AG,

I think your concern is valid. I am sure in some cases that it can be "contagious", but for the most part I don't think that is the case.

I do know that on other forums I've posted on that we could mention SI or SH urges, but not specifics (as you mentioned). This is fine with me as someone who sometimes struggles with SI or SH. I don't typically find the need to talk about the method as much as the urges and healthy ways around them.

Others here may feel differently, but that is where I stand on the topic.

DF,

Yes, you are right in my opinion. I think there is a difference between saying I went and got a ___ ___ and ____ ____ then to say that I have an urge to cut. To me, saying I want to cut isn't really specifics, but I guess that is something we need clarification on.

DF, I think you're making valid points. Please be assured that this topic was NOT about accusing anyone of doing anything wrong, I don't think anyone has. And these are also not marching orders or strict guidelines. The reason I asked for comments is because I wanted to open a discussion about what the guidelines should be. It's actually harder for me to know where to place them since as I mentioned in my original post, this is not one of my struggles. Hopefully, we'll be able to come to some kind of agreement that will help everyone feel safe.

quote:

As someone who is probably one of the nameless at fault here...

DF It's hard to one of the "nameless at fault" when I said really clearly that no one did anything wrong.

AG

Hi AG, thank you for bringing this up. I too have been thinking about this lately. I have debated whether or not to reply here though, of meny reasons... I am confused about the whole SH-thing, what action/harm is actually correctly identified as SH? -and I dont even know if i want/can/will identify with sh-.Yet, i post here now, because i know i have made thread which clearly brings this up, and i know i have also descibed more or less some details regard to it, that i maybe shouldnt have done- because of the triggering effect of it. I do know for myself, that also reading about it here on forum itself is triggering, so i do agree with you when saying that this in a way is contagious. On the other hand- everything posted here on forum - all kinds of issues- can have that effect, and i belive all members here are very aware of that "risk" when reading here and posting. I agree that not sharing all the details regard to SH- is a good guide when posting about it. Not sure if i have understood the balance suggested here though...? I am certaintly not an expert at all about this either, only just "discovered" that this problem actually is highly common. I hadnt heard about "sh" before i came here..
i wanted to weight in with my experience that reading about sh- can have a very strong contagious effect, it did had that for me. But again: I am aware of that risk when being here on forum reading in general, and do not concider it as a very big problem for me.
Its very nice that you brought this up and showing this concern. I do indeed have a lot of question about sh, and it would be good to have a safe place talking about it. For me, its not an option to become member of another forum place, so this forum is the only place i would/can learn more about this, and feel safe enough writing about it. ugh..sorry if this became a very messy poster, - i guess that reflects my very confused mind about this all.
Thanks again AG. And thank you also for allowing us to PM you if having furhter questions.

All the best,

I guess I’ll respond to this since I was one of the people talking about SI.

Personally I won’t get triggered by any SI talk, but my votes for having this forum be an open place for discussing any feelings around SI, just not the act itself. Also, trigger warnings should be included before any talk about SI.

Hiya,

Warm thoughts to all who struggle with this. It isn't easy.

Thank you, AG, for bringing this up. I have been feeling concerned about this lately, because it's coming up a lot. I think having some guidelines around this helps to make it safer to talk about, and that is important both for those who need to discuss it and those who are reading.

I think there is sometimes a kind of 'contagious' effect with this behaviour, and I think we need to do what we can to be aware about it, but I also want to be very clear that this is *not* a case of people 'infecting' others with their pain or 'badness'. Everyone has their own pain, and everyone struggles for what to do with it. You can't give me your pain any more than I can give you mine.

Furthermore, we are each responsible for our own behaviour. No one here can make another harm themselves. It's just not what happens. AND furtherfurthermore, no one on this board invented self-harm. It is something that is in our culture in many places. No one has *that* responsibility.

But I think we would do well to recognise that the imagery around this can be vivid and can stay in the imagination. In this sense the imagery should perhaps be, in a place like this, a kind of 'controlled substance'. So not discussing the specifics seems like a good safety guard to get in place, to me.

And I would suggest that when we write about this we keep being honest and self-aware and creative in our search for other ways to express our feelings. I see this honesty, self-awareness and creativity *all the time* here. I also see people sharing really constructive stuff about the realities of this behaviour (its problematic effects) and how to get deal with the urges. I see this as wonderfully constructive.

I hope we can keep all the stuff that is good in how this is already being dealt with, and work on the safety-guards too. And I hope we can keep the conversation open about all the implications here.

