who don't know how good they have it. Drives me batshit crazy.
Er, yeah. I'll get off my soapbox shall I?
I think that our collective national identity as a nation of survivors, with the good old wartime 'soldier on' mentality, keep a stiff upper lip, smile even when you're crying inside attitude that is still prevalent actually kind of gives legitimacy to the whole 'self-indulgence' argument and keeps it alive. Although it's changing, I do think the idea that we should all pull ourselves together and that having needs and feelings is somehow just not good form is quite dominant still even now. As a society we reward 'keeping it in' and label people who don't as whiners who don't know how good they have it. Drives me batshit crazy.
Er, yeah. I'll get off my soapbox shall I?
AG,
I thought your post was insightful as always and agree with most everything you said. This part caught my attention. . .
Sometimes I feel like most everyone I know is using their faith to avoid things! I grew up in a very religious subculture, I suppose what a lot of people would refer to as fundamentalist. Actually, I was often told by leaders in my church and others that psychology was "of the devil" because it sought to cure people "apart from God". I guess I've come a long way, however you look at it!
Now I frequently find myself wondering how one tells the difference (I mean within oneself) between genuine faith and "faith"-as-avoidance. I wondered if you had any thoughts or insights on this? If it's derailing the thread too much maybe we could take the topic elsewhere.
I thought your post was insightful as always and agree with most everything you said. This part caught my attention. . .
quote:We share our faith and she is very devout, and I have no doubt that she meant what she said in the best way possible, but her response was "Isn't Christ enough, why do you have to go back?" It felt like she hadn't heard a word I said.
Ironically enough, she had some issues in her past that badly needed to be faced and that she was using her faith to avoid looking at.
Sometimes I feel like most everyone I know is using their faith to avoid things! I grew up in a very religious subculture, I suppose what a lot of people would refer to as fundamentalist. Actually, I was often told by leaders in my church and others that psychology was "of the devil" because it sought to cure people "apart from God". I guess I've come a long way, however you look at it!
Now I frequently find myself wondering how one tells the difference (I mean within oneself) between genuine faith and "faith"-as-avoidance. I wondered if you had any thoughts or insights on this? If it's derailing the thread too much maybe we could take the topic elsewhere.
I believe it about me seeing a therapist. I would not say it about anyone else.
OMG Monte, i have been consumed lately with thoughts that, although we don't discuss these thoughts as such, that T is teaching me more about Christianity than my folks ever have (he is not yet privy to me having these thoughts). but, i do believe that he has taught me more about Christ and that way of living life than my parents ever hoped to. isn't that something? after living by my parents understanding of Christianity for 50+ years, my T comes in and REALLY shows me what Christ was all about? after only 3 years? i don't mean to stomp over anybody's faith or lack thereof, i'm speaking for myself, so please don't be offended. i'm being shown a whole different world, and to me it is amazing and hopeful and beautiful. all because of T. bless his heart, he is patient and wise. and, Monte, to hold that pain up and examine it and resolve it ... to me, anyway, is to deal with the shame that i have been taught to hide and hold under wraps and say "NO, this is WRONG". the right thing is to say "I'm human, and i'm okay. and i've learned some good lessons and i'll move on and be stronger". to move beyond my shame and live a full life. i'm a work in progress.
Draggers, sorry for the highjack
(((MONTE)))
It has been my experience that the stuff I have to wade through is VERY LARGE and VERY PAINFUL. I can only handle so much at any one given time. Every few months, I seem to chew off another piece of it and it gets smaller. Just a little but smaller. As I begin to really trust that he's not going to abandon me, I can chew off a little bit more. The painbody (Eckhardt Tolle) has gotten noticeably smaller.
It seems to me, from my vantage point, that you really want to heal and that in your heart of hearts you would love to be a high functioning person with great self-esteem and be done with and free of therapy FOREVER. However, you need the close, intense relationship in order to work through the pain. Please don't beat your child up. It's hard to understand how to STOP seeking validation of your worth from people when you've done it your whole life and know no other way.
I think that I'm starting to get frustrated (finally) by T's inability to meet certain needs and that, in itself, is having the effect of me trying to validate myself since I just can't, as hard as I try, get into T's head. But I have the stability and love of the relationship within which to do it and T seems like the same old T he always has been. He makes me feel important to him. The pain that he can't be all those things has lessened to a great extent because each time I go through something, I work through another piece of it.
At the end of the day, who is judging you for having those childlike needs? Does it really matter? When we leave this earth, is anyone really going to care that we were dependent upon our therapists for a longish period of time?
Oh, I hope I didn't sound to preachy.