Jones

Dear ((everyone))
I have this gut feeling that AGs thread might have been misinterpreted!! She would be SO upset if anyone felt/thought they had done the wrong thing!! I very much understand SI/SH and no-one should feel guilty about having given directions/instructions or such SO PLEASE DON'T TAKE ON BOARD WHAT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU We are such bloody experts in beating ourselves up for no good reason!!!
Lots of love to you all
Morgs

I wrote this response, posted it, then unposted it...

I will come back to it later and maybe repost it.

(yeah, I have issues - with confidence in myself too! ugh. sorry to be so nutty even just about posting!)

I do want to say

AG - thanks for bringing this up
Morgs - wonderful point, we are all quite skilled at beating overselve sup over nothing.
Frog - I'm glad you posted and you asked good questions
DF - I don't think you need to or should delete any of your posts! I think they are all ok, even the one your alter posted - it's ok. I hope you leave it up...

and everyone - good discussion. just having an open forum to talk about this is really good. It is a very common problem, and ever increasing, and it's good we are talking about it and even talking about how to talk about it. And I love the heart and desire by everyone to take responsibility for ourselves (and learn to take only responsibility for only our own selves) and not trigger others and to be a safe places to talk about this and all kinds of battles and tough things we face in life...

and I will re-read my possible post tomorrow and maybe add it (with perhaps an advance apology for if it ends up confusing anyone.)

quote:

i would like to say that no one talking about SI here has ever made me want to go out and do it...i find that concept quite interesting that that could be the case and wonder why that would be?

Hey Draggers - not going there coz my feeling is one is either inclined or not!! Seriously though it is an interesting issue that 'in the wider world' is swept under the carpet and I think it's okay to deal with here in the community 'but without details'. Reason - we are part of a very wide, caring but ultimately 'faceless' community and while most of us are quite open and 'members' who do talk/share/post openly, there are also a great many in lurkdom (like I used to be) who may be more vulnerable than us (if possible)
Anyhow my dear community friends, I just gotta go to bed now
Lots of love to you all
Morgs

quote:

And I love the heart and desire by everyone to take responsibility for ourselves (and learn to take only responsibility for only our own selves) and not trigger others and to be a safe places to talk about this and all kinds of battles and tough things we face in life...

Sorry JD, I meant to acknowledge your comment - well said - this is really a caring community
Morgs

Oh my dear Draggers
Perhaps i was too tired to post anything coz i seem to be putting things the wrong way i'm not saying another thing tonight (he he) other than we all try to be sensitive to everyone's needs and thirst for knowledge about ourselves and others and we get that from the sharing of our experiences, which is great

quote:

ohhhhh i dunno what i am trying to say here..sorry

Me either lady and i hope most sincerely that i haven't upset you or anyone else! Gotta go SOOO tired.
(((hugs 4 draggers))) and anyone else who needs a hug ((()))
Morgs

I agree with Mac`s suggetion too:

quote:

my votes for having this forum be an open place for discussing any feelings around SI, just not the act itself. Also, trigger warnings should be included before any talk about SI

quote:

Then we will also respect the lurkers here reading, that might be in a vulnarable place. It kind of boils down to normal sense of respecful awarness and sensitivity when posting about sh, i think. Looks like (from the posters i read here now) that this concerned is something we all share and with good intentions. Maybe its just the balance between wiriting "too much" and "too little" that we are trying to figure out..

..if someone have other ideas, or disagree with this "rule"/quote, it would be nice to hear them too.

quote:

i would love to hear from anyone on the subject of self injury and how they feel watching another members of their family doing such things....

Dear Draggers,

I think this is important too. But from my point of view very, very difficult to write about.

My experience has been that it's the same as if someone else had caused those violent injuries to your loved one. It's pretty much all the same feelings, if you can imagine that.

I'm sorry Draggers, I know you have had such a bad experience lately, and I want to also say that through proper processing we can and do heal from these things, just as we would if someone else had done the injury. And then they become things we have survived, part of our strength.

And I want to say, AG, that I'm really sorry you experienced this with your daughter, it's very hard. I am glad she got through it with your loving help.

xxJ

Hi all,

Well, to be completely honest, I was definitely one of the ones that freaked out when I read this thread. It was the first time I'd ever chosen to post about it, so I was terribly afraid I'd done something wrong. I've been very kindly reassured that I haven't, though I do want to suck it up and make a post here (instead of hiding!) to ask the rest of you as well. I won't hesitate to change or delete something if I need to.

I think it is really great that this is being clarified here as it is a very sensitive subject, but not one that should be avoided completely.

Dear Draggers,

It's ok, it's fine of course that you deleted your post. I think there's just some anxiety flying around here because it's hard to be sure of the tone of things when we can only see words. Deep slow exhale for everyone!

Thank you for letting us in with that post - I felt very close to you to be able to read that, and I'm grateful for that. And also understand why you are deleting it, and think that's fine too.

I have to go, but Kash, I don't know of anything you need to change or delete, and thanks to all for your thoughts on this.

xxxJ

sorry draggers...I wasn't finding the right words...I'm sorry.

BB

hugs back, draggers... (((((draggers))))

Hi All,
Thank you all for discussing this and being so open about what's going on. I knew this would be a tough subject to discuss so I really appreciate everyone being so open. My apologies again for the lousy timing of starting this, then disappearing for two days. Really wasn't thinking on that one.

I want to answer a few questions and then do a summation if that's ok with everyone? instead of doing a post by post response.

First, I want to say again, that this thread was not generated nor directed because of just one person's post. REALLY! It was just that it was coming up alot from many different people and knowing that there is a "contagious" element was what concerned me. So honestly, as much as I love all your hyper-developed senses of responsibility, this really isn't about any one person.

And draggers, heard you loud and clear, that you just wanted to apologize in case your post bothered someone. I never thought you were upset with me, and the love and respect goes both ways. And just for the record, I really appreciated you being so open. As difficult as it could be to hear what you were going through, it also made it easier to know. And I WANT you to be able to speak of it. How you were treated was wrong in so many ways and you deserve to hear that over and over again.
And I want to respond to your question about how it felt to have someone I love SI, but with a disclaimer first. My feelings are just that, mine, and therefore my responsibility. My concern in talking about the effect of the behavior on me when it was my daughter SIing is that it pulls the focus from where it belongs, on my daughter and her pain and her struggle to deal with it and onto me and my feelings. The last thing a person needs to add to their burdens is a mass of guilt about what they're doing to other people. They need to learn to take care of themselves and I'm not sure if that is helped by focusing on other people. At the same time Draggers I do understand how knowing that your actions affect other people can provide important motivation to avoid a behavior. I struggled at times during my healing with suicidal ideation (a few times needing to make an emergency call to my sister and/or both my therapists) and I'd be lying not to say that at times, the realization of what I would do to the people I left behind, especially my children and my husband, did provide me with very powerful reasons for not acting on those feelings.

It was heartbreaking for me when I found out. I hated seeing my daughter being hurt that way and it was even harder knowing she was doing it to herself. I felt terribly guilty because it felt like I had failed her in some deep way, that she had to turn to SI to feel better or express herself (actually she was pretty angry that we had been oblivious for a while). And it was a sickening feeling to know she was in such pain for so long (it had been going on for around a year) and we were unaware. But our concern was that she get the help she needed to deal with the behavior and find other ways to deal with her feelings. I ended up doing alot of research and reading and we found her a good therapist. She went for around a year. More importantly, we didn't make her deal with any of our feelings. My husband and I took our guilt and fears to our therapist to deal with there so that we could only show our daughter love and support.

And Jones, thank you for your sympathy, but it's all good. Children are a like lot marriage, you don't really know what you're getting into, you just take what comes as it comes. And I am blessed with really wonderful children. And I'm glad to say that the SI is really under control for my daughter at this point. She was undergoing some pretty serious stress at the time about situations that have since been dealt with.

(((Kashley))) I'm glad you got reassurance that you weren't doing anything wrong, since you weren't.

OK so to sum up what I see as a consensus on the issue, everyone is very clear that it should be subject we are free to discuss (I VERY MUCH agree). I think, SI, like suicide, is something that very much benefits by being brought into the light of day. I also think Mac made an excellent suggestion that we provide trigger warnings. This seems like a very healthy boundary to me that the person writing about it provides the information that someone else needs to take care of themselves. And that while we really encourage talking about the feelings surrounding it, we will refrain from speaking of the actual acts, especially in detail.

Thank you all, I know that it can be really threatening to talk about this, and I appreciate everyone being so open.

AG

quote:

My concern in talking about the effect of the behavior on me when it was my daughter SIing is that it pulls the focus from where it belongs, on my daughter and her pain and her struggle to deal with it and onto me and my feelings. The last thing a person needs to add to their burdens is a mass of guilt about what they're doing to other people. They need to learn to take care of themselves and I'm not sure if that is helped by focusing on other people. At the same time Draggers I do understand how knowing that your actions affect other people can provide important motivation to avoid a behavior. I struggled at times during my healing with suicidal ideation (a few times needing to make an emergency call to my sister and/or both my therapists) and I'd be lying not to say that at times, the realization of what I would do to the people I left behind, especially my children and my husband, did provide me with very powerful reasons for not acting on those feelings.

Dear AG - thank you SO much for putting words to elements of this that I was really struggling with. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

xxxJ