(((MONTE)))
quote:The childlike emotions I grapple with have me viewing my relationship with/attachment to T as the end answer
It has been my experience that the stuff I have to wade through is VERY LARGE and VERY PAINFUL. I can only handle so much at any one given time. Every few months, I seem to chew off another piece of it and it gets smaller. Just a little but smaller. As I begin to really trust that he's not going to abandon me, I can chew off a little bit more. The painbody (Eckhardt Tolle) has gotten noticeably smaller.
It seems to me, from my vantage point, that you really want to heal and that in your heart of hearts you would love to be a high functioning person with great self-esteem and be done with and free of therapy FOREVER. However, you need the close, intense relationship in order to work through the pain. Please don't beat your child up. It's hard to understand how to STOP seeking validation of your worth from people when you've done it your whole life and know no other way.
I think that I'm starting to get frustrated (finally) by T's inability to meet certain needs and that, in itself, is having the effect of me trying to validate myself since I just can't, as hard as I try, get into T's head. But I have the stability and love of the relationship within which to do it and T seems like the same old T he always has been. He makes me feel important to him. The pain that he can't be all those things has lessened to a great extent because each time I go through something, I work through another piece of it.
At the end of the day, who is judging you for having those childlike needs? Does it really matter? When we leave this earth, is anyone really going to care that we were dependent upon our therapists for a longish period of time?
Oh, I hope I didn't sound to preachy.
quote:his aim being to allow me just enough attachment to keep me engaged, but never to call the attachment the cure. Rather it is a resting place and a stepping stone to a greater and more permanent (ie, eternal) attachment. The conflict comes when I cling and want (so desperately) to call it home and not seek further growth.
amen that, sister!
quote:I hate this process most of the time. The childlike emotions I grapple with have me viewing my relationship with/attachment to T as the end answer and I get very upset and angry when he does not 'complete' things as I would like. But he sees our relationship as a means to an end...he is the sign post, not the destination. In my head I know he is showing a love far greater than the love I want from him, but my heart (emotional self) struggles with a developmental delay which has it seeking only the warm, fuzzy stuff and resisting the hard work of growth. But every so often I can step back and see something quite beautiful unfolding and I feel deep gratitude...and hope. Until the inner child wakes up from her nap and starts demanding again. Sigh
and amen that, too!
i am one that really struggles with the T relationship. i like (love? ouch!) my T alot, but i find i continually hold him at a distance because i don't want him moving in too close, because i know that ultimately this relationship is designed to end (as all relationships are!). but, this relationship is different because you KNOW there is a limited time with them (even if it is for years), but with any other relationship you think you have forever. of course, that's not true, but you don't know it or think much about it. so, for me anyway, much of my constipation comes from knowing this has to end, so i have to hold him at arms length and not let him in because this has to end whether i like it or not. very contrary to what therapy can be about, but that's where i'm at. hold him at bay so i won't get hurt. therapy is hard 
(((DRAGGERS)))
Sorry for the hijack. I used to feel ashamed about needing therapy but don't anymore. The more I seek healing from different sources, the more I find lots of really interesting and smart people whom I admire. I am more comfortable around those types of people now that the more narrowed minded types who don't believe in therapy. So much of it is about the brain and if they don't believe in therapy, they don't know anything or care anything about the brain and I don't want to waste my time with them. It's like when people believed the earth was flat and Copernicus began to believe it was round.
I thought this was kind of interesting:
Draggers, if you don't have access to workshops, etc., follow dr. dan siegel on twitter. Plug into those who study the brain. Soon, those naysayers won't mean anything to you anymore because you will be so uplifted by dr. dan sielge and people like him. He's an amazing person.
Sorry for the hijack.
I used to feel ashamed about needing therapy but don't anymore. The more I seek healing from different sources, the more I find lots of really interesting and smart people whom I admire. I am more comfortable around those types of people now that the more narrowed minded types who don't believe in therapy. So much of it is about the brain and if they don't believe in therapy, they don't know anything or care anything about the brain and I don't want to waste my time with them. It's like when people believed the earth was flat and Copernicus began to believe it was round. I thought this was kind of interesting:
quote:Mathematics and deep philosophical thinking didn’t come easily to most people, so Pythagoras and Plato didn’t have the majority of people trusting their hard facts since it was simpler and safer to accept what was deemed the truth by the church. For most people, it would take a physical form of proof to change their beliefs.
Draggers, if you don't have access to workshops, etc., follow dr. dan siegel on twitter. Plug into those who study the brain. Soon, those naysayers won't mean anything to you anymore because you will be so uplifted by dr. dan sielge and people like him. He's an amazing person.